Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[jespoke]

The patch notes say Bowser Jr's Side-B and Fair do more damage, though i haven't seen anyone post it.

Edit:

 

[Vipermoon]

Jab 1 total duration has changed from 28 > 25.

Jab 2 (28 frames?) and down tilt (23 frames?) are the same.

Nice. So Jab 1 matches Melee, beats Brawl by 2. Utilt beats Brawl by 6, loses to Melee by 2. Ftilt beats Brawl and Melee by 2. Dtilt loses to Brawl and Melee by 2 and 4. Dsmash beats Brawl and Melee by 10 and 7.

Last one, Dancing Blade 1? I'm almost certain it's unchanged.

 

[Faltrazz]

I can confirm that it not longer works on Falcon on any stage. It also no longer works on Samus, ZSS, Ganondorf, and Link on Battlefield and Smashville type ledges -.-"

gonna post an update video on your channel?

 

[FallofBrawl]

I wonder if Jab 1 to Fsmash is reliable for Marth.

I don't know about the weight changes, wasn't the base stats confirmed in certain characters that weren't sheik and zss, does weight even fall under base stats?

Zelda's weight might be changed as well to match Sheiks (?)

 

[Darklink401]

Nice. So Jab 1 matches Melee, beats Brawl by 2. Utilt beats Brawl by 6, loses to Melee by 2. Ftilt beats Brawl and Melee by 2. Dtilt loses to Brawl and Melee by 2 and 4. Dsmash beats Brawl and Melee by 10 and 7.

Last one, Dancing Blade 1? I'm almost certain it's unchanged.

I tested aerial DB 1.

On old patch if I do sh db 1, I can't get bair's hitbox to come out

In the new patch, sh db 1 allows your bair to come out.

 

[Avokha]

I am told that Robin now jumps higher than last patch. Can anybody confirm this for me?

 

[puffypalutena]

R.I.P Palu ;-;

 

[Vipermoon]

I tested aerial DB 1.

On old patch if I do sh db 1, I can't get bair's hitbox to come out

In the new patch, sh db 1 allows your bair to come out.

That is unreliable actually. Your SH DB air time is very sensitive depending on when you input the DB. And FWIW, SH DB1 to Nair 1 works the same way for me. It's unchanged.

 

[McDareth]

A Falco buff this time: Up Smash kills around 15% earlier (killed Fox on FD at 101% in the current patch and it wouldn't kill Fox till 115% on my 3DS which is on patch 1.0.4 [yeah it's awhile ago but the KB on his Up Smash didn't really change besides making the first link into the second properly])

His Up Smash also now hits opponents who are laying on the ground (again tested on Fox in this patch vs. Fox in patch 1.0.4) it even hits Kirby and Game and Watch while they are crouching.

gonna post an update video on your channel?

Possibly, I just updated the title and the description on the original video to say that it was patched out.

 

[Darklink401]

That is unreliable actually. Your SH DB air time is very sensitive depending on when you input the DB. And FWIW, SH DB1 to Nair 1 works the same way for me. It's unchanged.

If I sh db 1 as quick as possible, on 3ds, the bair won't come out, but on the new patch, it does. And I tested it at least 10 times on each. They're the same conditions, but I'm getting a bair to come out only post-patch. I'm inputting them both as fast as possible. Also now untippered sh db 1 is comboing into upair, which normally only combos if you tipper it.

 

[LRodC]

A Falco buff this time: Up Smash kills around 15% earlier (killed Fox on FD at 101% in the current patch and it wouldn't kill Fox till 115% on my 3DS which is on patch 1.0.4 [yeah it's awhile ago but the KB on his Up Smash didn't really change besides making the first link into the second properly])

The 3DS version has larger blast zones.

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

Going to need confirmation on this, but I think Wii Fit Trainer's air speed is faster?

 

[McDareth]

The 3DS version has larger blast zones.

Even still on average Up Smash didn't kill most characters till around 130% before. I don't know the exact number for Fox as I didn't test it on him extensively in the past, but on Falcon it was noticeable that he was dying much faster at 130 then the last patch.

