The First Party general support thread

[chocolatejr9]

I guess so. But I'm just asking a question.

Don't worry, I can MAKE this on-topic: do you guys think we'll get another collab between a Nintendo series and an indie game? What would you want to see?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Don't worry, I can MAKE this on-topic: do you guys think we'll get another collab between a Nintendo series and an indie game? What would you want to see?

Kirby and Hollow Knight.
There may be a scaling problem (kirby is theorically 8 inch height, Hollow Knight characters are insects so probably they are even smaller), but it would be cool to see a story revolving around Taranza set in the Hollow Knight universe (maybe he can finally meet Sectonia's spirit in the world of dreams).

 

[fogbadge]

Kirby and Hollow Knight.
There may be a scaling problem (kirby is theorically 8 inch height, Hollow Knight characters are insects so probably they are even smaller), but it would be cool to see a story revolving around Taranza set in the Hollow Knight universe (maybe he can finally meet Sectonia's spirit in the world of dreams).

i like the sound of that

 

[Freduardo]

Don't worry, I can MAKE this on-topic: do you guys think we'll get another collab between a Nintendo series and an indie game? What would you want to see?

Neat.

Wario would work really well as a character in a Bit.Trip Runner game.

Shovel Knight X Dragalia Lost - I Have Mega Man in Dragalia Lost now, I'd like Shovel Knight as well.

Tiny Metal X Advance Wars - Too Easy.

Darksiders X Star Fox Adventures - Why not? Both Zelda Likes.

Crypt of the Necrodancer: Cadence in the Star Tropics - Cadence mixes well with Star Tropics.

F-Zero X Fast Racing Neo - Because it's another F-Zero.

Citizens of the Earthbound - Yeah, I'm lazy.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

The only indie x Nintendo crossover I'm interested in (and its not even really a crossover) but a Playtonic Games developed DK game. Get the original team (of sorts) back on DK so we don't have to keep going through these droughts AND we can get all the characters back (like K.Rool and the kremlings, animal buddies besides Rambi, and the rest of the Kongs that rarely get used).

But if I had to choose a real crossover then its Yooka-Laylee x DKC. Since Impossible Lair is basically DKC just with way less of the charm.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The only indie x Nintendo crossover I'm interested in (and its not even really a crossover) but a Playtonic Games developed DK game. Get the original team (of sorts) back on DK so we don't have to keep going through these droughts AND we can get all the characters back (like K.Rool and the kremlings, animal buddies besides Rambi, and the rest of the Kongs that rarely get used).

But if I had to choose a real crossover then its Yooka-Laylee x DKC. Since Impossible Lair is basically DKC just with way less of the charm.

Playtonic making a DKC game seems like a pipedream at this point. I'll love if it happens, but I can't really see it.

It's of course not impossible, but it's just as probable as Rare making DKC games for handhelds in the past. Technically it was possible, and Rare even wanted it to happen but Nintendo wanted a port of Diddy Kong Racing for DS instead.

 

[Mamboo07]

Don't worry, I can MAKE this on-topic: do you guys think we'll get another collab between a Nintendo series and an indie game? What would you want to see?

Yoshi and Octodad. Basically I would have the duo get up into sorts of funny and downright hilarious misadventures through the city from Octodad: Dadliest Catch.
Or imagine that as a TV show. "Yoshi & Octodad: Scrambled Tentacles!"

 

[Zinith]

Don't worry, I can MAKE this on-topic: do you guys think we'll get another collab between a Nintendo series and an indie game? What would you want to see?

Yoshi and Overcooked.

