Corrupted
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Messages
- 446
Just making this easier to read than raw frame data with pictures and such. All data will be vs Mario add/deduct percentages based on how heavy the character is in comparison to Mario. I'm using hotgarbages pictures (hope you don't mind!). I'll be talking about the normal turnips. As a bonus I added data on vs shields.
note: on these images, ignore mario, just imaging that the turnip hits the opponent at the same place where the turnip is on the picture.
Advantage vs shield: how many frames your opponant has to play with to punish you (positive advantage) or how many frames you can pressure his shield before he can do anything (negative advantage).
Hit advantage: How many frames you have while he is still in stun and your move has ended (for combos).
With this throw the turnip will hit asap. The turnip will hit on frame 12 and at this range you will be punishing mid-range tilts and such. The down side to the turnip hitting so fast, is that you still have to complete the animation, before you can follow-up. You don't get the best combo advantage, but its a very fast OoS option.
0%
Normal: +2
At 0% only a jab is guarenteed
From 12% a grab is legit, at later percentages you should dash grab.
20%
Normal: +7
From 26% you can (ground float) nair or dash attack. The former generally has better follow-ups.
40%
normal: +10
60%
Normal: +13
!!! At 73% you can buffer a hyphen usmash, at later percentages you may have to run a bit.
80%
Normal: +16
At 86% you can stutter-step fsmash, though be aware a pan will most likely miss.
100%
Normal: +19
Vs shields you will be at a -9 advantage (not character specific). Most characters can shield grab (tethers can't) before you can do anything. Fast upBs can get you too. Vs a shield, a point blank turnip throw is not safe.
With this throw you will most likely be punishing a long ranged tilt (snake, MK) or a short ranged projectile (lucas, DDD). This throw will take 9 frames longer to hit your opponent, but you have 9 frames more to follow-up the turnip. You will be further away from the opponent when the turnip hits which limits the follow-ups.
0%
Normal: +11
At very low percentages the follow-up with the biggest damage output is a dash grab for a chain grab. When out of chaingrab range a ground float nair (with a dash) is a good option. Dash attack and dash grab will always combo from this distance.
!!! At 13% you can start a uair string with a buffered dash and a ground float uair. This only works vs taller characters. See this thread for more details.
20%
Normal: +16
At 20% you can sh dair with a buffered dash. Its not too late to start a uair string vs smaller characters so go for it! If you can't perform the uair string, a dair to utilt will work too. Don't try this at higher percentages; the dair will send you enemy into a tumble (thus making any follow up not guarenteed).
40%
normal: +19
60%
Normal: +22
At 60% a glide toss will start to combo into a fair. I advise you thoguh to only do this at higher percentages for a kill, don't stale your fair! In the meantime dash grab with some pummels will do just fine.
80%
Normal: +25
100%
Normal: +28
Usmash from about 65% (guarenteed kill setup). The reason why it is not around 15%, like the data may suggest, is because you have to buffer a dash, but you have to wait untill you usmash. too soon ans you will get a sourspot, to late and it can be shielded.
A glide toss from this distance is pretty safe on shield (0 frame advantage): you can jab before they can do anything (even a shieldgrab).
A glide toss from this range is generally an appoache. The hitbox will hit on frame 27 making it not fast enough for punishing. It is shieldable on reaction but yields a great shield advantage. Its also has great combo ability, but they will have to be long ranged because you are far away.
0%
Normal: +17
A dair will work from 0% if you are fast enough to buffer a dash and then a dair. You have to DI towards them during the start-up of the dair to make this work.
20%
Normal: +22
From 20% a fair will work, but you are better of saving this option for the kill. Dash attack/grab work untill they are out of range (around 80% i think, will test later!).
40%
normal: +25
60%
Normal: +28
80%
Normal: +31
100%
Normal: +35
At 105% you can foxtrot and then hyphen usmash (foxtrot lasts 21 frames and covers a lot of ground).
Your only option will be a fair, despite the huge frame advantage.
Vs a shield (6 frame advantage): you should dtilt after the throw. You will be outside of their grab range (normal grabs), and the dtilt will come out before tethers can grab you. The dtilt in itself is safe on shield so this is amzing pressure.
Anything further away then this step in unpunishable on shield but will not have any guarenteed follow-ups.
