The First Party general support thread

[chocolatejr9]

Nah, there's a list of in-universe rules Sakurai has to adhere to or else the roster will forever be tainted.

Some would argue the roster has BEEN tainted...

 

[Ura]

Some would argue the roster has BEEN tainted...

Oh well, i'm not one of those people then lol. I didn't even mind the Plant that much.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I didn't even mind the Plant that much.

Yeah, it's not the plant I have a problem with as much as it is wrong monster from Not Hawaii.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Yeah, it's not the plant I have a problem with as much as it is wrong monster from Not Hawaii.

Pretty much the only reason I excused Incineroar was the fact that it's the first cat added to the roster to balance out the numerous dogs unless you want to count Mewtwo. (I don't hate dogs though, I'm both a cat and dog person and I actually owned dogs for longer). But yeah, I'm pretty much done on anymore Pokemon after that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But yeah, I'm pretty much done on anymore Pokemon after that.

I would be if they made the right choice. But they didn't, and now they must atone for their In-sin.

Also daily reminder that the people complaining about Pokemon not just having the most basic of basic representation want Mario to not.

 

[fogbadge]

Some would argue the roster has BEEN tainted...

yeah mewtwo was an awful idea

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah I've been noticing a larger lack of first parties in non-first party specific directs as well. This just doesn't look like a good time for Nintendo fans in general. I'm hoping we're a bit more fortunate with Nintendo in general at the February direct, but I'm keeping my expectations low as usual.

I'm confused as hell by this comment. Has 2019 not been an excellent year with Nintendo? And the Switch generation nothing but a marked improvement over the Wii U in regards to consistent top notch first party output. I mean, just this last year alone, from Nintendo we've gotten:

-Yoshi's Crafted World
-Boxboy and Boxgirl
-Nintendo LABO VR
-Super Mario Maker 2
-Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 (They directly published this and were responsible for it, so it deserves to be here)
-Fire Emblem Three Houses
-Astral Chain (They own the IP)
-Super Kirby Clash
-The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
-The Stretchers
-Luigi's Mansion 3
-Ring Fit Adventure
-Pokemon Sword and Shield

And we certainly still have more on the way with Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, and Animal Crossing New Horizons all already confirmed for 2020.

What more are you expecting Nintendo to do exactly at this point? They're putting out an incredibly consistent output of titles big and small in addition to choosing to highlight a whole lot of third party titles that fill gaps that they just can't fill because they have so many other things in development or recently released. Exactly how much more fortunate do you need to be? Nintendo always plays things close to the chest too, so we know there will be more to come in upcoming directs...

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

I'm confused as hell by this comment. Has 2019 not been an excellent year with Nintendo? And the Switch generation nothing but a marked improvement over the Wii U in regards to consistent top notch first party output. I mean, just this last year alone, from Nintendo we've gotten:

-Yoshi's Crafted World
-Boxboy and Boxgirl
-Nintendo LABO VR
-Super Mario Maker 2
-Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 (They directly published this and were responsible for it, so it deserves to be here)
-Fire Emblem Three Houses
-Astral Chain (They own the IP)
-Super Kirby Clash
-The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
-The Stretchers
-Luigi's Mansion 3
-Ring Fit Adventure
-Pokemon Sword and Shield

And we certainly still have more on the way with Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, and Animal Crossing New Horizons all already confirmed for 2020.

What more are you expecting Nintendo to do exactly at this point? They're putting out an incredibly consistent output of titles big and small in addition to choosing to highlight a whole lot of third party titles that fill gaps that they just can't fill because they have so many other things in development or recently released. Exactly how much more fortunate do you need to be? Nintendo always plays things close to the chest too, so we know there will be more to come in upcoming directs...

Idk I just didn't think there were that many until seeing the list put in front of me. Maybe it was just me looking back with rose-tinted lenses or something. Never mind what I said. Didn't mean to sound entitled.

