The Game & Watch Match-Up Thread - CURRENTLY DISCUSSING OLIMAR

[izzy24]

idk for falco if you stand close to the edges while crouching you take away a 8unch of his stuff: crouching will make his lasers miss, standing close to the edges will stop him from using side8, and also his cg is cut short. if he starts getting close to you keep him away with dtilt, fsmash or nair out of shield.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah as I said, this matchup isn't fun once they realize that their closeup/midrange game is stupid. And that they can punish a lot of your mistakes easily with huge ranged moves.

Also you don't really want to challenge his B-air directly if you can avoid it. **** move is basically disjointed and 4 frames startup.

I'm thinking our D-throw and juggle game makes this matchup winnable, so no worse than 6/4 Falco, but I definitely would rather fight a Snake than a Falco. Except CPing Falco to Brinstar is pretty **** since he just plainly sucks a lot there.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Lol Ruuku, you wanted Falco but where's the contribution at?

I'll make a start on the export today but we should really have more input.. Especially unlike last time with Toon Link, the Falco boards have NO G&W MU info. They are also working their match-up thread up from the bottom. We aren't top tier but it'll still take a while to get to us since they haven't reached the mid tiers yet.

I'm not accusing anyone of having made mistakes but I just want to remind you guys to correct each other if you spot something wrong. If you guys don't agree with something speak up, otherwise I'll assume you all agree. In case anyone is interested discussion only started on Page 8.

Anyway... Falco can only chain grab us until 37% and has to walk. Also, we can escape it is a certain special move is used - I'm not sure if its Bucket or Up-B or both, but someone please confirm this.

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[Splice]

I hope some real insightful Falco discussion happens in the export

I don't know the MU well and am keen for protips here

All I know is avoid grab and abuse platforms but dont get caught on them
and **** his recovery hard is easy for me now. but i cant really contribute more than that :C

 

[Makke]

.................

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

-Get the lead, just chill out. Use jumps and UpB a bunch

-Punish Phantasm, that moves is so easy to punish, so much so, that Falcos only use it in a good way, os make sure you can punish when you can

-Duck. 'nough said

-Don't bucket lasers if there's only half a stage or less inbetween you and Falco unless it's the third laser you're absorbing

-Take him to stages with platforms, and counter pick to Brinstar/Frigate/RC. Avoid SV/FD, also YI is a decent starter stage

 

[UTDZac]

My thoughts on falco...


Give up

 

[Makke]

Give up

..............

 

[UTDZac]

Analyze that a bit harder

 

[izzy24]

My thoughts on falco...


Give up

lolololol that's the spirit -______-

 

[SpeedyJ]

-Get the lead, just chill out. Use jumps and UpB a bunch

-Punish Phantasm, that moves is so easy to punish, so much so, that Falcos only use it in a good way, os make sure you can punish when you can

-Duck. 'nough said

-Don't bucket lasers if there's only half a stage or less inbetween you and Falco unless it's the third laser you're absorbing

-Take him to stages with platforms, and counter pick to Brinstar/Frigate/RC. Avoid SV/FD, also YI is a decent starter stage

Please expand on your first two points. Also, Yoshi's Island is a bad stage for us.

Analyze that a bit harder

The match-up is unwinnable. ;D

Back in the day it used to be advantage to us because G&W could just eat Falco's bread and fry some sausages and fish giving himself the sufficient energy he needs from a full meal to beat Falco. Now that Falco players have started taunting G&W keeps his hands off Falco's bread - therefor no longer has the sufficient amount of energy he needs to win the match-up!

 

[I Dair You]

Falco gets HALF the damage needed to KO GW with maximum chain grab and short hop dair(57%). From there Falco only needs to add on another 57% and GW's ready to be upsmashed at 114. GW's juggling with uptilt/nair at low damage are a must if he wants to contend with Falco's chain grabbing. Both characters are extremely light, but imo have horribly telegraphed KO moves. GW's KO moves are a little less punishable and easier to spam though.

