The Final Two Characters: The Ambiguous Situation Befallen Upon Us

[GolisoPower]

Today, we're talking about Fighters Pass 2, or rather, this peculiar situation we're in. Lemme explain:

Historically, Super Smash Bros content waves (Such as base game or DLC), have always been low-key (Some call it underwhelming) reveals at the end of those waves:

• Smash 4 DLC: Corrin and Bayonetta
• Ultimate base game: Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant
• Fighters Pass 1: Byleth

Also historically, Super Smash Bros reveals at E3 have always had multiple blowout reveals:

• E3 2013: Villager, Mega Man & Wii Fit Trainer
• E3 2014: Mii Fighters, Palutena and PAC-MAN
• E3 2015: Roy & Ryu
• E3 2018: Daisy and Ridley (Also Inkling, technically, but we knew they were coming long beforehand.)
• E3 2019: Hero & Banjo
• (Possibly) E3 2020: Min Min & Steve (E3 2020 was canceled then, but considering the releases of these two characters, it wouldn't be out there)

Why bring this up? Well, here's the thing: we're fast-approaching both the final two fighters and E3 2021. If it wasn't E3, we'd probably be bracing ourselves for disappointment. If it wasn't the final characters, we'd be running around like headless chickens thinking about who the big reveal is gonna be.

At this rate, we don't know if it'll be one or the other. Or both. We could have disappointing reveals and have backlash worse than E3 2015. We could have finale characters uncharacteristically super-hype. Or we could have one disappointing character and one super-hype character at the same time. The possibilities are so up in the air it's not funny. What's E3 2021 gonna be like for Smash???

 

[Guynamednelson]

E3 is going to have a lower-key blowout than Steve and Sephiroth. He'd be more of a blowout if this was base game, if anything.

 

[Sage of Ice]

the last newcomer i got excited for was ridley, and before that it was sonic. so personally, i'm not holding my breath. for broader appeal, though? i'm sure at least one of the last two will make mouths froth all across the internet - maybe not to the extent of sephiroth or minecraft, but i'll have paper towels at the ready all the same

 

[osby]

Bayonetta and Byleth were super hype for me so I'll take a third option: Everyone will be screaming about how the last fighters are a disgrace to the franchise while I'll be sitting there as the embodiment of michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif

 

[Louie G.]

Ambitious on my end, but I think both characters will be hype. Except I believe one character will be more "lowkey" which generally ends up being the more exciting characters for me, while the other will be more widespread hype as a big crowd-pleaser pick for E3. Hype is all relative, after all.

Most importantly, I'm just not counting on a Corrin / Byleth tier disappointment again. I'm pretty certain we're done with first parties altogether unless they really wanna throw a curveball and give us one that doesn't necessarily correlate to a new / Switch release (which in turn would IMO be exciting in and of itself).

 

[MattX20]

I imagine we have at least one more noteworthy third party addition to the roster, who will most likely appear at E3. As for FP11, it could be a first party pick akin to Ayumi Tachibana for example. Nintendo usually saves something big for every E3 they've been a part of for Smash 4 onwards, so I don't think both are going to be Byleth levels of disappointing or enraging.

 

[Perkilator]

I keep desperately hoping that Crash is one of the final two. If he were a base game fighter, I’d feel a lot less tense.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

It depends one the perspective in my opinion.

The last super hype reveal for me was Simon. I love Castlevania and after the dissapointing Netflix show, i needed something to cheer me up, and he was revealed at the perfect time. Amazing moveset, great character deisgn, etc. K.Rool was amazing too, and so was Banjo, but Simon was a personal wish of mine, and to see it being handled so perfectly was a dream come true.


We may not get a First Party, but the last reveal will truly be underwhelming for the grand majority, if not for the only reason of it being a last reveal in of itself. E3 doesn't guarantee hype, look at Roy for example (and he was the highlight for E3 2015 for me unironically)


Also it's possible we may get only ONE reveal at E3, keep that in mind.

 

[Pupp135]

I’ll say CP10 could be “hype” or something closer to a frontrunner. I’m thinking something like Rayman, Eggman, or Tails (I don’t think FP1 miis disconfirm since Rex was supposed to be in) have potential.
For CP11, it probably won’t be a frontrunner since they usually end on somthing different like Ness, Wolf, and Byleth (I was hyped for Byleth, but there were complaints about them). More specifically, I see it being a Nintendo character who is relevant but not highly requested.

