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The General Bandai-Namco Discussion Thread

Which Bandai-Namco characters would you like to see get in?


  • Total voters
    135

RetrogamerMax

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So even if we don't get another Bandai-Namco newcomer in this game, do y'all think we'll get any new Bandai-Namco Mii costumes to come along with the likely returning Lloyd costume? While I would love these characters as fighters, I think Nightmare, Yoshimitsu, KOS-MOS and Prince of All Cosmos would make for some really cool Mii costumes.
 

SharkLord

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Katamari was never in arcades, every entry has been a home console or handheld release.
Knowing this makes me wonder why they didn't add a Tales character to the roulette. It seems that Lloyd's designer needs to be credited, but surely it shouldn't be that difficult for just a single reused sprite. I mean, sure, Lloyd might not have one, but I'm sure someone like Cress would've worked just fine as well. Maybe the sprites are a bit too detailed, but seeing as they just ported over Don-Chan's face without much care, that shouldn't be too much of an issue either.
 

DrifloonEmpire

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Knowing this makes me wonder why they didn't add a Tales character to the roulette. It seems that Lloyd's designer needs to be credited, but surely it shouldn't be that difficult for just a single reused sprite. I mean, sure, Lloyd might not have one, but I'm sure someone like Cress would've worked just fine as well. Maybe the sprites are a bit too detailed, but seeing as they just ported over Don-Chan's face without much care, that shouldn't be too much of an issue either.
Don's face also doubles as a "Don" note in Taiko no Tatsujin, so his face is already a sprite there. Heihachi's sprite came from Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and the Prince's came from Me and My Katamari's credits minigame. They probably just didn't have any available sprites for Tales characters. Also Tales' omission was a base game decision so it doesn't have any bearing on this pass.
 
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SharkLord

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Don's face also doubles as a "Don" note in Taiko no Tatsujin, so his face is already a sprite there. Heihachi's sprite came from Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and the Prince's came from Me and My katamari's credits minigame. They probably just didn't have any available sprites for Tales characters. Also Tales' omission was a base game decision so it doesn't have any bearing on this pass.
Yeah, I know the face is a sprite. I mainly brought it up because they didn't care about it clashing with the other sprites.

I sorta doubt not having any available sprites was much of an issue. For Lloyd, maybe, but for Tales in general? Phantasia covers that niche pretty well, I think
1619847659986.png

It's all sprites, so if they're going for Tales in general I think they could use Cress without much issue. If they specifically wanted Lloyd or Yuri, though, I could see the issues; Lloyd doesn't seem to have any sprites, and Yuri's PXZ sprites might cause some rights issues since it's a multi-company collab.

We don't know what went on behind that, though, or if Tales was ever considered for the roulette. Guessing is all we can do, I suppose.
 
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Commander_Alph

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Yeah, I know the face is a sprite. I mainly brought it up because they didn't care about it clashing with the other sprites.

I sorta doubt not having any available sprites was much of an issue. For Lloyd, maybe, but for Tales in general? Phantasia covers that niche pretty well, I think
View attachment 313371
It's all sprites, so if they're going for Tales in general I think they could use Cress without much issue. If they specifically wanted Lloyd or Yuri, though, I could see the issues; Lloyd doesn't seem to have any sprites, and Yuri's PXZ sprites might cause some rights issues since it's a multi-company collab.

We don't know what went on behind that, though, or if Tales was ever considered for the roulette. Guessing is all we can do, I suppose.
I think Phantasia is mostly a niche entry in the series with not so popular character, maybe just me but idk if the Tekken Tag 2 sprite or even the Me & My Katamari also feature other character so why not use, let just say Jin or Kazuya instead of specifically Heihachi.
 

Starlight Liger

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so you agree with the idea that Nintendo would chose to celebrate tales anniversary over their own big 3 for the sake of "brand synergy"?
Yeah, because the fighter's pass has predominantly been third-party characters. The only first-party characters confirmed have been from relatively recent Nintendo games. Nintendo as a business wants to expand the number of Super Smash Bros Ultimate customers and third-party characters achieve that.
 

