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Work In Progress The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (Smash Ultimate Edition!)

Is Balloon Fighter Disconfirmed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 158 51.1%
  • No

    Votes: 63 20.4%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 88 28.5%

  • Total voters
    309

SirCamp

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I doubt it would happen, but all that needs to happen is their AT can't show up. Easy.

I mean, look at what happens when Link or Toon Link(and Young Link now?) are on the Spirit Train stage. They just remove the character when another one is playable. So there's a reasonably possibility they'll repeat that style again.

Speaking of oddities, Knuckles is still on Green Hill Zone.
Yeah that was basically my thought. What actually made me think of it was Krystal (who I'm fairly ambivalent about personally). As far as we know for now she is disconfirmed, but what about later on? If Star Fox Grand Prix (or whatever it ends up being named) turns out to be real and successful, and assuming that DLC is still actively happening at that point, I would think she would be one of the next most logical choices for a star fox character. This is assuming a lot of things to be honest so I still very much doubt it, but I could potentially see it happening, depending on the game's reception and how soon it is announced/released post Smash Bros.
 

Capybara Gaming

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I doubt it would happen, but all that needs to happen is their AT can't show up. Easy.

I mean, look at what happens when Link or Toon Link(and Young Link now?) are on the Spirit Train stage. They just remove the character when another one is playable. So there's a reasonably possibility they'll repeat that style again.

Speaking of oddities, Knuckles is still on Green Hill Zone.
Maybe when Knuckles shows up as an assist trophy, Alfonzo will run with Tails and Silver.

Alfonzo: Leave it to me!
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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It should be noted that the Pokemon at Saffron City are still in their ugly-looking sprite forms. I guess the developers have been rather lazy if they're not willing to fully improve the quality of the Smash 64 stages.
 

Cosmic77

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It should be noted that the Pokemon at Saffron City are still in their ugly-looking sprite forms. I guess the developers have been rather lazy if they're not willing to fully improve the quality of the Smash 64 stages.
I would've liked to have seen something better, but I guess they thought it would appeal to nostalgia. The rest of the stage looks great though, so I can live with one little quirk.



Speaking of Pokemon, Alolan Vulpix got disconfirmed. Not sure if that's a Pokemon worth putting on the list, but it was prominent in the anime.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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I got a soft deconfirm, Birdo.

We say Mushroom Kingdom II in the trailers but it wasn't there long enough for Birdo to show up. Hence the soft.
 

Luigifan18

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I can't wait for this thread to gradually turn into a gathering place of salt and despair.

(EDIT: Lyn deconfirmed; I am now salty and despairing.)
Bomberman and Krystal deconfirmed: I am also salty and despairing.
 

leprechaunlink727

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It should be noted that the Pokemon at Saffron City are still in their ugly-looking sprite forms. I guess the developers have been rather lazy if they're not willing to fully improve the quality of the Smash 64 stages.
It's pretty obviously a deliberate choice for nostalgic purposes just like the 64 stages that were dlc in Sm4sh. I think calling these developers lazy is a ridiculous thing to say. Sakurai literally developed Sm4sh with an elbow injury early morning to late night with no vacations or weekends.
 
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PeridotGX

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Haven't seen anybody mention this but Meta Knight has a new Galacta Knight alt that makes that echo character fairly unlikely:
Galacta Knight is going to be the next poll, as it's up in the air whiether this disconfirms him (Probably though)

I would've liked to have seen something better, but I guess they thought it would appeal to nostalgia. The rest of the stage looks great though, so I can live with one little quirk.



Speaking of Pokemon, Alolan Vulpix got disconfirmed. Not sure if that's a Pokemon worth putting on the list, but it was prominent in the anime.
Everything goes on the list, even if it's something nobody wanted like Abra

I got a soft deconfirm, Birdo.

We say Mushroom Kingdom II in the trailers but it wasn't there long enough for Birdo to show up. Hence the soft.
I'm waiting until we actually see the hazards to put them on the list. That's why stuff like the Saffron City Pokemon are there but not Kamek or the Unova Pokemon League ones
 

Erimir

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They're all on the list, as well as Abra and the Saffron City ones (Charmander, Venusaur, Chansey, etc)
Not that I would consider them likely anyway, but I wouldn't really use Saffron City as evidence, as they're all pixelated sprites. It's about as much evidence for deconfirmation as Donkey Kong being on the arcade DK stage.

But this is a silly point for me to make, as the chances of Charmander, Chansey, Venusaur or Electrode being fighters are approximately 0% in the first place.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Another case of MIA is Kat and Ana.

(remember in the Brawl hype when people wanted them as Ice Climber Semis?)
 

