Work In Progress The Graveyard: Disconfirmed Character Thread (Smash Ultimate Edition!)

[_Sheik]

PeridotGX

I think every AT that perished with Brawl (Gray Fox, Isaac, Custom Robo..) is worth including in the "Notable absent previously disconfirmed characters" list. After all, Starfy was a Brawl-only AT, yet he came back in Ultimate.

EDIT: nevermind about Starfy, he returned in Smash 4. But I still believe including all the Brawl ones would be wise

EDIT2: I have no idea if he's been seen in Ultimate yet but Saki Amamiya appears to be missing in both lists

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Daily reminder this should be in newcomer speculation, can someone move the thread there?

Also IMO stage appearances are damning to characters that are not veterans. As much as I would have liked Pauline I consider her deconfirmed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Daily reminder this should be in newcomer speculation, can someone move the thread there?

Also IMO stage appearances are damning to characters that are not veterans. As much as I would have liked Pauline I consider her deconfirmed.

This isn't in Newcomer Speculation because most people are active in the General Discussion, making it way easier to see this thread and report on stuff.

Also, as proven with Toon Link before(and if it's not that clear, Toon Link's game appearances are stated as Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks. Yes, they put the same character that is playable in the background), just appearing on a stage isn't good enough alone. Mind you, I don't honestly think Pauline will make the cut, but we have no information at all on what she does on the stage, thus, it's useless to act like she's disconfirmed with nothing backing it but a pure gut feeling.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's the list of Alt costumes seen so far.

Looks like Bayo still has her Jeanne alt but alt costumes are a tenuous thing (Pit's missing dark angel outfit did lead to something but Mario's Wario costume didn't stop the man himself.)

 

[Erimir]

I think appearance on stage depends on how they appear.

How does their appearance compare to their likely appearance in-game? Link in Spirit Tracks is wearing the engineer's outfit instead of the hero's tunic, ergo it doesn't conflict much. (Which is too bad, I had kinda hoped Link would get that outfit as an alt. Tri-Force Heroes also provides some fun alt costume options though, so maybe we'll see one of those...)

The Pokemon on Saffron City are pixelated "retro" looking instead of 3D. If they appeared as playable fighters, they would look very different.

But Pauline in Super Mario Odyssey has an appearance very similar to what you would expect if she were playable. Why would they base her appearance on earlier games where she was far less fleshed out as a character and her design was far less detailed/attractive? Her appearance in the original Donkey Kong was too similar to Peach (blonde, pink dress), so that would be an especially poor basis for her design. While she's not absolutely 100% disconfirmed, she's pretty damn close. And even then, you're not far from arguing that maybe Krystal could be playable or Meta Ridley could be an Echo Fighter. Just because we've never seen an AT or what appeared to be an alt costume and then had that character be playable in the same game doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Sakurai could do it if he wanted. So it's not 100% for those two either. Theoretically.

 

[NintenRob]

Here's the list of Alt costumes seen so far.

Looks like Bayo still has her Jeanne alt but alt costumes are a tenuous thing (Pit's missing dark angel outfit did lead to something but Mario's Wario costume didn't stop the man himself.)

I thought people said that Mario was missing his wedding and builder outfit in the demo. That makes Meta Ridley the only one unaccounted for

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I thought people said that Mario was missing his wedding and builder outfit in the demo. That makes Meta Ridley the only one unaccounted for

No, he's just missing Fire Mario in the demo.

It's very clear that the demo is not going to have every costume and we should be patient. No different from many AT's simply not being in the demo(like apparently Waluigi is unavailable).

 

[Guybrush20X6]

No, he's just missing Fire Mario in the demo.

It's very clear that the demo is not going to have every costume and we should be patient. No different from many AT's simply not being in the demo(like apparently Waluigi is unavailable).

Which means he was in the initial show-off on gosh-darned purpose.

 

[Cosmic77]

People need to be careful with this, "Waluigi wasn't in the demo" thing. I used the exact same argument for Ridley when Pyrosphere wasn't playable at E3 2014.



