no cause they dont own any copyright for that
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The First Party general support thread
- Thread starter NintenRob
- Start date
Pokelego999
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Explain Bayonetta 2
well i dont know much about the game but i think nintendo just published it, still owned by sega
Pokelego999
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Tecnically it gives them partial rights
do they appear any where on the copyright notices?
Oh, but don't you get it? This DLC needs to sell, and there just no way that people would pay money for some D-list Nintendo characters, because all the "important" ones are clearly already in the game. And there are definitely not going to be any new ones in the future, oh no.
Not my opinion, in case this isn't obvious. That's just how most discussion these days feels like whenever people suggest that hey, maybe we could/should get some more Nintendo characters for the Nintendo crossover game?
I would probably buy Bandana Dee individually, and maybe Corviknight. All others are just way too out there. CD-I Ganon meanwhile. . . no.
Astral Chain is a new Nintendo IP that they comissioned Platinum Games to develop. Hideki Kamiya himself clarified that asking for Astral Chain to get a PS4 port would be like asking for Mario and Zelda to come out for the Playstation as well.
Guynamednelson
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And yet these same people don't question Terry getting in before Heihachi.
I like SNK but I'm not gonna deny that the big three of traditional fighters are Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken. Notice something?
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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Astral Chain is first party, Nintendo owns the game and the IP outright.
Not true, the game and its characters still belong fully to Sega. At most, Nintendo might have exclusive publishing rights given that they funded it, but that just means they get to decide when and where a port would be released (for as long as the exclusivity lasts, as generally these things aren't arranged for perpetuity).
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This is the list that was on the OP, numbered for tallying.
Holy crap, y'all want a TON of characters in the game. The other lists in this thread, while substantially shorter, are almost never under 10 (unless a top 5 is happening). Just give me my Bandana boy and I'll be perfectly content. While I'm all for more characters, and I am familiar with and supportive of a majority of this list, we aren't going to get everybody. Just because we like a character in their source game doesn't mean that they should make the jump. Because in the end, we need icons. We can have first-party icons, and we can have third-party icons, but we cannot add first-parties for the sake of them being first party. We really gotta remember that not everybody is deserving of a spot. Even if the rights for the characters are easy to obtain, that cannot be the reasoning behind adding the character
For the record, I do not mean any hate. All of these characters listed are great, and are on here for a reason. I'm sure that if included, Sakurai would do a great job at giving them an inspired moveset with the necessary additional content. I myself would be incredibly stoked for 90% of those character's inclusions. But seeing them all bunched on the same list? Now we're pushing things. I know that you said you would be happy if any of these characters were added, but we really need to be better as fans for coming up with a few dedicated picks rather than catch-all wishlists. However, that is simply an opinion of mine, for I feel like we are giving too many characters too much credit, to the point where the notable first-parties are being surrounded by favorites that don't have much of a shot outside of their fan's circles.
Instead of somebody saying, "I want Ashley!" and somebody else saying, "You want Ashley? Cool, I actually want Takamaru.", we have more and more people just saying, "This may be a bit unique, but I actually want everybody at once." However, this is an unreasonable claim. Not everybody deserves a spot in the game, and even less will get in. While it's perfectly fine to hope for obscure characters such as Takamaru, please stop asking for as many characters as possible, especially bottom-of-the-barrel Nintendo picks. Takamaru would be cool have in the game; the support for him has been good enough to get him as an Assist Trophy. However, Takamaru simply isn't relevant enough to get into the game right now. If say a million people start campaigning for Takamaru, to the point where he becomes popular again, then we'll have a different situation, but I'm jumping the gun. I'm going to talk about relevance pretty soon.
Now please, criticize me. I'd love to be wrong here, and I'm confident that somebody is going to quote this post. In fact, I WANT to be wrong. I myself have a catch-all wishlist of 128 characters that I frequently do brackets with, and have played the games where these characters originated from. Some may say I know TOO many characters, especially after my time with Rate Their Chances. But in reality, there are far more iconic characters that are third party and aren't in Smash than their are first party and aren't in Smash.
My point is this. We as a community want everything. We have massive lists of characters that we want to see, and as our lists get longer and longer, the names on them become more and more obscure. In fairness, it is not bad to want obscure characters. In fact, it's actually really great for the characters to have fanbases. But when we lump them onto our list just because "we can", then we care less about relevancy, and more about quantity. And we need to focus more on the relevancy of character instead of wanting as many as we can name.
Here's the list on the first post, with the massive list of characters, which yes, it does include one-offs that the common player would have absolutely no clue who they were before they were in Smash.
Green names are notable and aren't in Smash
Red names are unnotable in my opinion.
So out of the given list, 10 were notable and aren't in Smash. Do I want them all? No; Pauline, while notable, doesn't have a large enough track record to make a good character, even if she is considered iconic from Odyssey and has been brought back into the spotlight by Nintendo.
Out of the list, 19 were neutral for notability. Nintendo games that have not had a representative in Smash, but are still moderately relevant fall under this category. These would be your W101s and your Rhythm Heavens. Also, big characters from games with low representation are also here, such as King Boo and Midna. Viridi is relevant from Smash itself (Palutena's Guidance), and while they may not be my personal pick for a third Kid Icarus character, is the third most known about one besides Pit and Palutena.
Now this is where things get upsetting for most people. This list has 30 characters that are not notable, which is triple the amount of notable characters, and more than the notable/neutral characters combined. Most people are going to hate my list of who I think is unnotable, and I do as well. Sceptile is my most wanted Pokemon of all time, but I have him as red? Why would I do that? Well, most Pokemon by themselves are inherently unnotable, sans Starter Pokemon / some Legendaries. Due to the sheer number of Pokemon present, consumers don't buy the game for an individual Pokemon, but for Pokemon in general. While an argument can be made that "people don't buy a game for the main character", the main characters of notable games become notable themselves. And a Pokemon has not been the main character of a game (besides Mystery Dungeon); the unnamed player char is. Next, there are mascots. Mascots can be notable and NOT be the player character. Pikachu is a mascot. Tapu Koko is not a mascot. Finally, the game itself has to be relevant, and not have JUST a cult following. We are not going to have a Diskun rave party upon their reveal.