Abiyahuw

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I wanted to register just to say I truly feel sorry for you guys who have to come to this topic to mourn. I really do. I’ve never been a follower of this site much but growing up I always use to check it out and see the excitement.l, who people wanted and were rallying for.

I really like seeing not particularly most of the fanbase as a whole happy, but a large variety of the fanbase happy and I’ve noticed that as the series moved on it started focusing more on “big names” and “relevant” characters. Of course Smash comes out pretty much on every system and as we got towards this one, a lot of characters have been added with less new IPs to add.

I thought this was FINALLY the time Sakurai would focus on the fans with the smaller voices. I was very happy and was wondering if we would get a trailer with a handful of people like Takamaru, Krystal, Waluigi, Isaac etc. but I actually had bit of sadness, seeing that trailer at E3. A lot of these characters still had a decent fanbase behind them and they have been waiting for their chance for a long time. Very patiently some of them. We get to a point where there aren’t many characters left to add and Sakurai does the unimaginable, he goes back and focuses on every cut character in the game.

While I’m not huge on fighting games, I know not every character will come back and I don’t mind going back to the old titles. I actually liked Roy and was okay with popping melee in every so often if he never returned in the series. I knew it was a chance for more people to get the characters THEY were waiting for. But now it seems that these people who were waiting and hoping were told their characters aren’t good enough, when a lot of them actually seem like they would bring fun new movesets (as an aside I do not like Nintendo branding clones as echos as I think its a way to condition consumers to accept more of them). I’m not particularly interested in playing as Young Link or Pichu again I’ve played as across the 1000s of hours I played melee in my younger days.

I’m not a HUGE Waluigi fan, but maybe one day I’m feeling goofy and trollish and want to just hop on to Smash online and just be goofy, Waluigi had the potential to scratch that itch. My wife isn’t big into games, but I was in bed watching the footage and saw Krystal as an assist and just shook my head, I asked her if she would be interested in trying that character out, she googled her, said she was beautiful and would absolutely play as her in the game, not having played a game she is in or known anything about her, so it made me wonder how popularity even matters when a casual probably won’t even care.

It seems this is more of an anniversary game, and even though I’d like to play on some of these stages from my childhood and share them with my kids. To me personally I’m just going to be reminded of the community and how a ton of different fans had characters they were hoping for gone. And while one group may not be as big as a support as a more popular character, many of them combined make a large amount of Smash fans. This many disconfirms via assist where there is difficulty or no way out of seems insane to me. And you all have my sympathy.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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It's pretty obviously a deliberate choice for nostalgic purposes just like the 64 stages that were dlc in Sm4sh. I think calling these developers lazy is a ridiculous thing to say. Sakurai literally developed Sm4sh with an elbow injury early morning to late night with no vacations or weekends.
I guess it just feels strange on the Nintendo Switch. I can understand why the Flying Men only appeared in sprite form for Smash 3DS, since it couldn't handle the Flying Men 3D models without any performance issues.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The thing about the sprites on Saffron City is that they're Pokemon ones. Sakurai doesn't own those sprites. It might've been simply a licensing issue to try and update them, so it was easier to port them over directly instead. I mean, you gotta deal with Gamefreak and The Pokemon Company here. Easier routes make sense for getting content in. Even if they look ugly.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The thing about the sprites on Saffron City is that they're Pokemon ones. Sakurai doesn't own those sprites. It might've been simply a licensing issue to try and update them, so it was easier to port them over directly instead. I mean, you gotta deal with Gamefreak and The Pokemon Company here. Easier routes make sense for getting content in. Even if they look ugly.
It will still feel strange, especially considering that Venusaur and Chansey both received 3D models for Super Smash Bros. Melee. Porygon never appeared in Melee though; Porygon2, however, did.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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It will still feel strange, especially considering that Venusaur and Chansey both received 3D models for Super Smash Bros. Melee. Porygon never appeared in Melee though; Porygon2, however, did.
It's not that strange. They're just trying to keep the stage the same as it always was. A quick HD spread of the graphics is very simple and keeps what it is. Reusing the sprites is actually logic since it requires a ton less animations and they can't get it down faster as well.

With this much content, taking shortcuts is a necessity. At worst, it looks a bit odd next to HD graphics, admittedly.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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It's not that strange. They're just trying to keep the stage the same as it always was. A quick HD spread of the graphics is very simple and keeps what it is. Reusing the sprites is actually logic since it requires a ton less animations and they can't get it down faster as well.