 

[Zinith]

I'm confused as hell by this comment. Has 2019 not been an excellent year with Nintendo? And the Switch generation nothing but a marked improvement over the Wii U in regards to consistent top notch first party output. I mean, just this last year alone, from Nintendo we've gotten:

-Yoshi's Crafted World
-Boxboy and Boxgirl
-Nintendo LABO VR
-Super Mario Maker 2
-Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 (They directly published this and were responsible for it, so it deserves to be here)
-Fire Emblem Three Houses
-Astral Chain (They own the IP)
-Super Kirby Clash
-The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
-The Stretchers
-Luigi's Mansion 3
-Ring Fit Adventure
-Pokemon Sword and Shield

And we certainly still have more on the way with Tokyo Mirage Sessions, Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition, and Animal Crossing New Horizons all already confirmed for 2020.

What more are you expecting Nintendo to do exactly at this point? They're putting out an incredibly consistent output of titles big and small in addition to choosing to highlight a whole lot of third party titles that fill gaps that they just can't fill because they have so many other things in development or recently released. Exactly how much more fortunate do you need to be? Nintendo always plays things close to the chest too, so we know there will be more to come in upcoming directs...

I'm actually gonna have to agree with this. Regardless of how the Smash team sees new first-party picks going forward, Nintendo itself is not in any dire straits...

 

[fogbadge]

I'm actually gonna have to agree with this. Regardless of how the Smash team sees new first-party picks going forward, Nintendo itself is not in any dire straits...

is that gif in your sig based on rythm paradise?

 

[Zinith]

is that gif in your sig based on rythm paradise?

It's from that fanmade Rhythm Heaven tribute for Smash, so...... I guess

 

[fogbadge]

It's from that fanmade Rhythm Heaven tribute for Smash, so...... I guess

love it

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, I don't know what the general consensus is on Dragalia Lost in this thread, but it's Nintendo's first original IP on mobile devices, so it's technically first-party. Anyway, there's a countdown of some sort on the games's website, that I believe goes down to Christmas Eve/Day, depending on your timezone (I would be talking about this on the Euden support thread, but I was the last person to comment there, and I don't know the rules about double-posting). Now, I wouldn't get my hopes TOO high, but honestly we need to know Fighter 5 relatively soon, if they're going to release them by February. Although I will admit, that is grasping a bit.

https://dragalialost.com/sp/en/event/countdown/

 

[PhantomShab]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit and it would "go against the lore" and that's why the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4 don't matter because SpIrIts aRe ImpORtanT to ThE LoRE when there are literally Kirby clone battles in World of Light despite the fact that he never got captured, SMH.

Not to mention that it apparently makes plenty of sense for 8 different colored versions of the same character to all be fighting each other.

I honestly can't imagine anyone actually giving a single **** about the lore of a bunch of png files unless it was to disingenuously detract from a character they don't like.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

So, I don't know what the general consensus is on Dragalia Lost in this thread, but it's Nintendo's first original IP on mobile devices, so it's technically first-party. Anyway, there's a countdown of some sort on the games's website, that I believe goes down to Christmas Eve/Day, depending on your timezone (I would be talking about this on the Euden support thread, but I was the last person to comment there, and I don't know the rules about double-posting). Now, I wouldn't get my hopes TOO high, but honestly we need to know Fighter 5 relatively soon, if they're going to release them by February. Although I will admit, that is grasping a bit.

https://dragalialost.com/sp/en/event/countdown/

I don't think it means Dragalia in Smash, but it would be awesome if it was (also double posting isn't allowed, but I'll post about it there for you)

 

[Diddy Kong]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit and it would "go against the lore" and that's why the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4 don't matter because SpIrIts aRe ImpORtanT to ThE LoRE when there are literally Kirby clone battles in World of Light despite the fact that he never got captured, SMH.

No seriously, how on earth is that supposed to work? That's a plot hole bigger than the one in Kirby's stomach.

Great point.

Let's bring Isaac, Dixie and Impa now.

 

[Perkilator]

Great point.

Let's bring Isaac, Dixie and Impa now.

Their fighter Spirits can just be their Smash renders, just like Cloud and Robin.

 

[NintenRob]

I'm just gonna share this again. I feel it covers me pretty well as far as supposed deconfirmations go

 

[Frizz]

Smash lore is a joke anyway.