Actually, the final final thing is that the character itself has to be relevant, and receive significant attention within the series as a whole. Paper Mario is the protagonist of a popular RPG ( / Platformer ) series that started out a couple years after the Banjo & Kazooie series. And unlike the Banjo & Kazooie series, Paper Mario still releases games to this day. No, I will not go into the quality of said games, but we know what I mean. Daroach has had a significant appearance in only one Kirby game (Mass Attack appearance's significance is debatable). Is Daroach a good character? Hell yeah, he's respected by the community, he has a Legend-class spirit in the game, and he was a Dream Friend in Star Allies. Now, is he relevant? If I show a picture of Daroach to a typical person who plays video games, what will they say? Will they say, "Oh yeah, that's Daroach! I know all about him." Will they say, "Is that like from Kirby or something?' Or will they say, "Looks like a Pokemon, but I don't know the name." For a character to be in the game, most people should be answering either of the first two responses. Recognizability is one of the key traits of a relevant character.
Now, my criteria isn't an all-encompassing doctrine. Banjo probably would have failed. However, if I showed a picture of Banjo Kazooie to a typical person who plays video games, the most likely response I would get would be, "Hey, that's Banjo Kazooie!" Banjo Kazooie is just really popular, and doesn't have just a cult-following. Geno is a popular character in their own right, and Lot7S is popular as well. Isaac... is... popular in Smash circles. Golden Sun itself isn't very relevant, as the series was small to begin with, and there hasn't been a new game in the last decade. However, Isaac as a character is popular here on Smashboards, and is one of the most requested characters here. Sure, Geno is popular here too. However, Geno is also popular outside of SB as well (as far as I'm aware), and we fail to remember that a following on Smashboards is still considered a cult following. The Waluigi requests go so very far beyond this forum, for one.
For everybody else who looks at my general list of relevant characters, please tell me which ones are wrong so that I can change it. While I know of all of the characters on the list, I have not played all the games, and my expertise may be limited in some areas. However, I do think that it is mandatory for a character to be green on my list to be added in the game. And, as somebody who has grown up playing chiefly Nintendo games, I REALLY want first parties, so much so that I may be biased in making too many characters green. (Bandana Dee my son, you will get the justice you deserve.) So please, correct me. I want as many characters as possible. But as some point, we need to step back and take a broader look at the characters that actually can be added by Nintendo. However, please don't stop requesting. Our community thrives on newcomer speculation. This is just a warning to not get carried away / angry that not all of your picks got in. I don't want any of those character communities to die, but to simply be aware.
Cheers!
~Utopian
Edit:
Edit 2:
Relevant characters are usually recent. Recent characters are not always relevant. Characters that are recent have a whole different set of roadblocks, but are still possible, but that's a discussion for another day. In the meantime, I'm only granting characters that have a green or blue (my text color) name a shot at getting into the game, with the green names checking all of the boxes.[/SPOILER]
- Skull Kid
- Bandana Dee
- King Boo
- Rex and Pyra
- Dixie Kong
- Impa
- Midna
- Dark Matter
- Elma
- Captain Toad
- Daroach
- Spring Man
- Fiora
- Ashley
- Isaac
- Saki
- Lip
- Marin
- Sceptile
- Decidueye
- Lyn
- Dimitri
- Gardevoir
- Victini
- Paula
- Doc Louis
- Porky
- Kamek
- Baby Mario (I actually really want him a lot)
- Paper Mario
- Funky Kong
- Tingle
- Sylux
- Krystal
- Andross
- Tapu Koko
- Black Shadow
- Tiki
- Medusa
- 9-volt
- Hades
- Tom Nook
- KK Slider
- Viridi
- Pretty much any of the Xenoblade party members (so happy that game is getting remade)
- Octoling
- Squid Sisters
- Takamaru
- Balloon Fighter
- Excite Biker
- Diskun
- Anything Rhythm Heaven
- Savvy Stylist
- Parabo and Satebo
- Wonder Red
- Chibi Robo
- Anna
- Waluigi
- Pauline
- Etc
- Etc
- Etc
Holy crap, y'all want a TON of characters in the game. The other lists in this thread, while substantially shorter, are almost never under 10 (unless a top 5 is happening). Just give me my Bandana boy and I'll be perfectly content. While I'm all for more characters, and I am familiar with and supportive of a majority of this list, we aren't going to get everybody. Just because we like a character in their source game doesn't mean that they should make the jump. Because in the end, we need icons. We can have first-party icons, and we can have third-party icons, but we cannot add first-parties for the sake of them being first party. We really gotta remember that not everybody is deserving of a spot. Even if the rights for the characters are easy to obtain, that cannot be the reasoning behind adding the character
For the record, I do not mean any hate. All of these characters listed are great, and are on here for a reason. I'm sure that if included, Sakurai would do a great job at giving them an inspired moveset with the necessary additional content. I myself would be incredibly stoked for 90% of those character's inclusions. But seeing them all bunched on the same list? Now we're pushing things. I know that you said you would be happy if any of these characters were added, but we really need to be better as fans for coming up with a few dedicated picks rather than catch-all wishlists. However, that is simply an opinion of mine, for I feel like we are giving too many characters too much credit, to the point where the notable first-parties are being surrounded by favorites that don't have much of a shot outside of their fan's circles.