With this much content, taking shortcuts is a necessity. At worst, it looks a bit odd next to HD graphics, admittedly.
I guess I just feel puzzled, since the Poke Ball Pokemon all received 3D models. But if a deadline has to be met, then there's not much you can do about this dilemma.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I guess I just feel puzzled, since the Poke Ball Pokemon all received 3D models. But if a deadline has to be met, then there's not much you can do about this dilemma.
Saffron City however never returned in Melee. It's part nostalgia as well, and there may be other factors. New animations compared to reusing the old ones probably take more unnecessary work.

Like, say they wanted to throw in more Pokeball Pokemon like the classic Charizard. It'd make more sense to use his Smash 64 sprite because it would stand out better while next to a playable Charizard. They could be other factors.

It also could be early in development and it was the best way to show it off quickly. Who knows.
 

Whababa

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I said this in the official discussion thread but to me this leads to Ms. Pacman being very unlikely

'I dont think Ms. Pacman is reasonable as I recall her and her game being made by three MIT students who then had a deal with Namco and Midway. This article expains it pretty well with this direct quote saying: "Macrae: Who owns the rights to Ms. Pac-Man is a very, very complicated issue. Ms. Pac-Man was originally created as a derivative work on Pac-Man. The whole concept of derivative works I don’t think was ever heavily fleshed out in intellectual property law." Im not doubting Sakurai's abilities but it seems like quite the hassle for an alt. '
 

leprechaunlink727

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So according to this Gamexplain video, we've already seen 30 confirmed assist trophies out of the 50+ making an appearance. Thought it might be useful to go through who's appeared so far and who's still missing.

Confirmed:
Andross
Arcade Bunny
Bomberman
Burrowing Snagret
Color TV Game 15
Dr. Kawashima
Dr. Wright
Ghirahim
Ghosts
Hammer Bro
Jeff
Knuckles
Knuckle Joe
Krystal
Lyn
Metroid
Midna
Mother Brain
Nintendog
Rambling Evil Mushroom
Riki
Rodin
Samurai Goroh
Sheriff
Squid SIsters
Starfy
Starman
Sukapon
Takamaru
Waluigi

The rest of this list is Assist Trophies that have appeared previously but are not yet confirmed, with the characters that I personally ( *cough* we're not getting Shadow *cough*) think could be upgraded to fighters bolded and underlined, and those that were already missing from Sm4sh italicized. I've left Little Mac out for what should be obvious reasons. There are 26 of them.

Ashley
Barbara
Chain Chomp
Dark Samus
Devil
Dillon
Elec Man
Excitebikes
Gray Fox
Helirin

Infantry and Tanks
Isaac
Isabelle

Jill Dozer
Kat & Ana
Lakitu & Spinies
Magnus
Mr. Resetti
Nightmare
Phosphora
Ray Mk iii
Sable Prince
Saki Amamiya
Shadow
Skull Kid
Tingle

So if every single Assist trophy (except Little Mac) came back, we would have 56 total. Without any of the 7 that were cut from Brawl returning, that's still 49. There are almost certainly more new Assist Trophies coming as well. I think Yoshi and DK ones are overdue, and maybe a new Punch Out one to replace Little Mac. There will definitely be Street FIghter and Final Fantasy ones added, and I think some kind of Rhythm Heaven and Arms assist are both likely with or without new fighters from those franchises. I would also put pretty good money on Mallo from Pushmo and maybe Chibi Robo as assist trophies as well. So that's at least 9 more fairly likely new ones IMO, and that's without even considering a wider variety of third party possibilities or digging into weird obscurities like Doshin the Giant or Bubbles from Clu Clu Land or my personal favorite, Pious Augustus from Eternal Darkness.

All this to say, it stands to reason that there will easily be 50+ even if a few previous assists have been upgraded to fighters. But the vagueness of 50+ as a number could also mean that none of them have. Hope everybody found this useful?
 

Guybrush20X6

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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but BOTW Link has a Dark Link costume. Well, a Dark Link palette swap but you know what I meant.
 

NintenRob

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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but BOTW Link has a Dark Link costume. Well, a Dark Link palette swap but you know what I meant.
Young Link actually has one too and Toon Link probably keep his. So an echo definitely seems unlikely


But I really want a Triforce Heroes themed event match
Three Links vs Three Dark Links. I was really dissapointed when Hyrule Warriors Legends didn't have a single map referencing it when you fight the three Links.
 

