Social The Ganonic Grimoire - Kongregation of Kings

[Breadloaf]

So how do you guys feel about Dragmire being so low on the tier lists the devs didnt even bother finishing his character model.

 

[Slack is Love]

Ok guys, I now actually sincerely believe I need to find tournaments in downtown Los Angeles. The competitive spirit within me has rekindled. I know there are people out there that are better than me, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been constantly improving. Should there be an opportunity, I will try to attend a tournament, and I will legitimately aim to win going Ganondorf only. I now believe I am currently good enough to be a tournament threat and have fair games with other high level players.

Yes I'm aware it's shameless self promotion, but as with anything I experience, intend to translate it into useful information.

Go for it man, you can only improve more by fighting the best. Hopefully you can show up on some kind of stream and do Ganon mains proud.

 

[_Magus_]

Yeah. Generally speaking 8pm or later on weekends for me is preferable.

Same for me. Can't wait to play ya dude.

 

[Ekans647]

So how do you guys play in the neutral with Ganondorf? Do you approach or force you opponent to? Ganondorf seems like a defence character so I want to learn how to capitalize on that, but I have problems dealing with his short range.

Ok guys, I now actually sincerely believe I need to find tournaments in downtown Los Angeles. The competitive spirit within me has rekindled. I know there are people out there that are better than me, but that doesn't mean that I haven't been constantly improving. Should there be an opportunity, I will try to attend a tournament, and I will legitimately aim to win going Ganondorf only. I now believe I am currently good enough to be a tournament threat and have fair games with other high level players.

Yes I'm aware it's shameless self promotion, but as with anything I experience, intend to translate it into useful information.

Good luck! I've like to see your matches.

 

[MagiusNecros]

This is the greatest thing I've ever seen.

http://zippy.gfycat.com/DependentEarlyBlowfish.webm

 

[A2ZOMG]

So how do you guys play in the neutral with Ganondorf? Do you approach or force you opponent to? Ganondorf seems like a defence character so I want to learn how to capitalize on that, but I have problems dealing with his short range.

Ganondorf is one of those characters whose presence in neutral is often more defined by what his opponent does. When I play neutral as Ganondorf, my goal is to watch for habits from my opponent. I try to carefully get in range to use D-tilts, DAs, and N-airs, and observe how my opponent responds to those.

Part of playing Ganondorf that's really important is both avoiding taking unnecessary damage, but at the same time not being afraid to take risks to establish an offensive rhythm. You WILL get punished for a lot of things as playing Ganondorf, but make sure that you're not getting punished pointlessly. Your goal is to find out what things your opponent tries to play carefully around and adapt on the go to keep your opponent confused, and eventually afraid of what you can do.

Mechanically, one of the most difficult things to do as Ganondorf overall is learning to space his aerials correctly. All of his aerial attacks are amazingly good, but need to be spaced very well. Usually my go to aerial is N-air, which is fast, has great range, a lingering hitbox, and can setup combos/juggles. Being able to space B-air on demand is also very important. It's Ganondorf's most powerful aerial overall, and by itself can be very gamechanging when spaced correctly. And then of course, knowing how to juggle and edgeguard with all of Ganondorf's aerials is important, because that is where many of your KOs should come from.

Usually, a lot of games for me are a mental arms race of sorts where I teach my opponent that they absolutely need to block against DA and Wizkick, and then sneak my way in with Flame Chokes and Grabs when I get the sense they are afraid of fighting back. I typically am very aggressive about putting people offstage and making sure they don't come back. Ganondorf is the most lethal edgeguarder in the game overall, and this should be abused given he is able to end stocks in situations no other character would be able to.

Ganondorf in my view is both easy and extremely difficult to play. He's easy to play in the sense that all of his moves have clear, well defined purposes and in their own way can easily cover a lot of options. Difficult in the sense that you constantly have to think on your feet and be ready to adjust on the fly, and remain calm when the pressure is high.

In my personal opinion, the best Ganondorf players to learn from (that have videos) are Gungnir (I've put a bunch of his matches on my youtube), @Z1GMA, and @ Vermanubis . By the way, no offense @ Ray_Kalm because you're definitely one of the best Ganondorf players by far, but I believe your style can be really dangerous to emulate (which may be precisely why it's so absolutely terrifying).

 

[Ekans647]

Ganondorf is one of those characters whose presence in neutral is often more defined by what his opponent does. When I play neutral as Ganondorf, my goal is to watch for habits from my opponent. I try to carefully get in range to use D-tilts, DAs, and N-airs, and observe how my opponent responds to those.

Part of playing Ganondorf that's really important is both avoiding taking unnecessary damage, but at the same time not being afraid to take risks to establish an offensive rhythm. You WILL get punished for a lot of things as playing Ganondorf, but make sure that you're not getting punished pointlessly. Your goal is to find out what things your opponent tries to play carefully around and adapt on the go to keep your opponent confused, and eventually afraid of what you can do.

