The First Party general support thread

[Arthur97]

Impa would pretty much have to be based on Skyward Sword since that was the game she actually did the most in. Admittedly, that would not be the worst thing ever.

As far as one offs go, I'd say Midna actually. Yeah, Skull Kid has a following, but Midna should get props for being perhaps the only Zelda partner to actually be liked by majority of fans. That, and she should have a decently varied ability set if you can merge her own abilities with some form of wolf whether that be Link or they go a Hyrule Warriors route and have her conjure up her own. Add this to taking some liberties and making new moves, and you have yourself a unique and well liked newcomer.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I have to ask, if you were to fix Zelda's representation, would you focus on recurring secondaries like Tingle and Impa, or on major one-shots like Skull Kid and the Champions?

See, unlike everyone else, I'd pick Tingle, Impa and Vaati anyday over a one shot. I also admittedly find Tingle fantastic as he's the perfect lethal joke character and fairies are a pretty big thing in Zelda.
Not to mention he's one of the most well known characters in Zelda despite the over vocal hatebase. But hey, if you hate him? You can now pummel him. You're welcome haters.

Vaati is easily my favourite villain between his Four Sword and Minish Cap appearances and I desperately wanted him to return even if it's just a Four Sword Adventure port for Switch.
Impa stole the show for me in Hyrule Warriors to the point I wish KT had got more creative freedom over their versions of characters.

Skull Kid on the other hand just doesn't do it for me honestly. His moveset in HW was mostly letting fairies whip around him to attack and firing generic dark balls of energy, so I don't really get the moveset interest. Aside from dropping the moon on people I mean for his Final Smash, but he couldn't even get that as his assist trophy attack? I can respect his recognisability however and his game.

 

[Freduardo]

I have to ask, if you were to fix Zelda's representation, would you focus on recurring secondaries like Tingle and Impa, or on major one-shots like Skull Kid and the Champions?

Me, I'd be going Vaati. But Four Swords Adventures is probably the most fun I've ever had playing Zelda and Minish Cap is probably my second or third favorite top down one player zelda.

Then probably Impa.

Then probably Skull Kid.

Then probably a minion. I need more minions than Pirahna Plant.

 

[Oddball]

I have to ask, if you were to fix Zelda's representation, would you focus on recurring secondaries like Tingle and Impa, or on major one-shots like Skull Kid and the Champions?

In order of preference ...

Classic big blue pig Monster Ganon.
Impa
Midna
Tingle

With Impa she is absolutely guaranteed to be nothing but a Sheik clone, and with all the similar movesets the Zelda characters already have it would be the lamest way to add a new Zelda character after going 18 years without a proper newcomer. I know people clamor for Hyrule Warriors Impa a lot but Hyrule Warriors is not a Zelda game and Nintendo doesn't even own the IP. You'd be asking for a Hyrule Warriors character, not a Zelda character.

Impa could be a Sheik clone. I have actually made the arguement before that Sheik should be taken out of the game and replaced by Impa. However there's nothing that says Impa HAS to be a Sheik clone.

Also, Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda game. It might not be a main series Zelda game, but it's a Zelda game. The Japanese release has Zelda right in the title. It's called Zelda Warriors over there. Everything from that game from the characters to the items are taken from Zelda games. Nintendo didn't develop the IP, but I don't see how anyone can claim they don't own the characters in it.

 

[fogbadge]

I have to ask, if you were to fix Zelda's representation, would you focus on recurring secondaries like Tingle and Impa, or on major one-shots like Skull Kid and the Champions?

Well I’d pack the game with all the Zelda characters I could after packing in all the toads I could and chibi

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

The chances of Sakurai promoting a boss to playable is close to nil, but I did a side-to-side comparison of Star Allies Marx and Smash Marx.

 

[NintenRob]

Regarding the Zelda question, I'd take both.

Skull Kid is my most wanted so I naturally want him more than anyone.


But I also think Impa should be in the game, she'd make an easy echo over Sheik. Honestly I'm surprised she never was.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think Hilda would be another easy echo. I’m surprised she wasn’t in given Zelda’s lack of a purple color. Both her and Impa would be easy additions to the game.

 

[Perkilator]

The chances of Sakurai promoting a boss to playable is close to nil, but I did a side-to-side comparison of Star Allies Marx and Smash Marx.
View attachment 242577

In the same game, you mean?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Well, yeah.
I'm operating under Assist Trophy promotion assumption, in which if a character pops up as an NPC, either an Assist Trophy, boss, Spirit, etc., that their chances of becoming playable are pretty much dead and they'll have to wait for another chance in the next game.
I'd love to see Pig Ganon show up as playable, but given his presence as a Final Smash and boss, I'm not holding my breath until the next Smash rolls along.

 

[PhantomShab]

Also, Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda game. It might not be a main series Zelda game, but it's a Zelda game. The Japanese release has Zelda right in the title. It's called Zelda Warriors over there. Everything from that game from the characters to the items are taken from Zelda games. Nintendo didn't develop the IP, but I don't see how anyone can claim they don't own the characters in it.

Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda-themed Dynasty Warriors game. Asking for any of the OCs or versions of existing characters from that game is not asking for a Zelda character, it's asking for a Hyrule Warriors character.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda-themed Dynasty Warriors game. Asking for any of the OCs or versions of existing characters from that game is not asking for a Zelda character, it's asking for a Hyrule Warriors character.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a spin-off.

 

[Arthur97]

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a spin-off.

Neither Hyrule nor Fire Emblem OCs were referenced. It seems likely they need KT to do that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Neither Hyrule nor Fire Emblem OCs were referenced. It seems likely they need KT to do that.

But that doesn't suddenly mean that Hyrule Warriors isn't a Zelda game.

 

[Quillion]

What is it with this love for Marx anyway? He was only the villain for one part of one Kirby game, and his appearance in Star Allies is just one of many Dream Friends.

Forget Sakurai's apparent negligence of modern Kirby, Marx would only represent one game. That's hardly enough to represent a whole franchise.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What is it with this love for Marx anyway? He was only the villain for one part of one Kirby game, and his appearance in Star Allies is just one of many Dream Friends.

Forget Sakurai's apparent negligence of modern Kirby, Marx would only represent one game. That's hardly enough to represent a whole franchise.

But he's one heck of a villain though. Imo the most memorable of all of Kirby's baddies.

 

[NintenRob]

There are many Kirby characters I'd prefer over Marx.

Coming from the most over represented Kirby game doesn't help matters

My choices would be

Bandana Dee
Daroach
Dark Matter
Magolor
Susie
Maybe even Queen Sectonia (but I think I want her as a Boss)
And then Marx

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I think it's mostly Marx being the antagonist of one of Sakurai's favorite games that gives him some favoritism, Super Star also being a relatively popular game in the series, and Marx being memorable for the amount of screentime he has that gives him Skull Kid levels of notoriety.
I'm personally pushing Dark Matter though for a "true" Kirby villain rep.

 

[fogbadge]

i think id prefer all other kirby characters over marx

 

[PhantomShab]

I'm not sure you understand the concept of a spin-off.

So would you say that the Mario Kart games are the same thing as the actual platformers?

 

[Arthur97]

So would you say that the Mario Kart games are the same thing as the actual platformers?

No, but it's still part of the Mario franchise. The real issue here I think is legal issues, not it being a spin off as Smash doesn't seem to mind spin offs (Mario Kart music is after all bizarrely separated from the rest of the Mario franchise, spin offs included). While KT seems to be on very good terms with Nintendo, it was probably more hassle than it was worth to include misc. content. That said, for a fighter it might work, but they probably would prefer one of their own characters.

All that said, they could still take inspiration from HW Impa and use another design.

Or they could take the ninja thing in a different angle with her focusing on small blades.

 

[Sebas22]

Marx is an absolute cretin, professional backstabber and total maniac. It's impossible not to love the little jester.

And of course, we could discuss all day how there are many Kirby characters who could be better picks. But deep inside, everyone knows that Sakurai would rather add a Wheelie or even a non-ability enemy like Cappy over any important character from the modern games.

It's sad, but that's how it is

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Made this for one of my Most Wanteds ! Like Spirit Zelda, there isn't really a Gardy thread, so I post it here instead
Since the PMD representation is criminally not there, I made Gardevoir a PMD rep, she make sense even without PMD, but she have central roles in the series, so it works pretty well still !

 

[fogbadge]

Marx is an absolute cretin, professional backstabber and total maniac. It's impossible not to love the little jester.

i wouldnt say its impossible

 

[Oddball]

So would you say that the Mario Kart games are the same thing as the actual platformers?

I wouldn't say they were the same thing, but they're still Mario games.

Same thing for the Mario party games, Mario RPG, and Dr. Mario.

 

[Quillion]

Hyrule Warriors is a Zelda-themed Dynasty Warriors game. Asking for any of the OCs or versions of existing characters from that game is not asking for a Zelda character, it's asking for a Hyrule Warriors character.

Going back to this question, it seems that Nintendo was able to use Vaati without Capcom's permission despite them creating him in Four Swords. Four Swords Adventures was made by EAD back then without Capcom's involvement, and they never even credited them.

Before you bring up Geno's Superstar Saga situation, I'd theorize that Nintendo has tightened their ownership on every IP made under their supervision, so we won't get another instance of a company stealing away a character that belongs to one of Nintendo's universes.

 

[PhantomShab]

Going back to this question, it seems that Nintendo was able to use Vaati without Capcom's permission despite them creating him in Four Swords. Four Swords Adventures was made by EAD back then without Capcom's involvement, and they never even credited them.

Before you bring up Geno's Superstar Saga situation, I'd theorize that Nintendo has tightened their ownership on every IP made under their supervision, so we won't get another instance of a company stealing away a character that belongs to one of Nintendo's universes.