 

[Chiroz]

A Falco buff this time: Up Smash kills around 15% earlier (killed Fox on FD at 101% in the current patch and it wouldn't kill Fox till 115% on my 3DS which is on patch 1.0.4 [yeah it's awhile ago but the KB on his Up Smash didn't really change besides making the first link into the second properly])

His Up Smash also now hits opponents who are laying on the ground (again tested on Fox in this patch vs. Fox in patch 1.0.4) it even hits Kirby and Game and Watch while they are crouching.


Possibly, I just updated the title and the description on the original video to say that it was patched out.

3DS has larger blastzones on all stages but DLC shared stages (IE: Dream Land).

Just test on Dream Land

 

[Vipermoon]

If I sh db 1 as quick as possible, on 3ds, the bair won't come out, but on the new patch, it does. And I tested it at least 10 times on each. They're the same conditions, but I'm getting a bair to come out only post-patch. I'm inputting them both as fast as possible. Also now untippered sh db 1 is comboing into upair, which normally only combos if you tipper it.

I was doing that same exact Bair test between the 3DS 1.0.3 and some earlier Wii U patch months ago. I forgot the conclusion but it wasn't changed then and it isn't changed now. You can get Uair without the tipper DB. The rule is that it combos around the time DB puts them in tumble.

And they have no reason to do that. They'll take lag off of grounded DB1 and DB4-down before they do that. Other than the 3 frames of extra start-up, the aerial animation is just as fast as Brawl.

 

[McDareth]

3DS has larger blastzones on all stages but DLC shared stages (IE: Dream Land).

Just test on Dream Land

This 3DS is hasn't been updated since the Wii U release so I can't test on Dream Land :/

I did the test on the Wii U version though on Fox again and he dies at 101% if someone could test this on Dream Land on the 3DS

 

[jmjb]

I'd think this was intentional so people who use tap jump aren't screwed over.

man people playing Bayonetta will have to learn to play with tap jump, and to not use c stick for tilts or aerials.. also to up b before the double jump.. she's literally just wants to everyone to relearn how to play smash lol.

on another note, zelda weights more than shiek now, just confirmed. fox fully charged up smash kills shiek at 58 at fd, and kills zelda at 59, no di, training mode.

 

[Vipermoon]

man people playing Bayonetta will have to learn to play with tap jump, and to not use c stick for tilts or aerials.. also to up b before the double jump.. she's literally just wants to everyone to relearn how to play smash lol.

on another note, zelda weights more than shiek now, just confirmed. fox fully charged up smash kills shiek at 58 at fd, and kills zelda at 59, no di, training mode.

They have different gravities and max fall speeds. That isn't reliable. Try using the scale on the right side of the Pikmin stage.

 

[Darklink401]

They have different gravities and max fall speeds. That isn't reliable. Try using the scale on the right side of the Pikmin stage.

Zelda is more floaty but that would mean she would die before sheik.

Also if aerial db 1 didn't get buffed in endlag, how am I getting bair to come out post-patch but not pre-patch? I'm just a bit confused xD haha.

And I honestly don't see much of a reason to do it but...oh well XP sakurai's made weird decisions haha.

 

[Eclipse_]

Hopefully we eventually get fixed hitboxes / connecting usmash ;-;

until then, rip samus

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Umbra Clocktower has a very slippery under side. ZSS can slide a boost kick from almost a third of the way under the stage straight to the edge on the right side. Left works too, just not as extreme.

Speaking of ZSS, her weight change is expressed funny in the patch notes compilation thread. Just a heads up.

 

[Vipermoon]

Zelda is more floaty but that would mean she would die before sheik.

Also if aerial db 1 didn't get buffed in endlag, how am I getting bair to come out post-patch but not pre-patch? I'm just a bit confused xD haha.

And I honestly don't see much of a reason to do it but...oh well XP sakurai's made weird decisions haha.

All characters have a knockback modifier depending on their gravity (fall speed acceleration). Higher your gravity = the more knockback (and hitstun since hitstun comes from knockback). This is why Fox dies very early off the top (and is very easy to combo) in Brawl and Smash 4 but has extreme resistance to it in Melee. Melee didn't have it.

IDK, I'm really tired tbh. But I know it didn't change. Regardless, we'll know when we get game data.

 

[jmjb]

They have different gravities and max fall speeds. That isn't reliable. Try using the scale on the right side of the Pikmin stage.

that's a really clever idea, yeah I verified it this way too. from a dead stand still zelda slowly goes down slower than shiek, so they no longer have the same weight

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Ike buffs, bad mu changes for him. Never thought I'd see the day.

