The Great Fairy Fountain Research Thread

[KayLo!]

Updated the OP while I was adding ledge stuff.

- Minor formatting changes.
- Added taunt frames.
- Finished ledge frames.
- Added note to jump squat frames.
- Minor fix to Nayru's Momentum Cancel (b-reversal instructions).

I see. Could you then analyze for how many frames Zelda is vulnerable in the second case? I.e. the time between when the IF from ledgejump end and until IF from Nayru's love start? Preferably for both when activating Nayru's love causes her to instantly land on stage and when it causes her to drop down.

In case you don't understand what the hell I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLQB8Et_890#t=5m46s

I had already assumed this before, but I confirmed via frame advance that Zelda's ledge jump IFs end right before the move's FAF. (Like MrEh said, that's how it is for most -- maybe all -- ledge jumps.) By the time you can Nayru's, Zelda's invincibility from the ledge jump is gone..... so the vulnerability is the same as doing a regular Nayru's (4 frames before NL's IFs kick in).

Also, @that vid: You may want to re-edit it a bit as far as the explanation goes. It seems like you're mixing up turnaround b, b-reversal, and wavebouncing without knowing the difference between the three. I can explain them to you if you'd like!

Most ledge hops jumps have IASA frames immediately after the invincibility wears off. However, there are some exceptions, and some character's IASA takes 1 or 2 more frames to kick in. We don't have the numbers for Zelda, so we can't really say for certain. However, we can estimate.

Naryu's invincibility kicks in on frame 5, so there's a 4 frame window where you can be hit during startup. We can't be sure if Zelda's ledgehop has a delay between the invincibility and the IASA frames though, so we can just say that there might be a 1 or 2 frame window to be safe.

So in the end, there's something like a 5-6 frame window of vulnerability. Not exactly safe, and very punishable.

Awww ****, lemme find out MrEh knows his frame data. =D But yeah, Zelda follows the normal rule of having IFs throughout her entire ledge jump, ending as soon as its FAF/IASA/whatever you want to call it.

Also before I forget Kay I was gonna bring up that din's fire post where you listed the shield stun frames but I couldn't find it =( But from what I remember Din's has 10-16 shieldstun frames (10 for shortburst, 16 for maxburst) so that can be listed under the shieldstun section for that move.

I'm redoing shield stun and stuff from scratch. Those numbers are probably right, but since I have a much better understanding of frame data now, I want to do everything over and make sure it's 100% correct.

Also, this applies to every character, but I was messing around with things and when you run and turn around, let go of the d-stick and tap the c-stick in the opposite diection. You do this really weird slide =/ Zelda's one is laggy and long, but I've seen a video where someone's doing an Fsmash slide from this. I wonder if it's possible to vary the sliding distance but I don't even know how to do it =?

I'm confused. D-stick = control stick?

I think I've seen this before, but I've never done it with Zelda. I'll look into it..... but one of the problems with frame advance is that the game doesn't register c-stick inputs while you're in debug pause. x.x So if it requires the c-stick, I won't be able to test it frame-by-frame.

I believe that was in the OP of sexy poses thread, which doesn't exist in the same form anymore.

Luckily, the info was preserved:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8000997&postcount=136
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8001053&postcount=137
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8001098&postcount=138

Through the power of mod magic, I still have my original post from that thread (although it's now the second post)..... so I can see all my edits and previous OPs. Thanks though!

Consecutive Dins fire.
Use Dins above water and the casting animations cancels out, like when she gets hit and the fire ball keeps flying.

Short hop, dins fire, aim it in an arch so it hits the ground where your opponent is (or if they're far enough just let it go straight) and repeat.

Meh. The game forces a delay before you can jump out of the water after landing in it, so this really isn't that useful at all. Landing back in the water does cancel Din's lag, but you still end up having to wait almost as long as usual before you can jump + Din's again.

 

[Fuujin]

Meh. The game forces a delay before you can jump out of the water after landing in it, so this really isn't that useful at all. Landing back in the water does cancel Din's lag, but you still end up having to wait almost as long as usual before you can jump + Din's again.

You can send out about two Din's fires about twice as fast as normal with it.
The amount of time she spends landing in the water is less than the regular din's cool down if you do it right.

 

[KayLo!]

Explain "doing it right" then, Fuu, because the delay definitely didn't allow me to send out fireballs twice as fast as usual. Maybe there's some trick I'm missing.