Why would all the Fire Emblem characters co-exist at the same time, anyway? Or the Legend of Zelda characters with their reincarnations? Or even Arus, Solo, Eleven, and Eight?

Then again, they're all trophies or action figuries or plushies or something in some kid's room, so lore is really out the window at this point.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smash lore is a joke anyway.

Why would all the Fire Emblem characters co-exist at the same time, anyway? Or the Legend of Zelda characters with their reincarnations? Or even Arus, Solo, Eleven, and Eight?

Then again, they're all trophies or action figuries or plushies or something in some kid's room, so lore is really out the window at this point.

Sakurai even admits that there's anachronisms like this anyway when showing off Rock's appearance on KoF Stadium.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Smash lore is a joke anyway.

Why would all the Fire Emblem characters co-exist at the same time, anyway? Or the Legend of Zelda characters with their reincarnations? Or even Arus, Solo, Eleven, and Eight?

Then again, they're all trophies or action figuries or plushies or something in some kid's room, so lore is really out the window at this point.

To be honest about Zelda, it DOES make sense, apart from Ganondorf
The Links and Zeldas are different people, that even canonically met each other a few times (an exemple, TP Link met OOT Link in his game), so... It does make sense on this Canon, but yes for the rest, Spirits canonically deconfirming is a joke

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Smash lore is a joke anyway.

Why would all the Fire Emblem characters co-exist at the same time, anyway? Or the Legend of Zelda characters with their reincarnations? Or even Arus, Solo, Eleven, and Eight?

Then again, they're all trophies or action figuries or plushies or something in some kid's room, so lore is really out the window at this point.

Don't forget Ness probably being dead for thousands of years by the time Lucas is alive, or at the very least a young adult. (Depending if you go by Earthbound 64 beta or Mother 3 GBA lore, even then its pretty unclear in the final game).

To be honest about Zelda, it DOES make sense, apart from Ganondorf
The Links and Zeldas are different people, that even canonically met each other a few times (an exemple, TP Link met OOT Link in his game), so... It does make sense on this Canon, but yes for the rest, Spirits canonically deconfirming is a joke

Yeah but by the time TP Link met OOT Link, OOT Link was a dead reanimated corpse that had been diseased for around a century, they didn't actually meet each other in their prime (and they never really met each other in Smash anyway, OOT Link was only in 64 and Melee and returned in his young form in Ultimate, while TP Link was only in Brawl and Sm4sh). We didn't actually have different iterations of Link meeting each other in Smash itself until Toon Link in Brawl, but even then in Melee we had the same Link at two different ages coexisting, the same way Mario and Baby Mario appear together in all the Mario spinoffs. Of course with Ultimate having Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf existing from completely different timelines or timeperiods, the lore's gone out the window entirely. They could bring in Hyrule Warriors Impa at this point and it wouldn't be out of place at all.

 

[fogbadge]

Smash lore is a joke anyway.

Why would all the Fire Emblem characters co-exist at the same time, anyway? Or the Legend of Zelda characters with their reincarnations? Or even Arus, Solo, Eleven, and Eight?

Then again, they're all trophies or action figuries or plushies or something in some kid's room, so lore is really out the window at this point.

nintendo really dont seem all that bothered about cannon, certainly not as much as fans

 

[3DSNinja]

except for metroid...
for some reason that series has the most consistent lore

 

[NintenRob]

except for metroid...
for some reason that series has the most consistent lore

I know it's easy to forget, but Other M exist

Also I love Kirby lore

 

[3DSNinja]

Other M isn't canon.

 

[fogbadge]

Other M isn't canon.

keep telling yourself that

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't forget Ness probably being dead for thousands of years by the time Lucas is alive, or at the very least a young adult. (Depending if you go by Earthbound 64 beta or Mother 3 GBA lore, even then its pretty unclear in the final game).