Needless to say, the scale will slightly increase by.... ahem, galactic proportions

 

[Lady Kuki]

Not sure if I’m allowed to post this here. Let me know if I’m not but I think we’re starting to get a rough idea on who fighter #5, and potentially the other fighters are:

Spoiler

Of course like most leaks, this could be false, but it is rather strange that the source is keeping quiet about KOS-MOS. Who knows why, but it could be because she is the next fighter. Source apparently also said that previous disconfirmations are actually quite possible, just not for the fifth fighter and as expected: They’re all third party. You could also say that we could be getting even more after those guys but who knows? 10+ DLC chars are kinda pushing it at this point. I don’t think this is looking great for anyone looking for a first party character, but I digress: What are your thoughts?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not sure if I’m allowed to post this here. Let me know if I’m not but I think we’re starting to get a rough idea on who fighter #5, and potentially the other fighters are:

Spoiler

View attachment 252127

Of course like most leaks, this could be false, but it is rather strange that the source is keeping quiet about KOS-MOS. Who knows why, but it could be because she is the next fighter. Source apparently also said that previous disconfirmations are actually quite possible, just not for the fifth fighter and as expected: They’re all third party. You could also say that we could be getting even more after those guys but who knows? 10+ DLC chars are kinda pushing it at this point. I don’t think this is looking great for anyone looking for a first party character, but I digress: What are your thoughts?

I'm sticking to the belief that the real reason for the lack of first parties is that these FP characters were being planned for a long time before Sakurai said they were finalized in November 2018. When Rex is too new, so is the backdraft against him and others not being playable.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

Not sure if I’m allowed to post this here. Let me know if I’m not but I think we’re starting to get a rough idea on who fighter #5, and potentially the other fighters are:

Spoiler

View attachment 252127

Of course like most leaks, this could be false, but it is rather strange that the source is keeping quiet about KOS-MOS. Who knows why, but it could be because she is the next fighter. Source apparently also said that previous disconfirmations are actually quite possible, just not for the fifth fighter and as expected: They’re all third party. You could also say that we could be getting even more after those guys but who knows? 10+ DLC chars are kinda pushing it at this point. I don’t think this is looking great for anyone looking for a first party character, but I digress: What are your thoughts?

Spoiler: Fighter 5 Spoilers

If it is real, I'll be very salty, since we could've had better reps from both Namco (Heihachi, Lloyd), and more on-topic, Xeno, being Rex (when he really could've been saved for DLC). That said, I wasn't sure that it was KOS-MOS, but after hearing what PapaGenos had to say about it, she's my prediction for tomorrow.

Spoiler: Less spoilery pessimism that makes me from Scotland for some reason

To be fair, if it's real or not, it's probably going to be all third party, since we know that Sakurai is not one to break patterns (not fanrules) often. There's evidence from both Sakurai and Nintendo that this is the direction they want to take the game, and the more they bring it up, the less confident I am in even being able to get one non-represented Nintendo franchise like Astral Chain or Dragalia Lost.

 

[Kold Pizza]

I remember back in Brawl third party characters were welcome additions and seemed really cool. In hindsight though, it may have opened a Pandora’s box.

Brawl had 2 third party characters.

Smash 4 for both the Wii U and 3DS had 7 third party characters (3 of them were DLC).

Ultimate currently has 14 third party characters, including the ones who are echo fighters, and assuming FP5 will probably be another third party character, that will bring the total number up to 15 (with 5 of them being DLC).

It’s alarming for sure because we grew up believing this game is a celebration of Nintendo All-Stars. I don’t want to sound bitter about it though; I find that some of the third party additions are a great fit for Smash such as Sonic, Mega Man, PAC-Man, the Belmonts, and Banjo & Kazooie. Some of the others are debatable, I find Ryu and Ken cool additions and they have had their games on the Super Nintendo.

That said though, it’s still alarming regardless since right now third party characters are becoming nearly 20% of the roster. First party characters to me are what made this game special in the first place, but it looks like first party DLC additions are getting left by the wayside because Nintendo is spending a lot of their energy impressing outside companies. Imagine if Nintendo spent a lot of energy impressing their fans instead, such as the ones who grew up with their characters. If they did, we could get more first party representation along with a better online service and better support for esports events.

