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The First Party general support thread

Ben Holt

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Roughly in order of importance:
Dixie Kong
Toad (Toadette Echo)
Waluigi
Impa
Bandana Waddle Dee
Rex & Pyra
Isaac (Matthew Echo)
Chorus Kids
Spring Man (Ribbon Girl Echo)
Krystal
Paper Mario
Tingle
Midna + Wolf Link
Skull Kid
Funky Kong (Possible Echo of DK)
Cranky Kong
Akira Howard
Daemon X Machina Protagonist
Ninten (Echo of Ness)
Zoroark
Revali
Chibi-Robo
Excitebiker or Mach Rider
Balloon Fighter
Takamaru
Starfy
Medusa
Hades
Dry Bowser (Echo of Bowser)
Ray Mk. III
Black Shadow (Old Ganondorf moveset)
Samurai Goroh
Baby Mario Bros.

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones off the top of my head that have a decent chance.
 

GoodGrief741

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Anyways, for reference my most wanted first party characters is Chibi-Robo... but Nintendo killed him with Park Patrol... and then they killed him again by not releasing the Wii version of the original in the states... and again by not releasing the proper DS sequel in the states... and then again by shoehorning him into a photo game... and again by shoehorning him into a platformer with the most terrible luck based level selection wheel I've ever seen.

The only time Nintendo has treated Chibi-Robo with any respect since the original game was by releasing an Amiibo for him. And I guess that flaming Chibi-Robo image lol.
Aw, what's wrong with Park Patrol? I thought it was pretty great.

But yeah Nintendo never gave the poor guy a chance. I hope they reconsider someday.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Aw, what's wrong with Park Patrol? I thought it was pretty great.

But yeah Nintendo never gave the poor guy a chance. I hope they reconsider someday.
Park Patrol wasn't in line with the original... and was also a ****ing Walmart exclusive in the states... I swear, they never even tried to make him successful in the States and did everything they could to ensure he died... and then kept poking the corpse for random reasons. Like I inherently understand the original Chibi-Robo is a super niche title by all reasonable standards, but good god did they basically make every wrong with him afterwards (and even that debut was a late Gamecube release to further ensure he was niche...)
 

TheYungLink

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Ideally, I'd want first party characters to be a mix of recent-yet-significant (Wii Fit Trainer, Miis, most Pokémon and Fire Emblem newcomers), rounding out parts of existing series (most Mario newcomers, putting Ridley and Chrom in Ultimate), and highlighting cult classics that aren't discussed anymore but have fans that pine for the games long after they've seemingly been left behind by Nintendo (Pit in Brawl).

For the first category, I'd like to see a Style Savvy / Girls Mode character. It's a fashion / business sim that is popular for its unusually high quality among the genre (fashion sims are usually low budget shovelware) and visual novel storytelling aspects. It's not discussed much online unless you know where to look, because it's aimed squarely at women and anyone else into feminine fashion, but it is nonetheless a great series that should be seen as a core part of Nintendo's identity. Then there's the Rhythm Heaven series, a game series that is genuinely loved by most people who play it, with great gameplay that doesn't just refer to Dance Dance Revolution like most other rhythm games do. The only problem continues to be that people can't agree on who the Rhythm Heaven character could be, but otherwise a newcomer from this series would go over well.

For the second category, we have some characters that are still demanded but are part of existing series that usually have a bunch of characters playable already. Notable among these are Dixie Kong, Toad / Captain Toad / Toadette, Bandana Waddle Dee, and any Pokémon or Fire Emblem character that is not part of the newest games on the market like Lugia or Zoroark or Caeda or Lyn. Of this category, I'd stress Dixie Kong's absence in particular, as it feels like a core part of the DK crew is still missing, but that's probably just my bias. A couple other examples are Krystal, Fiora, Elma, any Xenoblade character really, it's odd that it's a growing series yet so far Shulk remains the sole representative of it for now.