@Kataefi: I figured out what you were referring to, but the sliding fsmash thing doesn't work for Zelda -- that is, she doesn't get a real slide from it. Her pivot animation doesn't give her the right momentum.

I also tried pivot > jump canceling usmash with her after seeing the amaaaazing slide Squirtle gets out of it, but it must be weird pivot mechanics that allow him and a few other characters to slide. Zelda don't got it.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Also, @that vid: You may want to re-edit it a bit as far as the explanation goes. It seems like you're mixing up turnaround b, b-reversal, and wavebouncing without knowing the difference between the three. I can explain them to you if you'd like!

Thanks but there's no need, I read the thread about Smash Lab's official terms some time ago. I've just been lazy and haven't kept my videos up to date.

But speaking about terms, shouldn't Farore's wind be included in the moves that allow airwalk? As far as I see, grounded teleport cancel fits the definition:

Airwalk [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have traits or moves that allow them to briefly go offstage, then drift back. The most common traits that allow this are floatiness and aerial mobility. When performed through a move, the move is usually cancelled when the character crosses the ledge. Not to be confused with Lucario's Altered Momentum DownAir, whose popular name is also "the Airwalk".

 

[KuroganeHammer]

There was talk of a Wario infinite before, so Zelda has one now?

Cool, I’ll have to work on it.

Grab release infinite > Guaranteed (So long as you don’t stuff it uuuuup... Like I do, anyway) LK.

So, are you certain Wario can’t use the Motorbike to get out of it?

In anycase, great work guys! Thanks for all this useful info. I actually had no idea that you could drop down and keep your invincibility frames.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Thanks but there's no need, I read the thread about Smash Lab's official terms some time ago. I've just been lazy and haven't kept my videos up to date.

But speaking about terms, shouldn't Farore's wind be included in the moves that allow airwalk? As far as I see, grounded teleport cancel fits the definition:

No, because when they air walk they don't use specials. If you want I can link you to a vid of air walking so that you can see it and better understand the AT.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

No, because when they air walk they don't use specials. If you want I can link you to a vid of air walking so that you can see it and better understand the AT.

List of airwalk-combatible moves:

Key-

[R]: Reversed; reverse momentum special
[AC]: Aftercanceled; indicates that a move is canceled either because of landing back onstage, and putting you in your landing lag animation, or in the case of Shiek's needle charge, you cancel it as soon as you airwalk back by pressing your shield button
[CASAD]: Canceled as soon as drift; the special is completelly canceled, i.e. puts you in your idle falling animation, and enables you to drift back onstage
[D]: Drift; in the case of moves, drift means when one goes offstage facing one direction, then directs their way back to the stage while in the move in a way that they are left facing the same direction; in the case of Wario, it indicates that one can simply tap off the ldge then drift back with aerial mobility
[DD]: Dash Dance; only applies to the Ice Climbers; this means that because of dashdancing near the edge, the secondary Climber falls off but airwalks back to rejoin the primary Climber
[collapse=list of compatible characters/moves]Mario: [R]Fireball, [AC]Cape
Luigi: [R]Fireball, [R]Tornado
Donkey Kong: [R]Headbutt, [D]Kong Spin
Yoshi: [R]Egg Lay, [R]Egg Throw
R.O.B.: [R]Laser, [R]Robocopter, [R]Gyro Charge/Shot, [D]DownAir
Snake: [R]Grenade, [R]Nikita, [R]C4, [AC]C4
Kirby: [D]/[AC]Hammer
Lucas: [R]PK Freeze, [AC]PK Fire
Ness: [R]PK Flash, [CASAD]PK Fire, [AC]PK Fire
Mr. Game and Watch: [R]Chef, [R]Judge
Wario: [D]Aerial Mobility, [D]/[AC]ForwardAir, [D]/[AC]BackwardAir, [D]/[AC]UpAir
Pit: [D]Wings of Icarus, [R]Angel Ring, [R]Arrow, [R]Shield
Ice Climbers: [DD]Secondary Climber, [R]Squall Hammer, [R]Blizzard, [CASAD]Ice Block
Pikachu: [R]Thunder
King DDD: [R]Minion Throw
Samus: [CASAD]Missile
Jigglypuff: [R]Pound
Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Gale Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Toon Link: [R]Arrow, [R]Boomerang, [CASAD]Spin Attack Charge
Lucario: [R] Force Palm, [R]Aura Sphere Charge, [R]Aura Sphere Shot
Wolf: [R]Laser
Zelda: [R]Nayru's Love, [R]Din's Fire
Shiek: [R]Needle Charge, [AC]Needle Charge, [R]Needle Shot
Marth: [R]Shield Breaker
Ivysaur: [R]Razor Leaf
Ike: [R]Quickdraw
Zero Suit Samus: [R]Stunner, [R]Vertical Whip
Olimar: [R]Pikmin Toss, [R]Whistle
[/collapse]
Characters not listed have no airwalks

I see quite a lot of specials there...