There have been debates going on in other forums such as Gamefaqs. Some of them think first party characters are not “hype” enough like third party characters are. I wonder what their positions are now though. I find first party characters really “hype” especially now more than ever because no one is expecting first party characters in the next DLC wave at this point.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

I dont even know who the **** Kos-Mos is. But she has been brought up so many times that I think she is actually going to be announced tomorrow. I know Sakurai said "relevancy/being well known doesn't matter as long as they are fun to play" but come on does Kos-Mos really fit in with this massive game full of All-Stars. She is more of a "who?" then Terry was for most people. Also would Kos-Mos really go over well with the TGA audience?

Banjo and Hero (in Japan) have been the only highly requested characters part of the pass. Yes I know "if it was ONLY highly requested characters the roster would be predictable and boring" but I mean I know a lot of people who bought the fighters pass and are now feeling burnt. Granted it was their fault for giving Nintendo $25 for a blank piece of paper (which is why Im glad I bought Banjo and no one else) but I mean its not even just the fact we haven't gotten any 1st party characters but the 3rd party picks at least IMO have been lackluster and too niche (besides Banjo and Hero).

 

[fogbadge]

I dont even know who the **** Kos-Mos is. But she has been brought up so many times that I think she is actually going to be announced tomorrow. I know Sakurai said "relevancy/being well known doesn't matter as long as they are fun to play" but come on does Kos-Mos really fit in with this massive game full of All-Stars. She is more of a "who?" then Terry was for most people. Also would Kos-Mos really go over well with the TGA audience?

i dont think kos-mos is more obscure than terry, i think shes the better known, youd have to check in with a xenogears fan

 

[Lady Kuki]

I remember back in Brawl third party characters were welcome additions and seemed really cool. In hindsight though, it may have opened a Pandora’s box.


That said though, it’s still alarming regardless since right now third party characters are becoming nearly 20% of the roster. First party characters to me are what made this game special in the first place, but it looks like first party DLC additions are getting left by the wayside because Nintendo is spending a lot of their energy impressing outside companies. Imagine if Nintendo spent a lot of energy impressing their fans instead, such as the ones who grew up with their characters. If they did, we could get more first party representation along with a better online service and better support for esports events.

About that... remember the Wii U? Yeah, I doubt Nintendo wants to go through that period again. I think Smash is one of the things Nintendo does that makes it unique from other companies. IT IS the only company to date that can make millions with the whole, zany crossover party fighter genre after all. Right now, Ninty's using this advantage to did what they should've done before: Have more third party support for their console. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these third parties are in just because Nintendo and a third party company had a deal that their character would be featured in Smash if said company put their game on the Switch. Of course, there are only but so many companies that get their stuff in Smash due to this negotiation, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case for many of the companies whose characters, content etc. are currently featured in Ultimate.

Smash 4 with the additions of Ryu, Bayo, Megaman, Pac-Man and Cloud, especially Cloud attracted people who were interested in the idea of Smash being a huge fighting game crossover. I remember when Corrin and Bayo were announced; many fans at the time complained about how so many of the characters (mostly Nintendo mind you), were added for "corporate" reasons. Pokemon and Fire Emblem are especially notorious for having characters like these. People didn't like how Sakurai/Nintendo only added characters from recent games and not old-time fan favorites. Nintendo IS indeed listening to the fans, just not the hardcore ones anymore. They're listening to people who want a reason to buy the Switch. They're listening to the angry ballot voters who were annoyed by the hiccups in the Smash 4 roster. That's why Ultimate has the types of newcomers they have, and you know what? Fine. But man, will it be mighty awkward if we come out of the DLC woods without a single Switch game rep, which mind you is looking quite probable as the days go by. Ironic how they want to make the Switch as appealing as possible... by not having a character from a Switch exclusive title playable.

 

[NintenRob]

We can't even get first party stuff at the game awards, we could barely get Switch stuff.

Still, I hope people are happy about No More Heroes and Bravely default. And I guess Marvel

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I have high hopes that we will get a direct pretty soon and the 2020 lineup will get nicely beefed up

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

We can't even get first party stuff at the game awards, we could barely get Switch stuff.

