The General Bandai-Namco Discussion Thread

[Gnateb]

Here's the thing, though, that decision was made way back in base game development before they even knew Pass #2 would be a thing. While Sakurai may have wanted to leave the door open, at the same time base game absences only affected chances for FP1. That was Porky's entire bread-and-butter in regards to speculation. So while the door could've been left open intentionally by Sakurai, one shouldn't assume that Lloyd/Tales is gonna be the next Namco pick.

Personally, I think Lloyd's mii's gonna come back with either Dragonborn or another Namco character who could be FP11 as a thank you to Namco.

I don't remember if I've explained this here before, but I believe that Lloyd is actually a surprisingly fitting pick for Dragonborn. Lloyd's game is semi-open world, just like the open-world Elder Scrolls. Tales of Symphonia had your followers run around with you on the overworld and interact with the environment. Skyrim added and greatly expanded upon followers (which were few and limited in Oblivion) and put a heavy emphasis on them, especially with Serana in the Dawnguard DLC. Finally, Lloyd dual-wields, and dual-wielding is one of Skyrim's big combat additions!

For me, it's mainly Dragonborn, or Chosen Undead from Dark Souls if no Tales character is added.

Lloyd and the Chosen Undead are both:

• Bandai Namco properties
• from action based RPGs
• playable protagonists
• (most often) sword wielders
• with exploration aspects

The weapon customizability in Dark Souls allows for unique dual wielding loadouts, but that's of course up to the player.

I think I've said this before, but just thought I'd reiterate it here.

 

[Ornl]

There is the possibility that Lloyd Costume was originally (and ideally?) planned with Pyra/Mythra. This wouldn't have happened because Capcom needed a "right here right now" promotion on schedule. Nintendo would then have been conscientious by replying: "Okay, Lloyd will come later".

 

[Michael the Spikester]

In general the Lloyd Mii could come back with any swordfighter which is why I'm expecting one of the last two fighters to be one of those whether Adol Christin, Chosen Undead, Dovahkiin, Euden, Nightmare, or Yuri.

That or a Namco character in general.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In general the Lloyd Mii could come back with any swordfighter which is why I'm expecting one of the last two fighters to be one of those whether Adol Christin, Chosen Undead, Dovahkiin, Euden, Nightmare, or Yuri.

That or a Namco character in general.

There’s always a chance it could just be unceremoniously dropped out of the blue like how it originally was back in 4, ergo, without a character

ngl it would suck if that was the case tho, released with little fanfare again

 

[fogbadge]

There’s always a chance it could just be unceremoniously dropped out of the blue like how it originally was back in 4, ergo, without a character

ngl it would suck if that was the case tho, released with little fanfare again

or it could have been unceremoniously dropped from the game all together

 

[Twilord]

Since we already have a Xeno-Rep and only have two slots left, I suppose my dream scenario for their second rep is Agumon... we've already got a character who represents Namco's big break-out gaming icon so now its probably time to cover Bandai's biggest contribution to the industry; V-Pets!

I do wonder if Pokémon knew it was taking a shot at Digimon when they added V-Pet elements in Yellow. Digimon hadn't expanded to more traditional hardware yet, let alone gone multimedia and gotten an anime.

The thing that does make me wonder is this old quote from Miyamoto who we know was friends with the creator of Pokémon.

When we were stuck on talk of the spectacular 3D graphics of Mario 64 and racing games, we saw a huge hit in the form of [Bandai's] Tamagotchi — a tiny key chain boasting pictures made up of no more than 10 or 20 dots. At that time, I thought that Mario 64 had lost to Tamagotchi. [laughs. Miyamoto quickly adds in English: "I'm serious."]
—Shigeru Miyamoto[21]

Given that this seems to have lead to the type of thinking which would get us the Wii/DS era, it seems to me like they might actually have been keenly aware of that scene. If that is the case the influence that Tamagotchi and Digimon have had on the industry quickly and quietly becomes somewhat absurd.

-------------------------------

Digimon is in a weird position where it is the only franchise that can really rep the V-Pet genre in Smash Bros without it being entirely anti-thetical to the genre. Tamagotchi, Chao Garden, Nintendogs; they're not really suitable to act as fighters - Digimon are to the point where they've had fighting game spin-offs before.

