The First Party general support thread

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I’m not against the inclusion of more guest characters, I think they make the game bigger and better, but I still want more Nintendo characters in this Nintendo game, for sure. My picks would include Dixie Kong, Isaac, a new retro character (I have preferences but I’d take anything at this point, sadly the out there picks aren’t really dlc friendly), Meowth and Bandana Dee

 

[Guynamednelson]

Even if it's the success of Hero and BK that kickstarted post-pass DLC, they need to consider what their series are:

• A series that started on the Famicom and has the majority of its titles available on Nintendo systems
• A series that started on the N64 and has a fanbase that wishes its devs stayed with Nintendo

 

[fogbadge]

Even if it's the success of Hero and BK that kickstarted post-pass DLC, they need to consider what their series are:

• A series that started on the Famicom and has the majority of its titles available on Nintendo systems
• A series that started on the N64 and has a fanbase that wishes its devs stayed with Nintendo

And don’t forget both are extremely popular which only helped

 

[Sebas22]

I think people are seriously overlooking Octoling as a possible new first-party rep, probably due to the mistaken assumption that they'd have to be an echo. As a Splatoon 2 rep (whereas Inkling is a Splatoon 1 rep) they could easily have a completely unique moveset simply by utilizing a different set of weapons.

YES! I'm not the only one who thinks Octoling can be an unique fighter! Hooray!

 

[Emelie]

I hope the next fighter pass has some more variety. Now we only have male characters that aren't first party. I guess it's fun in a way to be introduced to new characters but it's also annoying when their games are on systems that I don't own. I'm not sure if I understand their strategy here since it doesn't really market Nintendo or those particular games (aside from Dragon Quest but it's more popular in Japan).

 

[BravadoMan_13]

I approve of this thread. More 1st party characters are a plus in my book. My list as follows:

Super Mario - Waluigi and Toad
Wario (Land) - Captain Syrup, (Waluigi should be a part of this series)
Donkey Kong - Dixie Kong, Funky Kong, Cranky Kong
Banjo-Kazooie - Gruntilda and Mumbo
Conker - Conker
Legend Of Zelda - Impa
Kirby - Marx and Bandana Dee
Star Fox - Krystal
F-Zero - Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow, Pico
Mother - Porky
Fire Emblem - Micaiah
Kid Icarus - Medusa
Golden Sun - Isaac
Sin & Punishment - Saki
Rolling Western - Dillon
Advance Wars - Sami and Andy
Murasame Castle - Takamaru
Mischief Makers - Marina Liteyears

I know legally Banjo-Kazooie and Conker are owned by Microsoft, but I still consider them to be honorary first/second party franchises since the worlds of those two are universally connected with Donkey Kong through Diddy Kong Racing and extended to the Mario universe via DK being connected to the Mario games too.

There are some first party characters I am not actively supporting at the moment but would absolutely be OK with. Lyn, Toadette, Slippy, Anna, Elma, Rex/Pyra, Chibi-Robo would be great for their fanbases. Great thread NintenRob Waluigi and Dixie are absolutely needed for this roster in my eyes.

Made an edit:
View attachment 240973

Added:

1. Captain Syrup
2. Andy
3. Sami
4. Daroach
5. Dark Matter
6. Gooey
7. Barbara the Bat
8. Anna
9. Vaati
10. Medusa

and changed King Boo to his Luigi's Mansion form upon request!

Next edit may be a while, but feel free to recommend more.

Dude, this is absolutely amazing. Great work!

