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The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.

Exceladon City

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
The Lonesome Crowded Midwest
Thanks for the critique. The timing on Snake's grenades is 4 seconds. I already knew that. Orange is gross and standard is boring. Like I said I was nowhere near on top of my game. Of course, it wouldn't have helped much seeing as Samurai Panda is stupid good. I don't punish Snake spotdodges because of Grenade Pull>Spotdodge. It's a doozy.
 

Lightning93

Smash Champion
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
2,793
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, California
... I'm hurt guys... seriously... so many of my things are orange.

And it's okay Excel, I thought it might be a JJC, but we all have those days. Just keep the advice we gave you, (it's easier to remember hearing it from someone else imo), at your next tourney in mind and you'll win.
 

NeverKnowsBest

Monochrome Like A Panda
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,331
Location
Fort Washington, MD.

Area_6

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
294
The match vsing nynja on Sv was crazy. I'd hate to be in that position. the second stock was just OH LAWD.

But all the other matches WELL DONE zeton
 

Toronto Joe

Smash Master
Joined
May 13, 2008
Messages
4,580
Location
On MSN
good matches, i would have been more aggressive when letting Ike get back on from the edge but nonetheless baiting his jump with lasers and the shield>utilt did the job safely
 

Zephil

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
945
Location
Panama, Panama
...lol at the end! NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING, IS ALREADY RECORDED IDIOT!! :laugh:

thats a match you prefer not get recorded
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,664
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
yaysh Zeton matches.

Your first mistake was using a Marcus McCloud texture hack. I'll refuse to admit that ever happened. That ain't canon.
>_>

vs. doom 1:

Do not use D-air on an opponent's shield unless you're using it as a cross-up (you attack with it behind their shield). If it's on front of their shield, you'll get punished; you still might get punished when it's a cross-up, just not against Ike, lol. It seemed like the first time and some times after that, it's what you tried to do, but you messed up and ended up in front of their shield.

Towwards the end, you started using D-air predictably frequently. Doom could have punished.

Other than that, you played really well. Good job on those shine stalls and retreating rolls to get out of Ike's range, and just in general playing out of it (except 2:05 which was lol).

vs. doom 2:

Stop Firefoxing into Eruption, lol.

You're still D-airing a lot. Again, only as a cross-up against a shield, and even then not to the point where it can be predicted. First stock, I was able to predict at least twice that you would D-air after a short shine stall, and when an Ike can predict you...that's bad.

1:20-1:30 was really well played, IMO, as was the short platform trap after that.

Otherwise, again, you play really well. But those D-airs...those D-airs. First match, they were used better and not as frequently, but this match they were predictable and sometimes punishable but they weren't punished. At least half of the D-airs should have been predicted/punished.

vs. Royal Nynja 1:

I have a really strong urge to critique Nynja, him being a Diddy and me being a Diddy main >_>.

Much better texture.

At the beginning of the match, you were really good with maneuvering around Diddy and his naners (same with the beginning of the Ike match) but when you tried to pick one up, you fell for his trap. Watch for that. Diddy is really good at closing space and keeping his naners in his control.

Oh yeah, cross-up D-airs on shield won't be as safe anymore, Diddy has decently quick OoS options (nair and bair, and GT backwards if he has a banana in hand). I'm not sure who beats who when you D-air (Diddy will probably be safe with a backwards GT) but a cross-up B-air on his shield is pretty golden.

Nice DI first stock.

Lol second stock.

Shine-stalling as you wait for an edgeguard seems really good. Good job on that and thanks for giving me inspiration, lol.

You had a chance to pick up one of his naners after you killed him, but didn't.

Still D-air less, especially against Diddy who can punish it quicker and better.

vs. Royal Nynja 2:

DO NOT GRAB HIS PEANUT. It doesn't give you an edge at all, and it severely limits your options to just throwing it and specials. You become much more predictable, and Diddy is able to follow up much easier. I'm not sure if that was intended or not...but just don't.

Standing lasers that close to your opponent isn't good when they're free to move.

Don't throw his naner offstage trying to hit him. Overall, you'll get a larger benefit if you just ran to the other side of the stage and started camping, then using the banana as he tried to approach.

Nice powershield to U-tilt, lol.

Bah, stop being predictable with those D-airs.

OVERALL

Good Fox. Overall, nice usage of the shine-stall. However, you need to use D-air a lot less. Know when to D-air (cross-up behind shield on characters with sub-par OoS options behind then, Ike=good to use, Marth=baaaaad to use. Punishing lag and predictable approaches) and when not to use D-air (any other time, lol). The first match, you used it an okay amount, at least more towards the beginning. Afterwards, you used it quite a lot. Nynja punished you for it a lot, and Doom should have punished you a lot more than he did. Stall to D-air was pretty predictable after like the second time.

Other than that (and your usage of bananas) you're a pretty good Fox.

tl;dr: D-air less.
 

Fenrir VII

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
3,506
In Zeton's defense, most Foxes I know go Dair crazy in non-important friendlies... I really don't know why this is, but they do... *shrug*

It seems like Foxes aren't performing as well as they should in the Diddy match... like, every vid I watch shows the Fox clearly missing opportunities against the monkey... hrmm... don't know what to do about this. I like that match, though.
 

Exceladon City

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
The Lonesome Crowded Midwest
In Zeton's defense, most Foxes I know go Dair crazy in non-important friendlies... I really don't know why this is, but they do... *shrug*

It seems like Foxes aren't performing as well as they should in the Diddy match... like, every vid I watch shows the Fox clearly missing opportunities against the monkey... hrmm... don't know what to do about this. I like that match, though.

I have a friend who seconds Diddy so I'm pretty used to that match-up.
 