Instead of somebody saying, "I want Ashley!" and somebody else saying, "You want Ashley? Cool, I actually want Takamaru.", we have more and more people just saying, "This may be a bit unique, but I actually want everybody at once." However, this is an unreasonable claim. Not everybody deserves a spot in the game, and even less will get in. While it's perfectly fine to hope for obscure characters such as Takamaru, please stop asking for as many characters as possible, especially bottom-of-the-barrel Nintendo picks. Takamaru would be cool have in the game; the support for him has been good enough to get him as an Assist Trophy. However, Takamaru simply isn't relevant enough to get into the game right now. If say a million people start campaigning for Takamaru, to the point where he becomes popular again, then we'll have a different situation, but I'm jumping the gun. I'm going to talk about relevance pretty soon.
Now please, criticize me. I'd love to be wrong here, and I'm confident that somebody is going to quote this post. In fact, I WANT to be wrong. I myself have a catch-all wishlist of 128 characters that I frequently do brackets with, and have played the games where these characters originated from. Some may say I know TOO many characters, especially after my time with Rate Their Chances. But in reality, there are far more iconic characters that are third party and aren't in Smash than their are first party and aren't in Smash.
My point is this. We as a community want everything. We have massive lists of characters that we want to see, and as our lists get longer and longer, the names on them become more and more obscure. In fairness, it is not bad to want obscure characters. In fact, it's actually really great for the characters to have fanbases. But when we lump them onto our list just because "we can", then we care less about relevancy, and more about quantity. And we need to focus more on the relevancy of character instead of wanting as many as we can name.
Here's the list on the first post, with the massive list of characters, which yes, it does include one-offs that the common player would have absolutely no clue who they were before they were in Smash.
Green names are notable and aren't in Smash
Red names are unnotable in my opinion.
- Skull Kid
- Bandana Dee
- King Boo
- Rex and Pyra
- Dixie Kong
- Impa
- Midna
- Dark Matter
- Elma
- Captain Toad
- Daroach
- Spring Man
- Fiora
- Ashley
- Isaac
- Saki
- Lip
- Marin
- Sceptile
- Decidueye
- Lyn
- Dimitri
- Gardevoir
- Victini
- Paula
- Doc Louis
- Porky
- Kamek
- Baby Mario (I actually really want him a lot)
- Paper Mario
- Funky Kong
- Tingle
- Sylux
- Krystal
- Andross
- Tapu Koko
- Black Shadow
- Tiki
- Medusa
- 9-Volt
- Hades
- Tom Nook
- KK Slider
- Viridi
- Pretty much any of the Xenoblade party members (so happy that game is getting remade)
- Octoling
- Squid Sisters
- Takamaru
- Balloon Fighter
- Excite Biker
- Diskun
- Anything Rhythm Heaven
- Savvy Stylist
- Parabo and Satebo
- Wonder Red
- Chibi Robo
- Anna
- Waluigi
- Pauline
So out of the given list, 10 were notable and aren't in Smash. Do I want them all? No; Pauline, while notable, doesn't have a large enough track record to make a good character, even if she is considered iconic from Odyssey and has been brought back into the spotlight by Nintendo.
Out of the list, 19 were neutral for notability. Nintendo games that have not had a representative in Smash, but are still moderately relevant fall under this category. These would be your W101s and your Rhythm Heavens. Also, big characters from games with low representation are also here, such as King Boo and Midna. Viridi is relevant from Smash itself (Palutena's Guidance), and while they may not be my personal pick for a third Kid Icarus character, is the third most known about one besides Pit and Palutena.
Now this is where things get upsetting for most people. This list has 30 characters that are not notable, which is triple the amount of notable characters, and more than the notable/neutral characters combined. Most people are going to hate my list of who I think is unnotable, and I do as well. Sceptile is my most wanted Pokemon of all time, but I have him as red? Why would I do that? Well, most Pokemon by themselves are inherently unnotable, sans Starter Pokemon / some Legendaries. Due to the sheer number of Pokemon present, consumers don't buy the game for an individual Pokemon, but for Pokemon in general. While an argument can be made that "people don't buy a game for the main character", the main characters of notable games become notable themselves. And a Pokemon has not been the main character of a game (besides Mystery Dungeon); the unnamed player char is. Next, there are mascots. Mascots can be notable and NOT be the player character. Pikachu is a mascot. Tapu Koko is not a mascot. Finally, the game itself has to be relevant, and not have JUST a cult following. We are not going to have a Diskun rave party upon their reveal.
Actually, the final final thing is that the character itself has to be relevant, and receive significant attention within the series as a whole. Paper Mario is the protagonist of a popular RPG ( / Platformer ) series that started out a couple years after the Banjo & Kazooie series. And unlike the Banjo & Kazooie series, Paper Mario still releases games to this day. No, I will not go into the quality of said games, but we know what I mean. Daroach has had a significant appearance in only one Kirby game (Mass Attack appearance's significance is debatable). Is Daroach a good character? Hell yeah, he's respected by the community, he has a Legend-class spirit in the game, and he was a Dream Friend in Star Allies. Now, is he relevant? If I show a picture of Daroach to a typical person who plays video games, what will they say? Will they say, "Oh yeah, that's Daroach! I know all about him." Will they say, "Is that like from Kirby or something?' Or will they say, "Looks like a Pokemon, but I don't know the name." For a character to be in the game, most people should be answering either of the first two responses. Recognizability is one of the key traits of a relevant character.