 

[GoodGrief741]

I approve of this thread. More 1st party characters are a plus in my book. My list as follows:

Super Mario - Waluigi and Toad
Wario (Land) - Captain Syrup, (Waluigi should be a part of this series)
Donkey Kong - Dixie Kong, Funky Kong, Cranky Kong
Banjo-Kazooie - Gruntilda and Mumbo
Conker - Conker
Legend Of Zelda - Impa
Kirby - Marx and Bandana Dee
Star Fox - Krystal
F-Zero - Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow, Pico
Mother - Porky
Fire Emblem - Micaiah
Kid Icarus - Medusa
Golden Sun - Isaac
Sin & Punishment - Saki
Rolling Western - Dillon
Advance Wars - Sami and Andy
Murasame Castle - Takamaru
Mischief Makers - Marina Liteyears

I know legally Banjo-Kazooie and Conker are owned by Microsoft, but I still consider them to be honorary first/second party franchises since the worlds of those two are universally connected with Donkey Kong through Diddy Kong Racing and extended to the Mario universe via DK being connected to the Mario games too.

There are some first party characters I am not actively supporting at the moment but would absolutely be OK with. Lyn, Toadette, Slippy, Anna, Elma, Rex/Pyra, Chibi-Robo would be great for their fanbases. Great thread NintenRob Waluigi and Dixie are absolutely needed for this roster in my eyes.

Dude, this is absolutely amazing. Great work!

Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't own Mischief Makers. Thought they did for a long time, but it's actually Treasure's IP, so sadly we might not see anything from it.

Really, I think that's the only reason why Marina doesn't get that much support. If she were first party I could see her pulling in even Isaac numbers given the game's cult popularity.

 

[fogbadge]

I hope the next fighter pass has some more variety. Now we only have male characters that aren't first party. I guess it's fun in a way to be introduced to new characters but it's also annoying when their games are on systems that I don't own. I'm not sure if I understand their strategy here since it doesn't really market Nintendo or those particular games (aside from Dragon Quest but it's more popular in Japan).

Er kazooie is female

 

[TheTuninator]

YES! I'm not the only one who thinks Octoling can be an unique fighter! Hooray!

Agreed - the seeming lack of conversation around Octoling mystifies me. I feel like you'd have to not have played Splatoon at all to think that they couldn't be. Give them something like the Dualies, Charger, Splatling, Brella, Curling Bombs, and Booyah Bomb final smash & you've got a completely different character. I'll say it again: I think people tend to assume Splatoon is fine at 1 rep for some reason, when in fact it's bigger than everything besides the Big 3 of Mario/Pokemon/Zelda right now, and could even make that into a Big 4, if it continues to see sustained success on this level. The series can and should have multiple additional reps.

 

[Lenidem]

The series can and should have multiple additional reps.

To be fair, that's the case of several other series.

 

[TheTuninator]

To be fair, that's the case of several other series.

Certainly! With that said, Splatoon is pretty unambiguously Nintendo's #4 IP right now, vastly exceeding even Kirby, DK or Fire Emblem in any game-to-game comparison (as far as I'm aware). Given this, and given that it's only got 1 rep, it should absolutely be one of the first things in the conversation about which first-party series are either likely to receive or deserving of additional representation - and I say this as a huge Wars fan.

 

[Lenidem]

Certainly! With that said, Splatoon is pretty unambiguously Nintendo's #4 IP right now, vastly exceeding even Kirby, DK or Fire Emblem in any game-to-game comparison (as far as I'm aware). Given this, and given that it's only got 1 rep, it should absolutely be one of the first things in the conversation about which first-party series are either likely to receive or deserving of additional representation - and I say this as a huge Wars fan.

Well that's interesting, I had no idea Splatoon was so big.

 

[TheTuninator]

Well that's interesting, I had no idea Splatoon was so big.

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't, which is understandable given how new the IP is! Splatoon 2 is the #6 all-time best-selling Switch game with over 9 million copies, and #7 is more than 2 million below that. Its popularity in Japan is particularly nuts, though. If you want to hear something wild, Splatoon 2 was at one point the #1 best-selling physical game in Japan, beating out Smash, Breath of the Wild, Odyssey, Mario Kart, everything. I assume Smash has passed it by now, but still, that's seriously impressive! Being even more popular in Japan than anywhere else certainly doesn't hurt its chances for more reps, either. Source here.