The last category is my favorite. It's where no one has to care about relevancy anymore, you only need to care about whether you feel the game the character comes from is as good as any of the other games currently represented in Smash. Chibi-Robo no longer relevant, their series dead in the water? Who cares, put him in the game because the Chibi-Robo games are genuinely great. You want retro picks like Takamaru and Balloon Fighter? Go ahead, no one's gonna argue with you that either game is bad or that their main characters wouldn't be fun in Smash. Remember how much fun Sin and Punishment was on the Nintendo 64 and Wii, since both were made by legendary shoot-em-up game developer Treasure? Let's get Saki Amamiya in there!

Those are the three approaches I wish the Smash series would take. I'm not interested in discussing how likely any of this is, I just want to use this as a springboard for the rest of us to get creative and open about our wants.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Park Patrol wasn't in line with the original... and was also a ****ing Walmart exclusive in the states... I swear, they never even tried to make him successful in the States and did everything they could to ensure he died... and then kept poking the corpse for random reasons. Like I inherently understand the original Chibi-Robo is a super niche title by all reasonable standards, but good god did they basically make every wrong with him afterwards (and even that debut was a late Gamecube release to further ensure he was niche...)
I agree completely. Sure, Chibi-Robo is niche, but so is Pikmin and that didn't stop Nintendo from positioning every title as a big release. If well promoted and with enough ambition behind each title, I see no reason why it couldn't have been a big hit.

Alas, that didn't happen.
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
Man, I just want Waluigi. I've wanted him for like 18 years. Wobbuffet would be pretty rad too, but I'm not holding out any hope for him.
EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman

This is another factor I feel is why there is still want for first parties.

Third party desire seems to stem particularly from those lucky enough who got their first party wishes already, but what about those of us who haven't?

Many have wants that have have been unfulfilled for the past 20 years. Characters such as Paper Mario, Waluigi, Toad, Skull Kid, First gen Pokémon etc have not only had fans waiting patiently for two decades.

Comparitively, although I have my own third party wants, the desire to see those third parties manifested isn't as strong as seeing first parties as the build up behind just can't compare.
A surprise is great, but getting something you've wanted for a really long time is even better IMO, and even third parties I adore that'd be unlikely such as Spyro or Heavy being revealed would struggle to compare to my happiness at getting Toad, Waluigi or Dixie Kong.

Also, kinda sucks that Piranha Plant was the Mario character selection when so many of the longstanding newcomer desires are from this very series. Nearly any other series taking the "wtf/surprise" choice would have been better for fan desire.
 
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Dee Dude

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I feel like Byleth & Akira getting in but not Rex & Spring-Man would essentially be the same reason Inklings didn’t get in Smash 4 but Corrin did, add that with the fact that they haven’t included 3H and Astral Chain Spirits despite the games being out for months.

It’s depressing to know that the only Nintendo characters that are even worth bringing up or deemed as possible are marketing picks like the aforementioned Three Houses and Astral Chain protagonists, every other first-party that wasn’t lucky like :ultkrool::ultincineroar::ultisabelle::ultridley::ultchrom::ultdaisy::ultdarksamus:and a goddamn :ultpiranha: are neglected to side roles without even a second thought or possible consideration (except Rex).
 
D

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Y'know to talk about this evolving climate of speculation for a moment I think for the most part it's been a good thing a lot of people have been warming up to the idea of more 3rd parties and it expands the horizons of Smash in more ways than what 1st parties could do and bring in more than what 1st parties could bring but there's evolving and warming up to the idea of more 3rd parties and then there's throwing away most if not all 1st parties that aren't from recent titles.

That, in my opinion, is where the problem lays as a lot of people have been primarily a Nintendo fan first and other companies/indies second since throughout Nintendo's lifespan there's been multiple generations where 3rd parties are practically non-existent (N64, Wii U, GBA among others) so many people didn't get to experience what others have in which case they're unfamiliar with those characters and it feels like they're being pushed out of speculation as they don't get all this hype for this or that character and just end up feeling uninterested and just want it to end.