 

[toonito]

Today, we're talking about Fighters Pass 2, or rather, this peculiar situation we're in. Lemme explain:

Historically, Super Smash Bros content waves (Such as base game or DLC), have always been low-key (Some call it underwhelming) reveals at the end of those waves:

• Smash 4 DLC: Corrin and Bayonetta
• Ultimate base game: Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant
• Fighters Pass 1: Byleth

Also historically, Super Smash Bros reveals at E3 have always had multiple blowout reveals:

• E3 2013: Villager, Mega Man & Wii Fit Trainer
• E3 2014: Mii Fighters, Palutena and PAC-MAN
• E3 2015: Roy & Ryu
• E3 2018: Daisy and Ridley (Also Inkling, technically, but we knew they were coming long beforehand.)
• E3 2019: Hero & Banjo
• (Possibly) E3 2020: Min Min & Steve (E3 2020 was canceled then, but considering the releases of these two characters, it wouldn't be out there)

Why bring this up? Well, here's the thing: we're fast-approaching both the final two fighters and E3 2021. If it wasn't E3, we'd probably be bracing ourselves for disappointment. If it wasn't the final characters, we'd be running around like headless chickens thinking about who the big reveal is gonna be.

At this rate, we don't know if it'll be one or the other. Or both. We could have disappointing reveals and have backlash worse than E3 2015. We could have finale characters uncharacteristically super-hype. Or we could have one disappointing character and one super-hype character at the same time. The possibilities are so up in the air it's not funny. What's E3 2021 gonna be like for Smash???

Hype is always subjective because for me:

I liked Bayo's reveal and like to watch and play as her
Corrin was meh to me but he became one of my fav FE characters to the point where I'd keep him over other FE characters if they were cuts to be made (a very unpopular opinion)
Ken was my most hype reveal from Ultimate base game (yes over Ridley and K Rool) and Incineroar was the Gen 7 starter I most wanted
Byleth was disappointing because I admittedly got caught up in the Dante rumors at the time but is another FE character who's grown on me.

Going by past trends at E3 it seems like the last 2 characters in FP2 are set to be revealed next month since Smash @ E3 tends to have multiple characters revealed. However, I can't shake the feeling that this year only 1 character will be revealed at E3 and CP11 will be revealed at the Fall Nintendo Direct.

IMO Big picks like Crash, Master Chief, Sora, etc. would be the E3 showcase. I'm kinda leaning towards if those characters are not revealed at E3 I don't think they're coming at all. Despite "evidence" seemingly disconfirming them I've never completely ruled out a Gen 8 rep. Pythra's inclusion slightly increased their chances IMO.

I think that the last 2 characters will be one hype and one lower key pick. I have no idea who'd those two would be.

 

[Phaazoid]

Idk I think the two last characters are pretty easy to figure out.

One is going to be the token pokemon, we still haven't gotten one and gen 8 needs that representation. I guess you could speculate on which pokemon but that's boring.

And the other one is probably the last major character to still not have made it into smash, people tend to forget about him on these boards, but I don't think the game could be complete without Trogdor, the Burninator.

So yeah meh hype with some rando pokemon and then through the roof with our loveable wingaling dragon.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I feel like a LOT of characters are gonna have their last chance at E3. Based on past trends, I doubt F11 will be a big name, so this seems to be their last chance to have another one.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

If I have to imagine a scenario, I would say that there will be two reveals at E3, the first character revealed will be not a character that's considered "huge", while the second character will be the fireworks to end the DLC.

I'm personally seeing Master Chief at E3 for sure, be it one or two characters revealed anyway.

In both cases, I'm expecting the DLC to be fully released by September 30.

 

[fogbadge]

my money is on disappointment

 

[GoodGrief741]

Expectations are way too high so I think for most people they'll be disappointed. I've lowered my expectations a lot though so I expect I'll be satisfied... Maybe.

 

[fogbadge]

Expectations are way too high so I think for most people they'll be disappointed. I've lowered my expectations a lot though so I expect I'll be satisfied... Maybe.

ive got low expectations and i still think ill be disappointed

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One excitement, the other a whimper.