Still, I hope people are happy about No More Heroes and Bravely default. And I guess Marvel

Yeah I've been noticing a larger lack of first parties in non-first party specific directs as well. This just doesn't look like a good time for Nintendo fans in general. I'm hoping we're a bit more fortunate with Nintendo in general at the February direct, but I'm keeping my expectations low as usual.

 

[osby]

I remember back in Brawl third party characters were welcome additions and seemed really cool. In hindsight though, it may have opened a Pandora’s box.

Brawl had 2 third party characters.

Smash 4 for both the Wii U and 3DS had 7 third party characters (3 of them were DLC).

Ultimate currently has 14 third party characters, including the ones who are echo fighters, and assuming FP5 will probably be another third party character, that will bring the total number up to 15 (with 5 of them being DLC).

It’s alarming for sure because we grew up believing this game is a celebration of Nintendo All-Stars. I don’t want to sound bitter about it though; I find that some of the third party additions are a great fit for Smash such as Sonic, Mega Man, PAC-Man, the Belmonts, and Banjo & Kazooie. Some of the others are debatable, I find Ryu and Ken cool additions and they have had their games on the Super Nintendo.

That said though, it’s still alarming regardless since right now third party characters are becoming nearly 20% of the roster. First party characters to me are what made this game special in the first place, but it looks like first party DLC additions are getting left by the wayside because Nintendo is spending a lot of their energy impressing outside companies. Imagine if Nintendo spent a lot of energy impressing their fans instead, such as the ones who grew up with their characters. If they did, we could get more first party representation along with a better online service and better support for esports events.

There have been debates going on in other forums such as Gamefaqs. Some of them think first party characters are not “hype” enough like third party characters are. I wonder what their positions are now though. I find first party characters really “hype” especially now more than ever because no one is expecting first party characters in the next DLC wave at this point.

You know, just because some Nintendo fans only ever play Nintendo games doesn't mean all Smash fans are like that. Just look at how many fans were "impressed" by Cloud, Snake or Joker.

I have first-party characters I'd love to see in Smash but this whole "third parties I don't like are just for companies, real fans only like my characters" thing of this thread is seriously bothering me.

If first-party supporters try and promote their characters without putting down or gatekeeping others, maybe they'd find more support in the community.

 

[fogbadge]

We can't even get first party stuff at the game awards, we could barely get Switch stuff.

Still, I hope people are happy about No More Heroes and Bravely default. And I guess Marvel

well im happy about bravely, but hey at least 3 nintendo games won at the awards, one category was all nintendo too

If first-party supporters try and promote their characters without putting down or gatekeeping others, maybe they'd find more support in the community.

there are fans of every character guilty of that

 

[Guynamednelson]

putting down or gatekeeping others

What goes around comes around. That's not to say there shouldn't be less gatekeeping, but don't think you're not guilty of that.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

there are fans of every character guilty of that

What goes around comes around. That's not to say there shouldn't be less gatekeeping, but don't think you're not guilty of that.

... your point?

Just because some Smash fans are showcasing some **** behavior doesn't mean you're free to act the same way. I for one am tired of Smash fans saying characters like Hero and Terry are "irrelevant" and "bottom of the barrel" and that "no one asked for them", but I'm not gonna fire back and claim that their most wanted characters are guilty of the same thing as well.

 

[Guynamednelson]

... your point?

For Osby to practice what he preaches. Don't gatekeep a character for being some irrelevant Smash Bubble cereal mascot or whatever.

 

[NintenRob]

I've seen way more people dismiss first parties than third parties lately. There's a reason I made this thread, because I kept getting attacked for my wants.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I've seen way more people dismiss first parties than third parties lately. There's a reason I made this thread, because I kept getting attacked for my wants.

Having a thread for discussing first-party characters is perfectly fine. What isn't perfectly fine is when people use it as an excuse to bash third-parties.

If you truly want to argue why first-party characters like Bandana Waddle Dee should be in Smash, you should do so by explaining why Bandana Waddle Dee would be a good addition to Smash (design, moveset, music and spirits, etc). Taking unnecessary jabs at third-parties like Terry is only gonna hurt your case and make people turn against it. As someone who wants Phoenix Wright in Smash, if you want to convince me to support first-party characters as well (which I already do), insulting Phoenix Wright is the worst thing you can do.