Given the series' massive popularity, it's one of the few remaining possibilities for first-party reps that can bring as much hype, or more, as any big third-party rep. People would go nuts for Octoling, Callie, Marie, or particularly Pearl and Marina, I imagine.

 

[Calamitas]

Not to be argumentative, but you could say the same about the people making lists of like 15 first-parties from games no one has heard of or are characters that were so minor they're not worth mentioning. It's like, why in the heck would they add, for example, Whacka or Chuck Quizmo from Paper Mario? It's just as silly.

And? It's not like people really make these kinds of lists anymore.

 

[fogbadge]

Agreed - the seeming lack of conversation around Octoling mystifies me. I feel like you'd have to not have played Splatoon at all to think that they couldn't be. Give them something like the Dualies, Charger, Splatling, Brella, Curling Bombs, and Booyah Bomb final smash & you've got a completely different character. I'll say it again: I think people tend to assume Splatoon is fine at 1 rep for some reason, when in fact it's bigger than everything besides the Big 3 of Mario/Pokemon/Zelda right now, and could even make that into a Big 4, if it continues to see sustained success on this level. The series can and should have multiple additional reps.

I think it’s more the fact that the octolings play identical to the inklings so its easy to picture them being the same in smash as well, also I think a lot of people assumed the only chance we had for an additional splatoon character

I do believe that splatoon is popular enough to warrant even more stuff in the future, though not sure we can call it Nintendo’s number 4 yet but I imagine it’ll catch up some series can do better with less for example animal crossing has done much better than fire emblem despite that the latter has more games

 

[TheTuninator]

I think it’s more the fact that the octolings play identical to the inklings so its easy to picture them being the same in smash as well, also I think a lot of people assumed the only chance we had for an additional splatoon character

I do believe that splatoon is popular enough to warrant even more stuff in the future, though not sure we can call it Nintendo’s number 4 yet but I imagine it’ll catch up some series can do better with less for example animal crossing has done much better than fire emblem despite that the latter has more games

There's no metric better than sales, and by sales it absolutely is the #4 IP right now. It blows away even mainstays like DK and Kirby, and isn't too far off Zelda. This isn't to say that it couldn't fall off in the future, of course, but if it maintains its current popularity it's unquestionably the #4 IP.

 

[Opossum]

Er kazooie is female

Kazooie also isn't the headliner character and absolutely plays second fiddle to Banjo despite making up a lot of his moveset. People really shouldn't use Kazooie as a counterpoint to "no female DLC characters" because the more you look at it as a rebuttal, the more it falls flat.

 

[Sysreq]

Er kazooie is female

I'm sorry, how do people refer to the character? I'm pretty sure I almost exclusively hear people refer to the pair as "Banjo", meaning Kazooie is an afterthought, if anything. You're only bringing up Kazooie when it's convenient.

 

[PhantomShab]

"We need female DLC characters because uh reasons."

"Kazooie is female."

"That doesn't count!"

sensiblechuckle.gif

 

[GoodGrief741]

The real crime here is people downplaying the best girl Kazooie.

 

[TheYungLink]

The real crime here is people downplaying the best girl Kazooie.

The real crime is using Kazooie to downplay people's desire for a wholly female character that isn't a part of another character's moveset.

(that said I imagine some women will be okay with a character with both male and female versions getting in as long as the female versions are included)

 

[Sysreq]

"We need female DLC characters because uh reasons."

"Kazooie is female."

"That doesn't count!"

sensiblechuckle.gif

Me when people don't understand what a female DLC character is.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The real crime is using Kazooie to downplay people's desire for a wholly female character that isn't a part of another character's moveset.

(that said I imagine some women will be okay with a character with both male and female versions getting in as long as the female versions are included)

You're allowed to want that of course, but I just think it's sad that people say Kazooie doesn't amount to anything when she's a great character dammit.

 

[Calamitas]

You're allowed to want that of course, but I just think it's sad that people say Kazooie doesn't amount to anything when she's a great character dammit.

No matter how much personality she has in her home games, none of that really shines through in Smash, though.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Shall we talk about female first party characters then?