Mechanically, one of the most difficult things to do as Ganondorf overall is learning to space his aerials correctly. All of his aerial attacks are amazingly good, but need to be spaced very well. Usually my go to aerial is N-air, which is fast, has great range, a lingering hitbox, and can setup combos/juggles. Being able to space B-air on demand is also very important. It's Ganondorf's most powerful aerial overall, and by itself can be very gamechanging when spaced correctly. And then of course, knowing how to juggle and edgeguard with all of Ganondorf's aerials is important, because that is where many of your KOs should come from.

Usually, a lot of games for me are a mental arms race of sorts where I teach my opponent that they absolutely need to block against DA and Wizkick, and then sneak my way in with Flame Chokes and Grabs when I get the sense they are afraid of fighting back. I typically am very aggressive about putting people offstage and making sure they don't come back. Ganondorf is the most lethal edgeguarder in the game overall, and this should be abused given he is able to end stocks in situations no other character would be able to.

Ganondorf in my view is both easy and extremely difficult to play. He's easy to play in the sense that all of his moves have clear, well defined purposes and in their own way can easily cover a lot of options. Difficult in the sense that you constantly have to think on your feet and be ready to adjust on the fly, and remain calm when the pressure is high.

In my personal opinion, the best Ganondorf players to learn from (that have videos) are Gungnir (I've put a bunch of his matches on my youtube), @Z1GMA, and @ Vermanubis . By the way, no offense @ Ray_Kalm because you're definitely one of the best Ganondorf players by far, but I believe your style can be really dangerous to emulate (which may be precisely why it's so absolutely terrifying).

So tech skill isn't the issue, but rather mind gaming is. Condition your opponents and then punish them for it right. Honestly, this mindset and level of mind gaming reminds me of Snake.

 

[Hi-Hatz]

I want to give some input on my own style of neutral game with Ganon. To me, there are two different aspects to your neutral game: the conscious and the subconscious. The conscious is everything you notice, try to react to, and try to option yourself into, but this particular piece of advice pertains to the subconscious, which is what your Ganon is doing outside of that (when you're outside of or nearing threat zone). If you were to simply stand still 100% of the time outside of your conscious choices, then you'd be giving your opponent that much less to think about when approaching you, and they'll settle into their own conscious game much better, but if you're dash dancing all the time, empty jumping, and (safely!) buffering Ganon's frighteningly rapid aerials and tilts as a part of your subconscious game, then this is going to keep them flustered and make their conscious neutral game that much more difficult to settle on, and you'll also be subconsciously bettering your own mobility. Your subconscious actions don't need to dictate how calm or aggro your conscious play-style is; the benefit of these actions is that you're affording no thought to them while your opponent on the other hand has to. At long range (the outermost region of their own threat zone), you don't want to keep any secrets about how scary Ganon can be. As you come in closer and transition into your conscious neutral, you want the opponent to feel the pressure mounting badly enough that it affects them. You're a moving wall of hit-boxes, and they're about to get crushed. If you can't legitimately induce brief moments of fear in your opponents play-style with Ganondorf, then you need to work toward that in the same way that you would need to learn how to shield or recover. Ganon is slow, but even he can move in a way that baits enemies into danger.

 

[Opana]

Well this is sad, I was at this site where I'd play Acid every now and then, Acid becoming quite a name at Xanadu using his Falcon, but he's leaving the site to pursue his offline tourney goals. I only beat him a handful of times out of many matches, but out if everyone I've played he has helped me improve the most(Although mirrors with you guys have been extremely helpful.). He destroyed me the majority of the time but we were starting to have some close matches. I likely won't get to play him again which saddens me but it's been pretty amazing having a chance to fight some pro players like Acid, Boss, and Dabuz not to mention the top dorfs here like Z1GMA and Vermanubis.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

The Ganondorf For Glory Tale:

After your first win, they IMMEDIATELY counter-pick Link (????????) and try to win by only shooting arrows. After your second win, they rage-quit.

700 For Glory games in, and that's 400 of them.

 

[Opana]

@ A2ZOMG , I believe we just played, although without my glasses I can barely make out what the text is.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, and those were some pretty good games. Always find it very interesting how Ganon players play very differently.

 

[Wintropy]

Talking to my brother, who mained Ganondorf back in Brawl, and he mentioned how he feels like he'll never have as close a connection to a character as he did to Ganondorf in Brawl. Says he can't get into Ganondorf in this game, that he feels too different and the connection just isn't there anymore. In spite of that, he wants to give Ganondorf another chance, and wants to see if he can still do what he used to do with him.