Guynamednelson

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Nintendo as a business wants to expand the number of Super Smash Bros Ultimate customers
Nintendo WANTED to. But Nintendo should know about the concept of diminishing returns, since characters like :ultrob:,
:ultdarkpit:, and :ultbyleth: get added because they know they no longer need to bring the hype to secure sales of Smash.
 

fogbadge

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Yeah, because the fighter's pass has predominantly been third-party characters. The only first-party characters confirmed have been from relatively recent Nintendo games. Nintendo as a business wants to expand the number of Super Smash Bros Ultimate customers and third-party characters achieve that.
since when are three years and four years relatively recent?
 

Guynamednelson

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since when are three years and four years relatively recent?
They became "relatively recent" to continue acting like every single first-party DLC newcomer is 100% like Corrin.
 

Starlight Liger

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Nintendo WANTED to. But Nintendo should know about the concept of diminishing returns, since characters like :ultrob:,
:ultdarkpit:, and :ultbyleth: get added because they know they no longer need to bring the hype to secure sales of Smash.
Byleth was added to promote Fire Emblem Three Houses whilst Dark Pit was an echo fighter from Smash Bros Wii U/3DS and ROB was from Brawl. Unless we get a Nintendo character from an upcoming Nintendo property, I just don't see Nintendo adding another paid first-party fighter. To preface, I'm speaking strictly from a business perspective.

since when are three years and four years relatively recent?
ARMS, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Fire Emblem Three Houses are games that are available on Nintendo Switch, the 3-4 year life spans of the respective games are irrelevant partly because an ARMS character and Pyra/Mythra were supposed to be added to the base roster but missed the mark due to deadlines and also because all three games have opportunities for sales growth.
 

fogbadge

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Byleth was added to promote Fire Emblem Three Houses whilst Dark Pit was an echo fighter from Smash Bros Wii U/3DS and ROB was from Brawl. Unless we get a Nintendo character from an upcoming Nintendo property, I just don't see Nintendo adding another paid first-party fighter. To preface, I'm speaking strictly from a business perspective.



ARMS, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Fire Emblem Three Houses are games that are available on Nintendo Switch, the 3-4 year life spans of the respective games are irrelevant partly because an ARMS character and Pyra/Mythra were supposed to be added to the base roster but missed the mark due to deadlines and also because all three games have opportunities for sales growth.
no they weren’t supposed to be in the base roster, they would have been if they could have been
 

Rie Sonomura

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no they weren’t supposed to be in the base roster, they would have been if they could have been
There was a literal interview where Sakurai said an ARMS and XC2 rep missed the deadline for base roster. We got the Spring Man Assist and Rex Mii in the meantime until Min Min and Pythra happened
 

fogbadge

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There was a literal interview where Sakurai said an ARMS and XC2 rep missed the deadline for base roster. We got the Spring Man Assist and Rex Mii in the meantime until Min Min and Pythra happened
that’s what I said, missing the deadline does not mean they were meant to be part of it, it means he finished it before he knew about them
 

SharkLord

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I think Phantasia is mostly a niche entry in the series with not so popular character, maybe just me but idk if the Tekken Tag 2 sprite or even the Me & My Katamari also feature other character so why not use, let just say Jin or Kazuya instead of specifically Heihachi.
Phantasia's sold into the millions with all the ports together. Not sure if it's that niche. I remember it scored pretty high in the rankings of the last Tales of Festival for Japan, but I can't seem to find it. Still, I'd imagine that slotting Cress into the roulette wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

More than anything, though, I'm just curious as to the thought process of the roulette. The Prince means it doesn't have to be from an arcade, Don-Chan allows the sprites to be non-pixelated, etc. I'm just curious as to the development behind that little taunt.
 