Now, my criteria isn't an all-encompassing doctrine. Banjo probably would have failed. However, if I showed a picture of Banjo Kazooie to a typical person who plays video games, the most likely response I would get would be, "Hey, that's Banjo Kazooie!" Banjo Kazooie is just really popular, and doesn't have just a cult-following. Geno is a popular character in their own right, and Lot7S is popular as well. Isaac... is... popular in Smash circles. Golden Sun itself isn't very relevant, as the series was small to begin with, and there hasn't been a new game in the last decade. However, Isaac as a character is popular here on Smashboards, and is one of the most requested characters here. Sure, Geno is popular here too. However, Geno is also popular outside of SB as well (as far as I'm aware), and we fail to remember that a following on Smashboards is still considered a cult following. The Waluigi requests go so very far beyond this forum, for one.
For everybody else who looks at my general list of relevant characters, please tell me which ones are wrong so that I can change it. While I know of all of the characters on the list, I have not played all the games, and my expertise may be limited in some areas. However, I do think that it is mandatory for a character to be green on my list to be added in the game. And, as somebody who has grown up playing chiefly Nintendo games, I REALLY want first parties, so much so that I may be biased in making too many characters green. (Bandana Dee my son, you will get the justice you deserve.) So please, correct me. I want as many characters as possible. But as some point, we need to step back and take a broader look at the characters that actually can be added by Nintendo. However, please don't stop requesting. Our community thrives on newcomer speculation. This is just a warning to not get carried away / angry that not all of your picks got in. I don't want any of those character communities to die, but to simply be aware.
Cheers!
~Utopian
Edit:
This is my point, but more blunt.
Edit 2:
Akira Howard
Andy
Toad
Samurai Goroh
Meowth
Byleth
Captain N
Fawful
Dark Bowser
Dark Meta Knight
Lugia
Bio-Rex
Edelgard
Muddy Mole
Geno
Andy
Toad
Samurai Goroh
Meowth
Byleth
Captain N
Fawful
Dark Bowser
Dark Meta Knight
Lugia
Bio-Rex
Edelgard
Muddy Mole
Geno
Last edited:
Yomi's Biggest Fan
See You Next Year, Baby
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> Style Savvy and Rex are likelier than Spring Man
> Fawful and Gardevior is likelier than Isaac
Just like that, you destroyed your own credibility for DLC predictions
> Fawful and Gardevior is likelier than Isaac
Just like that, you destroyed your own credibility for DLC predictions
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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Missing out on cool characters just because they're not iconic is boring. That kind of thought process doesn't give us R.O.B., or Pit, or Captain Falcon, and Smash would be worse off for that.
Takamaru's obscure. So what? He would be great to play, has a lot of potential for a cool stage and great music. It costs Nintendo no licensing money to include him.
Same with relevancy, just picking new characters makes for a very boring roster - it becomes predictable and starts feeling like a promotional machine. Not to mention that it means that characters that would have been perfectly qualified to get into a game didn't just because you can only have so many characters (think Brawl era).
Overall, the way you look at things imo makes for a dreadfully boring selection.
Guynamednelson
Smash Legend
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Not to mention, how is Sylux more notable than a lot of them? People mainly wanted Ridley out of Metroid's cast, with characters like Dark Samus being a plan B and Sylux demand dying down after both got confirmed until people thought no spirit=100% confirmed to be DLC.
Last edited:
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Likier? Nononononononono, I meant relevant. More people are aware of Fawful and Gardevoir in the general public than they are of Isaac. Instead offering destructive comments that are insults more than they are criticism, could you try to be a bit more constructive?
I'll admit I messed up with Spring Man. Spring Man is very relevant due to ARMS's breakout popularity. Will fix shortly, I highlighted that chunk of names as a group too hastily. Isaac stays. You must've missed this:
It was a bit of a hot take on my end, I will fully admit this. However, I think I know why you reacted as such.
I'm sorry that I used Takamaru as a bashing example. However, Takamaru isn't a sellable character. If he gets in though, that would be ultimately fantastic, and I would so incredibly happy for you and the Takamaru fans. However, it wouldn't be very profitable for Sora Ltd. That's all I'm trying to get across. This isn't a defining list of who can and cannot get in, but the green names simply make sense for inclusion, while the reds do not. (I probably contradicted something, but that is my final stance for now.)
Yep, yep. The green names are pretty boring, I won't lie. However, the green names are the most relevant characters that Nintendo still holds onto. I probably needed to clarify that I'm not writing the Commandments of character inclusion. Most of my most wanted characters are actually in the red. I so incredibly want a final evolved Grass starter in the game that I cannot stop talking (exaggeration) about how Grookey is my favorite starter. Sceptile is my personal pick, and I love what they did in Pokken with him. However, they aren't relevant, and probably wouldn't net a lot of sales. Now, props to the Sceptile supporters for still holding on! I still totally support Sceptile! But would Nintendo really go and add another Pokemon as a DLC and expect to make good money? Probably not.
Exactly.
Exactly
Exactly. These are all true statements. However, Takamaru would still need to be developed and animated and added as a character, and ultimately, Nintendo is going to prioritize the most popular characters / characters that are predicted to engross a large audience. There is still a limit to how many can be added. Takamaru wouldn't be a priority. I think I covered that here:
Agree to disagree. Would adding Waluigi into Ultimate be promotional because everybody wanted him to be playable?
For first parties, the list of popular, recognizable characters that would sell well and aren't in the game is getting pretty limited. However, I'm sure that Sakurai could make this work. I would love to be wrong; I think the list is boring as well. But from an unbiased perspective, there aren't many icons left that Nintendo owns and aren't in the game. Once again, I mentioned how Banjo would fail my criteria, and so would ROB and Pit in the Brawl days. But they turned out to be fantastic characters, and the dev team breathed inspiration into them both. This isn't 100% accurate, and I see where you're coming from. But this is the reason why people have been branching out to speculating about third-parties, and so has Nintendo.
