Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Chiroz]

I DO think Charizard's D-Throw was changed. I don't think it was scaling though. It more feels like a tighter angle. In the new patch, D-Throw -> Fly is a true combo up until the last hit stops reaching on sheik (according to training mode). I'm not sure if this wasn't already the case in the last patch though. Can anyone confirm?

It was a true combo with no DI, got a really good Chari friend who could true combo it when people DIed wrong.

 

[Meccs]

So I'm not sure how dataminers could check this, but chaining all of Lucas' Dair hits was kind of a pain unless you were positioned exactly right... I played a bunch of matches today and it honestly feels like they fixed the linking for hits 1-2-3. It very well could be placebo, however I was terrible at using Dair until this patch, and all of a sudden it's nice and easy, so idk.

 

[Shadow_13]

Of course top 10 should be our comparison factor because that's what you see in tourney. Sheik very clearly does need nerfs. ZSS and Rosa could use them but are nowhere near as far above the rest and are somewhat counterpickable even if your character loses to them. Sheik loses to nobody.

Then you haven't really explored them. I can prove why those characters are good and quite a few others.

Now, we are off topic and should be back to patch notes discussion. I am going to only be replying to those in the discussion rather than this argument. I am sorry if I have offended you, but I do feel I am not contributing to this thread by arguing.

 

[Zethoro]

It's pretty fair to point to Flying Slam as a kill option IMO - and actually, because U-throw knocks back further, we kill some characters earlier. The patch isn't all bad, it just tightened our kill %s somewhat fierce, so don't fret too much about it TBH.

I know, it's just irritating to see people treat Flying Slam like it's this amazing kill throw. It's certainly not a substitute for Bowser's actual kill confirm/kill throws, though it can be useful at times.
I'm fine with the patch, really. Hopefully it means we'll stop getting called braindead 24/7 and people will realize "hey, you know, Bowser isn't the reincarnation of pre-patch Luigi."

 

[ToastPerson]

Jeez, I can definitely confirm the duck hunt dthrow buff

Dthrow upair kills ZSS at 115%, confirmed. Welp, there goes his problem killing.

Doesn't work with DI though and on heavier characters (since d-throw is weight dependant)

 

[TDOB]

I believe it IS charizard's angle. Down Throw -> Fly is now registering as a True Combo up through and including Kill Percent on Sheik, at least in Training Mode. I dont think it did that before, but I cant confirm.

That's kinda helpful. Now I just have to see if he did or didn't get that rumored airspeed buff.

 

[S_B]

Who's the fourth? Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina...

Sanic.

I know, it's just irritating to see people treat Flying Slam like it's this amazing kill throw. It's certainly not a substitute for Bowser's actual kill confirm/kill throws, though it can be useful at times.
I'm fine with the patch, really. Hopefully it means we'll stop getting called braindead 24/7 and people will realize "hey, you know, Bowser isn't the reincarnation of pre-patch Luigi."

Prepatch Luigi was as bad as he was because of his fireball. When he threw one in neutral, anything you did aside from jumping over it could lead to him grabbing you. If you shielded, he grabbed you. You attacked it, it clanked and he grabbed you. Got hit by it, he still grabbed you.

Bowser has no means of safely opening his opponent for a grab like Luigi and Diddy did. Even his jab > grab is avoidable and he has to be in close range to land it.

 

[ligersandtigons]

did they change falco 's run animation at all? Like did they speed it up or anything?

It definitely doesn't feel familiar and many people did think they buffed his run speed despite it being the same

 

[Pinuzzo]

Bowser has no means of safely opening his opponent for a grab like Luigi and Diddy did. Even his jab > grab is avoidable and he has to be in close range to land it.

He almost makes up for it by having an enormous grab range, however. When I ranked everyone's grab range a while back, I put him at 11th- below Villager but above Lucina/Marth.

 

[Radical Larry]

did they change falco 's run animation at all? Like did they speed it up or anything?

It definitely doesn't feel familiar and many people did think they buffed his run speed despite it being the same

It's been that way, I believe. I'll test when I get home.

 

[Meshima]

Oh hey, can you check Link's dashing speed?

I can't figure out exact number, but certainly he is slower than Peach(1.4175).
Probably his running speed hasn't changed.

And I forgot to mention that:

• Jr's F-smash FAF 60F->56F
• Lucas D-air landing lag 24 -> 21 (Sixriver have confirmed in 1.1.3 days)

 

[THATFAT1]

alright guys, I have my wii u on 1.1.4 and my buddies wii u on 1.1.3, I have a wavebird and 2 receivers, what do you want me to test?

Find anything? plssss enlighten us! lol

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I will happily accept landing lag buffs on Roy's aerials. I will also happily accept the buffs Toon Link's FSmash and BAir.

 

[Stehpen]

There is a serious amount of off topic discussion regarding viability and current kill options and general whining. This thread isn't for any of that. Take it to literally anywhere else

 

[JohnKnight416]

First of all, I've tested out Link's speed and it seems to almost perfectly match Peach's instead of being truly slower. His speed might be around 1.40 to 1.41 at least, but not too close to Peach because it's almost.

And two, Link has a lot of reliable combos, sleeper. Bomb setups, D-Throw setups, U-Tilt setups, D-Tilt setups all into various attacks and aerials. Jab can go into Spin Attack, Boomerang into N-Air/F-Air, Bombs into F-Air, N-Air into a roll then F-Tilt/F-Smash or a Dash Attack, U-Air into U-Air, those three are just examples for Link's combo ability and are decent examples of his long library of combos.



You could always do that in the first place.

Link may not struggle so much in his running speed, but he does struggle with his frame data and air mobility. Mainly it's his frame data that's preventing him from getting any reliable combo strings going with his Master Sword.