As a general rule, I say that any character who appears as a stage hazard, Assist Trophy, or standard trophy (although this one is somewhat circumstantial, as many Zelda and Star Fox characters have variants) is disconfirmed until DLC. Alts and stage cameos can decrease a character's chances, but they shouldn't count as a disinformation since previous Smash games have worked around this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's an odd thing, that said, when it comes to Final Smashes; Zero Suit Samus' new Final Smash literally has her put on her power suit, land on her ship, and fire lasers. I don't think it means much, but I wonder if Final Smash cameos are truly automatic disconfirmations in reality(I know they are for the sake of this thread) now.

 

[Spirit Toons]

Pauline deconfirmed as background character on New Donk City stage, watch Mario's video on his page.

Not exactly, Toon Link was a stage element on 3DS and a character

 

[Guybrush20X6]

BTW, here's a list of absent Pokemon from 4.

1. Arceus
2. Fenikin
3. Fletchling
4. Gardevoir
5. Genesect
6. Gogoat
7. Inkay
8. Keldeo
9. Kyruem
10. Meloetta
11. Moltres
12. Oshawott
13. Snivy
14. Sewpa
15. Swirlix
16. Victini
17. Togepi

And there's also Dedene who was allegedly seen but no photo yet

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here's an odd thing, that said, when it comes to Final Smashes; Zero Suit Samus' new Final Smash literally has her put on her power suit, land on her ship, and fire lasers. I don't think it means much, but I wonder if Final Smash cameos are truly automatic disconfirmations in reality(I know they are for the sake of this thread) now.

To be fair Zero Suit Samus is still samus, that doesn't really mean Chrom could be in Robin's final smash AND be playable

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair Zero Suit Samus is still samus, that doesn't really mean Chrom could be in Robin's final smash AND be playable

Actually, it does mean it could happen. It's utter proof that Final Smashes don't mean jack-all anymore since they already changed how they worked in the first place. I wouldn't put much stock into previous "fan rules" anymore. Too much got changed overall.

 

[fogbadge]

People need to be careful with this, "Waluigi wasn't in the demo" thing. I used the exact same argument for Ridley when Pyrosphere wasn't playable at E3 2014.



As a general rule, I say that any character who appears as a stage hazard, Assist Trophy, or standard trophy (although this one is somewhat circumstantial, as many Zelda and Star Fox characters have variants) is disconfirmed until DLC. Alts and stage cameos can decrease a character's chances, but they shouldn't count as a disinformation since previous Smash games have worked around this.

he was in the e3 presentation

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Smash arguments never change. Only the subject.

"Ridley isn't dis-confirmed yet in spite of everything seen."
"It wouldn't make sense for Daisy to be a Peach clone"

The ride never ends.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

We have the Heart Princess, the Flower Princess, the Star Princess, and the Light Princess... Why can't we have the Twilight Princess?

*Sits in a corner*
*Plays Midna's Lament on headphones*

This song is more appropriate than ever before!

 

[Opossum]

We have the Heart Princess, the Flower Princess, the Star Princess, and the Light Princess... Why can't we have the Twilight Princess?

*Sits in a corner*
*Plays Midna's Lament on headphones*

This song is more appropriate than ever before!

Don't forget the Future Princess and the Lost Princess (F).

 

[Nintendotard]

How exactly is Balloon Fighter deconfirmed?

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Don't forget the Future Princess and the Lost Princess (F).

Didn't know they were Princesses. Haven't played their games.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

We have the Heart Princess, the Flower Princess, the Star Princess, and the Light Princess... Why can't we have the Twilight Princess?

*Sits in a corner*
*Plays Midna's Lament on headphones*

This song is more appropriate than ever before!

Wait I thought rosalina wasn't a princess? or is she? tbh I don't know lol

 

[PeridotGX]

How exactly is Balloon Fighter deconfirmed?

It's up for debate whether Villager's Up Special disconfirms them, so I'm letting the poll decide.

 

[Starbound]

Tingle is on Great Bay.

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009615548055896064

 

[Cosmic77]

Tingle is on Great Bay.

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009615548055896064

This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who's played this stage before.

Seeing how he actually serves a purpose in this stage aside from just a cameo, I'd chalk this up as a deconfirmation. At best, this will be another Palkia situation.

 

[PeridotGX]

Tingle is on Great Bay.

https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1009615548055896064

Noted, added to the list.

 

[Shawksta]

I noticed you have Tingle listed as being in the Great Bay Stage but also missing Assist trophy.