DanganZilla5

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In regards to Lloyd's absence from the roulette, it is peculiar indeed. It could simply be that the developers may not have wanted to contact the copyright owner (forgot his name) for some reason or couldn't. But my conspiracy side tells me that Sakurai did not put Lloyd in there because he already knew he wanted Lloyd to be a playable character. I've said it before, but I'm a bit fishy on Lloyd's absence, even if there is a good chance that his costume had the bad luck of returning last. But between Sakurai saying that Lloyd would be the most fitting rep for Tales, plus Bamco working on the game, I have to wonder if they are saving Lloyd as a thank you to Bamco.

I know that Sakurai isn't choosing the characters, but think about it. "Nintendo chose the characters" is kind of vague. Maybe Nintendo would have wanted to thank Bamco themselves or maybe Sakurai could have suggested Lloyd since Tales is huge after all. I',m not exactly sure where I'm going with this to be honest, aside from explaining that I think Lloyd still has a solid chance.
 

Rie Sonomura

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In regards to Lloyd's absence from the roulette, it is peculiar indeed. It could simply be that the developers may not have wanted to contact the copyright owner (forgot his name) for some reason or couldn't. But my conspiracy side tells me that Sakurai did not put Lloyd in there because he already knew he wanted Lloyd to be a playable character. I've said it before, but I'm a bit fishy on Lloyd's absence, even if there is a good chance that his costume had the bad luck of returning last. But between Sakurai saying that Lloyd would be the most fitting rep for Tales, plus Bamco working on the game, I have to wonder if they are saving Lloyd as a thank you to Bamco.

I know that Sakurai isn't choosing the characters, but think about it. "Nintendo chose the characters" is kind of vague. Maybe Nintendo would have wanted to thank Bamco themselves or maybe Sakurai could have suggested Lloyd since Tales is huge after all. I',m not exactly sure where I'm going with this to be honest, aside from explaining that I think Lloyd still has a solid chance.
Kosuke Fujishima is who you’re thinking of. He’s Lloyd’s character designer and was credited for Lloyd’s 4 Mii costume
 

SharkLord

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In regards to Lloyd's absence from the roulette, it is peculiar indeed. It could simply be that the developers may not have wanted to contact the copyright owner (forgot his name) for some reason or couldn't. But my conspiracy side tells me that Sakurai did not put Lloyd in there because he already knew he wanted Lloyd to be a playable character. I've said it before, but I'm a bit fishy on Lloyd's absence, even if there is a good chance that his costume had the bad luck of returning last. But between Sakurai saying that Lloyd would be the most fitting rep for Tales, plus Bamco working on the game, I have to wonder if they are saving Lloyd as a thank you to Bamco.

I know that Sakurai isn't choosing the characters, but think about it. "Nintendo chose the characters" is kind of vague. Maybe Nintendo would have wanted to thank Bamco themselves or maybe Sakurai could have suggested Lloyd since Tales is huge after all. I',m not exactly sure where I'm going with this to be honest, aside from explaining that I think Lloyd still has a solid chance.
Yeah, even with Fujishima's deals, it's kinda odd that Tales is the sole Smash 4 Mii series to not receive any sort of representation whatsoever. Doubly so when you consider how it's been saved for last, meaning that it's gone years while still remaining unrepresented when every other Smash 4 Mii has. It's entirely possible it doesn't have a fighter, but it's still an odd footnote in the SSBU cycle.

One theory I had back when the negotiations (Re: Chun-Lloyd, the only takeaway apparently) rumor is that either Nintendo or Bamco intentionally held back on a Tales rep to see how well Berseria and/or Vesperia DE did, to see how viable Velvet or Yuri would be. Of course, Lloyd is still entirely possible in this scenario, what with his legacy for the series.

And with that legacy... Hopefully we can get a Symphonia remake/remaster on the Switch. A lot of people have probably heard of Lloyd and are interested in his game, the Steam version is apparently inferior to the GC one, and my potato laptop can't even run it anyways. Might as well revamp it in the style of Berseria or Arise, too, since apparently it's starting to show it's age. C'mon, Bandai-Namco, just let me play the dang game...
 