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Sylux is only blue due to it being implied that he is the villain of Metroid Prime 4. When it comes out, Sylux will be relevant. Maybe I jumped the gun on this a bit, as MP4 isn't going to be here in time before the DLC ends for Ultimate.
YoshiandToad
Smash Hero
I was about to shake my head at you for downplaying Captain Toad as a neutral character of importance when he managed to get his own spinoff, but I can understand the thought process when I saw Toad was added as significant afterwards.
It's arguable which one should be in really and I'd expect if Toad got in, we'd still get a Captain(and Toadette) alt chucked in for fun.
Regarding the amount of choices; I think part of the issue with rallying behind a certain few is that everyone is very split on their own personal wants and desires. Whilst I actually 100% agree with your list(even if I see Toad and Captain Toad as pretty interchangable as 'The Toad' and Nook as fairly important to the Animal Crossing series), I can't blame people for wanting to see obscure individuals get chosen such as what happened with Pit and the Ice Climbers.
I do, however, think they're an AWFUL idea for DLC as DLC has to sell to the masses so the more famous or popular faces would be a far better business decision than someone who isn't universally recognised such as what happened with Corrin.
Doesn't mean it will neccesarily not sell, but a more famed individual will most likely sell better than someone people are unfamiliar with. So if Nintendo is looking at first party for any DLC, I imagine it'd prioritise either games it wants to promote(Astral Chain and Three Houses), famous faces (Toad, Dixie, Dee, Waluigi, etc) or Smash fanbase favourites who have made it clear they want and will pay for the character(Isaac and Waluigi again).
Let me know if I'm on the right track with your thinking here. Interesting food for thought.
GoodGrief741
Smash Legend
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I don't agree with the idea that characters need to be known to sell. This is a fighting game we're talking about, most people will just buy characters if they like the playstyle. Even if you disagree, selling characters like Lucas and Roy for Smash 4 probes that yeah, they do. Smash has always included obscure characters and clearly that hasn't affected their bottom line.
As for the promotional thing: adding one relevant, popular character is not what I said, what I said is that if most or all the characters you add are recent, it's going to start feeling that way (Smash 4's roster got complaints about this).
not everybody
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Actually, you 100% nailed my thought process! I don't think obscure picks are impossible, this much is true. However, the obscure picks usually are put into the base roster, and not added as DLC.
I, too, am highly biased, but I try more and more to be less biased as I learn about different characters and play different games.
My very first list of my most wanted characters was this, back in 2017 before I was on the site.
- Bomberman
- Sceptile
- Paper Mario
- Isaac
- Shovel Knight
- Ashley
- Simon Belmont
- Krystal
- Knuckles
- Ice Climbers
- Rayman
- Mach Rider
- Dillon
- Inkling
- Midna
- Cid
- Shantae
- Daisy
- Magnus
- Master Chief
- King K. Rool
- Andy
- Tetra
- Spring Man
- Bandana Dee
- Karate Joe
- Rayman
- Impa
- Elma
- Professor Layton
- Crash Bandicoot
- Lloyd Irving
- Spyro
- Phoenix Wright
- Steve
- Slippy Toad
- Edelgard
- Sylux
- Sceptile
- 9-Volt
- King Boo
- Lara Croft
- Dixie Kong
- Tails Prower
- Chorus Kids
- Noctis Caelum
- Reimu Hakurei
- Jin Kazama
I share this sentiment as well. Even if I said everything I did, that doesn't mean that I want it to happen, and it would be a huge loss of opportunity if they fill the Smash Bros roster with the Mario Kart roster. But in the end, those are the characters that the public knows from Nintendo.
Once again, we are on the same page. Bringing in Akira Howard or Edelgard would be great moves for Nintendo, and the famous faces (who I feel like it would be hilarious to dub the Mario Kart cast) would also sell well, as those are the characters that they are familiar with. And finally, Banjo was saved for the Smash fanbase favorites, and Waluigi is likely to fill that role later. But I mean, people were upset about Isaac's AT, but they weren't as furious about the Waluigi fans... not many people talk about Golden Sun these days.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to understand my viewpoint on how DLC will look in the future! Do I want that to be true? Of course not! There are plenty of Nintendo characters that I loved as a kid and would love to see them make the jump, but it doesn't seem possible at this stage in the post-launch DLC selection.
True, you have very valid points with Lucas and Roy. Ness / Marth players would have downloaded them to try out a different moveset. However, the problem with these examples is that Lucas and Roy already had the groundwork laid for them. These two were already developed in a past game, and it's much easier to port a character over than to come up with a new design/models/animations for a new moveset, and to spend the money and time to do so.
Not simply recent, Corrin came under fire for ONLY being recent upon release. They need to be popular and relevant as well, as said here:
Once again, I see where you're coming from, and I'm glad we can have a discussion about this. This is something that I have felt looming in my gut when I saw so many first party characters get nominated during the RTC DLC season, but I couldn't really voice my thoughts there.
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It was a hyperbole to illustrate a point. Now it seems as if straws are being grasped to discredit my thoughts.
Guynamednelson
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Roy isn't as good of an example as Lucas. They made a new appearance for him, as well as overhauling his animations/gameplay differences to bring him up to Brawl clone standards as well as Melee Roy having some bad hitbox issues.
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Fair, the Melee model of Roy was miles behind how he looked when he was added in Smash 4. He was completely redesigned from the ground up aamof.
GoodGrief741
brings up an excellent point*, and it one that I cannot actually deny. It's really hard to prove that Nintendo only adds DLC that would sell well, and it's a concept that I cannot support internally as a player of the game. As a player, I want Nintendo to deliver a stellar game with a selection of characters that appeals to everyone. But in the end, Nintendo also wants the game to profit. So I can't simply say the latter is true without considering why Lucas and Roy were added, as profit couldn't have been the only goal. So yes, this is a sticking point, and is definitely a weak area in my hottest take yet.But still, I stand by my claim. Even if Roy's inclusion contradict the idea that all characters need to be wellknown to sell, Roy was already well known by the Smash community. Even if I can't provide Nintendo's motive right now, I will say that Roy never would have been added as DLC if he wasn't already in Melee. So because of this, his inclusion in Melee must have laid some groundwork for Roy's development, and I find this very hard to deny.