Toadette has risen up the ranks in recent years through Captain Toad, New Super Mario Bros, Odyssey and Mario Maker 2 she's become both a canon mainline cast member and the defacto player 4 of the series.
Let's not forget the internet losing their mind when she introduced the concept of Peachette too even if that was more squarely aimed at Bowser.

Pauline is currently being marketed to advertise Mario Kart Tour and was heavily leaned on for Mario Odyssey's advertising to the point I thought she was going to have a FAR bigger role than what she actually got. She was also the biggest Mario Tennis Aces DLC reveal so she's becoming somewhat of a "Superstar" in her own rights.

Dixie Kong is the first character I think of when I think Nintendo heroine. Not Peach, nor Zelda, nor Samus even. Dixie has been one of the very few Ninty girls to NOT get kidnapped through the years and unlike Samus there's no twist that she's a girl, she wears it on her sleeve.

Impa is one of the few reoccurring Zelda characters and has garnered fan support through...well mostly Hyrule Warriors if I'm honest.
Still she is undeniably a fierce warrior and with the focus in Zelda being Sheikah based in recent years it seems Impa is one of the more logical options if Zelda is ever allowed a newcomer.

Midna is currently an assist trophy but despite that she is easily one of the most popular fan favourite characters in all of Zelda, rivalling that of Skull Kid at the very top. She's also remained a popular choice for Smash speculation despite her game being far from the most recent entry.

Tetra is another ridiculously popular female character in the Zelda franchise although her fandom has quietened down a fraction just due to not wanting to add another

Spoiler

triforce wielder

to the limited Zelda pool.

There's a few other good options for female Zelda cast members outside the above such as Urbosa, Fi, Mipha, Ruto, Medli, Marin, Lana, Maron and Epona the freaking horse even, etc. Zelda is very much a goldmine for those seeking some fun female options.

We got Octoling who as discussed previously has a whole heap of options available to them as Inkling cannot quite portray everything from the game, and whilst there's now an Octoling Boy meaning we'd likely get both genders, the Splatoon community were begging for Octolings to become playable based entirely off Splatoon 1's Octoling girl enemies. Heck, the female characters are very much the default in Splatoon.

Then we have Elma who is capable of duel wielding blades, guns and riding in a freaking mecha as well as some other more spoilery abilities that we're not going to go into right now.

There's also Fiora and Pyra and Mythra but since I've played neither of those Xenoblades I feel unqualified to talk about them.

Springman, whilst the face of ARMS is far less popular than female fighters Twintelle and Minmin and Ribbon Girl is arguably as big a face as he is of the franchise seeing as how they both appear on the boxart and are the first fighters we meet.

You have traditionally more feminine Pokemon choices that have lasted the test of time with Gardevoir(who can still be male) and Eevee(who is far more likely to be male but insanely popular with female trainers from what I can tell).

I also find it INCREDIBLY ironic that whilst we ended up with Incineroar and everyone was predicting Decidueye would be the Pokemon newcomer when Ultimate was first announced, that the seemingly ignored other starter evolution; the feminine Primarina, was voted by Pokemon fans in Japan as THE most popular final evolution stage of the three ranking in as the third most popular Sun and Moon Pokemon. Rowlet was number one, but neither Decidueye nor Incineroar made the list.

Whilst Bandana Waddle Dee is inarguably the most popular Kirby choice, Adeleine managed to maintain fan interest despite not appearing for basically 18 years. Her reveal in Star Allies on Switch was a big deal to Kirby fans, and with the ability to paint minions and fight with them she has an almost unlimited potential moveset wise for Smash.

Fire Emblem! Yes, not everyone's favourite choice for a Nintendo newcomer, but between Byleth and Edelgard being the two most likely Fire Emblem candidates right now alongside Lyndis being the most popular Fire Emblem character(bar maybe Ike) and even Anna making ground between being Three Houses DLC and being a driving force in the mobile runaway success that is Fire Emblem Heroes, we have a handful of yet more perfectly great female options that make sense, and that's ignoring other great candidates that offer something new like the face of the manakete's Tiki, the insanely popular wyvern rider Camilla, or magic wielders Celica, Tharja and Micaiah. Much like Zelda there's an absolute treasure trove of female options here.

