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Bandana Waddle Dee is the obvious choice and whilst I do support him due to his relatively big icon status and similar description to Toad(as the generic species member of the team) I got to confess I've got a soft spot for Gooey, the original second player character. His face is just goofy and he'd be the most amusing Kirby semi clone ever.
Kirby would finally get a clone of his own (series) after Jigglypuff in the original N64 game!
Right here, my friend. To this day, I still feel like Corrin's spot as Smash 4's ONLY 1st party DLC newcomer should have gone to the little guy. After a string of questionable promotion for his games as well as his games themselves varying in quality, the poor little guy DESPERATELY needed a bone thrown to him.
Yeah, but aren't all the Other M songs hold overs from 4? It would arguably make less sense not to include them.
Yeah, I don't like how specific he is to BotW (to be fair, I actually didn't care for the game that much). I mean, yeah, TP Link had the Gale Boomerang, but that was one move. They even replaced his FS with that pathetic ancient arrow (though, he never apparently had a piece of the Triforce).
Essentially, yeah, Plant is less unique than Bandana Dee, so bring it on. Plant is also potentially in my top 5 newcomers. Along with Ridley, K.Rool, and Chrom.
I like Piranha Plant a lot, lol. I just don't like the hat goomba meme.
i wonder how the fandom would have reacted to him if we got him instead of corrin
So much this. Imagine if instead of promoting a game that really didn't need it, they used that promotion to try and help Chibi not get killed?
Uh-huh. And do tell me, where could they possibly have mentioned it outside of Smash?
It's less I can't fathom people not having the same taste in characters and more I don't understand why people aren't treating more of the first party inclusions as a win. If you're fighting against the norm, I feel like you have to take every win you get even if that's not necessarily what you want. And like Piranha Plant is a super unique, essentially deep cut (in that they act outside the norm of what is expected) that happens to be known to lots of people and does bring something different to the roster. I guess the Plant hate for not being a "more requested fighter" is sort of the issue I have with people. Not every addition is going to be to your liking of course, but the outrage against Plant just doesn't pair well with a push for first parties that people often cite as more interesting and unique than the top dogs of third parties like the post I'll quote below.
I mean, isn't this discounting that people just enjoy playing as their favorite characters regardless of "how interesting" other first party options might be. They may be generic protagonists, but people adore them and want to see them in the big giant crossover fighting game in spades. It's not really soulless when tons of people just genuinely like all these third parties or are able to recognize how many people will be happy with their inclusions beyond themselves.
There are several reasons why people can hate Piranha Plant. Some might attribute the notion that 'first parties are scraping the bottom of the barrel' to it getting in. Some might dislike its moveset. Some might feel like a mook getting in is missing the point of the series.
You don't but we do. Is that so hard to accept?
The mere fact Torna exists demonstrates the gap between the two. If you think that this of all things is likely to be the only other first party DLC, I think you are deluding yourself with your own bias. Just...why? Why pick the least popular entry from a niche series? If they don't have faith in any other first parties to sell, why on Earth would they pick one of their weakest? Especially if they're saving it for #5.
Tbf, "saving it" for #5, if anything, could be because it's much weaker than the preceding fighters that were revealed first to get the hypest reveals out first; just look at how Incineroar was the grand finale to superior picks.
But the game doesn't have a Rhythm Heaven rep.
The battle system sounded interesting to me but apparently in execution it's garbage + everything else about the game is just lifeless and since it's a Game Freak game and not Nintendo, I could see it getting a spirit similar to Daemon X Machina and that's about it.
Me too.
This is ALWAYS what I think. I really thought that after the bad rap Zip-Lash was getting, it would have culminated in Chibi being added to Smash 4, instead of Corrin.
Little Town Hero isn't first party.
Same. It's the only "Zelda" game I've played that I actually dislike.
Really? I thought it was as much Nintendo as Kirby or Pokemon are (they're second party, but let's be honest: by 1st party we mean Nintendo in general or else we wouldn't allow talking about Bandana Dee or Gen 8 Pokemon). Is LTH actually 3rd party? Is there a source for it being 3rd party?
Whether or not you have a point here is meaningless because I was referring to past tense. "Before Snake was announced for Brawl" is the major point. Context matters...
There is a difference in behavior between "lack of interest" and "actively trying to define the debate." I have experience with this debating politics. If you truly had a lack of interest in first-party inclusions, you would've saw this thread, knew what it was gonna be about and said "**** it, in the spirit of the OP I'll let them have their talks" but you didn't. No good deed goes unpunished. Do you think that maybe this thread was made with specifically you (and maybe tehponycorn) in mind?
