Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Das Koopa]

People saying Bowser's upthrow combo dead?

wtf dev team?

EDit: Sorry for the potential misinformation -this is apparently incorrect. Disregard

 

[C4-]

Interesting how "no changes" was put in the wario section when I'm pretty sure warios grounded state glitch was removed , probably something not noticeable through raw data tho.

 

[Darklink401]

A pointer here: you can true combo jab 1 into up tilt tipper at kill percents on faster fallers like sheik. Omega umbra, kills around 110 or so

Not just fastfallers. Works on floaties such as Wii Fit Trainer as well, tho for more floaty characters it depends on their hurtbox.

Jab 1 to uptilt was a combo before the patch tho.

 

[Masonomace]

I wonder if all of those Shulk listed changes mean they patched off MALLC

Monado art techniques are still in. This includes MALLC, MABD, & other techs as well.

EDIT: Oh 'd.

 

[Darklink401]

People saying Bowser's upthrow combo dead?

wtf dev team?

It's not.

 

[Iblistech]

It's not.

Which means it's still there.

 

[HeavyLobster]

3 patches and nothing for DH. I guess he has something hidden that we have to find that will shoot him through the tiers.

Blame the Japanese. They're the only people on earth who think Ike needs buffs and Duck Hunt doesn't.

 

[Mario766]

Ike buffs, bad mu changes for him. Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm probably and the rest of the staff probably will end up repeating this... Please follow the rules stated in the OP.

Welcome to the 'official' discussion thread for the 1.1.4 patch, which has just started to hit WiiUs shortly before this.

We will hand out large infractions and/or temporary bans to those who stifle this process of patch note exploration
Some examples include
1. Posting false changes, good intentions or not.
2. Asking if anything has changed when the patch notes are there for you to read.
3. Immature behaviour and complaining over the patch changes.