Rie Sonomura

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Yeah, even with Fujishima's deals, it's kinda odd that Tales is the sole Smash 4 Mii series to not receive any sort of representation whatsoever. Doubly so when you consider how it's been saved for last, meaning that it's gone years while still remaining unrepresented when every other Smash 4 Mii has. It's entirely possible it doesn't have a fighter, but it's still an odd footnote in the SSBU cycle.

One theory I had back when the negotiations (Re: Chun-Lloyd, the only takeaway apparently) rumor is that either Nintendo or Bamco intentionally held back on a Tales rep to see how well Berseria and/or Vesperia DE did, to see how viable Velvet or Yuri would be. Of course, Lloyd is still entirely possible in this scenario, what with his legacy for the series.

And with that legacy... Hopefully we can get a Symphonia remake/remaster on the Switch. A lot of people have probably heard of Lloyd and are interested in his game, the Steam version is apparently inferior to the GC one, and my potato laptop can't even run it anyways. Might as well revamp it in the style of Berseria or Arise, too, since apparently it's starting to show it's age. C'mon, Bandai-Namco, just let me play the dang game...
Atm it seems the best version of Symphonia is the PS3 Chronicles which includes DOTNW, originally on Wii. Skip DOTNW tho

but PS3 Symphonia has content originally in the PS2 version of Symphonia which released after the GC version and was (at the time) Japan exclusive

the Steam version has that same content... then again it’s the Steam version soooooooo
 
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SharkLord

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Phantasia's sold into the millions with all the ports together. Not sure if it's that niche. I remember it scored pretty high in the rankings of the last Tales of Festival for Japan, but I can't seem to find it. Still, I'd imagine that slotting Cress into the roulette wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

More than anything, though, I'm just curious as to the thought process of the roulette. The Prince means it doesn't have to be from an arcade, Don-Chan allows the sprites to be non-pixelated, etc. I'm just curious as to the development behind that little taunt.
Alright, so I found the Tales of Festival poll
The Top 10 Best-Selling Tales of Games Worldwide, in Asia and Japan, North America and Europe - Abyssal Chronicles ver3 (Beta) - Tales of Series fansite
And surprisingly enough, Tales of Destiny actually sold really well too, even reaching the Top 3 worldwide. Keep in mind that out of the 1,720K sales total, 1,630K of those came from Japan, which makes it doubly impressive. Going back to the Namco Roulette, I think Stahn could've worked as a cameo as well as Cress.
 

Starlight Liger

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that’s what I said, missing the deadline does not mean they were meant to be part of it, it means he finished it before he knew about them
That's not true, Sakurai has gone on record to say that he sometimes develops a character for Smash Bros before their game of origin is released. Greninja and Incineroar are the most notable examples of that. Sometimes a character inclusion is entirely dictated by timing.
 

fogbadge

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That's not true, Sakurai has gone on record to say that he sometimes develops a character for Smash Bros before their game of origin is released. Greninja and Incineroar are the most notable examples of that. Sometimes a character inclusion is entirely dictated by timing.
which proves he wasn’t in on the development of those two games. If he had the same kind of access to those games then they probably would have been in the base game
 
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Pacack

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Something about AtGames nabbing the rights to Ms. PAC-MAN’s games from Bamco. It’s why she’s not a PAC-MAN alt or even Spirit.
I have never heard of them. Who are AtGames?
I’m sure I read somewhere that all rights to the character were given to NB ages ago
I'm late in replying to this, but the situation here is a bit complicated.

So, I'm sure that many of you here know that Ms. Pac-Man was developed by a group of MIT students and then sold to Midway, way back when. Those students became a company called General Computer Corporation (GCC). After a lawsuit, GCC reached an settlement in 1983 with Midway and Namco to receive royalty rights any time that the game itself was sold or Ms. Pac-Man was used in merchandise. Namco then terminates its licensing deal with Midway in 1984, reportedly over unauthorized Pac-Man sequels (which, I should note, included things like Professor Pac-Man and Baby Pac-Man, but not Ms. Pac-Man itself).