 

[Splice]

My thoughts on falco...


Give up

Use Uair a lot?

Please tell me you're being cryptic

 

[SpeedyJ]

Falco gets HALF the damage needed to KO GW with maximum chain grab and short hop dair(57%). From there Falco only needs to add on another 57% and GW's ready to be upsmashed at 114. GW's juggling with uptilt/nair at low damage are a must if he wants to contend with Falco's chain grabbing. Both characters are extremely light, but imo have horribly telegraphed KO moves. GW's KO moves are a little less punishable and easier to spam though.

Thank you very much for your input. ^_^

Now ask some more Falcos to help lol. If you don't mind. xD

 

[DJ Arcatek]

I think the best way to describe the matchup is that Falco's jab clashes with G&W's 9 Hammer.


But no, really, it's not a fun matchup for G&W. I would suggest you guys simply duck under our lasers rather than try to bucket them, because then we could just still camp and you wouldn't have anything to do about it. If you DO choose to bucket it, though, make sure it isn't near the Falco. Since bucket has bad ending lag, you might take a CG at low percent or just a punish. Besides, the Bucket isn't even a one-hit KO move when you absorb our lasers, so whatever >__>

Jabs and CGs really **** game & watch (then again, those **** more than half the cast). Our reflector is super safe against G&W too since he really doesn't have a proper punish for it. That's assuming you space it correctly, of course.Point is, just try to chain as many Dthrows as you can and get an early kill on Falco. I believe your Usmash kills at like 80%, so utilize it. If the Falco ever gets a lead, you're practically done for. He's just gonna have a carnival day just camping you. Your Dair has more priority than our Uair, I believe, so don't be afraid to use it.

I would say ban FD against him and CP him to either Rainbow or Brinstar. I think Yoshi's Island is a good stage for G&W too. Pretty much any stage with platforms is good for G&W lol. Falco practically gets destroyed on Brinstar, so if they don't ban that... well, you know what to do.

6:4 Falco, imo.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Yoshi's Island!? Seriously? Maybe we should revise the G&W stage thread then lol.

 

[-Ominous-]

Nah, Yoshi's Island isn't really a good stage for G&W, but it's still probably worse for Falco.

I don't really know for sure though, I don't have any Falco experience...

 

[SpeedyJ]

What I meant was that according to the G&W stage thread, we are at a disadvantage when playing against Falco on Yoshi's Island.

 

[Host Change]

As G&W

-Only bucket if you are a good distance away, although if done successfully you can slow down Falco's laser which can be key
-Crouch and then the laser is very difficult to hit (Falco would have to grab the ledge and short hop laser off to connect, but in him doing this he would give up stage control)
-Use his uair a lot against Falco's dair. (This will shut down one of Falco's good moves while freshening up G&W's kill moves so that his kill moves are not stale)
-Try to space yourself better in the CG %'s keeping Falco from getting that initial grab

Falco

-Short hop reflector. Many Falcos don't use this move properly IMO, but if spaced correctly it can give G&W problems
-Jab. Falco's jab causes serious problems at times. Any experienced Falco knows this.
-Laser properly. A good Falco knows how.
-Shield grab is a good way to initiate the chain grab that is so devestating to G&W

Like DJ said ban FD. I second that Brinstar is not a Falco friendly map, so it's a good counterpick. As far as Rainbow Cruise its a disadvantage for Falcos in general, although I haven't had a problem there in the past. I haven't faced good G&W's there very many times so I could be wrong, but I would say Brinstar is the better counterpick.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Basically, if you're fighting Falco, you want to get a good lead (30-50%) and just stay away from him. On a stage like FD, you really just need to duck and be on the look out for his super fast moves, of course, he has to approach first. If he approaches with phantasm, you should laugh at him, because from the length you're out, you should be able to punish this well. And now to be more serious, this isn't gonna happen. DTilt is the best move to use against approaches (in my opinion) as it's speedy, covers the air a bit, and is very deceiving. UpB in this scenario is godsend because it's also fast and gets you out of a situation very quickly. If the stage has platforms, you want to stay on top and use a mix up of slow Dairs and fast Dairs and retreating bairs. Also, empty jumps help out as well.