Any tips for a long-time Brawl veteran? It'd mean a lot to him to have experienced Ganondorf players give him advice and encouragement.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Talking to my brother, who mained Ganondorf back in Brawl, and he mentioned how he feels like he'll never have as close a connection to a character as he did to Ganondorf in Brawl. Says he can't get into Ganondorf in this game, that he feels too different and the connection just isn't there anymore. In spite of that, he wants to give Ganondorf another chance, and wants to see if he can still do what he used to do with him.

Any tips for a long-time Brawl veteran? It'd mean a lot to him to have experienced Ganondorf players give him advice and encouragement.

Stop trying to autocancel D-air, start abusing N-air instead and learn to love how amazing N-airplanes are. Actually all of Ganon's aerials are better and have less landing lag. Also go HAM when edgeguarding in this game because nobody will edgehog you for trying.

Also even though Flame Choke is techable, it's a lot better this game because it does more damage, and nerfs to spotdodge make it much more reliable in neutral against people who play really defensively. Don't overuse it, but just remember that catching people with their pants down with it is actually a lot better now.

Pivot F-tilt and U-smash are also good replacements for D-air when you need a conservative but powerful punish for predicted approaches.

Honestly aside from that, Ganondorf isn't really much different from Brawl. Just a LITTLE faster, but other characters don't kill him as easily as before, while Ganondorf kept all his amazing damage and juggle/edgeguard potential.

 

[Opana]

Yeah, and those were some pretty good games. Always find it very interesting how Ganon players play very differently.

6
I thought so! Very ggs! I am definitely going to utilize both nair kicks more from now on; you played smarter than me imo. Like the Mario and gnw too, have played a few very tood Narios so zi had soime mu exp there although I've only ever played one competent gnw off AiB(Will always be aib to me lol). I tried being more aggressive with gnw as I felt it was important to keep on the pressure. I am still working on a new maneuver, ledge hop to wizkick under the stage to ledge recovery, although the one time I angled it right I time it wrong lol.

Also I know my Sheik is lame, picked them up Sunday. Otherwise I'm not too good with anyone else.

 

[A2ZOMG]

IMO Vs G&W you have to play really carefully before going in. He can punish Ganon's mistakes really hard, but fortunately he dies in like 5 hits. Basically you want to space really conservatively and wait for him to move before putting on the pressure. He has to respect Ganon's range and damage.

This was advice I gave to Gungnir as well. It's a very uncommon matchup that G&W by design does well in due to his edgeguarding and juggles.

Vs Mario I feel after Ganon buffs is one of Ganondorf's explicitly favorable matchups. Buffs to N-air actually make it noticeably harder for Mario to approach successfully, and even though Mario does have some threatening edgeguards, Ganondorf overall has more ways to secure the KO than the other way around, and landing an F-tilt in this matchup is pretty lethal considering Mario's relatively short recovery.

I have mediocre reaction time and I shy away from really technical things if I don't have to use them. Most of my playstyle is really defensive and based around covering common options conservatively, and then making reads once I'm more comfortable with my opponent. Though you seemed to adapt pretty quickly those games too. I definitely had some bad habits that I got exposed for.

 

[Opana]

Well you're a much better analyst than me, you give consistently valuable MU advice snd I'm very appreciative of it.

I kinda like fighting gnw due to the possible choke to dtilt and as you mentioned how frsgile he is.

Mario sometimes just gets to me, I mean I know our hits total his combo damage quickly but I guess I feel pressured. Other times I feel I lead very strong and try to maintain that, although I'm cautious of ganonciding due to the flag.

It really depends on how focus I am, if I sit closer I tend to react better nut my dog paws and claws me to sit in a seat where they can sit in my lap lol. I originally learned advanced tech to be flashy and show off lol, I think you noticed that early on, although now I like incorporating advanced techs and maneuvers for unusual mix ups. I like fast falling aerials into a range ehere I can barely recover as a sort of defense to go lower faster than my opponent although Acid punished this extremely hard lol. I try to uair gimp through recoverx like with gnw, with Mario I feel I must be safe though.

Anyway, I really enjoyed our games and you probably have the better dorf as I'm still sloppy. I like how you were cool with taunts but I had no idea enat yours said >_>. I'd have stayed but I needed to walk my dogs.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Taunts:
Up - Up you go!
Left - The plays!
Right - Had to be done!
Down - What...?

The most obnoxious part about writing my taunts is I had to space out the characters in a weird way to compensate for the fact that iirc the game automatically puts characters 9-16 on a separate line.

 

[Opana]

Ah, thanks lol.

I chose two taunts and ny bro vhosetwo, mine being That was planned and I have 16 kids(Kinda a joke as mu 3ds name was MOM lol). Bro''s were lol and Stay Salty, I use them all though.

Gungnir knows english?