*this point
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its not a discredit its a disclaimer
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Fine.
Would adding Waluigi be promotional due to the overwhelming outcry for him to be playable?
GoodGrief741
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Even when most characters were relevant and popular, people still complained about the fact that Smash 4 leaned heavily on only relevant characters (for first-party, as third-parties bar Ryu and Bayonetta were not really). I'd even go as far as saying that the backlash at just the right point were contributing factors to K. Rool's peak popularity during the Ballot times.
As for the other part, yeah, maybe Lucas cost less to develop (I doubt Roy did, considering his original moveset and heavy redesign), but it still means Nintendo figured a character only really demanded by the Smash fandom and the Mother fandom would make enough cash. So somebody like Isaac or Saki isn't in a very different position.
YoshiandToad
Smash Hero
To be totally fair, I'm not sure if Lucas and Roy would have sold as well if they were newcomers rather than veterans that people were missing. Mewtwo almost definitely would though as he's a universally well known character and Lucas and Roy are semi clone characters from games many in the west didn't get to experience.
They'd likely be snatched up by Smashers who want a full roster but I imagine Roy would have been met with confusion more than unbridled joy since he was neither the latest Fire Emblem protagonist(that being Chrom at the time) nor the most popular(Lyndis) and western fans may have even got him confused for his father since we only got half the Elibe games.
However! If Waluigi Pinball gets announced later this year as Waluigi's starring debut game and Waluigi is revealed for Smash a week later with a moveset exclusively based around that? Then yeah, I'd count that as promotional even if it's a bit more of a grey area for me.
I remember feeling a little similar when Rosalina got revealed for Sm4sh mere weeks after being announced as a playable character inSuper Mario 3D World and Nintendo suddenly started promoting her in everything and anything Mario.
They'd likely be snatched up by Smashers who want a full roster but I imagine Roy would have been met with confusion more than unbridled joy since he was neither the latest Fire Emblem protagonist(that being Chrom at the time) nor the most popular(Lyndis) and western fans may have even got him confused for his father since we only got half the Elibe games.
Waluigi, and the ones you've nicknamed the Mario Kart crew, I personally wouldn't classify as 'promotional' for the most part. The characters are being used constantly regardless of appearing in Smash or not, so I guess to bring back an old Smashboards terminology they are always 'relevant'.
However! If Waluigi Pinball gets announced later this year as Waluigi's starring debut game and Waluigi is revealed for Smash a week later with a moveset exclusively based around that? Then yeah, I'd count that as promotional even if it's a bit more of a grey area for me.
I remember feeling a little similar when Rosalina got revealed for Sm4sh mere weeks after being announced as a playable character inSuper Mario 3D World and Nintendo suddenly started promoting her in everything and anything Mario.
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NintenZ
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Yikes, your thought-process is super flawed and kinda close-minded, relying a lot on your own personal Echo chambers rather than what’s actually important to think about.
Like no offense Elma would not happen before Fiora and saying Kamek is more notable than Takamaru is just... Nah bro...
Alright! Got plenty of Nintendo characters on my mind:
Ayumi Tachibana
DeMille
Style Savvy rep
Celica
Byleth
Anna
Porky
Qbby
Sirfetch’d
Adeleine and Ribbon
Slippy
Euden
Ayumi Tachibana
DeMille
Style Savvy rep
Celica
Byleth
Anna
Porky
Qbby
Sirfetch’d
Adeleine and Ribbon
Slippy
Euden
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Zinith
Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
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For a character that actually got his name in the goddamn title of a Yoshi game, Poochy is extremely overlooked 
NintenZ
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Anyways, here are my most wanted first-parties:
-Toadette
-Poochy
-Dixie Kong
-Tetra
-Bandana Dee
-Eevee
-Zoroark
-Lyndis
-Byleth
-Viridi
-Ashley
-Alph (As a single character)
-Tom Nook
-Ring Fit Trainer
-Fiora
-Elma
-Octoling
-Euden
-Akira Howard
-Takamaru
-Nikki
-Arcade Bunny
(If you can tell I want Smash to have more females lmao)
-Toadette
-Poochy
-Dixie Kong
-Tetra
-Bandana Dee
-Eevee
-Zoroark
-Lyndis
-Byleth
-Viridi
-Ashley
-Alph (As a single character)
-Tom Nook
-Ring Fit Trainer
-Fiora
-Elma
-Octoling
-Euden
-Akira Howard
-Takamaru
-Nikki
-Arcade Bunny
(If you can tell I want Smash to have more females lmao)
YoshiandToad
Smash Hero
To be honest even as a fellow Yoshi fan I'm not entirely sure what Poochy could do outside being a battering ram and his general immunity to lava and poison which I'm not sure would translate to a fighter. I guess he could dig and lick? How would you envision him playing as a fighter?For a character that actually got his name in the goddamn title of a Yoshi game, Poochy is extremely overlooked
Is this thread okay to discuss and explore some of these characters ideas
NintenRob
?
Mariomaniac45213
The Nintendo Villain main!
Why do people want Byleth another blue haired Swordsman over any of the House Leaders? Claude uses the bow which could make a unique moveset, Edelgard uses an axe, and Dimitri uses a lance. Way better than another FE Avatar character. We already have Robin and Corrin who both fill that role and are much more unique. Yeah Byleth has "The Sword of the Creator" but is that really enough to make him stand out over the other Sword characters? I personally dont think so.