How so? Wouldn't that make his match ups a tiny bit better?

 

[Minwu]

falco and rosalina are completely missing from the character table in the official changelog thread right now. also zss' weight change has a big typo "81 0> 8"

 

[Bowserboy3]

Vipermoon mentioned on the 1.1.4 patch notes thread that he thought a couple of Marth's moves had ever so slightly increased range. Could be to do with the tipper hitbox being increased... who knows.

Regardless, I am also pretty sure that at the least, Dtilt does have a bigger tipper hitbox = more range. It seems like the hitbox is disjointed from the sword now, so to speak.

Vipermoon , I'm egar to test out/confirm/debunk any of the other range changes to Marth. Anything else found by other Marth players I could also test? I'll be able to test in about 30 mins from now so I'll come back with any range changes.

(Just for confirmation, I have one 1.1.3 3DS and one 1.1.4 3DS to test with).

Finally, apparently "Marth's Jab, Ftilt, Utilt, Dsmash durations are 25, 33, 33, and 54. Down from 28, 36, 36, and 64". I'm assuming that these changes apply to Lucina too.

 

[FlynnCL]

Nice. So Jab 1 matches Melee, beats Brawl by 2. Utilt beats Brawl by 6, loses to Melee by 2. Ftilt beats Brawl and Melee by 2. Dtilt loses to Brawl and Melee by 2 and 4. Dsmash beats Brawl and Melee by 10 and 7.

Last one, Dancing Blade 1? I'm almost certain it's unchanged.

Dancing Blade 1: total frames 42 (?) > 41.

Such a minor change. This affects Roy's Dancing Blade 1 too.

The side variants of Marth's Dancing Blade 2, 3 and 4 are unchanged however. Odd.

 

[Das Koopa]

So, how significant are Marth's buffs to him as a character? Does this just improve already favorable matchups, or are we talking a character than can maybe break Borderline/Low Mid, contending with characters like WFT, Robin, Mewtwo, etc?

The frame data changes look pretty significant overall but I'm not a Marth expert.

 

[Conn1496]

The patch notes say Bowser Jr's Side-B and Fair do more damage, though i haven't seen anyone post it.

F-air's weak hits got buffed, the earliest hitbox didn't. I'll back that up.

As for Side-B... Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. I'm actually kinda pissed someone misreported this one because it would have been a huge, scary change for Jr.'s game IMO. The spinout does do more (Which is cool as a more viable kill option actually.), but the actual dash isn't buffed at all. I think someone just took the high damage value instead of the low one and assumed it got buffed. It can actually do anywhere from 4% to 7% and I think they just took the top speed damage and rolled with it even though all other sources use low speed damage as the standard.

F-air comboing into it's own landbox at early %s feels more reliable though, but I dunno if that's placebo or not - likely is, but the move has obviously had changes, so it's worth looking into anyway IMO.

 

[Sammi Husky]

Anyone with access to the files should confirm that Roy's specialS1 (CRC 0xd720f989) has had an asynchronous timer added to the start, pushing a frame speed multiplier back by 2 frames. This should increase the startup speed by a few frames, since the multiplier was being applied on frame 1 and was set to increase frame length by x2 until frame 14. Now it only applies x2 on frame 2

This is the new script.

Spoiler

Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=2)
        Frame_Speed_Multiplier(Speed=2)
        Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=3)
        Defensive_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x16, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0)
        Defensive_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x3EA, Unknown=0x3F800000, Unknown=0, Unknown=2)
        Defensive_Hitbox(Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x3EA, Unknown=0x3F800000, Unknown=0, Unknown=6.5)
        unk_AC811479(Unknown=0x14, Unknown=0xFFFFFFFF)
        Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=4)
        Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x16, Unknown=3, Unknown=0x32, Unknown=0x32, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x28, Unknown=3.5, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0, Unknown=1.2, Unknown=0.8, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0xA, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
        Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3EA, Unknown=2, Unknown=0x5B, Unknown=0x4B, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1E, Unknown=3.5, Unknown=1, Unknown=0, Unknown=2, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0.8, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0xA, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
        Special_Hitbox(Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3EA, Unknown=2, Unknown=0x6E, Unknown=0x4B, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1E, Unknown=3, Unknown=1, Unknown=0, Unknown=6.5, Unknown=0x2, Unknown=0, Unknown=1, Unknown=0.8, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0xA, Unknown=0x3F, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0xF, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x1, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x3, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0, Unknown=0x0)
        Frame_Speed_Multiplier(Speed=1)
        Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=5)
        Set_bit(Unknown=0x2100000E)
        Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=7)
        Set_bit(Unknown=0x21000011)
        Remove_All_Hitboxes()
        Asynchronous_Timer(Frames=27)
        Clear_bit(Unknown=0x2100000E)
        Script_End()