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

List of airwalk-combatible moves:


I see quite a lot of specials there...

the specials are just being B-reversed. there's a difference......

 

[Half-Split Soul]

What happens in grounded teleport cancel:

1. Zelda's uses FW and appears near the ledge
2. The ending part of FW gets completely canceled and Zelda enters her idle falling animation
3. Zelda drifts back onstage

How CASAD Airwalk is defined:

[CASAD]: Canceled as soon as drift; the special is completelly canceled, i.e. puts you in your idle falling animation, and enables you to drift back onstage

See the similarities?

the specials are just being B-reversed. there's a difference......

Here's how Airwalking is performed with a special::

-Through a move: Run, then in the move's specific window, input the move so that you conserve momentum and slide off the ledge, then either drift back, or reverse your momentum to get back.

I think you should read the Smash Lab's thread about terms and turnaround specials too, since this is all explained there.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

What happens in grounded teleport cancel:

1. Zelda's uses FW and appears near the ledge
2. The ending part of FW gets completely canceled and Zelda enters her idle falling animation
3. Zelda drifts back onstage

How CASAD Airwalk is defined:See the similarities?


Here's how Airwalking is performed with a special::


I think you should read the Smash Lab's thread about terms and turnaround specials too, since this is all explained there.

dude they're seriously just b reversing the specials. airwalking =/= drift. You also don't need to do an attack to airwalk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-gga4DL1pE

I really don't care for any terms some people put to try and make **** more complicated than what is it. They're just b reversing the specials.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I have a feeling this isn't going anywhere, but...

I really don't care for any terms some people put to try and make **** more complicated than what is it. They're just b reversing the specials.

In this case the "some people" you're referring to happens to be RocketPSIence, the leader of smash lab. You know, the part of SWF responsible for (among other things) giving the official definitions for terms and creating the universal names for ATs.

dude they're seriously just b reversing the specials. airwalking =/= drift. You also don't need to do an attack to airwalk.

Wario's Airwalk using his aerial momentum is one way to perform the act. B-reversing a special is another. However, besides these there are also more ways to get the same result. It doesn't matter how the process itself goes: as long as you get the same result (going offstage and getting back on stage directly into the standing position) it is called Airwalking.

Which brings me back to my original guestion of why Zelda's grounded ledgewarp isn't there while it should be.

 

[KayLo!]

HSS, I've never looked into Airwalking since it didn't interest me at first glance, but I can do a bit of Zelda-specific testing on it if you'd like.

Also, there's a slight error in the instructions for b-reversals, which was corrected in the Lab but never in the public thread: you have to have the reverse direction held on the fourth frame of the special, not within the first three frames. Whether you hold it over the span of a few frames or input it frame perfectly, as long as the opposite direction is being held on the fourth frame, you'll b-reversal.

There was talk of a Wario infinite before, so Zelda has one now?

Cool, I’ll have to work on it.

Grab release infinite > Guaranteed (So long as you don’t stuff it uuuuup... Like I do, anyway) LK.

So, are you certain Wario can’t use the Motorbike to get out of it?

In anycase, great work guys! Thanks for all this useful info. I actually had no idea that you could drop down and keep your invincibility frames.

If I say it's guaranteed, it's guaran-****ing-teed.

Jkjk, but no, he can't do anything to escape if you're doing it right. If there's a platform in the way, though, he can land and shield..... which is why you probably won't find much use for this unless you're on FD or something.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have a feeling this isn't going anywhere, but...


In this case the "some people" you're referring to happens to be RocketPSIence, the leader of smash lab. You know, the part of SWF responsible for (among other things) giving the official definitions for terms and creating the universal names for ATs.



Wario's Airwalk using his aerial momentum is one way to perform the act. B-reversing a special is another. However, besides these there are also more ways to get the same result. It doesn't matter how the process itself goes: as long as you get the same result (going offstage and getting back on stage directly into the standing position) it is called Airwalking.

Which brings me back to my original guestion of why Zelda's grounded ledgewarp isn't there while it should be.

I don't care how much you shine it or polish it sh*t is sh*t.