Lightning93

Smash Champion
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
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San Francisco Bay Area, California
Lol a thing to remember, when Diddy picks up a banana he HAS to throw it. There's not much he can do otherwise. In my experience he either throws it at you or near you, so a dash-shine usually is your friend here. Otherwise he'll boost-up-toss and hit you with a smash or jab, so a shield works just as well.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,664
Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
He doesn't have to throw it.

He can

-Zdrop
-Throw it at you
-Throw it in the air
-Dribble
-Peanut-gun
-Peanut-gun cancelled throw
-Monkey Flip
-Monkey Flip Kick
-Rocket Barrel (lol OoS rocket barrel on platformed stages)
-Dtilt
-Fsmash (if L is set to attack)
-Aerial (if L is set to attack)

The last two aren't as common, but he does have options aside from throwing a banana. His glide-toss size and dribbles let him easily manuever from having a banana to not having one, so it's not too much of a problem. Against reflector characters (mainly in the Falco matchup) a lot of Diddys like approaching to mid-range, dribbling back, and punishing your shine with a monkey flip kick, so be aware of that. There's a lot more tricks/mindgames/unpredictability crap that he can do with his flips, peanut gun, and two bananas.

In general, fire your lasers when he's at long range and even mid-range; most Diddys will feel less compelled to do banana stuff and dribble around for unpredictability, and they'll feel more compelled to straight up approach, so predicting and punishing is easier.

but tl;dr: He doesn't HAVE to throw it at you, and probably won't right away.
 

NeverKnowsBest

Monochrome Like A Panda
Joined
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Messages
6,331
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Fort Washington, MD.
In general, fire your lasers when he's at long range and even mid-range; most Diddys will feel less compelled to do banana stuff and dribble around for unpredictability, and they'll feel more compelled to straight up approach, so predicting and punishing is easier.

but tl;dr: He doesn't HAVE to throw it at you, and probably won't right away.
That is exactly what I do. That's why Fox's lasers are so vital in his meta-game. His lasers will always make match-ups better. lulz.
 

DarkAura

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
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The Cold
theres a diddy main in my crew... trust me im freakin hopeless in that match-up he has freakishly good stage control so usually i never get the opportunity to Glide-toss
 

Jenkins

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
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CT
theres a diddy main in my crew... trust me im freakin hopeless in that match-up he has freakishly good stage control so usually i never get the opportunity to Glide-toss
fox doesnt have a glide toss.

its a jump canceled throw
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Indianapolis, Indiana
fox doesnt have a glide toss.

its a jump canceled throw
I was about to say this, lol. And everyone has a JC throw; it's been known since like 2008, or really 2002 (lolmelee).

But yeah, everyone has a glide-toss. It's just that some people's just sucks, since it depends on the roll and how much momentum you're doing at the start of it (I think). So some people have a good glide-toss from a forward roll, but not one from a back roll, or vice-versa.
 

Jenkins

Smash Lord
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I was about to say this, lol. And everyone has a JC throw; it's been known since like 2008, or really 2002 (lolmelee).

But yeah, everyone has a glide-toss. It's just that some people's just sucks, since it depends on the roll and how much momentum you're doing at the start of it (I think). So some people have a good glide-toss from a forward roll, but not one from a back roll, or vice-versa.
yeah, fox's is so non-existant i just say he doesnt have one.
 

DarkAura

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
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The Cold
ill get you guys some more vids of my fox tonight

the first match im gonna get you is a rob vs fox match and it's the first match i had since i said i was dropping fox and my fox sucked... guess i was completely wrong
 

Jenkins

Smash Lord
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ill get you guys some more vids of my fox tonight

the first match im gonna get you is a rob vs fox match and it's the first match i had since i said i was dropping fox and my fox sucked... guess i was completely wrong
or you just played a nub.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
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Indianapolis, Indiana
Nice opening combo. Nice music lol.

OKAY SO STUFF.

Don't D-air the front of a shield. It's baaaaad.

Learn how to DI out of Rob's D-smash; it makes the match-up MUCH easier.

Don't roll into your opponent, because it's easy to punish.

A flat out running U-smash when your opponent is doing nothing is easily predictable and punishable. You're better off trying to bait an attack and avoiding and punishing it, or punishing something else, like you did on one of your U-smash kills when you killed him after he teched.

It looked like you threw out some random moves (lolsidesmash) at random parts of the match.

Other than that, your Fox is pretty good.
 

Jenkins

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
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CT
Nice opening combo. Nice music lol.

OKAY SO STUFF.

Don't D-air the front of a shield. It's baaaaad.

Learn how to DI out of Rob's D-smash; it makes the match-up MUCH easier.

Don't roll into your opponent, because it's easy to punish.

A flat out running U-smash when your opponent is doing nothing is easily predictable and punishable. You're better off trying to bait an attack and avoiding and punishing it, or punishing something else, like you did on one of your U-smash kills when you killed him after he teched.

It looked like you threw out some random moves (lolsidesmash) at random parts of the match.

Other than that, your Fox is pretty good.
that was perfect. read that.
 

DarkAura

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
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The Cold
thanks a lot for the critique :)

oh lol and that side smash was supposed to be a Fair... i tried C-sticking it instead of using A... failsauce. Another thing is that WoP at the end coulda been avoided... i realized i still would have had my second jump left so i coulda done a foxcopter out
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
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Indianapolis, Indiana
i forgot to say that lol.

Other than that...yeah. It's kinda hard to critique from just one match, but your Fox looks good. Why were you considering dropping him LOL.
 

Zhamy

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
2,088
Location
NorCal
Your Fox is good, DarkAura. Why would you quit?

Never mind, you all suck at Fox.
 

DarkAura

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,197
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The Cold
I didn't know my fox was THAT good... thats why i wanted to quit... and looks like everything came back to me in a matter of minutes
 
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