Akira Howard/Officer Howard comes in both male and female flavours and Astral Chain has a frankly insane amount of cool moveset potential between five different legions, dual character combat and the X Baton.

Nintendo really does seem to have some fantastic options for female characters that are currently being utterly ignored n discussion due to the Third Party hype train mowing down any discussion of some of these homegrown favourites.

 

[SirCamp]

Shall we talk about female first party characters then?

Toadette has risen up the ranks in recent years through Captain Toad, New Super Mario Bros, Odyssey and Mario Maker 2 she's become both a canon mainline cast member and the defacto player 4 of the series.
Let's not forget the internet losing their mind when she introduced the concept of Peachette too even if that was more squarely aimed at Bowser.

Pauline is currently being marketed to advertise Mario Kart Tour and was heavily leaned on for Mario Odyssey's advertising to the point I thought she was going to have a FAR bigger role than what she actually got. She was also the biggest Mario Tennis Aces DLC reveal so she's becoming somewhat of a "Superstar" in her own rights.

Dixie Kong is the first character I think of when I think Nintendo heroine. Not Peach, nor Zelda, nor Samus even. Dixie has been one of the very few Ninty girls to NOT get kidnapped through the years and unlike Samus there's no twist that she's a girl, she wears it on her sleeve.

Impa is one of the few reoccurring Zelda characters and has garnered fan support through...well mostly Hyrule Warriors if I'm honest.
Still she is undeniably a fierce warrior and with the focus in Zelda being Sheikah based in recent years it seems Impa is one of the more logical options if Zelda is ever allowed a newcomer.

Midna is currently an assist trophy but despite that she is easily one of the most popular fan favourite characters in all of Zelda, rivalling that of Skull Kid at the very top. She's also remained a popular choice for Smash speculation despite her game being far from the most recent entry.

Tetra is another ridiculously popular female character in the Zelda franchise although her fandom has quietened down a fraction just due to not wanting to add another

Spoiler

triforce wielder

to the limited Zelda pool.

There's a few other good options for female Zelda cast members outside the above such as Urbosa, Fi, Mipha, Ruto, Medli, Marin, Lana, Maron and Epona the freaking horse even, etc. Zelda is very much a goldmine for those seeking some fun female options.

We got Octoling who as discussed previously has a whole heap of options available to them as Inkling cannot quite portray everything from the game, and whilst there's now an Octoling Boy meaning we'd likely get both genders, the Splatoon community were begging for Octolings to become playable based entirely off Splatoon 1's Octoling girl enemies. Heck, the female characters are very much the default in Splatoon.

Then we have Elma who is capable of duel wielding blades, guns and riding in a freaking mecha as well as some other more spoilery abilities that we're not going to go into right now.

There's also Fiora and Pyra and Mythra but since I've played neither of those Xenoblades I feel unqualified to talk about them.

Springman, whilst the face of ARMS is far less popular than female fighters Twintelle and Minmin and Ribbon Girl is arguably as big a face as he is of the franchise seeing as how they both appear on the boxart and are the first fighters we meet.

You have traditionally more feminine Pokemon choices that have lasted the test of time with Gardevoir(who can still be male) and Eevee(who is far more likely to be male but insanely popular with female trainers from what I can tell).

I also find it INCREDIBLY ironic that whilst we ended up with Incineroar and everyone was predicting Decidueye would be the Pokemon newcomer when Ultimate was first announced, that the seemingly ignored other starter evolution; the feminine Primarina, was voted by Pokemon fans in Japan as THE most popular final evolution stage of the three ranking in as the third most popular Sun and Moon Pokemon. Rowlet was number one, but neither Decidueye nor Incineroar made the list.