Yeah but by the time TP Link met OOT Link, OOT Link was a dead reanimated corpse that had been diseased for around a century, they didn't actually meet each other in their prime (and they never really met each other in Smash anyway, OOT Link was only in 64 and Melee and returned in his young form in Ultimate, while TP Link was only in Brawl and Sm4sh). We didn't actually have different iterations of Link meeting each other in Smash itself until Toon Link in Brawl, but even then in Melee we had the same Link at two different ages coexisting, the same way Mario and Baby Mario appear together in all the Mario spinoffs. Of course with Ultimate having Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf existing from completely different timelines or timeperiods, the lore's gone out the window entirely. They could bring in Hyrule Warriors Impa at this point and it wouldn't be out of place at all.

Yes and they should bring Hyrule Warriors Impa. As soon as possible even.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Yes and they should bring Hyrule Warriors Impa. As soon as possible even.

Dixie Kong and Impa are my two most wanted 1st Parties.

 

[3DSNinja]

No, Other M defies actual canon and adds nothinf... He'll we even got an explanation for Neo-Ridley in Samus Returns. Other M isn't canon.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

I'm just gonna share this again. I feel it covers me pretty well as far as supposed deconfirmations go

I'm sorry, but I don't buy most of the points Jon makes. I could go on forever about it, but it boils down to this:

Mii Outfits: All of the Mii Costumes who were promoted were added in different games.
Spirits: Sorry, but there was no real argument here besides "oh it could happen" and "the DLC wouldn't have had spirits". Two problems with that argument: 1: , who would have absolutely had a spirit . 2: Conversely, we know how Wayforward/Bozon and Ubisoft are willing to give the rights to Nintendo. Since they were already in contact with Nintendo, Sakurai did his stuff for base game, because he didn't have any plans for later, unless we wind up getting Patricia Wagon or Ezio. Regardless, it's been over for Shantae and Rayman.
Assist Trophies: Sakurai has stated not once, but twice, that Waluigi wouldn't be getting in because he's an assist trophy. That alone should show that ATs deconfirm.
All of the Above: All three of those roles were meant to be ways to add characters into Smash without making them fighters. Adding one as a fighter would undermine Sakurai's whole point of adding them without making them fighters. Sakurai said that he wants to include new game worlds in Smash with the DLC. Since those roles make it so that the game worlds are already represented, we can infer that none of those games would be getting another fighter. Furthermore, Reggie says that the DLC fighters will be "new to the series", rather than "newcomers" or "new challengers", implying that there would be No Spirits, ATs or Mii Outfits.
Nintendo: Sakurai's and Reggie's words basically eliminate everyone except the Howard Twins and Euden. However, Furukawa (president of Nintendo of Japan) mentioned that the direction Smash DLC was about catering to gamers as a whole rather than Smash fans, meaning that they're trying to get more and more non-Nintendo fans to buy switches. Nintendo characters obviously can't be worked into the plan like that. Since Furukawa stated that the pattern is 100% intentional and that they intend to continue to follow that plan even after the Fighter Pass ends, we can sadly conclude that there will be no Nintendo characters. Period.

I mean, sure, there are some fan rules that have been/may be broken, like "no secondary 3rd party reps" (which wouldn't be possible now, because it's not a new game world), but these 4 rules just seem to be set in stone.

Before anyone says anything, Chrom. Was. Last. Minute. Prior to the 3.0 Update, he had the general FE victory theme instead of the Awakening one. If they didnt have time to change that, they would not have had time to change a Robin's Final Smash before launch.

 

[fogbadge]

No, Other M defies actual canon and adds nothinf... He'll we even got an explanation for Neo-Ridley in Samus Returns. Other M isn't canon.

thats not what nintendo says and its up to them

 

[3DSNinja]

Have we gotten an official Metroid timeline since Samus Returns? No. For next w, Other M is unclear as to whether or not it is canon, and it contradicts the Prime games, which are established canon because of Samus Returns. therefore, it's non-canon, at least in my eyes.

 

[fogbadge]

Have we gotten an official Metroid timeline since Samus Returns? No. For next w, Other M is unclear as to whether or not it is canon, and it contradicts the Prime games, which are established canon because of Samus Returns. therefore, it's non-canon, at least in my eyes.

thats what we call a head canon

 

[Opossum]

.

Before anyone says anything, Chrom. Was. Last. Minute. Prior to the 3.0 Update, he had the general FE victory theme instead of the Awakening one. If they didnt have time to change that, they would not have had time to change a Robin's Final Smash before launch.