SonicMario

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Has anyone seen Tails in the background of Green Hill Zone? I couldn't see him in any trailers and recorded gameplay and I can't find him anywhere.
Even if he has been spotted it of course wouldn't mean much with it being an old stage. While it will be hard to do because of the RNG of both (Unless they give you an option to choose which Assist Trophies you want to appear). You can very well have Knuckles appear as an Assist Trophy at the exact same time Knuckles appears in the background. And then of course there's the Toon Link on Spirit Train situation of course.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Has anyone seen Tails in the background of Green Hill Zone? I couldn't see him in any trailers and recorded gameplay and I can't find him anywhere.
Duck hunt dog and the dog on the duck hunt stage can be together

Probably the same is true for Ridley on the pyrosphere stage if that's coming back

And knuckles is a assist trophy so if summoned on the green hill I expect knuckles and background to be together

So it wouldn't necessary deconfirm tails
 

Sean Wheeler

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I would like to see Little Mac (who's already confirmed playable) to appear as an Assist Trophy so that we don't lose hope every time we see Assist Trophies of our most wanted characters.
 

Pacack

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I would like to see Little Mac (who's already confirmed playable) to appear as an Assist Trophy so that we don't lose hope every time we see Assist Trophies of our most wanted characters.
Assist Trophies are given exclusively to nonplayable characters. It's not like a stage presence is.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Not sure if he was ever in the running but has anyone caught a sight of 8-Bit Lakitu?
 

Smashiny

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It should be noted that the Pokemon at Saffron City are still in their ugly-looking sprite forms. I guess the developers have been rather lazy if they're not willing to fully improve the quality of the Smash 64 stages.
It think it was actually confirmed in the gamexplain interview with Bill Trinen that Saffron City and its sprites are being kept retro because of nostalgia reasons
 

Arcadenik

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It think it was actually confirmed in the gamexplain interview with Bill Trinen that Saffron City and its sprites are being kept retro because of nostalgia reasons
Oh, pish posh! They bothered to update Kongo Jungle (Melee) and Great Bay. Why not keep them as-is for nostalgia reasons? They should have at least updated the 2D sprites into HD hand-drawn sprites if they couldn't be bothered to make 3D models of those Pokemon.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Oh, pish posh! They bothered to update Kongo Jungle (Melee) and Great Bay. Why not keep them as-is for nostalgia reasons? They should have at least updated the 2D sprites into HD hand-drawn sprites if they couldn't be bothered to make 3D models of those Pokemon.
People really really like Generation 1, some even still love the original old games. It's an extremely popular gen. It might be more of a fun pandering to those specific fans.

Plus, it's not like it's a bad thing. Something for everyone. New and old~
 

SirCamp

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Assist Trophies are given exclusively to nonplayable characters. It's not like a stage presence is.
This is how it has been so far. But things can change. No reason to assume a rule like that can't be broken, no less by DLC (assuming the DLC characters truly aren't planned beforehand).

Do I think it's likely? Not really. I don't expect that particular unwritten rule to change personally. But given the thread we're in assume they knew that already and are just doing some nonsense speculating.

And that's all we can really do anyway. I would certainly never assume that something like that will change, or predict anything based off that. But speculating about it, why not?
 
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SvartWolf

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I got a soft deconfirm, Birdo.

We say Mushroom Kingdom II in the trailers but it wasn't there long enough for Birdo to show up. Hence the soft.
While i dont think that Birdo will be playable, does this really counts as a disconfirmation?

I mean... pixelated duck hunt dog never got in the way of actual duck hunt dog.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Stage Hazards are considered disconfirmed for the purpose of the thread. Simply appearing on a stage alone is a case-by-case basis.

Not to say many of this thread's rules can't be broken, obviously. I mean, fan rules get slashed out quite often.
 

NintenRob

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I reckon appearing in pixel form shouldn't count as deconfirmation. We already have Donkey Kong and Duck Hunt. And even Lakitu appears with two roles in the 3DS version.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Stage Hazards are considered disconfirmed for the purpose of the thread. Simply appearing on a stage alone is a case-by-case basis.

Not to say many of this thread's rules can't be broken, obviously. I mean, fan rules get slashed out quite often.
Just imagine if Pyrosphere returned. It wouldn't matter if Other M Ridley returned now, since the real Ridley is already confirmed to be playable.
 

Koopaul

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Assist Trophies were created for the purpose of putting characters who couldn't quite make it as fighters and putting on the battlefield.

A character being confirmed as an Assist Trophiy should be the absolute death of their chances as a fighter... In the current game. Future games hold more promise.
 
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Pacack

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This is how it has been so far. But things can change. No reason to assume a rule like that can't be broken, no less by DLC (assuming the DLC characters truly aren't planned beforehand).

Do I think it's likely? Not really. I don't expect that particular unwritten rule to change personally. But given the thread we're in assume they knew that already and are just doing some nonsense speculating.

And that's all we can really do anyway. I would certainly never assume that something like that will change, or predict anything based off that. But speculating about it, why not?
And you're welcome to speculate about that.

However, this thread is meant to be informational, and it will likely continue to list assist trophy characters as disconfirmed until that precedence is broken.
 
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