 

[Garteam]

While I don't have any solid predictions, here are my thoughts on the final two characters:

I think anyone expecting a massive character like Crash or Master Chief is going to be somewhat disappointed. Smash has been very, very consistent about having its larger names pushed towards the front and its smaller ones pushed towards the back. Nintendo always plays their most "hype" cards first and fills out the rest of the wave with what's remaining. I don't really see this as a trend that will be breaking any time soon.

Some people could say that Nintendo intentionally planned to save a crowd pleaser for E3, but I'm also skeptical of this. No wave of Smash characters has had more than two big third parties added (most likely for budgeting reasons, the licenses to multimillion-dollar IPs aren't cheap) and we've already had , the protagonist of the literal best-selling game of all time whose negotiations took 5 years to complete, and , gaming's second-biggest antagonist who comes from a game with notoriously expensive and hard to wrangle rights. Either Nintendo increased the budget of FP2 by a significant margin (a claim with little to no evidence to back it up) or we're working with smaller names for the final two characters.

For E3 2021, I think we're only going to see FP10. The Second Fighter's Pass has been very consistent in revealing characters very close to their release date. The exception was the ARMS guessing game, but that was likely done because there would otherwise be a six-month gap of nothing between Byleth and Min Min. I imagine FP11 will be revealed in the usually scheduled September Direct or in their own Sakurai Presents like the before-mentioned characters.

For FP10, there are two broad directions I could see things going in:

• A more lowkey third party to round out the pass, similar to Bayonetta or Terry. I imagine they would be a well-liked character that many people will know, but someone largely unexpected and unknown to more casual audiences. Picture someone like Lloyd, Adol, or the Story of Seasons Farmer.
• Another promotional character for the Switch. Most likely one of King Boo or Ayumi Tachibana based on Nintendo's major releases that haven't received a spirit event or character yet. Alternatively, we get a character from a game that was supposed to be unveiled and released last year/earlier in the year but whose release was shuffled due to COVID's impact on Nintendo's developments.

 

[fogbadge]

, gaming's second-biggest antagonist

i dont think thats true

 

[Garteam]

i dont think thats true

While that statement is obviously up for debate, it seems to sum up Sakurai's views on the matter:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Sephiroth"

Watch the full Super Smash Bros. Ultimate presentation featuring Sephiroth and see what the One-Winged Angel can do! Sephiroth arrives 12/22 and is available...

youtu.be

"I think he might be one of the most well-known villains in video games, aside from Bowser".

 

[fogbadge]

While that statement is obviously up for debate, it seems to sum up Sakurai's views on the matter:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Mr. Sakurai Presents "Sephiroth"

Watch the full Super Smash Bros. Ultimate presentation featuring Sephiroth and see what the One-Winged Angel can do! Sephiroth arrives 12/22 and is available...

youtu.be

"I think he might be one of the most well-known villains in video games, aside from Bowser".

yeah but surely Ganon is bigger for one

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

yeah but surely Ganon is bigger for one

You do know that gaming and its history exists outside the void of Nintendo consoles and E10+-rated franchises, right?

 

[fogbadge]

You do know that gaming and its history exists outside the void of Nintendo consoles and E10+-rated franchises, right?

yes I was replying on my phone and couldn’t be bothered writing a whole list

geez you’d think I’d written a list of solely Nintendo villains the way you reacted

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

While I don't have any solid predictions, here are my thoughts on the final two characters:

I think anyone expecting a massive character like Crash or Master Chief is going to be somewhat disappointed. Smash has been very, very consistent about having its larger names pushed towards the front and its smaller ones pushed towards the back. Nintendo always plays their most "hype" cards first and fills out the rest of the wave with what's remaining. I don't really see this as a trend that will be breaking any time soon.

Some people could say that Nintendo intentionally planned to save a crowd pleaser for E3, but I'm also skeptical of this. No wave of Smash characters has had more than two big third parties added (most likely for budgeting reasons, the licenses to multimillion-dollar IPs aren't cheap) and we've already had , the protagonist of the literal best-selling game of all time whose negotiations took 5 years to complete, and , gaming's second-biggest antagonist who comes from a game with notoriously expensive and hard to wrangle rights. Either Nintendo increased the budget of FP2 by a significant margin (a claim with little to no evidence to back it up) or we're working with smaller names for the final two characters.

For E3 2021, I think we're only going to see FP10. The Second Fighter's Pass has been very consistent in revealing characters very close to their release date. The exception was the ARMS guessing game, but that was likely done because there would otherwise be a six-month gap of nothing between Byleth and Min Min. I imagine FP11 will be revealed in the usually scheduled September Direct or in their own Sakurai Presents like the before-mentioned characters.