When checking changes some good rules of thumb are:
1. 3DS and WiiU stages have different blast zones, even those shared (Battlefield/Final Destination/etc); comparisons between the two for knockback is not accurate
2. Percent values taken from proper matches (non-training mode) have scaling adjustments based on it's current freshness; a 1% difference seen in a match may not be a real patch change and should be double checked before being posted.
~~~~~~~~~

The official patch notes can be found here:http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/
Only trusted users can post there, and we will move confirmed posts into it from this thread as they come as well!

TL;DR? If you don't have anything relevant to say here, you're whining, or asking questions easily answered through the search bar or reading through this thread and the patch notes, then get out, scream at a wall, take it to a thread suited for those, or take it to a PM.

If you are not sure about changes because you cannot provide evidence for whatever reason e.g. lack of another system with a older patch or lack of a capture device and you feel like they should be mentioned or looked into, please mention your methodology or any data you've tried to fact check or compare with. Yes, we're all aware of sites like KuroganeHammer and sixriver's frame data compilation, but still.

Also, feels are not allowed in this thread at all. We are stone cold, frame data hungry monsters not happy tea time partygoers.

 

[Theosmeo]

https://youtu.be/Tyl4kQOB7MY?t=9

I know it's likely Ganon got no buffs, but this tells me the scrape on the Uspecial got a knockback buff, I replicated the situation(rage stage %s ect) on 1.1.3 and it did not kill until 175%

Thanks to @Xinc for the video

 

[Das Koopa]

It's not.

oh thank god

I was gonna be like "Why would you drop him to bottom tier again?"

 

[Nobie]

So I made some more discoveries about Marth and Lucina: http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/#post-20832451

Basically, Marth's tipper fair now kills about 20% damage earlier (!!), while Lucina's kills about 33% damage earlier (!!!). In fact all of his aerials kill earlier thanks to the damage buffs, but the fair changes are another beast entirely.

While people will always complain that Marth can't wall like he used to with constant double fairs, I think we're beginning to see how the developers are trying to patch up Marth's weaknesses without resorting to switching him back to the moving impenetrable wall.

One of Marth's problems is that he's good at killing at mid percents thanks to tipper f-smash, and good at killing at really high percents thanks to up throw, but there's a huge middle gap where f-smash and up smash become too risky and up throw doesn't work properly.

Now you have fair to help fill the gap between F-smash/U-Smash and Up throw. It doesn't fill the gap perfectly, but you now have to worry about a pretty quick, large disjoint aerial ending your stock in the low 100s.

 

[Mario766]

oh thank god

I was gonna be like "Why would you drop him to bottom tier again?"

Kb increase would mean it kills earlier but you can't kill as late, moving the kill percents down.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Bowser's combo throw window has been tightened (90-98 or something) but it works at lower %s. You just have to jump higher. Interesting I guess.

 

[Blumiere]

I would highly recommend examining Duck Hunt's down smash. The move is notorious for being techable but this is not possible with the path it seems to be sending people in now.

 

[Nobie]

"Oh no Bowser's combo KO throw doesn't work above 100% anymore, how will he kill with a throw now."
(the answer is Side B)

 

[Meshima]

Some Character's weight has been changed.

• Sheik 85->84
• ZSS 81->80
• Rosalina 78->77

And confirmed that

• Beyo's weight is 84(same as Sheik).
• Corrin's weight is 98(same as Mario).

 

[LancerStaff]

@Lavani

Friend left so I can't take a closer look... Seemed like it was consistent enough. Maybe they moved one of the hitboxes on top of the size increase?

Well, back to the Wavebirds again.

 

[DunnoBro]

I would highly recommend examining Duck Hunt's down smash. The move is notorious for being techable but this is not possible with the path it seems to be sending people in now.

It's generally rage and awkward DI that allow that, not really gonna happen in training mode.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nope, double checked just for ya. For the best if you drop a tag in the social if you think you see something else... But I'm pretty sure that's it.

That kinda sucks, but reasonable.

Confirming all of this.


There's only been one hitbox on both rapid jab enders up to this point, and the patch that increased the size of Pit's increased it slightly forward and noticeably toward him+vertically. Dark Pit's still lacks the forward range increase, it'd be really odd to me if they'd update it and still have it be different from Pit's.

I can't test SDI on something like that myself, but I'm really skeptical of this change.

So Dark Pit still only has the better arm compared to Pit having a somewhat better jab, arrows, and ftilt?

 

[Faltrazz]

The Falco down throw glitch on falcon at the edge of stages with walls is gone.

 

[Blumiere]

It's generally rage and awkward DI that allow that, not really gonna happen in training mode.