More 3rd parties is always an amazing thing and we should all try and expand our horizons a bit but at the end of the day people still have Nintendo at heart and their core gaming experiences were with Nintendo so that's what they focus on the most which is the Nintendo characters that feel missing such as Dixie Kong, Bandanna Dee, Isaac, Chorus Kids, Rex/Pyra, Etc.

Maybe that's just me though but I don't think the game evolving is a bad thing whatsoever just that it evolves to the point where all first party talk is practically banished is where the problem starts nothing more. I and I'm sure many others just want a healthy blend of both not one over the other to the point of it not existing.
 
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fogbadge

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Anyways, for reference my most wanted first party characters is Chibi-Robo... but Nintendo killed him with Park Patrol... and then they killed him again by not releasing the Wii version of the original in the states... and again by not releasing the proper DS sequel in the states... and then again by shoehorning him into a photo game... and again by shoehorning him into a platformer with the most terrible luck based level selection wheel I've ever seen.

The only time Nintendo has treated Chibi-Robo with any respect since the original game was by releasing an Amiibo for him. And I guess that flaming Chibi-Robo image lol.
how dare you, nintendo clearly love chibi-robo, they clearly didnt release the games over here is cause it didnt sell as well in the west if you do like most of the series you are perfectly welcome to leave
 

Door Key Pig

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If they truly hope to expand on record with all the game worlds in the same spot, at least one of them could perhaps be a new 1st-party world, right? I'll personally keep hoping for Rhythm Paradise till it's all said and done (I mean it is missing an AT or Mii costume...)
 

Porygon2

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Porky
Ganon
Dark Matter
Chorus Kids
Mach Rider
Various Pokemon (my preference is for another tag-team trainer using as-of-yet unseen Pokemon types, like Cynthia)

I support first parties generally because 'Nintendo character' is essentially a shortcut for 'well-designed'. I love fighters with distinct silhouettes and movement styles – it's with these characters that Sakurai's creativity really shines. I guess I have some sort of disconnect with people whose "most wanted" include more than one of the following: Guy with Gun™, Brawler Guy™, Anime Character with Gimmick & Hairstyle™.
 
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Opossum

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Porky
Ganon
Dark Matter
Chorus Kids
Mach Rider
Various Pokemon (my preference is for another tag-team trainer using as-of-yet unseen Pokemon types, like Cynthia)

I support first parties generally because 'Nintendo character' is essentially a shortcut for 'well-designed'. I love fighters with distinct silhouettes and movement styles – it's with these characters that Sakurai's creativity really shines. I guess I have some sort of disconnect with people whose "most wanted" include more than one of the following: Guy with Gun™, Brawler Guy™, Anime Character with Gimmick & Hairstyle™.
I don't see how characters like the archetypes you mentioned can't have recognizable silhouettes and idle animations. For anime styled characters, Link and Marth have very distinctive and separate animations and silhouettes, as do Ryu and Little Mac for brawler types. And we don't even have enough "guys with guns" on the roster to even compare, so that's unique in and of itself.
 

Porygon2

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I don't see how characters like the archetypes you mentioned can't have recognizable silhouettes and idle animations..
I mean, I didn’t say they couldn’t. I referenced a general trend, and there are obviously gradations. Link and Marth are anime-styled, but their primary visual archetype would be ‘knight’, as opposed to, say, Danganronpa teenager x. Ryu is a fairly plain brawler, but is iconic in his posture and his having set the mold for other fighting game characters; Doom Guy is a more immediately visually arresting guy with gun than James Sunderland or Nathan Drake; etc. Fun visuals that get you immediately thinking “wow, I wonder what they can do?” should be a higher priority, that’s all. This is where Nintendo has historically shined.
 

EricTheGamerman

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EricTheGamerman EricTheGamerman

This is another factor I feel is why there is still want for first parties.

Third party desire seems to stem particularly from those lucky enough who got their first party wishes already, but what about those of us who haven't?

Many have wants that have have been unfulfilled for the past 20 years. Characters such as Paper Mario, Waluigi, Toad, Skull Kid, First gen Pokémon etc have not only had fans waiting patiently for two decades.