I kind of feel like Tingle is major to Great bay since his balloon counts as a platform and might deconfirm him unless Sakurai doesn’t care. We do have Saffron to consider

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I noticed you have Tingle listed as being in the Great Bay Stage but also missing Assist trophy.

I kind of feel like Tingle is major to Great bay since his balloon counts as a platform and might deconfirm him unless Sakurai doesn’t care. We do have Saffron to consider

Tingle's in a odd place as he's not so much a person as a title. Tingle in Majora's Mask is the Manchild son of the boathouse keeper, Tingle in Wind Waker is a map decrypter/cult leader, Tingle in Four Swords Adventures is a dirty rotten thief who would not last five minutes in Link's Awakening, Tingle in Minish Cap is a Kinstone nut and in the Tingle spin off games, you name the 35 year old loser who becomes the new Tingle.

So while that's Majora Tingle on the stage, the Wind Waker or Rosey Ruppeland Tingle could be playable and Dave Jr. is forced to squeeze into the suit and Alphonzo it.

"Leave it to me... call the cops"

 

[Shawksta]

So while that's Majora Tingle on the stage, the Wind Waker or Rosey Ruppeland Tingle could be playable and Dave Jr. is forced to squeeze into the suit and Alphonzo it.

Jokes aside, I feel like the only character that can get that exception is Ridley for Pyrosphere but we don’t really know either way.
But it’s extremely high that every stage is coming back with maybe the exception of Miiverse but even that’s up for debate

 

[Curious Villager]

Eh I can see Tingle appearing as an Assist Trophy too. That's the Toon one after all.
Plus we apparently have Knuckles as both an Assist and Stage cameo.

 

[NintenRob]

Also, don't we have Pokeball Palkia and Spear Pillar back?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Got a minor deconfirmation on Cranky Kong. Looking at the stages in the background of character profiles, it looks like the one with the rapids in Melee (DK stage names run together for me) is back though I haven't' sighted the silhouette of CK yet.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Nope backgrounds don't deconfirm character

The biggest piece of evidence of this is duck hunt on the duck hunt stage since both the dog and the playable version on the stage

And if pyrosphere is a returning stage I think it's a safe bet playable Ridley can fight boss hazard Ridley

 

[Xigger]

Nope backgrounds don't deconfirm character

The biggest piece of evidence of this is duck hunt on the duck hunt stage since both the dog and the playable version on the stage

And if pyrosphere is a returning stage I think it's a safe bet playable Ridley can fight boss hazard Ridley

Actually, the biggest piece of evidence was the Spirit Tracks stage. Toon Link running the train, but Alfonse when he's a selected fighter.

So that stand to reason that, say, Animal Crossing villagers shouldn't be in the graveyard!

By the way, I don't think Balloon Fighter's been a relevant character suggestion since Melee. Sakurai quickly dismissed him and 5 other fighters in that decade-old interview.

 

[DNeon]

By the way, I don't think Balloon Fighter's been a relevant character suggestion since Melee. Sakurai quickly dismissed him and 5 other fighters in that decade-old interview.

Previous dismissal hasn't stopped characters before. Sakurai changes his mind a lot on what he can and can't make work.

 

[Drawcia]

Previous dismissal hasn't stopped characters before. Sakurai changes his mind a lot on what he can and can't make work.

That’s not good logic, though. Just because a person has changed their minds before doesn’t make their word any less credible. Until we have new information, Sakurai’s statement about them is still what we should expect.

 

[DNeon]

Just because a person has changed their minds before doesn’t make their word any less credible.

It kinda does.

Regardless, the purpose of this thread is 'disconfirmed'. Things we've never seen characters come back from.

 

[Drawcia]

It kinda does

Well, then that means no one is credible, because everyone has changed their mind before.

 

[Cosmic77]

Ridley is in Smash.

Seriously, why are we still analyzing every word that comes out of this guy's mouth? Sakurai is a fickle man.

 

[DNeon]

Well, then that means no one is credible, because everyone has changed their mind before.

No, it means no quote from 15 years ago is going to be entirely credible. It's not black and white, don't strawman this, I said that it becomes less credible.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So in short, the only sure fire disconfirmations are characters that are Assist Trophies or part of another characters's moveset?