 

[fogbadge]

... your point?

Just because some Smash fans are showcasing some **** behavior doesn't mean you're free to act the same way. I for one am tired of Smash fans saying characters like Hero and Terry are "irrelevant" and "bottom of the barrel" and that "no one asked for them", but I'm not gonna fire back and claim that their most wanted characters are guilty of the same thing as well.

i never said it was ok for people to do such a thing i was pointing that the problem was more wide spread than they were implying

this thread rarely bashes characters

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Having a thread for discussing first-party characters is perfectly fine. What isn't perfectly fine is when people use it as an excuse to bash third-parties.

If you truly want to argue why first-party characters like Bandana Waddle Dee should be in Smash, you should do so by explaining why Bandana Waddle Dee would be a good addition to Smash (design, moveset, music and spirits, etc). Taking unnecessary jabs at third-parties like Terry is only gonna hurt your case and make people turn against it. As someone who wants Phoenix Wright in Smash, if you want to convince me to support first-party characters as well (which I already do), insulting Phoenix Wright is the worst thing you can do.

Honestly, why do we have to justify first-parties? Guests are speculated without too much backlash, but when someone suggests in-house characters, more often than not the gates close. This was originally meant to be a Nintendo crossover at its core and I don't think adding characters in that realm should be out of the question by its very nature.

And sure, you could argue that we should have standards for who gets in and what they add, but that argument falls flat when only applying it to first-parties. This mentality should also apply to guests and for some reason it... doesn't. Joker got in with no connection to Smash other than menu inspiration, Hero and Terry got way more attention to detail than some in-game franchises, and because of that anyone and everyone outside of Nintendo's sphere seems to have an ounce of a chance. I'm not necessarily attacking these characters, but there's quite the double standard here.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Having a thread for discussing first-party characters is perfectly fine. What isn't perfectly fine is when people use it as an excuse to bash third-parties.

If you truly want to argue why first-party characters like Bandana Waddle Dee should be in Smash, you should do so by explaining why Bandana Waddle Dee would be a good addition to Smash (design, moveset, music and spirits, etc). Taking unnecessary jabs at third-parties like Terry is only gonna hurt your case and make people turn against it. As someone who wants Phoenix Wright in Smash, if you want to convince me to support first-party characters as well (which I already do), insulting Phoenix Wright is the worst thing you can do.

Well ... If this is the sort of thing you wanna see then, I think I can deliver some of it !

Here ! I made this a little while ago, to go with a moveset I made, I think I shared other movesets and Challenger Packs I made here though, so if you wanna look for this kind of stuff, you can read it up in the Thread !
The Moveset I made to go with it is right here BTW !
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12NSG2aHH-QDi_iXXFRxeK1KQCkV1Z3aCM6C4zqOleyI/edit?usp=sharing

I also made a particular Stage Design, and have a basic idea of how each of the spirits would work in battle if you're interested

(Also, please don't nitpick the few people that are taking jabs at 3rd party, this is a topic for 1st party positivity, and the main subject is about that, lots of people are sharing exactly what you were talking about, and I'm one of them, so don't take a look at the minority of message and enjoy the majority that support positively ?)

 

[lady_sky skipper]

You know, just because some Nintendo fans only ever play Nintendo games doesn't mean all Smash fans are like that. Just look at how many fans were "impressed" by Cloud, Snake or Joker.

I have first-party characters I'd love to see in Smash but this whole "third parties I don't like are just for companies, real fans only like my characters" thing of this thread is seriously bothering me.

If first-party supporters try and promote their characters without putting down or gatekeeping others, maybe they'd find more support in the community.

Yeah, I've always hated gatekeeping in the Smash community, we can have both 1st and 3rd party characters for Smash Bros Ultimate. Heck, I'm both a Terry Bogard and Bandana Dee supporter and loved it when Bandana Dee fans defended Terry when people used "Hat Ken" as a term to bash him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So since we've officially re-entered "Nintendo drought season" ("Thanks, Game Awards" I say sarcasticly), I wanted to ask something. I keep hearing that Nintendo usually does a Direct two weeks after an Indie Showcase. Is there a precedent for this, or are people just trying to find a reason to speculate on a December Direct?