May add some stuff on sh dthrow turnip later.
Start abusing these follow-ups and make Peach top tier.
Thank you for reading/scanning though/whatever.
note: on these images, ignore mario, just imaging that the turnip hits the opponent at the same place where the turnip is on the picture.
Advantage vs shield: how many frames your opponant has to play with to punish you (positive advantage) or how many frames you can pressure his shield before he can do anything (negative advantage).
Hit advantage: How many frames you have while he is still in stun and your move has ended (for combos).
With this throw the turnip will hit asap. The turnip will hit on frame 12 and at this range you will be punishing mid-range tilts and such. The down side to the turnip hitting so fast, is that you still have to complete the animation, before you can follow-up. You don't get the best combo advantage, but its a very fast OoS option.
0%
Normal: +2
At 0% only a jab is guarenteed
From 12% a grab is legit, at later percentages you should dash grab.
20%
Normal: +7
From 26% you can (ground float) nair or dash attack. The former generally has better follow-ups.
40%
normal: +10
60%
Normal: +13
!!! At 73% you can buffer a hyphen usmash, at later percentages you may have to run a bit.
80%
Normal: +16
At 86% you can stutter-step fsmash, though be aware a pan will most likely miss.
100%
Normal: +19
Vs shields you will be at a -9 advantage (not character specific). Most characters can shield grab (tethers can't) before you can do anything. Fast upBs can get you too. Vs a shield, a point blank turnip throw is not safe.
With this throw you will most likely be punishing a long ranged tilt (snake, MK) or a short ranged projectile (lucas, DDD). This throw will take 9 frames longer to hit your opponent, but you have 9 frames more to follow-up the turnip. You will be further away from the opponent when the turnip hits which limits the follow-ups.
0%
Normal: +11
At very low percentages the follow-up with the biggest damage output is a dash grab for a chain grab. When out of chaingrab range a ground float nair (with a dash) is a good option. Dash attack and dash grab will always combo from this distance.
!!! At 13% you can start a uair string with a buffered dash and a ground float uair. This only works vs taller characters. See this thread for more details.
20%
Normal: +16
At 20% you can sh dair with a buffered dash. Its not too late to start a uair string vs smaller characters so go for it! If you can't perform the uair string, a dair to utilt will work too. Don't try this at higher percentages; the dair will send you enemy into a tumble (thus making any follow up not guarenteed).
40%
normal: +19
60%
Normal: +22
At 60% a glide toss will start to combo into a fair. I advise you thoguh to only do this at higher percentages for a kill, don't stale your fair! In the meantime dash grab with some pummels will do just fine.
80%
Normal: +25
100%
Normal: +28
Usmash from about 65% (guarenteed kill setup). The reason why it is not around 15%, like the data may suggest, is because you have to buffer a dash, but you have to wait untill you usmash. too soon ans you will get a sourspot, to late and it can be shielded.
A glide toss from this distance is pretty safe on shield (0 frame advantage): you can jab before they can do anything (even a shieldgrab).
A glide toss from this range is generally an appoache. The hitbox will hit on frame 27 making it not fast enough for punishing. It is shieldable on reaction but yields a great shield advantage. Its also has great combo ability, but they will have to be long ranged because you are far away.
0%
Normal: +17
A dair will work from 0% if you are fast enough to buffer a dash and then a dair. You have to DI towards them during the start-up of the dair to make this work.
20%
Normal: +22
From 20% a fair will work, but you are better of saving this option for the kill. Dash attack/grab work untill they are out of range (around 80% i think, will test later!).
40%
normal: +25
60%
Normal: +28
80%
Normal: +31
100%
Normal: +35
At 105% you can foxtrot and then hyphen usmash (foxtrot lasts 21 frames and covers a lot of ground).
Your only option will be a fair, despite the huge frame advantage.
Vs a shield (6 frame advantage): you should dtilt after the throw. You will be outside of their grab range (normal grabs), and the dtilt will come out before tethers can grab you. The dtilt in itself is safe on shield so this is amzing pressure.
Anything further away then this step in unpunishable on shield but will not have any guarenteed follow-ups.
May add some stuff on sh dthrow turnip later.
Start abusing these follow-ups and make Peach top tier.
Thank you for reading/scanning though/whatever.