 

[Bowserboy3]

Possible hitbox data changes
this may include partial invincibility or super armor, start up frames and hitbox durations, damage, hitbox sizes, knock back or otherwise

Captain Falcon, Falco, Ike, Bowser, Bowser Jr, Little Mac, Charizard, Lucina, Marth, Dark Pit, Roy, Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Zelda

Have any changes to Zelda been found yet? I'd be happy to test any changes/placebos etc. I'm pretty sure that somebody somehwere said her Up Air had a bigger hitbox... any other things Zelda players have found that need testing?

 

[jahkzheng]

Have any changes to Zelda been found yet? I'd be happy to test any changes/placebos etc. I'm pretty sure that somebody somehwere said her Up Air had a bigger hitbox... any other things Zelda players have found that need testing?

Bouncing between here and the Zelda board's patch thread, lurking... looks like nothing significant has been found on either side. Looks like someone here has confirmed that Zelda is now a different weight than Sheik? The Zelda thread doesn't know this yet apparently. They seem fairly confident that uair is the same though.

I don't know what I'd test so I'm just waiting for the guys with the data ripped to provide something more than speculation, since it appears that's all there is left to test. I'd think if something really noticeable was changed it would've been noticed by the Zelda thread.

 

[ARGHETH]

Looks like someone here has confirmed that Zelda is now a different weight than Sheik? The Zelda thread doesn't know this yet apparently. They seem fairly confident that uair is the same though.

I'm fairly certain that's because Sheik changed, not Zelda.

 

[jahkzheng]

I'm fairly certain that's because Sheik changed, not Zelda.

Yeah, I knew this... though I can see how that wasn't clear. I saw the notes mentioning that Sheik got "one weight unit" lighter. Just wasn't sure if Zelda got the same weight reduction. Looks like she didn't though based on posts here so far. Saying Zelda's weight is now different from Sheik's at least means Zelda didn't get her weight reduced too. Not a change to her but rather confirmation that something is the same yet relatively different now.

 

[itsmeMOB]

Marth and Lucina's range feel larger, I don't know if it's a placebo effect or the buffs on their aerials, but can anyone figure that out for me?

 

[ARGHETH]

Marth and Lucina's range feel larger, I don't know if it's a placebo effect or the buffs on their aerials, but can anyone figure that out for me?

Vipermoon said that he thinks that a couple of Marth's moves have more range via increased tipper hitboxes.

Ftilt has more range (it now out-ranges Fsmash)
Dtilt has more range
Dsmash has more range
Nair has more range
Fair has more range
Shield Breaker has more range

 

[Conn1496]

Vipermoon said that he thinks that a couple of Marth's moves have more range via increased tipper hitboxes.

I did a little bit of Marth-ing and the tipper hitboxes feel larger to me (Both closer and further away.), too. I don't think I'm the only one who'll think this either, TBH, but solid proof would be nice if we can get it.

 

[JesucristoCROW]

I checked in Training Mode and there are such changes
-FSmash Up Angled Damage 19 -> 20, not 21 as the Patch Notes say
-FSmash Down Angled 22 -> 24 (Seems to Break Shields easily than before) Even compared when it used to do 31% Fully charged
-Up Smash Sour Spot 15 -> 16

 

[merayjr95]

I can confirm that all of Zelda's %'s are the same as previous patch. knockback, ending lag, and landing lag all seem the same too, so her change might have only been to her weight. my hopes for reduced langing lag on her lightning kicks is shattered ;~;

 

[Lord Renning]

I feel like there are more invulnerability frames or a faster start up to them on Nayru's love. But I can't test it.