Fast forward a little bit to 2002, and one of the GCC members saw a Ms. Pac-Man/Galaga arcade game in the wild and was caught off guard, since he expected to hear something about royalties. Turns out, Namco was under the impression that it no longer had to abide by the agreement reached in 1983 because they terminated their relationship with Midway, who was supposed to deal with all the royalty payments that GCC received.

That means that Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures, Pac-Man World, Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness, Pac-Man: Adventures in Time, Ms. Pac-Man: Quest for the Golden Maze, Pac-Man All Stars, Pac-Man Fever, Pac-Man World 2, Pac 'n Roll, Pac-Man World 3, and Pac-Man World Rally were likely all done without GCC knowing. It also means that any merchandise with Ms. Pac-Man produced since then had royalty payments unpaid to GCC.

Namco (now Bandai Namco) entered into a new agreement with GCC in 2008, roughly the same time that Ms. Pac-Man stops appearing in a lot of games. We aren't privy to the exact details of this agreement, but we do know that Bandai Namco did not resolve all of the issues regarding royalty rights through this agreement.

Namco at this point is negotiating with the GCC people to finally completely resolve the royalty rights thing. They're on the brink of finally getting an agreement done when, out of nowhere, another company buys the royalty rights from GCC. This company, AtGames, makes microconsoles and was being sued by Bandai Namco for unrelated reasons. Namco is furious, and takes them to court over that as well.

This is some massive drama, but the case is ultimately dismissed on October 27, 2020 at Bandai Namco's request following a settlement reached out of court. The judge simply stated that "all involved parties have resolved the case of their own accord."

The terms of the agreement were not made public, so it's unclear if AtGames still has the royalty rights that it bought from GCC or if Bandai Namco made a deal with them that gave them full control over Ms. Pac-Man (finally.) At this point, it's pure speculation, but some promising news is that Arcade1UP recently released a Ms. Pac-Man mini arcade, which could indicate that things were resolved.
 

fogbadge

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I'm late in replying to this, but the situation here is a bit complicated.

So, I'm sure that many of you here know that Ms. Pac-Man was developed by a group of MIT students and then sold to Midway, way back when. Those students became a company called General Computer Corporation (GCC). After a lawsuit, GCC reached an settlement in 1983 with Midway and Namco to receive royalty rights any time that the game itself was sold or Ms. Pac-Man was used in merchandise. Namco then terminates its licensing deal with Midway in 1984, reportedly over unauthorized Pac-Man sequels (which, I should note, included things like Professor Pac-Man and Baby Pac-Man, but not Ms. Pac-Man itself).

Fast forward a little bit to 2002, and one of the GCC members saw a Ms. Pac-Man/Galaga arcade game in the wild and was caught off guard, since he expected to hear something about royalties. Turns out, Namco was under the impression that it no longer had to abide by the agreement reached in 1983 because they terminated their relationship with Midway, who was supposed to deal with all the royalty payments that GCC received.

That means that Pac-Man 2: The New Adventures, Pac-Man World, Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness, Pac-Man: Adventures in Time, Ms. Pac-Man: Quest for the Golden Maze, Pac-Man All Stars, Pac-Man Fever, Pac-Man World 2, Pac 'n Roll, Pac-Man World 3, and Pac-Man World Rally were likely all done without GCC knowing. It also means that any merchandise with Ms. Pac-Man produced since then had royalty payments unpaid to GCC.

Namco (now Bandai Namco) entered into a new agreement with GCC in 2008, roughly the same time that Ms. Pac-Man stops appearing in a lot of games. We aren't privy to the exact details of this agreement, but we do know that Bandai Namco did not resolve all of the issues regarding royalty rights through this agreement.

Namco at this point is negotiating with the GCC people to finally completely resolve the royalty rights thing. They're on the brink of finally getting an agreement done when, out of nowhere, another company buys the royalty rights from GCC. This company, AtGames, makes microconsoles and was being sued by Bandai Namco for unrelated reasons. Namco is furious, and takes them to court over that as well.