To be more serious if I b reverse anywhere else on the stage I'm B reversing but if I walk of the stage and b reversed it's air walking...yeah I'll refer to what I said earlier in this post.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Sweetspot D-air KO percents on FD on grounded opponents:

Kills Jiggs at 107%
Kills Mario at 131%
Kills DDD at 156%

Of course it never happens in regular Brawl since you can only land that hitbox on aerial opponents, but this should give you a better idea as to how effectively this spike KOs people who meteor cancel.

 

[Fuujin]

Sweetspot D-air KO percents on FD on grounded opponents:

Kills Jiggs at 107%
Kills Mario at 131%
Kills DDD at 156%

Of course it never happens in regular Brawl since you can only land that hitbox on aerial opponents, but this should give you a better idea as to how effectively this spike KOs people who meteor cancel.

If only.
That why I played balanced brawl, until they decided to completely change Zelda's play style.
You practically have to relearn everything about her.

Anyways about the Din's fire in the water, I'm not sure why you shouldn't be able to get it after a few tries.
Go to the second part of the swamp in SSE,
It has springs and water so you can practice it on both.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Sweetspot D-air KO percents on FD on grounded opponents:

Kills Jiggs at 107%
Kills Mario at 131%
Kills DDD at 156%

Of course it never happens in regular Brawl since you can only land that hitbox on aerial opponents, but this should give you a better idea as to how effectively this spike KOs people who meteor cancel.

Thanks for this it's so helpful. You da bess man. You just improved Zelda's metagame ten fold. What would I have done with out this information ?

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Thanks for this it's so helpful. You da bess man. You just improved Zelda's metagame ten fold. What would I have done with out this information ?

Thanks for this it's so helpful. You da bess man. You just improved Zelda's metagame ten fold. What would I have done without that post?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Thanks for this it's so helpful. You da bess man. You just improved Zelda's metagame ten fold. What would I have done without that post?

Prob beat off? IDK mangz.

 

[Fuujin]

Lol you guys are meaner than me.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Lol you guys are meaner than me.

I'm da nicest guy you'd meet.

 

[Kataefi]

Aiiight back on topic please you know the drill. Gonna be stricter with this thread so no more offtopic troll stuffs as of this post onward.

How do people deal with Samus' Zair by any chance?

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Aiiight back on topic please you know the drill. Gonna be stricter with this thread so no more offtopic troll stuffs as of this post onward.

How do people deal with Samus' Zair by any chance?

I press L you can try pressing R but my R is set to attack so I can dacus easier.

 

[MrEh]

How do people deal with Samus' Zair by any chance?

You shield it. It's a dumb answer, but it's the truth. There's no real way around it except to shield and try to approach. (which is hard because...it's Zelda)

 

[GodAtHand]

You either power-shield it or dodge through it carefully. If you expect a charged shot follow up or a missile follow up you can try to time the invincibility frames of Nayru's for the Zair and the reflector will reflect the follow up as long as it's a projectile of course.

 

[DTP]

What they said pretty much. Don't go into the air and just shield. Zair is annoying/really fun to use lol

EDIT: lololol I love your avatar Kata

 

[KayLo!]

I'm gonna do a big chunk of research stuff tomorrow, so I'll get to everyone's questions then. =X Including airwalking, Din's in the water, glide tossing, and hopefully a few other things I've been meaning to check out (mostly playing around with buffered inputs).

 

[Fuujin]

Aiiight back on topic please you know the drill. Gonna be stricter with this thread so no more offtopic troll stuffs as of this post onward.

How do people deal with Samus' Zair by any chance?

D tilt sometimes.

D tilt makes Zelda go under Z air(unless timed exactly at the end of her jump), super missiles, beats out regular missiles (unless they come from too high above) goes under uncharged shots and beats out smaller charge shots when timed right.

Z-air cant hit you on even ground with Samus, with the exception that she sends it through the stage when she's near the edge or you're in the air, D tilt should help you not get hit unless she times it perfectly, but most Z airs coming your way wont be done exactly when shes landing.

Once the Samus gets that you go under it and that she has to time it right you'll just have to start shielding.

You can also love jump diagonally forward, but you'll end up above her, and there isn't much Zelda can do above anyone, so that's best when used recovering against her.

 

[KayLo!]