Also why are we arguing about whether Nintendo characters will sell DLC or whether these characters are D-list or not? Most Smash fans bought the Fighters Pass without knowing who the **** they were gonna get. They bought it blind so obviously they are okay with anyone they decide to add just so they can have a full roster. Also the idea that just because your 3rd party means your automatically well known is laughable. No one knew who Bayonetta was before Smash besides her small dedicated fanbase. Joker is from a fairly niche JRPG series, Hero is very unknown outside of Japan as DQ is not big over here in the slightest, No one outside of Latin America knows or cares about Terry Bogard/SNK/Fatal Fury/KOF. Banjo has been the most well known/hyped character in the DLC pack by far and thats saying something considering Banjo hasnt had a new game since 2008.
At this point it just feels like Nintendo is adding 3rd party characters just to add them. Banjo and Hero were the only highly requested characters added as DLC. Its not like Nintendo is going after the BIG highly requested 3rd party characters like Sora, Crash, Spyro, Master Chief, Minecraft Steve, or Doom Guy. We've been getting the table scraps of 3rd party characters. So IMO a Dixie Kong or a Bandana Dee or a Waluigi or a Pig Ganon, or a Captain Toad have about the same reach/appeal as a Terry, Bayonetta, or Joker did/do.
Also why are we arguing about whether Nintendo characters will sell DLC or whether these characters are D-list or not? Most Smash fans bought the Fighters Pass without knowing who the **** they were gonna get. They bought it blind so obviously they are okay with anyone they decide to add just so they can have a full roster. Also the idea that just because your 3rd party means your automatically well known is laughable. No one knew who Bayonetta was before Smash besides her small dedicated fanbase. Joker is from a fairly niche JRPG series, Hero is very unknown outside of Japan as DQ is not big over here in the slightest, No one outside of Latin America knows or cares about Terry Bogard/SNK/Fatal Fury/KOF. Banjo has been the most well known/hyped character in the DLC pack by far and thats saying something considering Banjo hasnt had a new game since 2008.
At this point it just feels like Nintendo is adding 3rd party characters just to add them. Banjo and Hero were the only highly requested characters added as DLC. Its not like Nintendo is going after the BIG highly requested 3rd party characters like Sora, Crash, Spyro, Master Chief, Minecraft Steve, or Doom Guy. We've been getting the table scraps of 3rd party characters. So IMO a Dixie Kong or a Bandana Dee or a Waluigi or a Pig Ganon, or a Captain Toad have about the same reach/appeal as a Terry, Bayonetta, or Joker did/do.
I don't see why not, I just wanted a place to talk about first party characters without someone screaming "ASSIST, THIRD PARTY, GAMING CROSSOVER, NEEDS TO SELL"To be honest even as a fellow Yoshi fan I'm not entirely sure what Poochy could do outside being a battering ram and his general immunity to lava and poison which I'm not sure would translate to a fighter. I guess he could dig and lick? How would you envision him playing as a fighter?
Is this thread okay to discuss and explore some of these characters ideas
He also has the ability to rewind time and lead battalions of soldiers.
Mamboo07
Smash Hero
Or both of them if that's alright.
Btw should i fix my Fighters Pass by replacing some of the characters with different ones? (Especially T. Rex and CD-I Ganon which when too far.)
Here is it if you forget.
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Really? Hm, that's interesting. Could you explain what you mean a bit more? At this point in Smash's life, Nintendo was still relying on first parties. Sure, everybody loved Sonic and Snake from Brawl, but I thought there was a great amount of third party to go with the first party. I don't remember hear a complaint about "too much first party", but maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say.
This is true, Nintendo did really bet on the fans here. And yes, I'll say that Isaac and Saki are far more likely due to the integral role they have had in Smash games than what they wouldn't have. The part in which we will disagree, though, is that Lucas and Roy sold far better due to them previously existing as fighters. The community knew exactly what they were getting, and were puzzled why they were excluded from subsequent games. But to that point, Nintendo relied on the Smash fandom as you stated to carry the sales. Lucas and Roy still had the advantage of already being at the fighter status, one that Saki and Isaac have yet to obtain. Hopefully Isaac will make it into Smash 6.
Once again, thank you for communicating your points effectively. While we may disagree here or there, I'm glad we could find some common ground. Sure, Nintendo doesn't look ONLY to making money while designing new fighters. However, could we agree that the DLC characters are designed to be relevant, popular picks that Nintendo thinks will sell well? I mean, there's a reason why Incineroar was on the base roster when Banjo Kazooie was DLC.
On the other hand, we have...
With this first word, it is pretty clear what type of comment this is going to be.
If you wouldn't mind, could you quote some examples of my flawed logic? I believe anything that may have been flawed has been worked out through constructive discussion, and I'm not convinced by this when you simply state that my thinking is "super flawed" without evidence.
Now, I believe I stated that while I strived to be as unbiased as possible, there was destined to be some bias. I cannot deny this, and this targets my list simply because I am a human who has opinions. I made a mistake with Spring Man, and I demoted Sylux to red, but after that, I believe my list is fairly accurate. If there is something important to think about in which you elude to, I would love to here it, as I am hoping to make my list of relevancy as accurate as possible, and I wrote it thinking that I was missing something. Hopefully we can get the list finalized together in the future.
None taken, I was expecting something like this as my post was controversial in nature, and I just hoped that I wouldn't be too terribly flamed.
Disagree. Why would Fiora be more likely? But this is besides the point. You must have missed that my list WAS NOT about the likelihood, but simply the relevance of the characters. I would prefer if some red names got in, and there are some green names that I despise. I simply labeled the picks with colors to show which remaining first-parties still held decent relevancy, and Fiora does not.