 

[Opossum]

So since we've officially re-entered "Nintendo drought season" ("Thanks, Game Awards" I say sarcasticly), I wanted to ask something. I keep hearing that Nintendo usually does a Direct two weeks after an Indie Showcase. Is there a precedent for this, or are people just trying to find a reason to speculate on a December Direct?

It's incredibly inconsistent.

 

[Calamitas]

So since we've officially re-entered "Nintendo drought season" ("Thanks, Game Awards" I say sarcasticly), I wanted to ask something. I keep hearing that Nintendo usually does a Direct two weeks after an Indie Showcase. Is there a precedent for this, or are people just trying to find a reason to speculate on a December Direct?

See for yourself. It's rather inconsistent, as Opossum said.

 

[chocolatejr9]

See for yourself. It's rather inconsistent, as Opossum said.

Welp, there goes that lead. But hey, I didn't realise Feh Channel happened every two months, so it's not all bad.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit and it would "go against the lore" and that's why the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4 don't matter because SpIrIts aRe ImpORtanT to ThE LoRE when there are literally Kirby clone battles in World of Light despite the fact that he never got captured, SMH.

No seriously, how on earth is that supposed to work? That's a plot hole bigger than the one in Kirby's stomach.

 

[Ura]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit and it would "go against the lore" and that's why the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4 don't matter because SpIrIts aRe ImpORtanT to ThE LoRE when there are literally Kirby clone battles in World of Light despite the fact that he never got captured, SMH.

No seriously, how on earth is that supposed to work? That's a plot hole bigger than the one in Kirby's stomach.

Hardcore anti-promotion people will come up with the most jank explanation as to why Spirits/AT's will never get promoted. It's almost as if the have to be right.

 

[Hollywoodrok12]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit and it would "go against the lore" and that's why the Mewtwo and Lucas trophies in Smash 4 don't matter because SpIrIts aRe ImpORtanT to ThE LoRE when there are literally Kirby clone battles in World of Light despite the fact that he never got captured, SMH.

No seriously, how on earth is that supposed to work? That's a plot hole bigger than the one in Kirby's stomach.

The things are 1: There were no trophies for any DLC newcomers beforehand, so trophies probably did deconfirm, but Lucas and Mewtwo got a pass since they were veterans. 2: There actually is an explanation for Kirby's puppet fighters straight from Sakurai's (translated) mouth.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sorry, but both of those arguments still hold weight. Not good for any 1st parties.

Hardcore anti-promotion people will come up with the most jank explanation as to why Spirits/AT's will never get promoted. It's almost as if the have to be right.

And pessimists. Don't forget pessimists. (I'm mostly referring to myself)

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sorry, but both of those arguments still hold weight. Not good for any 1st parties.

No, they really don't. If Kirby could be retroactively "analyzed" afterwards despite never being captured, then Spirits can retroactively break out of Spirit form and become fighters as well. It really shows that they literally can pull whatever they want out of their a** to justify literally anything.

 

[fogbadge]

It really shows that they literally can pull whatever they want out of their a** to justify literally anything.

much like character detractors

 

[Ura]

No, they really don't. If Kirby could be retroactively "analyzed" afterwards despite never being captured, then Spirits can retroactively break out of Spirit form and become fighters as well. It really shows that they literally can pull whatever they want out of their a** to justify literally anything.

Nah, there's a list of in-universe rules Sakurai has to adhere to or else the roster will forever be tainted.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I find it funny that people say it "wouldn't make sense" for a character to fight their own spirit

Daily reminder that Joker came with a spirit featuring him and the rest of the Phantom Thieves, most of whom got their own separate spirits.

And in certain SNK spirit battles, the real Kyo/Daimon/Kim/Chang/Choi can cheer on stand-ins for themselves getting beaten up.