The only real argument I've seen that was specifically against them boils down to "characters in Smash Bros aren't allowed to have animes which are that good, Digimon's unusually well done anime interpretation and subsequent dub had too big an impact on anime for it to considered just a game franchise". Even then, that is such a flawed argument that it somehow currently applies more to Castlevania (being one of Netflix's big name anime and having no new games in half-a-decade) and than it does to modern Digimon which is definitely leading with V-Pet and console video-games.

There is of course tight competition even within Bandai Namco; and aesthetically Chosen Undead, Lloyd, or a Soul Calibur rep would definitely fit in more with Pyra/Mythra, Sephiroth, Byleth, and Hero. But the good arguments for them are only arguments against a Digimon via their unfortunate competition for a slot.

Personally I'd kinda love to see KOS-MOS, since Xenosaga VS Xenoblade being in Smash Bros together would, for my specific niche audience, be almost as epic a crossover as Pokémon VS Digimon but with the distinct additional boon of increasing the odds of Xenosaga on Switch.

-------------------------------

BUT that leads to the fun question - how do you represent a Digimon in Smash Bros?

Well there are a lot of ways but one idea I'm really fond of is the idea of a gimmick of two parts. There are thee major things about Digimon which were born of its V-Pet origins, and which it carries with it to this day in a lot of its media.

• Branching Evolutions
• Bond Of Care
• Meaningful Consequences

That is why my idea (I'm sure Sakurai can do something better) would be that Agumon could evolve into one of five Digimon. Sorta like Monado-Arts but with half a super-mushroom and a reskin. They would possibly also have a slight changes to their neutral B, in order to give them all different breath weapons.

He'd be able to digivolve into Greymon, Geogreymon, Growlmon, Tyrannomon, and Coredramon. Coredramon would be the weakest of these by far, but would allow him to multi-jump.

Greymon - Agumon's traditional evolution
Geogreymon - a popular variant evolution for Agumon
Growlmon - probably the most popular champion Digimon in the Dragon's Roar family who doesn't have Greymon in their name
Tyranomon - the first Digimon ever designed and a rival to Greymon
Coredramon - we can't have this many Dragon's Roar Digimon in one group without having a single "dramon"; they're the Digimon equivalent to actual dragons. Coredramon are the in-lore prototypical dramon.

BUT Monado Arts is probably the best ability in the game; so this better version needs a BIG drawback.




This would be where the Bond of Care and the Meaningful Consequences come in.

You can digivolve at any time; but being digivolved over time drains your Digivolution Gauge (alternatively 'Memory Gauge' - a sly reference to the card game). When you're Agumon this gauge recharges over time, but with giving or taking damage speeding that up. When the gauge is empty you'll de-digivolve... but not to Agumon.

In V-Pets, when you fail they die and you have to start over from your weakest form. In Agumon's case, that is usually Botamon - BUT in this case the penalty of your extreme negligence will be dialed back, and you'll simply devolve to Koromon - the form in between Agumon and Botamon. Koromon's move-pool would be far more limited and weaker; and they'd be the lightest character in the game.




This of course means getting bigger when you digivolved wasn't necessarily such a good thing. Afterall it means easier to combo which can be exploited by a clever opponent to stop you de-digivolving into Agumon, which means forcing you to de-digivolve further into Koromon. This presents a risk-reward mechanic worthy of the power granted by digivolution.


-------

Also can you imagine getting Legendary Trainer (from Legends Arceus) and Digimon Tamer as the last characters in a double reveal? It would actually make a Pokémon reveal in the last two feel surprisingly cool!

 

[fogbadge]

they're not really suitable to act as fighters

that argument died a very long time ago

 

[Twilord]

that argument died a very long time ago

In most cases I'd agree - BUT Nintendogs are a huge property/moment in history and are still (understandably) just an Assist Trophy. I feel like in order for a third party rep to overcome that barrier they'd therefore need to naturally soar over it.

 

[PublicServant]

Here's a Wild (hehe) Card Bamco character suggestion that I'm going to throw into this thread for the heck of it:

Spoiler: A bunch of annoying little flies

https://timecrisispedia.fandom.com/wiki/Wild_Dog

 

[Gengar84]

I just had a crazy thought that is probably never going to happen. How would everyone feel if we ended up getting Zaveid over any of the main characters of Tales? While he isn’t a main protagonist, Zaveid is the only character I’m aware of to play a major role in two Tales games (other than direct sequels where the whole cast returns). I think that at least gives him some advantage over the other side characters. I loved Zaveid and I think he could make for a really fun Smash character. I don’t think he’s very likely, but it’s fun to think about.