I know that Nintendo created the monster form of Vaati but it's his Minish form that people aren't sure about.

 

[Quillion]

I know that Nintendo created the monster form of Vaati but it's his Minish form that people aren't sure about.

Actually, Capcom made the original Four Swords on GBA, so we know that they made Vaati's monster form and have no need to be credited.

 

[PhantomShab]

Actually, Capcom made the original Four Swords on GBA, so we know that they made Vaati's monster form and have no need to be credited.

Then this just makes Nintendo's refusal to acknowledge anything else from the Capcom Zelda games even more confusing.

 

[Curious Villager]

Then this just makes Nintendo's refusal to acknowledge anything else from the Capcom Zelda games even more confusing.

Apparently Minish Cap sold the poorest out of all canon Zelda games, at least from what i've heard. I guess that's probably the closest thing as to why they don't tend to acknowledge that game much if its not Capcom. No clue about the Oracle games though.

 

[fogbadge]

Apparently Minish Cap sold the poorest out of all canon Zelda games, at least from what i've heard. I guess that's probably the closest thing as to why they don't tend to acknowledge that game much if its not Capcom. No clue about the Oracle games though.

really? people didnt like minish cap, what a shame

 

[Curious Villager]

really? people didnt like minish cap, what a shame

I'd imagine that this was back during the whole "Celda" hate phase people had at the time and the game was practically in the middle of it. Especially since Minish Cap beared a similar art style as the Wind Waker (at least as far as the official art went)
I think the game was also released around the end of the GBA's lifespan and the DS was approaching so that might have also played a part in it I suppose.

Nowadays the game has grown into more of a cult classic these days so seeing it ignored so often by Nintendo is quite unfortunate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My realistic wants, barring ATs, Pokeballs, and DLC Mii costumes (so RIP Rex, he’ll get his chance another game) but including all else:
- Pauline (counting Geno as third party here)
- Dixie Kong
- uhhhhhhhh Impa
- Bandana Dee and/or Adeleine
- Poochy
- random SwSh Pokemon
- Kumatora
- Black Shadow
- Byleth
- good as is (RIP Krystal, otherwise I’d include her)
- Medusa
- good as is
- Mona, since I’m counting Ashley out of the running
- good as is
- Disco Kid, yeah going for the dark horse pick here
- Sylux maybe
- good as is
Retroes () - good as is
- Elma, with maybe a Mecha-Fiora echo or semi clone
- Octoling
Other - Akira Howard (Astral Chain), Twintelle (ARMS; Spring Man walked so Twintelle could run)

 

[fogbadge]

I'd imagine that this was back during the whole "Celda" hate phase people had at the time and the game was practically in the middle of it. Especially since Minish Cap beared a similar art style as the Wind Waker (at least as far as the official art went)
I think the game was also released around the end of the GBA's lifespan and the DS was approaching so that might have also played a part in it I suppose.

Nowadays the game has grown into more of a cult classic these days so seeing it ignored so often by Nintendo is quite unfortunate.

well its their loss, its a great game

 

[Quillion]

Then this just makes Nintendo's refusal to acknowledge anything else from the Capcom Zelda games even more confusing.

If you mean Smash, then we already have several spirits from the Capcom games like the Oracles, Ezlo, the animal companions, and Vaati.

If you mean Nintendo in general, Zelda soft reboots every game, so they can't always reference everything at once.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I would really love if Rex & Pyra and Ashley (I know she's an AT, but still) were playable. I'm starting to get kind of tired of third parties after the niche Terry and irrelevant Banjo.

 

[Quillion]

I would really love if Rex & Pyra and Ashley (I know she's an AT, but still) were playable. I'm starting to get kind of tired of third parties after the niche Terry and irrelevant Banjo.

If you're tired of third party characters, the solution is to look west more instead of focusing on just the Japanese characters that Smaah seems bent on focusing on.

 

[fogbadge]

I would really love if Rex & Pyra and Ashley (I know she's an AT, but still) were playable. I'm starting to get kind of tired of third parties after the niche Terry and irrelevant Banjo.

relevance doesnt matter in smash

If you're tired of third party characters, the solution is to look west more instead of focusing on just the Japanese characters that Smaah seems bent on focusing on.

we just got a pair of british characters

 

[Sebas22]

irrelevant Banjo.

Ice Climbers.

 

[Arthur97]

Banjo and Kazooie are always relevant to Nintendo. That said Terry is extremely niche.

Ice Climbers.

Thing is, retros kind of play by their own rules. I will say relevancy isn't the end all, but it is generally important in some regard. Though, what Sakurai considers relevant might change on a year to year basis. That, or based on what he thinks he can get away with. Relevance is probably what will kill Rex's (yeah, and probably Pyra and Mythra with him) chances going forward since by the next Smash, his time will have come and gone.