Whilst Bandana Waddle Dee is inarguably the most popular Kirby choice, Adeleine managed to maintain fan interest despite not appearing for basically 18 years. Her reveal in Star Allies on Switch was a big deal to Kirby fans, and with the ability to paint minions and fight with them she has an almost unlimited potential moveset wise for Smash.

Fire Emblem! Yes, not everyone's favourite choice for a Nintendo newcomer, but between Byleth and Edelgard being the two most likely Fire Emblem candidates right now alongside Lyndis being the most popular Fire Emblem character(bar maybe Ike) and even Anna making ground between being Three Houses DLC and being a driving force in the mobile runaway success that is Fire Emblem Heroes, we have a handful of yet more perfectly great female options that make sense, and that's ignoring other great candidates that offer something new like the face of the manakete's Tiki, the insanely popular wyvern rider Camilla, or magic wielders Celica, Tharja and Micaiah. Much like Zelda there's an absolute treasure trove of female options here.

Akira Howard/Officer Howard comes in both male and female flavours and Astral Chain has a frankly insane amount of cool moveset potential between five different legions, dual character combat and the X Baton.

Nintendo really does seem to have some fantastic options for female characters that are currently being utterly ignored n discussion due to the Third Party hype train mowing down any discussion of some of these homegrown favourites.

Captain Syrup, Ashley, Mona, Rhythm Girl, Krystal, Octoling, the Squid Sisters, Viridi, Medusa, Sami, Adeleine, Style Savvy Stylist, Paula.

Some of those are fairly obscure, at least relatively speaking, but that’s just what I came up with off the top of my head to add to your list. I assume there are fzero character that fit the bill as well but I know nothing about the series. Point is there are lots of possibilities.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No matter how much personality she has in her home games, none of that really shines through in Smash, though.

I disagree.

 

[TheTuninator]

Beyond Octoling, Pearl and Marina definitely have to be near the top of a list of hypothetically possible new female reps. Both are great and extremely relevant characters with a ton of personality and charm, and any Splatoon rep has a great deal of moveset potential through tapping the vast array of Splatoon weapons not currently represented in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

There's no metric better than sales, and by sales it absolutely is the #4 IP right now. It blows away even mainstays like DK and Kirby, and isn't too far off Zelda. This isn't to say that it couldn't fall off in the future, of course, but if it maintains its current popularity it's unquestionably the #4 IP.

sure but why only focus on the now? that seems like picking a chosing

Kazooie also isn't the headliner character and absolutely plays second fiddle to Banjo despite making up a lot of his moveset. People really shouldn't use Kazooie as a counterpoint to "no female DLC characters" because the more you look at it as a rebuttal, the more it falls flat.

youll have to excuse me im used to thinking of them on an equal platform

I'm sorry, how do people refer to the character? I'm pretty sure I almost exclusively hear people refer to the pair as "Banjo", meaning Kazooie is an afterthought, if anything. You're only bringing up Kazooie when it's convenient.

cant speak for everyone but i always refer to them as banjo and kazooie, im not bringing her up when is convenient i was pointing out what i saw as an incorrect bit of information in a statement

Beyond Octoling, Pearl and Marina definitely have to be near the top of a list of hypothetically possible new female reps. Both are great and extremely relevant characters with a ton of personality and charm, and any Splatoon rep has a great deal of moveset potential through tapping the vast array of Splatoon weapons not currently represented in Smash.

im not sure relevancy matters to smash to much

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I assume there are fzero character that fit the bill as well but I know nothing about the series. Point is there are lots of possibilities.

Just gonna plug the Jody Summer thread here.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't own Mischief Makers. Thought they did for a long time, but it's actually Treasure's IP, so sadly we might not see anything from it.

Really, I think that's the only reason why Marina doesn't get that much support. If she were first party I could see her pulling in even Isaac numbers given the game's cult popularity.