For FP10, there are two broad directions I could see things going in:

• A more lowkey third party to round out the pass, similar to Bayonetta or Terry. I imagine they would be a well-liked character that many people will know, but someone largely unexpected and unknown to more casual audiences. Picture someone like Lloyd, Adol, or the Story of Seasons Farmer.
• Another promotional character for the Switch. Most likely one of King Boo or Ayumi Tachibana based on Nintendo's major releases that haven't received a spirit event or character yet. Alternatively, we get a character from a game that was supposed to be unveiled and released last year/earlier in the year but whose release was shuffled due to COVID's impact on Nintendo's developments.

This is exactly how I feel. I think we're only going to get a single reveal and they're going to hold that last fighter until at least September to have a big blowout event just like they did for Smash 4.

As for who it could be, I'm going with your first point of it being a more lowkey third-party character who isn't speculated in the slightest, and I think I nailed down who that could possibly be: I'm calling Nightmare from Soul Calibur

-Long overdue Bamco rep that would bring back Lloyd's missing costume
-Stance change being a unique gameplay mechanic to bring to Smash
-Another fighting game character for Sakurai to play with
-Soul Calibur is known for it's crazy crossovers
-Has legit history with Nintendo thanks to Link making it into Soul Calibur 2 way back when and you just know they'd push the "rematch" angle between Link and Nightmare

I want it to be Crash or Sora, but Sora is tied up in so many legal hurdles that I've made peace with him being a never-ever. Crash I've been sort of looking at through a magnifying glass and I'm finding that every point people make that says he's a lock-in just doesn't hold water to me.

-The "Activision Five-Year Plan" definitely exists, but by the time the public were told anything about it it was all things we already knew about except for the Smash stuff, which someone could have just tacked on to make it sound legit. Why would this be proof if so far NO Pass 2 character has leaked that far in advance?
-"Clock Theory" might actually be a hit AGAINST Crash if it is indeed a reference to him. Sakurai does not hint at upcoming announcements in his pic of the day posts, it's a point he's reiterated over and over again. Why would he make a cheeky Crash reference if he were coming? It's even more damning if the Fox/Creeper picture is meant to be a crash reference too
-The recent voice actor shenanigans is most definitely not for Smash. Crash's characters are wild and cartoony with exaggerated manner of speech, voice acting for a trailer would have to be done months in advance, not a week ago. Unless they just use archival recordings which seems the most likely.

All that said, I think anyone expecting the world at E3 is going to be very salty when it's all over. I know people hate to hear it, but it needs to be said.

HYPE. RESPONSIBLY.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ngl I keep reading “Upon Us” as “Among Us”

anyway, I do think it’ll be a double reveal, and it will not be a Corrin and Bayonetta repeat. I’ll write up more elaborate thoughts later

but also yes, hype responsibly

 

[fogbadge]

or maybe we should not hype at all

you know just wait til you know what you’re getting before you hype it’s a lot easier

 

[MattX20]

This is exactly how I feel. I think we're only going to get a single reveal and they're going to hold that last fighter until at least September to have a big blowout event just like they did for Smash 4.

As for who it could be, I'm going with your first point of it being a more lowkey third-party character who isn't speculated in the slightest, and I think I nailed down who that could possibly be: I'm calling Nightmare from Soul Calibur

-Long overdue Bamco rep that would bring back Lloyd's missing costume
-Stance change being a unique gameplay mechanic to bring to Smash
-Another fighting game character for Sakurai to play with
-Soul Calibur is known for it's crazy crossovers
-Has legit history with Nintendo thanks to Link making it into Soul Calibur 2 way back when and you just know they'd push the "rematch" angle between Link and Nightmare
View attachment 316344

I want it to be Crash or Sora, but Sora is tied up in so many legal hurdles that I've made peace with him being a never-ever. Crash I've been sort of looking at through a magnifying glass and I'm finding that every point people make that says he's a lock-in just doesn't hold water to me.