Yes bro, Kamek is far more notable than Takamaru. Takamaru itself is only notable from three sources: a minigame in Nintendo Land, a sound effect in Mario Maker 2, and a costume / AT in Ultimate. Sadly, The Mysterious Muresame Castle is not a notable game. While it may be a classic Famicom game, it is not relevant in this day and age no matter what way you slice it. And a character from the 80s with obscure cameo appearances (because let's face it, most costumes are considered "obscure references" to casual Smash fans who aren't on this forum) cannot be more popular than a recurring villain from the Yoshi series, with appearances in Mario Party, and Mario Kart series as a host and racer respectively.
Yet, Takamaru would be a much better fit for Smash than Kamek would. I cannot deny this. However, Takamaru is one of the more obscure characters that Smash fans petition for, having more of a cult following than a general following.
Hopefully these followup comments can give you a better insight in what I was trying to get at with my post, no matter how hot of a take it was. I don't mean any hate at all, and each person has there own opinions. I was just trying to provide general outlooks for most of the first-party characters that get thrown around, and why Nintendo probably will focus their additions on third parties.
Guynamednelson
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But why does it have to be 6, which will be in 10 years? The fact that it's an AT being promoted can be appealing on its own without people knowing who Isaac is. (Granted, the likes of Waluigi or certain Poke Ball mons would be better at this, but the public isn't programmed to reject Smash Bubble picks.) Hell, do you think ANY Ice Climbers fans are actually fans of their origin game?
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Zinith
Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T
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He would probably use elements from Yoshi games that aren't represented in Yoshi's own moveset, like the bubbles and Poochy pups. He could also use his tail for combat and flight (as Crafted World demonstrated)To be honest even as a fellow Yoshi fan I'm not entirely sure what Poochy could do outside being a battering ram and his general immunity to lava and poison which I'm not sure would translate to a fighter. I guess he could dig and lick? How would you envision him playing as a fighter?
Is this thread okay to discuss and explore some of these characters ideas
NintenZ
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Thank you, I strive to be dominant ya know?
Wasn’t originally gonna but if I really have to...
This, you can’t dictate if a character can be a good playable character just because you don’t see their potential, if Sakurai can make them work then that’s that and imo they could have her use the Minis from MvDK and have her use items like her handbag or parasol for her moveset, I feel she can work.
While this is kinda true, Smash itself is not a measure for relevancy, rather the game’s other characters appear in are used for that, I love Viridi and she’s the best choice for a KI rep but I cannot see her unless she has another game.
And yet they got in Smash before Paper Mario did, see where your argument comes down here?
I don’t really understand this... Golden Sun is a cult classic RPG series whereas Geno is a one-off obscure side character from an RPG made over two decades ago, I feel like Isaac is more well-known outside of Smash circles but tbh that isn’t really saying much...
Sure that’s fine, I’m happy you’re receptive to feedback.
Oh no I wasn’t trying to flame, I was just a little... Surprised I guess...? Idk I just felt a lot of the things were really subjective and was taken aback, no hard feelings.
Elma’s last game was almost half a decade ago, she made an appearance in Xenoblade 2 and was a Smash Spirit and that’s it.
Fiora however will appear next year in the Xenoblade 1 remake and she also appeared in Project X Zone 2 beforehand, in addition to her appearance in Xenoblade 2 and her making a cameo in Smash’s base game.
I wouldn’t mind Elma at all, she’s cool and I loved her as a character, just thinking about things logistically I see Fiora beforehand is all.
The thing with Kamek though is that he’s a minor character outside of the Yoshi’s Island games and usually just appears as a segue for boss or level transitions, Takamaru however is a main character and while he’s more obscure, Smash does tend to focus on heroes and leads first and foremost and additionally he has made a small resurgence to the point where Sakurai has considered him.
In hindsight however a better comparison would’ve been Tom Nook, one of the faces of Animal Crossing and will be relevant because of him being front-and-center in New Horizons, so I’m willing to disregard the Takamaru thing in his favor.
It’s okay, I understand where you were coming from now, and I apologize if I seemed brash or anything I was just a little... Shocked by how bold it was
Anyways, hope all is good now, I’d be more than happy to help improve this so we can be able to track what characters are currently in the limelight!
CureParfait
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My most wanted first party character is Darkrai.
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True, Isaac would be a cool pick as an assist trophy to elevate. He has enough source game content to go off of, a decent cult following, and would be the first fighter from Golden Sun to make it in! I would buy that any day!
But would everybody else? Sure, I was bummed about Isaac not making the cut. A majority of casual Smash fans were bummed about Isaac not making the cut. I was also bummed about Waluigi not making the cut. A majority of casual Smash fans were ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS about Waluigi not making the cut. Additionally, Waluigi is already highly relevant outside of Smash circles, while Golden Sun's most recent entry was a 2010 RPG with mediocre sales.
But I still want Isaac far more than I do Waluigi. But then again, I'm a Smashboards user. And it makes the most sense for Isaac to be added to the Smash 6 base roster.
Nope, I do not. But I don't have any gripes with the Melee roster selection team, in which the roster was 100% first party and were just looking for choices. Ice Climbers was a fun addition back then (even though I was too young to play the game at that time, but this is besides the point.) Now, we have Ice Climbers, who were cut. But then, we have Everyone is Here. Note the wording, and how it isn't Everyone is Here except for Ice Climbers. Ice Climbers are a Smash Bros staple, thanks to the Melee developers. Because of that, they are popular. They don't even need a base game to do so. But if Ice Climbers wasn't already in, they surely wouldn't have joined for Ultimate, and would have been in the same boat as Takamaru. You need to be popular to make the jump, but you DON'T need to be popular to stay in the game if you're already in. Take Captain Falcon for that matter.