 

[jahkzheng]

Taunts:
Up - Up you go!
Left - The plays!
Right - Had to be done!
Down - What...?

The most obnoxious part about writing my taunts is I had to space out the characters in a weird way to compensate for the fact that iirc the game automatically puts characters 9-16 on a separate line.

Seemed kind of silly to me that the max number of characters in a custom taunt message in Smash4 are shorter than they were in Brawl. A couple of my old Brawl messages were simply too long for Smash4. Haven't figured out what to put in. Part of the trouble is that I don't always use Ganon so messages specific to Ganon are a bit odd on other characters.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Hey guys in a tournament. Gotta find the proper twitch.

http://www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/mobile

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Currently fighting for 3rd place in doubles against Nakat and Meekspeedy's team as a Ganon and Lucario team.

 

[Opana]

Sounds intimidating, good luck.

 

[Vermanubis]

Hope you did well, Kalm.

As for me, I didn't perform as well as I'dve liked, but I got 3rd out of 45, losing to a Rosalina and Villager in Winners and Losers finals, who got 2nd and 1st respectively. Only thing I regret was, being my first Smash 4 tourney, I was unfamiliar with the stage list, and I forgot to ban Duck Hunt against Rosalina. So he was able to take advantage of the tree (which Ganon apparently has to up-b to to reach). Could've had the set, but lesson learned, I suppose.

The consolations, however, were:

-I was the first person in the region to beat Robotnik's Yoshi.
-I did a $15 MM with one of the Ganons here, Zerxion. The agreement was that whoever wins had to buy a big Ganon perler for the winner. Pictures to come!

 

[PSIBoy]

http://gfycat.com/RegalPowerlessAssassinbug#

LOL.

 

[MagiusNecros]

http://gfycat.com/RegalPowerlessAssassinbug#

LOL.

Posted this earlier but it's always great to see again.

 

[PSIBoy]

Posted this earlier but it's always great to see again.

You did? When?

 

[the king of murder]

You did? When?

Post #925

 

[PSIBoy]

Post #925

How the heck did I miss that?

 

[MagiusNecros]

How the heck did I miss that?

By missing it obviously.

 

[PSIBoy]

By missing it obviously.

Sorry about that.

 

[jahkzheng]

Hey guys in a tournament. Gotta find the proper twitch.

http://www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/mobile

Had an eye on this yesterday but the stream seemed to have started late and then they were already showing doubles semis in Brawl and Smash4. And they seemed to be more interested in focusing on Brawl. Was hoping to catch your matches but didn't have time to wait and based on the stream, I assumed I'd missed them anyways.

Currently fighting for 3rd place in doubles against Nakat and Meekspeedy's team as a Ganon and Lucario team.

See, I saw Nakat and Meekspeedy playing in semis but heard and saw no mention of your team. Sorry I missed it. Let us now if they get uploaded anywhere or the stream channel has the stream replayable somewhere.


@ Vermanubis - I'd like to see you matches as well if they're uploaded anywhere.

 

[Vermanubis]

Yeah, I think a few of 'em will be up soon, so I'll post them when they are!

Also, here's the Ganon perler I won:

 

[Opana]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZY5wrPw5nQ

found a use for dsmash lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PZY5wrPw5nQ

found a use for dsmash lol

I don't recall that working when I tried Cruel Smash on the Wii-U. I found ledge attacks and B-throw way safer...or sharking with Up-B/U-air.

 

[Opana]

I'll try it on there when I get the chance lol. They seem to stop for a brief moment when I get up from tbe ledge wbich is easy picking from there.

 

[the king of murder]

I just warlock punched a King DDD who recovered high with his up-b. The moment super armor activated I was like

 

[Ekans647]

I just warlock punched a King DDD who recovered high with his up-b. The moment super armor activated I was like

Landing a Warlock Punch is so satisfying, more so than Falcon Punch. Does Warlock Punch have heavy are or or super armor?

So what are the uses for dair? Is there and meteor smash setups that Ganadorf have?

 

[_Magus_]

I landed a reversed offstage Warlock Punch on @ A2ZOMG the other night. XD

We had some fun games. He whooped me pretty solidly, but I was able to take some stocks and even a game or two.

Landing a Warlock Punch is so satisfying, more so than Falcon Punch. Does Warlock Punch have heavy are or or super armor?

So what are the uses for dair? Is there and meteor smash setups that Ganadorf have?

Grounded Warlock Punch has super armor at the start. If you start it in the air you don't have super armor.

 

[Ekans647]

I landed a reversed offstage Warlock Punch on @ A2ZOMG the other night. XD

We had some fun games. He whooped me pretty solidly, but I was able to take some stocks and even a game or two.


Grounded Warlock Punch has super armor at the start. If you start it in the air you don't have super armor.

Wow. Now I know what I'm using in free for alls.