 

[Twilord]

What if we get a literal Bandai Namco character.

Lili from Tekken and her Digimon Partner Numamon.

That is legitimately a thing in the Digimon Multiverse; she is a Tamer.


-----

The sheer goldmine of the resultant fanworks where she is crushing on Leaf and trying to make Leaf start fighting alongside her Mon would be too funny.

 

[fogbadge]

I just had a crazy thought that is probably never going to happen. How would everyone feel if we ended up getting Zaveid over any of the main characters of Tales? While he isn’t a main protagonist, Zaveid is the only character I’m aware of to play a major role in two Tales games (other than direct sequels where the whole cast returns). I think that at least gives him some advantage over the other side characters. I loved Zaveid and I think he could make for a really fun Smash character. I don’t think he’s very likely, but it’s fun to think about.

View attachment 317766

xemnas? what happened to you?

Lili from Tekken and her Digimon Partner Numamon.

if out of all the digimon we end up with numamon i will never let anyone hear the end of it

 

[Gengar84]

xemnas? what happened to you?



if out of all the digimon we end up with numamon i will never let anyone hear the end of it

He got buff and gained a sense of humor.

 

[fogbadge]

He got buff and gained a sense of humor.

how terrible for him

 

[Gengar84]

how terrible for him

Seriously though, I love both Xemnas and Zaveid and I’d be really hyped if either got in, as unlikely as they both are.

 

[volbound1700]

I voted for Dig-Dug because I love the classical games and would love to see him in with a very unique moveset. However, I think Lloyd, Yuri, or KOS-MOS are more likely and probably better options for Nintendo to include.

 

[fogbadge]

Seriously though, I love both Xemnas and Zaveid and I’d be really hyped if either got in, as unlikely as they both are.

was he designed by normua as well?

 

[Gengar84]

was he designed by normua as well?

I’m pretty sure he wasn’t but you’d think so wouldn’t you? He definitely looks like a character Nomura would design.

 

[fogbadge]

I’m pretty sure he wasn’t but you’d think so wouldn’t you? He definitely looks like a character Nomura would design.

normuas designs do tend to double up

 

[Twilord]

if out of all the digimon we end up with numamon i will never let anyone hear the end of it

Nor should you, to be fair.




Also weird question - if we get a double reveal of Legendary Trainer and a Digimon, and they take the approach of making him a trainer and who becomes a Tamer in the course of the narrative...

Should they make his Digivice be the original V-Pet which started it all, or make it the later original Digivice that the anime was advertising. The original Digivice is a heavily associated with the anime which I don't think would be the best idea, BUT it also operated off a pedometer sorta like the later PokéWalker which was from Pokémon's fourth generation just like Sinnoh is.

 

[Gengar84]

I just wanted to confirm that Ogremon/Ogremon X pretty much no chance and it would almost definitely be Agumon instead right? Ogremon has always been my favorite but I have no idea how popular it actually is.

 

[Twilord]

I just wanted to confirm that Ogremon/Ogremon X pretty much no chance and it would almost definitely be Agumon instead right? Ogremon has always been my favorite but I have no idea how popular it actually is.

View attachment 317793

Yeah sorry; Ogremon is sorta like - actually Gengar is a good comparison. A really popular one from the early days but never quite mascot tier.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah sorry; Ogremon is sorta like - actually Gengar is a good comparison. A really popular one from the early days but never quite mascot tier.

That explains a lot lol. I knew there had to be a reason I liked Ogremon so much. I’m glad to hear it’s at least popular. Maybe if Digimon ever got more characters.

 

[Twilord]

That explains a lot lol. I knew there had to be a reason I liked Ogremon so much. I’m glad to hear it’s at least popular. Maybe if Digimon ever got more characters.

Their best shot would be if Smash took my idea of having Rookie Digimon each have multiple "echo digivolution" options, in which case it might feasibly get in if Smash Bros ever had three or four Digimon. That however would be a long way off since other Bandai series would need additions before Digimon even got its second.