Right, but now it's raising the opponent slightly with each reticle rather than just going side to side. I can't be imagining this.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Some Character's weight has been changed.

• Sheik 85->84
• ZSS 81->80
• Rosalina 78->77

And confirmed that

• Beyo's weight is 84(same as Sheik).
• Corrin's weight is 98(same as Mario).

This doesn't seem that significant but would somebody be able to argue otherwise? I usually don't regard character weight in this much detail. I just think of things in the terms of heavy weight, light weight, etc. Guess this means they're slightly easier to launch?

 

[FlynnCL]

Toon Link back-aerial.

EDIT: Ah, good to see it's already been confirmed!

 

[KillerJawz]

This doesn't seem that significant but would somebody be able to argue otherwise? I usually don't regard character weight in this much detail. I just think of things in the terms of heavy weight, light weight, etc. Guess this means they're slightly easier to launch?

for reference. sheik now dies from mewtwo's uthrow at 120 with no DI as opposed to 121 prepatch... lol.

 

[Fatmanonice]

for reference. sheik now dies from mewtwo's uthrow at 120 with no DI as opposed to 121 prepatch... lol.

A real fart in a whirlwind kind of nerf, eh? Makes me curious if anything else has changed about them.

 

[Meshima]

Also Sonic's weight has decreased 94 from 95.

 

[KillerJawz]

A real fart in a whirlwind kind of nerf, eh? Makes me curious if anything else has changed about them.

yeah. zss also dies 1% earlier as well, but rosalina and sonic do not die any earlier than before.

 

[UberMadman]

Bayonetta has a triple jump glitch. If you jump, then double jump and IMMEDIATELY cancels it with Witch Twist, she can double jump again (and Witch Twist again too obviously.) Nairo discovered it on stream.

 

[BJN39]

Considering Zelda/Sheik had shared the same weight pre-1.1.4, was Zelda's weight altered to match sheik's new weight? Or maybe instead increased?

 

[Chiroz]

yeah. zss also dies 1% earlier as well, but rosalina and sonic do not die any earlier than before.

Rosa died 1% earlier from U-Throw for me too. She also died 2% earlier from U-Smash. Didn't test Sonic.

 

[FlynnCL]

I'd like a double check on these numbers, unless they've already been confirmed.

Marth
Up tilt duration 36 > 33 frames (37 > 34 if you go by FAF)
Forward tilt duration 36 > 33 frames
Down smash duration 64 > 54 frames

 

[Vipermoon]

I'd like a double check on these numbers, unless they've already been confirmed.

Marth
Up tilt duration 36 > 33 frames (37 > 34 if you go by FAF)
Forward tilt duration 36 > 33 frames
Down smash duration 64 > 54 frames

I knew Dsmash was 52-54 and I felt Utilt and Ftilt were faster but wanted to wait for data on those. While we're discussing this, someone test the Jabs to make sure. Dtilt unfortunately didn't change as far as I can tell.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Very curious about Bowser Jr because he supposedly got changes in multiple categories but the Bowser Jr board is dead as usual so nothing has been said yet. I think I noticed some things but I really don't feel like making a fool of myself in case it was all a placebo.

 

[McDareth]

The Falco down throw glitch on falcon at the edge of stages with walls is gone.

I can confirm that it not longer works on Falcon on any stage. It also no longer works on Samus, ZSS, Ganondorf, and Link on Battlefield and Smashville type ledges -.-"

 

[MOI-ARI]

I knew Dsmash was 52-54 and I felt Utilt and Ftilt were faster but wanted to wait for data on those. While we're discussing this, someone test the Jabs to make sure. Dtilt unfortunately didn't change as far as I can tell.

heyyy i JUST tested jab. Lucina (and marth?) can act earlier out of jab 1. Like i can true combo jab>DB1, or Jab> DolphinSlash easier (on Mario after about 65%) and it shows on the counter.

~ignored~
(￣▽￣)

 

[UberMadman]

Very curious about Bowser Jr because he supposedly got changes in multiple categories but the Bowser Jr board is dead as usual so nothing has been said yet. I think I noticed some things but I really don't feel like making a fool of myself in case it was all a placebo.

When I heard Jr. got changes I went and checked a bunch of stuff myself but I've noticed *nothing* noticeable yet. Nair still does 6 sweetspotted, cannon still has ridiculous startup and end lag, jab 2 stil has 40 frames of endlag, grab is still awful...

...I've depressed myself, I need a moment...

 

[FlynnCL]

I knew Dsmash was 52-54 and I felt Utilt and Ftilt were faster but wanted to wait for data on those. While we're discussing this, someone test the Jabs to make sure. Dtilt unfortunately didn't change as far as I can tell.

Jab 1 total duration has changed from 28 > 25.

Jab 2 (28 frames?) and down tilt (23 frames?) are the same.

 

[Mario766]

When I heard Jr. got changes I went and checked a bunch of stuff myself but I've noticed *nothing* noticeable yet. Nair still does 6 sweetspotted, cannon still has ridiculous startup and end lag, jab 2 stil has 40 frames of endlag, grab is still awful...

...I've depressed myself, I need a moment...

The changes got put in the patch notes.

 

[Faltrazz]

Bayonetta has a triple jump glitch. If you jump, then double jump and IMMEDIATELY cancels it with Witch Twist, she can double jump again (and Witch Twist again too obviously.) Nairo discovered it on stream.

I'd think this was intentional so people who use tap jump aren't screwed over.