Airwalk via Ledgewarp Confirmed; Water Canceled Din's; Glide Toss Breakdown

Airwalk via Ledgewarp (@HSS)

You were right: you can airwalk with FW. When you ledgewarp, you can drift off the edge of the stage, then drift back on, but the spacing is pretty strict. If you land too close to the edge, you'll fall and grab the ledge instead of landing back on stage.

Airwalking is pretty useless for Zelda as is, but this is something you'll literally never use. ;; Dunno why you wanted to know about it, but there ya go!

Water Canceled Din's (@Fuujin)

Soo.... Fuu, I dunno where you got the idea that you can do Din's faster in the water. You're either mistaken or know some kind of trick to it, because I did four rounds of different tests, and at best I got Din's to come out ~as often as a grounded one.

When a character lands in the water, they have to go through their water landing animation, then struggle for a bit before they can jump again. (The only actions you can do in the water are swimming and jumping.) This creates a delay and limits how often you can Din's despite the fact that landing in the water cancels its animation.

- Test #1: Din's on the first frame of each water jump
- Test #2: Din's at the moment Zelda appears above water after jumping (when a character jumps from the water, they submerge for a bit)
- Test #3: Din's on Zelda's fifth frame above water after jumping
- Test #4: Din's on Zelda's seventh frame above water after jumping​

Normal Din's has a FAF of 57 (assuming you don't hold it). In Test #1, I could Din's every 76th frame; in test #2, every 69th frame; in test #3, every 59th frame; in test #4, every 58th or 59th frame.

Dunno what caused it, but the time between landing in the water and being able to jump would vary sometimes.... it could be anywhere from the 20th frame to the 29th frame. Maybe it depends on how you land in the water.... or maybe how close you are to drowning..... idk, but it wasn't a big enough issue to look into.

Point is, you can't Din's anywhere near to twice as fast as you can on the ground -- unless you meant long distance Din's.

Here're my frame notes if you're interested:

TEST 1: input din's on first frame of water jump
normal din's FAF: 57
water din's FAF: 76
1: water jump start; input din's
39: din's splash land
53: zelda appears
76: water jump start; input din's
114: din's splash land
128: zelda appears

TEST 2: input din's when zelda appears above water
normal din's FAF: 57
water din's FAF: 69
1: water jump start
11: zelda appears; input din's
39: din's splash land
46: zelda appears
70: water jump start
80: zelda appears; input din's
108: din's splash land
115: zelda appears

TEST 3: input din's on zelda's fifth frame above water
normal din's FAF: 57
this test FAF: 59
1: water jump start
11: zelda appears
15: zelda's fifth frame above water; input din's
39: din's splash land
60: water jump start
70: zelda appears
74: zelda's fifth frame above water; input din's
98: din's splash land

TEST 4: input din's on zelda's seventh frame above water
normal din's FAF: 57
this test FAF: 58
1: water jump start
11: zelda appears
17: zelda's seventh frame above water; input din's
39: din's splash land
59: water jump start
69: zelda appears
75: zelda's seventh frame above water; input din's
97: din's splash land
117: water jump start

Glide Toss Breakdown

Finished the glide toss section.

2.7 Glide Toss Breakdown [GLDT]

Glide tossing is a technique that allows you to slide a noticeable distance as you throw an item. Though Zelda can't spawn any items of her own, it can be useful in matchups where the other character can (Diddy, Peach, etc.).

How to perform:

- Input roll in the direction you want to slide; then,
- Input item toss in any direction on the appropriate frame

Throwing the item on frame 1 of Zelda's roll results in a super glide toss (~half the length of FD).
Throwing the item on frames 2-4 of Zelda's roll results in a short glide toss.​

The result:

Zelda will slide while throwing the item.​

Because you can vary both the direction you slide and the direction you throw the item, glide tossing is useful as a mixup and as a way to string into other moves from an item throw.

 

[KayLo!]

Ledge wake shield cancel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlRAWISkLw (credit goes to saviorslegacy)

Zelda is @0:30.

I don't think this is necessarily brand new, but it's worth mentioning for Zelda since it seems like we get a guaranteed(?) LK out of it. I'm wondering if uair will work too. (hmm)

 

[saviorslegacy]

The old vid is stupid, use this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8tlfkRzgRQ

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Dunno why you wanted to know about it, but there ya go!

Mostly to confirm I'd understood the meaning of the term correctly. Thanks.

 

[KayLo!]

Update.

Updated a few things....