Avoiding the chain grab in the beginning is a part of the whole, 'chill out' part of this MU. Remember, UpB is one of the best ways to avoid being grabbed, and should be mashed while being chain grab just in case you get lucky (don't count on this)

Basically, winning this matchup is pure patience and little to no fighting, which is preeeetty boring.

Also, on the YI note, no I'm not saying it's the greatest starter, but it's definitely not Falco friendly, moreso than it is for us.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Great, keep it coming guys! This is really fantastic.

And Yars, so better for us?

zzz so much debate over a starter... lol

 

[Ruuku]

Other than short hop air dodges to help approach, pretty much everything has been mentioned. I guess I should mention that I like using up throw and keep Falco above me a lot since he doesn't seem to have much that is threatening in that position.

As far as stages go, I tend to stay away from "plain" stages and go for the ones like BF, Frigate, Castle Siege, and yes even Yoshi's Island.

Lol Ruuku, you wanted Falco but where's the contribution at?

A lot of unexpected stuff is turning my summer into a busy one. >_<

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Better for us in the sense that it's worse for Falco. Middle platform stops lasers while tilting, bumpy terrain can (note, can) mess up CGs, and with the slant, ducking lasers has become even easier.

I wouldn't say make it your definitive stage against Falco, but y'know, if it's that stage and you were high and didn't strike FD or something, you can opt to go there.

Also, being below Falco is a good opportunity to attack him so long as you don't attack RIGHT UNDER him.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Lol johns Ruuku. Nah haha I'm kidding.

Thank you for finally clearing that up Yars.

Just an update for you guys, the export is still in development. No where near finished but I've made a good start.

 

[SpeedyJ]

Sorry for the double post but this needed a bump of some sort.

So anyway, the BBR thinks G&W and Falco is even

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[UTDZac]

Sorry for the double post but this needed a bump of some sort.

So anyway, the BBR thinks G&W and Falco is even

What are your thoughts on this?

It's even if both players have a good deal of experience against the other character and both players play smart. Otherwise, it's in the advantage of whoever has more experience / plays safer.

 

[SFA Smiley]

It's even if both players have a good deal of experience against the other character and both players play smart. Otherwise, it's in the advantage of whoever has more experience / plays safer.

So basically you think its even lol

 

[UTDZac]

Yes, here is my matchup chart:

MK is -2
Marth is -2
Everyone else is Even

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yes, here is my matchup chart:

MK is -2
Marth is -2
Everyone else is Even

The man has spoken!

Jmoney hurry up and finish the matchup thread, here's all you need

 

[SpeedyJ]

Wow, what's the rush man..

It'll be up by next week at latest lol

Edit: GOOD VIDEOS PLEASE :D

 

[SFA Smiley]

Twas a joke

 

[SpeedyJ]

Well you could put in an emoticon or something because in case you haven't noticed, without those its pretty much impossible to determine seriousness over forums since I can't see your body language or hear your tone of voice..

 

[SFA Smiley]

It was pretty obvious seeing as I quoted the post I was referring too. Im confident everyone else got it

 

[SpeedyJ]

It was pretty obvious seeing as I quoted the post I was referring too. Im confident everyone else got it

Clearly not obvious to the person it was being directed to...

And where is "everyone else"?

 

[Splice]

I got it :X

Also i totally agree with UTD

 

[-Ominous-]

I got it too...

 

[SpeedyJ]

Spoiler

Its a conspiracy against dumb people... >.>

For future, reference, please stop posting the same points over and over again.

 

[Splice]

Say what?