 

[Gengar84]

Their best shot would be if Smash took my idea of having Rookie Digimon each have multiple "echo digivolution" options, in which case it might feasibly get in if Smash Bros ever had three or four Digimon. That however would be a long way off since other Bandai series would need additions before Digimon even got its second.

So it’s at least sounding like Ogremon would have had a good shot if Digimon was first party and had as many characters as Pokémon. That’s better than I was expecting at least. Worst case scenario, Namco someday makes a high quality model of Ogremon in another game that I can eventually try to mod into Smash over DK or Ridley.

 

[fogbadge]

i think while ogremon is legit ogremon x is not

 

[Gengar84]

i think while ogremon is legit ogremon x is not

I would think if one ever got in, the other would just be an alternate outfit. I think both are really cool. Ogremon X kind of reminds me of a cross between Obstagoon and Venom. I actually had no idea Ogremon X even existed until last week.

I wonder which was created first between Obstagoon and Ogremon X. They definitely look like they used the same inspiration for their designs (likely Gene Simmons of Kiss).

 

[fogbadge]

I would think if one ever got in, the other would just be an alternate outfit. I think both are really cool. Ogremon X kind of reminds me of a cross between Obstagoon and Venom. I actually had no idea Ogremon X even existed until last week.

I wonder which was created first between Obstagoon and Ogremon X. They definitely look like they used the same inspiration for their designs (likely Gene Simmons of Kiss).

View attachment 317801

mid ogremon x debutedoutside a video game he can’t happen

 

[Twilord]

So it’s at least sounding like Ogremon would have had a good shot if Digimon was first party and had as many characters as Pokémon. That’s better than I was expecting at least. Worst case scenario, Namco someday makes a high quality model of Ogremon in another game that I can eventually try to mod into Smash over DK or Ridley.

One of the things that would work to their advantage in my concept is that they actually have a body shape that does sorta lend themselves to that kind of a brawler like DK fused with Little Mac, and a single unique projectile each.


I've been overthinking my idea a lot lately trying to figure out whose model I could adjust to fit with the other three big ones to work for this little guy. I've been kind tempted to go with Ogremon. Could make a fun and slightly unnerving contrast with how oversized the rest of their arms are while still actually having his joints and hitboxes be in the same relative places...

Also fun fact if you're into modding stuff like that; Cyber Sleuth models, originally designed for the Vita, are (at least I believe) decently in line with what Melee looks for in terms of verts so it should be fine for that or Brawl; you'd just need to work out the texturing.

mid ogremon x debutedoutside a video game he can’t happen

Honestly with stuff like Lucario talking and Ash Greninja and that Advent Children stuff from Final Fantasy I'm genuinely not sure where the line is anymore. I'd try to lean as close to the source material as possible on Digimon but who knows with Sakurai.

The conspiracy theorist in me is half convinced he's added that stuff because it softens the line so Digimon can't accidentally be the one to break the rules.

 

[Gengar84]

mid ogremon x debutedoutside a video game he can’t happen

I don’t think that would really affect an alternate outfit. Cloud has his Advent Children costume as an alt.

As far as modding goes, I used to be really into it almost 10 years ago and made a ton of Brawl mods. Most of those were just model edits called vertex editing. I never actually learned how to rig a skeleton so I needed people to help with that part when I started making completely custom models towards the end. I’d love to give modding another shot someday for Ultimate. I actually already helped someone port Ogremon over DK in Brawl (at my request) so that’s already done.

 

[Twilord]

I actually already helped someone port Ogremon over DK in Brawl (at my request) so that’s already done.

Oh nice; I would love to see that! Was this a recent thing or?

I wonder which was created first between Obstagoon and Ogremon X. They definitely look like they used the same inspiration for their designs (likely Gene Simmons of Kiss).

Obstagoon was revealed the day before Ogremon X was added to The Official Digimon Field Guide.


Sometimes I could swear Pokémon and Digimon are quantum entangled.

 

[Gengar84]

Oh nice; I would love to see that! Was this a recent thing or?

No, I think it was somewhere around 8 years ago. Maybe a little longer. A modder by the name of DSX8 did most of the work, I just helped position the model over DK’s skeleton.