This is some massive drama, but the case is ultimately dismissed on October 27, 2020 at Bandai Namco's request following a settlement reached out of court. The judge simply stated that "all involved parties have resolved the case of their own accord."

The terms of the agreement were not made public, so it's unclear if AtGames still has the royalty rights that it bought from GCC or if Bandai Namco made a deal with them that gave them full control over Ms. Pac-Man (finally.) At this point, it's pure speculation, but some promising news is that Arcade1UP recently released a Ms. Pac-Man mini arcade, which could indicate that things were resolved.
now that is interesting. i must have only heard about the 3rd part. im surprised namco let them have anything
 

Commander_Alph

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Come to think of it, I’m a bit disappointed that the only NAMCO spirits we have are:
  • :ultpacman:’s Fighter Spirit
  • Ghosts
  • TURN-TO-BLUE
  • Bonus Fruit
  • Mother Fairy
  • Boss Galaga
Would be cool if they add more from the Pac-Man 99 game

Although idk why they didn't include the rest of the Pac family, maybe they have the same issue with Mrs. Pac-Man? Tho so far only her is off the chain.
 
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chocolatejr9

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Would be cool if they add more from the Pac-Man 99 game

Although idk why they didn't include the rest of the Pac family, maybe they have the same issue with Mrs. Pac-Man? Tho so far only her is off the chain.
No, they've acknowledged the other Pacs before, like in the Minecraft thing.
 

ninjahmos

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Hey guys, I just had a pretty crazy thought. What if we had some Point Blank or Time Crisis representation for Smash?
You’re probably right. I think Bandai Namco light gun games' best bet for Smash representation would be Spirits. Heck, ANY light gun games would probably be Spirits in Smash. I couldn’t, for the life of me, think of what sort of moveset a light gun character would have. Then again, Duck Hunt is in Smash.
If Time Crisis were to get SOME representation in Smash, in any way, shape or form, as unlikely as it seems...I’d honestly love to hear Smash remixes of these three themes:
 

DrifloonEmpire

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In regards to Lloyd's absence from the roulette, it is peculiar indeed. It could simply be that the developers may not have wanted to contact the copyright owner (forgot his name) for some reason or couldn't. But my conspiracy side tells me that Sakurai did not put Lloyd in there because he already knew he wanted Lloyd to be a playable character. I've said it before, but I'm a bit fishy on Lloyd's absence, even if there is a good chance that his costume had the bad luck of returning last. But between Sakurai saying that Lloyd would be the most fitting rep for Tales, plus Bamco working on the game, I have to wonder if they are saving Lloyd as a thank you to Bamco.

I know that Sakurai isn't choosing the characters, but think about it. "Nintendo chose the characters" is kind of vague. Maybe Nintendo would have wanted to thank Bamco themselves or maybe Sakurai could have suggested Lloyd since Tales is huge after all. I',m not exactly sure where I'm going with this to be honest, aside from explaining that I think Lloyd still has a solid chance.
Here's the thing, though, that decision was made way back in base game development before they even knew Pass #2 would be a thing. While Sakurai may have wanted to leave the door open, at the same time base game absences only affected chances for FP1. That was Porky's entire bread-and-butter in regards to speculation. So while the door could've been left open intentionally by Sakurai, one shouldn't assume that Lloyd/Tales is gonna be the next Namco pick.

Personally, I think Lloyd's mii's gonna come back with either Dragonborn or another Namco character who could be FP11 as a thank you to Namco.

I don't remember if I've explained this here before, but I believe that Lloyd is actually a surprisingly fitting pick for Dragonborn. Lloyd's game is semi-open world, just like the open-world Elder Scrolls. Tales of Symphonia had your followers run around with you on the overworld and interact with the environment. Skyrim added and greatly expanded upon followers (which were few and limited in Oblivion) and put a heavy emphasis on them, especially with Serana in the Dawnguard DLC. Finally, Lloyd dual-wields, and dual-wielding is one of Skyrim's big combat additions!
 
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