- Added fresh dtilt frame advantage @50% for Squirtle (+7), Ivysaur (+5), and Charizard (+5).
- Added fresh dtilt pop up percentages for every character (under "Pop Up" in the dtilt followups section). I'm gonna do partially & fully staled percentages at some point, but those will take a lot longer to test..... got lazy.
- Added original thread for love jumping and video/thread for Nayru's momentum cancel.
- Corrected info on utilting characters from a dtilt trip. It's not guaranteed on anyone at optimal spacing.
- Added grab pummel base damage (3).

 

[Fuujin]

Maybe we should discuss playstyles with Zelda?
Honestly all of these incredibly situational, sometimes guaranteed, stage dependent gimmicks don't seem very helpful in actually winning matches.

 

[Kataefi]

We could use this thread as a tactical discussion thread in addition to finding out new tricks.

Do you guys use a lot of empty SHs to bait?, and in what directions? I've been hopping toward and behind people a lot. But I have a terrible habit of wasting my 2nd jump. I'm interested in how other zeldas make themselves difficult to track in all kinds of situations =D GOGO!

I remember talking to a few other players here about standing still as well when you're next to someone - I'm finding some people will prematurely do an action and if you can match it sooner you can punish them. That's more player dependent however.

Question @Kay: is it possible for Din's fire to poke through a shield? Is there any chance the smashlab might be working on character shields and which parts are weaker due to poking?

Also, like its predecessor this thread documents everything *Looking at Fuujin... again*. It's not wasting any digital cyberspace talking about anything situational. "These are a few of my faaaavourite things!" I know a few of you think the world will explode because you are limited to 3 posts a year but really that's a lie.

 

[Fuujin]

I just d air and move forward a little bit hoping the lingering hotbox will hit the opponent and sometimes it does, for a measly 5 damage :/.
Forwards if I'm behind in % backwards if I'm winning in %.
Standing still can be okay on characters like Luigi with ****ty range.
I'd say it depends on your opponent.
You aren't going to want to stand still next characters like Snake, Marth or Link.
In fact any character who is going to be camping you,
when you get close to them(which is really hard with Zelda) you need to try to make a move.

I find that when you kill someone and you're at high percent yourself if you run over to the edge most of the time as soon as they come back to life people will follow you over and just charge a smash attack the opposite way that your standing as if they expect you to roll into it, it leaves them open for a punish. (This could just apply to me as I roll a lot)

 

[Kataefi]

5% is better than 0. I quite like the stun - I've seen some go for Dair>LK with moderate success because it seems to make people flinch in the air and then also on the ground. What comes into mind when you do get in close? Do you use a lot of crossups or have any tricks to navigate around their shield grab?

With standing still, I find the times in which I feel confident in reading someone generically speaking come from landing or when they've used a tech option or somewhere around platforms. Or the player's really pumped up with red bull and flinches when you cough irl.

Sometimes I "hang" in the air if they're in their shield just outside their grab range but I often don't plan far ahead so I don't get any good rewards out of doing that Xd

 

[KayLo!]

Maybe we should discuss playstyles with Zelda?
Honestly all of these incredibly situational, sometimes guaranteed, stage dependent gimmicks don't seem very helpful in actually winning matches.

What Kata said. This thread's for everything technical relating to Zelda, from the basics to the situational. If people want to know about situational ****, I'll gladly look into it. (Things like glide tossing and frame advantage numbers for dtilt are actually pretty useful, though, so if you think everything that's been added is situational..... well, that's on you.)

Besides, you were the one who brought up water canceled Din's.

I've been looking into finding useful things for Zelda, but it's hard since her moveset is very..... straightforward. Most glitches and techs that are useful for other characters don't work for her, and her attacks don't string into each other very well at all past 0% with the exception of dtilt. Even with buffering.

We could use this thread as a tactical discussion thread in addition to finding out new tricks.

I'd rather not.

If y'all want to discuss tactical/strategy stuff, it's better to have it in a separate thread imo. Trying to keep this on track with research and technical stuff only. If people don't find it useful, that's fine..... I'm doing it because I enjoy it.

@Shield poking stuff: Working on it.

 

[Kataefi]

I find all the frame stuffs really fascinating 2bh. Any chance there's a euro code working for frame testers? Also I don't see a problem using this thread for data/tactical strategies otherwise it'll be just you feeding us numbers and everyone nodding along. But if so I'll make a tactical thread later on. I think it could drum up some activity!

 

[MrEh]

Discussing tactics is something that should either be done in a guide or in matchup threads, since many tactics ARE matchup specific.

 

[Kataefi]

I was thinking of something along the lines of the peach td or the situation game.