-The "Activision Five-Year Plan" definitely exists, but by the time the public were told anything about it it was all things we already knew about except for the Smash stuff, which someone could have just tacked on to make it sound legit. Why would this be proof if so far NO Pass 2 character has leaked that far in advance?
-"Clock Theory" might actually be a hit AGAINST Crash if it is indeed a reference to him. Sakurai does not hint at upcoming announcements in his pic of the day posts, it's a point he's reiterated over and over again. Why would he make a cheeky Crash reference if he were coming? It's even more damning if the Fox/Creeper picture is meant to be a crash reference too
-The recent voice actor shenanigans is most definitely not for Smash. Crash's characters are wild and cartoony with exaggerated manner of speech, voice acting for a trailer would have to be done months in advance, not a week ago. Unless they just use archival recordings which seems the most likely.

All that said, I think anyone expecting the world at E3 is going to be very salty when it's all over. I know people hate to hear it, but it needs to be said.

HYPE. RESPONSIBLY.

Nightmare could be a fun choice. Plus, Soul Calibur showing up in Smash would be a nice way to come full circle

 

[Geno Boost]

i am worried the last 2 might be dissapointing for me just like the reveal when they turned out to be the last 2
also i am not into modern characters or characters that just simply put for new game advertisment purposes.
i hope nintnendo picked characters that can make everyone happy including old gamers for the last 2 fighters.

 

[fogbadge]

Nightmare could be a fun choice. Plus, Soul Calibur showing up in Smash would be a nice way to come full circle

why is nightmare always to go to soul calibur character? is it cause hes in their logo?

 

[Mamboo07]

why is nightmare always to go to soul calibur character? is it cause hes in their logo?

Yes, also him being a mascot.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes, also him being a mascot.

is he? Can’t say I’ve ever seen anything to suggest that

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nightmare could be a fun choice. Plus, Soul Calibur showing up in Smash would be a nice way to come full circle

And make up for Heihachi as Soulcalibur's gameplay mechanics I recall are easier to implement into Smash than Tekken's.

 

[Perkilator]

10 & 11 pic.twitter.com/py5myWAP8e

— HMK (@HMKilla) May 25, 2021

I wanna keep hope alive, darn it! These two would not only be pretty good E3 reveals (even if only one of them was revealed there), but they'd be a pretty good end to Vol. 2.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Idk I think the two last characters are pretty easy to figure out.

One is going to be the token pokemon, we still haven't gotten one and gen 8 needs that representation. I guess you could speculate on which pokemon but that's boring.

And the other one is probably the last major character to still not have made it into smash, people tend to forget about him on these boards, but I don't think the game could be complete without Trogdor, the Burninator.

So yeah meh hype with some rando pokemon and then through the roof with our loveable wingaling dragon.

This. I feel like we're going to get a gen 8 Pokemon (deflatingballoon.mp4) to start off the presentation, and they'll end it on a moderately big 3rd-party like Rayman.

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

My money is on Dva and Crash

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My money is on Dva and Crash

Interesting, why D.va specifically? When Tracer’s the mascot of OW?

 

[AZ_Spellbound]

Interesting, why D.va specifically? When Tracer’s the mascot of OW?

I just think that an OW character is likely, but Tracer would be too easy. I’m also sure that Dva is probably the most popular character in the East as well as being very popular in the West

 

[ZelDan]

Didn't the head of the OW team say something along the lines of "if we were to get a character in Smash, it'd be Tracer."

that plus her being the macot of OW, I'm 99.9% sure tracer would be chosen as the OW rep.

And for the topic at hand, I'm thinking that Cp10 will be a "big" "hype" character and the CP11 will be a more lowkey or "hype for a more spefific group" kind of deal.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Didn't the head of the OW team say something along the lines of "if we were to get a character in Smash, it'd be Tracer."

that plus her being the macot of OW, I'm 99.9% sure tracer would be chosen as the OW rep.

And for the topic at hand, I'm thinking that Cp10 will be a "big" "hype" character and the CP11 will be a more lowkey or "hype for a more spefific group" kind of deal.

I can't really see an Acti rep other than Crash getting in honestly, maybe Captain Price could make it in but I imagine Tracer wouldn't be their first choice for an ActiBlizz fighter unless Activision and Blizzard are treated as seperate entities in negotiations and Blizzard are asking less.

 

[RileyXY1]

This. I feel like we're going to get a gen 8 Pokemon (deflatingballoon.mp4) to start off the presentation, and they'll end it on a moderately big 3rd-party like Rayman.

Because of that Spirit Event I don't expect any new Pokemon character being added.