You say you don't generalize but you do exactly that with Nintendo picks. "They wouldn't generate hype while third-parties will..." Imagine if Smash wasn't made by Nintendo from the onset and it was some other software developer (like say, Bandai Namco). The intention was always to include ANY video game IP they could get the license to and that put every company on the table, no console exclusives. That would mean Nintendo was a "third-party" pick just as much as everyone else. What do you think would happen? Nintendo would dominate discussion anyways since they are the company with both the history AND the IP quantity to make it happen. The only people who would complain are people who weren't interested in Nintendo to begin with. You see how the tone shifts when you stop thinking of it as "Nintendo vs. everyone else." And you're still trying to gatekeep by saying we should advocate for the newer stuff if we should be taken seriously. The "relevency" argument mattered as much as "Banjo vs. Steve," and how did that work out? Oh, but I guess it's different 'cause it's third-party and that means...... different or something.
You come off as someone who would flip just by me mentioning it, but I'm gonna anyways. "Objective art analysis" is a thing. That doesn't mean subjective interpretations are invalid, but what the art actually IS matters just as much, and what the art is goes against what the author says it is or intended it to be. One of the most infamous examples is George Lucas' insistence that Star Wars was "meant for kids," even though the original movies and even some of the newer stuff has elements not suitable for children. Lucas says one thing about the franchise but the actual content says another. Likewise, it doesn't matter if Sakurai or anyone at Nintendo saying it's a "general gaming crossover," what matters is the actual content, and Smash is still a Nintendo crossover with several guests even if every DLC for this game ends up third-party...
I'm pretty sure Nintendo has no involvement with the project and Game Freak are self-publishing.
Yeah but there are spirits and a few music tracks from the franchise in Ultimate, so I'd hope they wouldn't immediately overlook it just because it already has a spot of some representation in this big video game crossover like Rayman or Shantae have.
I'm not sure I disliked it, but I think it really butchered some of the lore (mainly the Hylia and Fi things which at least Skyword Sword had an out for why they were never mentioned in the rest of the series). Plus, the nature of the game left a lot to be desired for the plot, though I will give them props for actually looking into Link's character a little. The dungeons were mostly terrible though, and the lack of special items hurt it for me.
Well, I guess it would be even more underwhelming than Terry. Really though, the peak for DLC wasn't even at the start, I'd say it was at E3 (at different ends of the direct depending on your preferences).
Then never mind. It's just Euden and Howard Twins (and Byleth if you count repped franchises) then.
Your pre-Snake commentary didn't really land because I didn't find it phrased super well, so I didn't really get what you were going for. You were referring to past tense in regards to before Snake and present tense in regards to the IPs not currently in Smash unless I've misunderstood and you were seriously commenting upon Snake's inclusion as the problem because "tons of first party IPs didn't get their shot or included" with him as the target of that scorn.
I phrased that argument perfectly. First paragraph was the establishing the setting (pre-Snake as in before 3rd parties) and the next paragraph is the argument ("it didn't make third-party support any less valid"). The sentence you took issue with: "And to top it all off, a TON of potential characters and IPs still didn't get their shot." Yeah, that's still past tense. Present tense would've been "still don't have." *sigh*
Forgive me for not taking you seriously regarding the "worst of the community," and "those people." I can think of numerous worse attributes than "not interested in certain characters." When you say this is a "once in a lifetime" opportunity, that is an immediate red flag as that is a mindset that can justify a lot of iffy behavior. I will give you credit that you are very civil, but you still have that gatekeeping habit.
Appealing to the habitual greed of a company. Sure, but there isn't only one way to approach that. For instance, what if Xenoblade Chronicles X were to be ported to the Switch? Would adding Elma to Smash during the release make financial sense? Maybe not for Smash, but most definitely for XCX since Smash has the broader audience. So here's an older character that got superseded by a more recent game that would still fit your criteria if the circumstances call for it. This is what frustrates me about business arguments, there's still a bunch of picking and choosing despite the supposed "fixed appeal" to it. Yoshi games are still relevant but Poochy is out of the question apparently despite even getting his name on one of the titles. People have an issue with Three Houses and Gen 8 Pokemon not because their so recent, it's because everyone in the "Bubble" you lament pretend they're the ONLY relevant Nintendo picks. You'd think Nintendo was Sega or something if they relied on such a small pool of IPs. And all those characters you listed besides Rex/Pyra still had a long standing history along with relevency, it's not like only relevency mattered there.
ah now that i get there has always seemed to be not much in terms of promotion for him, iirc zip-lash had about average promotion at least on nintendo uk
Easily focus on the major one-shots, more interesting and defining. They could easily become Smash equivalent like Ness and Captain Falcon.
Interesting question, and the response I would give is "Recuring Roles"
Characters like Skull Kid.
One-offs no doubt. Those are the most iconic, the most requested and the most unique. After that, Tingle and Impa also seem like good candidates, along with Tetra and MM Link.