 

[Twilord]

No, I think it was somewhere around 8 years ago. Maybe a little longer. A modder by the name of DSX8 did most of the work, I just helped position the model over DK’s skeleton.

Ah right. Cool cool...

Did you see the edit I made to my post? I answered a question you asked.

 

[Gengar84]

Ah right. Cool cool...

Did you see the edit I made to my post? I answered a question you asked.

Yeah thanks . That’s a crazy coincidence. Personally, I think Ogremon X is a better design than Obstagoon but they’re both pretty cool. Obstagoon is somehow both really cool and really dumb at the same time.

Im not sure if DSX8 ever publically released the Ogremon mod or just gave it to me since I asked for it personally. I can’t find it anywhere online but I still have the file somewhere on my PC.

 

[fogbadge]

One of the things that would work to their advantage in my concept is that they actually have a body shape that does sorta lend themselves to that kind of a brawler like DK fused with Little Mac, and a single unique projectile each.


I've been overthinking my idea a lot lately trying to figure out whose model I could adjust to fit with the other three big ones to work for this little guy. I've been kind tempted to go with Ogremon. Could make a fun and slightly unnerving contrast with how oversized the rest of their arms are while still actually having his joints and hitboxes be in the same relative places...

Also fun fact if you're into modding stuff like that; Cyber Sleuth models, originally designed for the Vita, are (at least I believe) decently in line with what Melee looks for in terms of verts so it should be fine for that or Brawl; you'd just need to work out the texturing.







Honestly with stuff like Lucario talking and Ash Greninja and that Advent Children stuff from Final Fantasy I'm genuinely not sure where the line is anymore. I'd try to lean as close to the source material as possible on Digimon but who knows with Sakurai.

The conspiracy theorist in me is half convinced he's added that stuff because it softens the line so Digimon can't accidentally be the one to break the rules.

I don’t think that would really affect an alternate outfit. Cloud has his Advent Children costume as an alt.

As far as modding goes, I used to be really into it almost 10 years ago and made a ton of Brawl mods. Most of those were just model edits called vertex editing. I never actually learned how to rig a skeleton so I needed people to help with that part when I started making completely custom models towards the end. I’d love to give modding another shot someday for Ultimate. I actually already helped someone port Ogremon over DK in Brawl (at my request) so that’s already done.

Well what you’ve got to remember is that each one is a different case. Pokemon is a first party franchise and probably gets a bit more leeway also game freak and TPC may be a bit more controlling with how Pokemon appear. Also it’s not always clear if something was made for the games first of the anime first even if it is based on an anime character. In the case of advent children it’s probably allowed because it’s set in the same cannon not to mention the film was made by and entirely owned by SE. Where as with digimon I believe a number of anime original things are co owned by toei animation which would make them significantly harder to use than the other two.

 

[Twilord]

Well what you’ve got to remember is that each one is a different case. Pokemon is a first party franchise and probably gets a bit more leeway also game freak and TPC may be a bit more controlling with how Pokemon appear. Also it’s not always clear if something was made for the games first of the anime first even if it is based on an anime character. In the case of advent children it’s probably allowed because it’s set in the same cannon not to mention the film was made by and entirely owned by SE. Where as with digimon I believe a number of anime original things are co owned by toei animation which would make them significantly harder to use than the other two.

Fantastic point!

Honestly I think its ideal that they lean into the game media as much as possible (of course) but... hopefully Butterfly is fair game. xD




Silly question BUT if Agumon joins the battle in a double reveal where he become the partner of the character who joins immediately before him, who would be the most epic Tamer for Agumon?

 

[fogbadge]

Fantastic point!

Honestly I think its ideal that they lean into the game media as much as possible (of course) but... hopefully Butterfly is fair game. xD

i think butterfly was written by a pop star so probably not. they only bother with the pikmin songs by a pop group the once

 

[Twilord]

i think butterfly was written by a pop star so probably not. they only bother with the pikmin songs by a pop group the once

Ah so it would at best be instrumental like Bayonetta's vocal songs?

 

[fogbadge]

Ah so it would at best be instrumental like Bayonetta's vocal songs?

i know nothing about her stuff so i cant make a comparison

 

[Twilord]

So... I'm trying to tone down my hopefulness to avoid being disappointed... would people mind telling me their best argument against Digimon?