It is unfortunate that Mischief Makers is relatively obscure to today's generation. I thought it was a great game back then. I hadn't really known who really owns the IP until now. Though it is weird that Nintendo doesn't own the series even though Treasure developed Sin & Punishment and Wario World. Marina would be a great choice for a female character. Enix did have a part in the game before it became a part of Square hence Square-Enix. At least there are some of us still maintaining some support for her.

Speaking of female characters, there are many choices out there and Nintendo should take the opportunity to bring more of them into the spotlight.

 

[NSSKG151]

Pretty much the only first party characters I would like to see be playable in Smash is Anna from Fire Emblem and any of Eevee/Sceptile/Lycanroc from Pokemon but uh...not really confident in any of them getting in through DLC. Most realistic first party character I wouldn't mind being future DLC for Smash Ultimate is Blyeth from Three Houses.

 

[PsychoJosh]

1. Lip
2. F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
3. Mona (Warioware)
4. Wario Land Wario
5. Funky Kong

Mach Rider and Takamaru would be cool too but they're not on my top 5. Another Punch-Out character could be cool as well. I'd love to play as King Hippo.

 

[PhantomShab]

Me when people don't understand what a female DLC character is.
View attachment 241296

Why don't you explain to me what a female dlc character is then.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Why don't you explain to me what a female dlc character is then.

A character who is female.

Banjo and Kazooie are a duo, one male, one female. Kazooie is not a playable character by herself.

 

[Sysreq]

Why don't you explain to me what a female dlc character is then.

In the context of Smash, a female character that doesn't have to play second fiddle to anyone.

 

[Zinith]

To say that you want a female dlc character because there aren't enough female fighters, that's fine.

To even want a character specifically because their female regardless of the amount that's already in Smash, that's fine too.

But to say you want one because you say the Fighter's Pass has none and you conveniently discount Kazooie because "duos," that's goalpost moving

 

[Sysreq]

To say that you want a female dlc character because there aren't enough female fighters, that's fine.

To even want a character specifically because their female regardless of the amount that's already in Smash, that's fine too.

But to say you want one because you say the Fighter's Pass has none and you conveniently discount Kazooie because "duos," that's goalpost moving

I disagree. Sure Kazooie is female, but you can't play as Kazooie. Let me put it this way: when I was a kid, I used to play Banjo-Tooie with my brother sometimes and we'd go to Witchy World and use the split up pads. Then we'd take turns playing as Banjo and Kazooie--him as Banjo and me as Kazooie and just mess around in Witchy World. You can't do that in Smash Bros. You have to play as Banjo and Kazooie. Get it? People who want female fighters want that "just Kazooie" experience.

 

[Zinith]

I disagree. Sure Kazooie is female, but you can't play as Kazooie. Let me put it this way: when I was a kid, I used to play Banjo-Tooie with my brother sometimes and we'd go to Witchy World and use the split up pads. Then we'd take turns playing as Banjo and Kazooie--him as Banjo and me as Kazooie and just mess around in Witchy World. You can't do that in Smash Bros. You have to play as Banjo and Kazooie. Get it? People who want female fighters want that "just Kazooie" experience.

Isn't the majority of the moveset her's anyways? There's little Banjo does besides move. Is that the standard? It only counts if the character moves and not how much they contribute to the moveset? We can probably agree that it doesn't mean Toad is a "playable character" due to his involvement with Peach and Daisy, but it's a matter of degree...

 

[Sysreq]

Isn't the majority of the moveset her's anyways? There's little Banjo does besides move. Is that the standard? It only counts if the character moves and not how much they contribute to the moveset? We can probably agree that it doesn't mean Toad is a "playable character" due to his involvement with Peach and Daisy, but it's a matter of degree...

I mean, I dunno, I think this is just a point we're going to disagree on. While I agree that she is heavily involved in the moveset, for much of it she is functionally Banjo's weapon. You could call that nitpicky, but like I said above, I'd prefer the female characters don't play second fiddle. I'd prefer people don't say things like "Banjo's awesome! He's so fun to play!" because, as I mentioned, Kazooie is just an afterthought.