Comparitively, although I have my own third party wants, the desire to see those third parties manifested isn't as strong as seeing first parties as the build up behind just can't compare.
A surprise is great, but getting something you've wanted for a really long time is even better IMO, and even third parties I adore that'd be unlikely such as Spyro or Heavy being revealed would struggle to compare to my happiness at getting Toad, Waluigi or Dixie Kong.

Also, kinda sucks that Piranha Plant was the Mario character selection when so many of the longstanding newcomer desires are from this very series. Nearly any other series taking the "wtf/surprise" choice would have been better for fan desire.
I feel like the narratives and mythos played a big role in determining how big inclusions like Ridley and King K. Rool were, and people were more likely to join those groups to be a part of that narrative (which I don't see anything wrong with inherently, I don't consider fun bandwagoning to be an issue). The ideas of "too big" and "too irrelevant" were things fan actively pushed against in requesting these fighters, and their inclusion was the victory over those "restrictions." I don't think that many other characters are going to be able to compare in that regard, and now that these fighters have done it, it's a little bit less interesting in regards to making this awe-inspiring narrative to pull people in. The only characters that hold a narrative still are arguably: Geno (for obvious reasons), Waluigi (always an assist and memes), Isaac (Golden Sun revival hopes and dreams? Eh, this one I'm not sure about, mostly because I don't think Nintendo has any intentions on letting Camelot go back to the series), and Bandanna Dee (no new Kirby stuff). And like, the narrative Bandanna Dee rallies against is less compelling than that of King K. Rool to a general audience, especially since part of the Metroid and DK movements were from the overall lack of content in other places too. I just think these narratives get intrinsically weaker the further into Nintendo's catalogue you go, and they aren't going to be able to drum up such wide spread support for characters in the way the old guard was able to.

Like, you list three different Mario characters as unfulfilled. There's one immediate problem of a lack of a frontrunner like there was with DK, and especially with Metroid from the fans. That splits support in a lot of different ways and is a trapping that Zelda fans also fall into with regards to their support. I'm also not sure that I'd call most of these characters as heavily supported either across 20 years. Waluigi only really began to be a thing in Smash 4, and then in Ultimate it finally came to a fever pitch for example. Paper Mario is kind of the "third Mario" to the "third Link" that people aren't super keen on. And then you also have the issue of people just being fatigued on Mario characters at this point with 10 playable options. All these factors muddy the waters as to what the best path forward is with regards to who you implement in Smash, and organized support has the best chance of actually catching Nintendo and Sakurai's attention. I'm personally fine with Waluigi, apathetic to Toad (sorry, Toad means nothing special to me, but I acknowledge he should probably be playable), and hesitant on Paper Mario, and you'll see different distributions of that around the fan base, with a further Geno wrinkle as well. 1st Gen Pokemon are especially unpopular given that they already comprise half of the playable Pokemon characters, and there's also a fair amount of Pokemon fatigue in Smash.

I think that's what hurts first party fighters much of the time at this point. There aren't clear cut "winners" of fan support and speculation when you start talking about adding a new character from an existing series to Smash. So many of the big names are already in, with a handful of lesser big names sort of being noticeably absent... but also just not particularly agreed upon as inclusions either. It's harder to get that consensus on Bandanna Dee, harder to get that consensus on Waluigi, etc. than it was for say Wario back in Brawl. Yes, these characters have emerged generally on the top, but with less overall support than what came before. I realize King K. Rool and Ridley encountered much opposition too, but I just think the problem gets exacerbated the deeper you get into Nintendo franchises and people start being more specialized in their favorites. I don't really see characters with the same levels of support these days, and a good deal of the people who may have been stronger supporters of these Nintendo characters have moved on to Third Parties for this reason and that, and that's where I think the issues start to crop up regarding Nintendo having as much interest in first parties for DLC. The lack of clear cut winners in the community, the benefits of third parties vs. first parties, and their own non-interest in certain characters (Krystal got largely dropped from Star Fox entirely and they've let Golden Sun stay dead as examples) sort of leads to this situation I think.
 