This is far from definitive proof. The fact that, besides Ken, he's the echo fighter with the most amount of changes made to him (tons of attacks needed to be completely reanimated, no fire, completely different Up Special and Final Smash, balanced blade...) actually points to him being planned for quite a while. Those aren't "last minute" changes.

It's also important to note that the victory theme wouldn't point to him being a late addition, but a late completion. Those are two very different things. In Brawl, Sonic was added to the project later than Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf, but got completed before they did. That and that's likely more of a QA thing than anything.

 

[Zinith]

Have we gotten an official Metroid timeline since Samus Returns? No. For next w, Other M is unclear as to whether or not it is canon, and it contradicts the Prime games, which are established canon because of Samus Returns. therefore, it's non-canon, at least in my eyes.

I'd like to hear what it is about Other M that contradicts canon because I played that game many times and I haven't found any. In fact, it reinforces the events of a game LATER in the timeline

 

[Perkilator]

I'd like to hear what it is about Other M that contradicts canon because I played that game many times and I haven't found any. In fact, it reinforces the events of a game LATER in the timeline

Guys, this is about general support for Nintendo characters. Can we NOT argue about Metroid canon and how Other M contradicts it?

 

[Guynamednelson]

tons of attacks needed to be completely reanimated

He didn't get as many new animations as Dark Samus, but still, the fact that he's not just Roy's Lucina wasn't the easiest thing in the world.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie Kong and Impa are my two most wanted 1st Parties.

They are my most wanted, along with Isaac.

 

[Kold Pizza]

My most wanted Nintendo characters are Dixie Kong and another Zelda character (Skull Kid is my most wanted from the series, but Midna or Impa would be cool too).

I will reiterate what I stated in post #998 at page 25, even though we don’t want Nintendo characters forgotten, we must show nobility in our movement. I respect others’ opinions, whether you support first party or third party.

We all cling to our own opinions and biases (it’s human nature), but this thread was never meant to undermine non-Nintendo characters. It’s showing support for additional Nintendo characters for DLC because we don’t want them to be left by the wayside.

I get why they add third party characters from time to time, to make fans outside the Nintendo fanbase to buy a Switch console. I’m all for the concept, but like I said, I don’t want Nintendo characters to be forgotten. Give first party and third party characters equal treatment.

For the record, I am not just a fan of Nintendo games, but all video games in general. I have played games from Nintendo, to Sega, to PlayStation, to XBox. I’ve played many different kinds of series (Halo, Spyro, Metal Gear Solid, etc). I love video games, it’s my life. Just because I think some certain Nintendo characters would fit the best in Ultimate doesn’t mean I have anything against non-Nintendo characters. I stated in post #1132 at page 29 that many third party characters are debatable (you can make a good case for them). Specifically speaking, that includes the characters in this fighter’s pass (Banjo & Kazooie in particular has been one of my most wanted third party characters).

I stand by what I said in terms of the pandora box being opened. I will paraphrase on it. Literally anyone can get in as long as they are considered a video game character. A little while back Vergeben even said a Granblue Fantasy character is possible. Not that I find Vergeben a credible leaker, but I digress. I am not that familiar with the series and don’t want to judge it, but IMO I don’t think a gacha game character fits Smash. Imagine a gacha game character taking up a roster spot and getting in before another DK rep or another Zelda rep, that would be a travesty, but hey if that makes me a biased fan, so be it. The fact that literally any character like one from a gacha game is considered a possibility is alarming, I don’t think the developers would ever put a character of that type in, but if they did, there will be apologists out there that will always defend their decisions no matter what.

There comes a time when you have to criticize Nintendo for questionable decisions they may make down the line. Like how they made Mario Kart Tour and its microtransactions. I don’t want them to turn into one of these companies where it nickels-and-dimes its fans.

Supporters of Nintendo characters have this thread to lean on for comfort. Good luck defending Nintendo characters like Dixie in a forum like Gamefaqs where it’s the Wild West with barrages of ad hominem attacks. I can’t tell you how many ignorant “Wig Diddy” users I have seen there.