warpenguin55

Smash Journeyman
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My List:
Edelgard
Grookey's Final Evolvution(Assuming it's good)
Hades
Rex
Celica
Silvally
An Arms rep
Rythem Heaven rep
Impa
Isaac
Porky
Sylux
Alph
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon echo to act as Original Ganondorf, would allow for Ganondorf to receive a major rework)
Akira Howard(IDK if Astral Chain counts or not)
 

NintenRob

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Speaking of Skull Kid. Today we're gonna have a push for him on reddit and Gamefaqs. Come join us!
 

smashkirby

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Missing out on cool characters just because they're not iconic is boring. That kind of thought process doesn't give us R.O.B., or Pit, or Captain Falcon, and Smash would be worse off for that.

Takamaru's obscure. So what? He would be great to play, has a lot of potential for a cool stage and great music. It costs Nintendo no licensing money to include him.

Same with relevancy, just picking new characters makes for a very boring roster - it becomes predictable and starts feeling like a promotional machine. Not to mention that it means that characters that would have been perfectly qualified to get into a game didn't just because you can only have so many characters (think Brawl era).

Overall, the way you look at things imo makes for a dreadfully boring selection.
I kid you not, I'm 99.98 sure Sakurai has said this exact thing somewhere in an interview (I don't remember if it was in regards to Smash 4 or Ultimate). That if he only went for relevant/recent/popular picks, he himself would get increasingly bored with the roster.
 

Jomosensual

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I kid you not, I'm 99.98 sure Sakurai has said this exact thing somewhere in an interview (I don't remember if it was in regards to Smash 4 or Ultimate). That if he only went for relevant/recent/popular picks, he himself would get increasingly bored with the roster.
Yeah I remember that too. Believe it was a part of him explaining why characters like Wii Fit and Duck Hunt made the game as well
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
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I kid you not, I'm 99.98 sure Sakurai has said this exact thing somewhere in an interview (I don't remember if it was in regards to Smash 4 or Ultimate). That if he only went for relevant/recent/popular picks, he himself would get increasingly bored with the roster.
Pretty sure it was the Famitsu column after November 1st.
 

Spatman

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count me in the support of first party newcomers!
the character I desire the most is Dixie Kong.
But I'd like also newcomers from The Legend of Zelda, some pokémon like Sceptile and some wtf characters like I imagine AW characters and Excitebiker could be
 

smashkirby

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You know, as long I'm here, I may as well post my 1st party wants (Mind you, I don't expect ALL of these characters).

Skull Kid
Bandana Dee
Rex and Pyra/Mythra
Dixie Kong
Impa
Elma
Toad/Captain Toad
Spring Man/Ribbon Girl (Really anyone from ARMS, but I'd want either of these two more)
Fiora
Mona
Ashley
Kat & Ana
9-Volt
Isaac
Ray (Custom Robo)
Saki Amamiya
Lip
Harry (Teleroboxer)
Starfy
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Tempo (HarmoKnight)
Lyn
Victini
Adeleine
Ninten
Kamek
Funky Kong
Tingle
Krystal
Black Shadow
Tiki
Tom Nook
K.K. Slider
Viridi
Octoling
Lark (Pilotwings)
Alice (Balloon Kid)
Barbara (Jam with the Band)
Someone from Fossil Fighters (Preferably Nibbles or a T-Rex, but I'm not picky)
Andy
Chibi-Robo
Samurai Goroh
Meowth
Takamaru
Balloon Fighter
Excitebiker
Diskun
Parabo and Satebo
Really, more retro/obscure characters are a-ok in my book
DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
Kururin (Kuru Kuru Kururin)
Muddy Mole
Mach Rider
Ayumi Tachibana
Donbe and Hikari
Goku and Chao
Sheriff
Tamagon
Bubbles
Prince Sable
Sukapon
Ryota Hayami and/or Akari Hayami
Rhythm Heaven (Preferably Rhythm Girl, but I'm not picky)
Savvy Stylist
Wonder Red
Anna
Waluigi
Pauline
Geno

All in all, I'm good with any first-party character (as you can see here).
 
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fogbadge

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You know, as long I'm here, I may as well post my 1st party wants (Mind you, I don't expect ALL of these characters).

Skull Kid
Bandana Dee
Rex and Pyra/Mythra
Dixie Kong
Impa
Elma
Toad/Captain Toad
Spring Man/Ribbon Girl (Really anyone from ARMS, but I'd want either of these two more)
Fiora
Mona
Ashley
Kat & Ana
9-Volt
Isaac
Ray (Custom Robo)
Saki Amamiya
Lip
Harry (Teleroboxer)
Starfy
Jill (Drill Dozer)
Tempo (HarmoKnight)
Lyn
Victini
Adeleine
Ninten
Kamek
Funky Kong
Tingle
Krystal
Black Shadow
Tiki
Tom Nook
K.K. Slider
Viridi
Octoling
Lark (Pilotwings)
Alice (Balloon Kid)
Barbara (Jam with the Band)
Someone from Fossil Fighters (Preferably Nibbles or a T-Rex, but I'm not picky)
Andy
Chibi-Robo
Samurai Goroh
Meowth
Takamaru
Balloon Fighter
Excitebiker
Diskun
Parabo and Satebo
Really, more retro/obscure characters are a-ok in my book
DeMille (Tomato Adventure)
Kururin (Kuru Kuru Kururin)
Muddy Mole
Mach Rider
Ayumi Tachibana
Donbe and Hikari
Goku and Chao
Sheriff
Tamagon
Bubbles
Prince Sable
Sukapon
Ryota Hayami and/or Akari Hayami
Rhythm Heaven (Preferably Rhythm Girl, but I'm not picky)
Savvy Stylist
Wonder Red
Chibi Robo
Anna
Waluigi
Pauline
Geno

All in all, I'm good with any first-party character (as you can see here).
you put chibi-robo twice
 

SirCamp

Smash Ace
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Apr 15, 2014
Messages
709
After perusing this thread, I have one thing to say...

The lack of Captain Syrup is disturbing!

I mean come on. Where is the taste?? lol

For real though, Captain Syrup is great and it saddens me that she doesn't seem to make anyone's (ridiculously long) list of potential 1st party newcomers. She wasn't even in that awesome crowd picture. :ohwell:

Show our pirate diva some love people!
 

NintenRob

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After perusing this thread, I have one thing to say...

The lack of Captain Syrup is disturbing!

I mean come on. Where is the taste?? lol

For real though, Captain Syrup is great and it saddens me that she doesn't seem to make anyone's (ridiculously long) list of potential 1st party newcomers. She wasn't even in that awesome crowd picture. :ohwell:

Show our pirate diva some love people!
My apologies, she definitely deserves to be there. The character sadly doesn't get much exposure. And for whatever reason I couldn't get into Shake Dimension and that's the only Wario game I've played with her in it.

But she's very cool, we need a pirate!
 

YoshiandToad

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Still up Peach's dress.
Damn, had I remembered to include Andy on my list he might've been in that pic.

It's good regardless.
It's okay I can add both him, Sami(who I remember having almost as much suppprt at one point) and Syrup into v2.

Not sure if Vaati or Geno count as first party or third party hence why they're not there. Both are co-owned by Capcom and Square respectively I think but it's a grey area...
 
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NintenRob

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Gen is 100% owned by Square no questions asked. He's third party.


Vaati however I've never actually seen evidence he's owned by Capcom. I mean he appeared in Four Swords Adventure which wasn't Capcom, I don't think they were even credited. And he appears without issue is all the official books like Hyrule Historia.

I think the reason he doesn't appear much is simply the games he shows up in. He's almost like the Fawful of Zelda. Four Swords are essentially multi player spin-offs and Minish Cap was developed by an outside source.



Also if your taking name to appear V2 of the banner, may I recommend Daroach, Dark Matter and King Boo using his Luigi's Mansion design :p
 
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