For example, Link's Dthrow setups aren't too reliable from Low to Mid Percents sometimes, his Uptilt strings out of Dthrow cannot follow up with each other rapidly and fast enough to get a good string going before the opponent is able to react out of Hitstun since his Uptilt has too much Endlag. Like I find my opponent jumping his/her way out of the Uptilt combo string and the best that I can do is at least 1 hit with the Uptilt before my opponent escapes my clutches before I even get a chance to follow up with an Uptilt or Upsmash in time. It happens to me no matter which character I'm up against who's controlled by a good player. Like even a Gannondorf managed to easily escape Link's Uptilt combo string by just jumping his way out of it! This even makes this combo setup from Link less efficient than when it's performed by Mario, who can pull off way more Uptilt strings faster than Link can and make them much harder for to escape.

As for his aerial options, Link doesn't jump high or fast enough to get his aerial to connect easily. Like I'm unable to get an Upair after a Dthrow at most percents b/c the Dthrow has too much Endlag for Link to recover from to use his Upair in time, which has too much of a Initial Start Up frames to catch the opponent in time when they're in Hitstun. And Link's Dthrow also launches his opponent too high for him sometimes, making unable to reach his opponents with an Upair due to the lack of height that he has even on his full jumps.

The fact that a lot of his attacks have too much Endlag is the result as to why he's unable to start decent combo string going after he gets at least one hit on his opponent.

 

[S_B]

He almost makes up for it by having an enormous grab range, however. When I ranked everyone's grab range a while back, I put him at 11th- below Villager but above Lucina/Marth.

His grab range his good, especially his pivot grab, but missing a grab gets him punished heavily (he stands there looking at his hand for a full minute, I swear).

But he still needs to earn those grabs honestly and with sizable risk involved.

 

[Lavani]

Maybe she has more vulnerability frame

It's most likely a vulnerable frame or two on Sheiks up b, iirc her vulnerability prepatch was ~18 frames.

1. Again, not the file that would be in.
2. Also something I checked immediately after patching, that's unchanged.

That said, apparently my error when checking knockback before was using too light a target. A partial dump of the patch indicates Vanish's KBG was reduced 104→102, and Dedede's kill percent from center of 3DS FD increased 160%→164%.

edit: forgot mastercore's mislabeled and i can't into hex

 

[TDOB]

There is a serious amount of off topic discussion regarding viability and current kill options and general whining. This thread isn't for any of that. Take it to literally anywhere else

I think both cutting-edge patch discussion and hypothetical change (ex: "what if" situations if something wasn't placebo) character discussion fall under both "patch discussion" and "patch exploration". Whining is frowned upon, but the rest doesn't go against the OP.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I DO think Charizard's D-Throw was changed. I don't think it was scaling though. It more feels like a tighter angle. In the new patch, D-Throw -> Fly is a true combo up until the last hit stops reaching on sheik (according to training mode). I'm not sure if this wasn't already the case in the last patch though. Can anyone confirm?

It might be.

I'm mostly trying to rule out what it isn't, aka I'm 100% sure no damage changes happened.

So I am stuck in areas I'm not sure if it changed or not, don't have my WiiU updated and won't be til tonight, mostly I am digging around with what others have been posting and showing off.

It might be Dthrow but again, I really don't have full confirmation it's just not something he couldn't already do before.

Wish we had patch notes from Nintendo.

 

[TailLover]

It might be.

I'm mostly trying to rule out what it isn't, aka I'm 100% sure no damage changes happened.

So I am stuck in areas I'm not sure if it changed or not, don't have my WiiU updated and won't be til tonight, mostly I am digging around with what others have been posting and showing off.

It might be Dthrow but again, I really don't have full confirmation it's just not something he couldn't already do before.

Wish we had patch notes from Nintendo.

but if we had notes that would be too easy!

 

[LancerStaff]

It might be.

I'm mostly trying to rule out what it isn't, aka I'm 100% sure no damage changes happened.

So I am stuck in areas I'm not sure if it changed or not, don't have my WiiU updated and won't be til tonight, mostly I am digging around with what others have been posting and showing off.

It might be Dthrow but again, I really don't have full confirmation it's just not something he couldn't already do before.

Wish we had patch notes from Nintendo.

I can look at Zard's Dthrow in 15-20 minutes. What do you think is different, exactly?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I can look at Zard's Dthrow in 15-20 minutes. What do you think is different, exactly?

The angle changed so it has either follow-ups.

That or his Airspeed went up.

These are two things I have heard might have changed with him, the first one I find to be more believable since I've heard it a lot more but until I get someone who 100%s it I'm not really saying it is for sure until then.

 

[LancerStaff]

The angle changed so it has either follow-ups.

That or his Airspeed went up.

These are two things I have heard might have changed with him, the first one I find to be more believable since I've heard it a lot more but until I get someone who 100%s it I'm not really saying it is for sure until then.

Any idea what Dthrow kills at? 3DS or Wii U, either would help.

 

[Meshima]

• Jr's F-smash FAF 60->56
• Jr's U-smash FAF 63->57
• Jr's D-smash FAF 68->60

Could someone confirm this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Any idea what Dthrow kills at? 3DS or Wii U, either would help.

It's not killing, rather it might have new follow ups/combos because they changed the angle.

 

[SM Mystic]

So I'm not sure how dataminers could check this, but chaining all of Lucas' Dair hits was kind of a pain unless you were positioned exactly right... I played a bunch of matches today and it honestly feels like they fixed the linking for hits 1-2-3. It very well could be placebo, however I was terrible at using Dair until this patch, and all of a sudden it's nice and easy, so idk.

Can confirm the hits on the first, second, and third do connect better, granted you don't fast fall.

 

[Lavani]

dthrow angle is 70°

According to KuroganeHammer that's what it was previously, too.

 

[SM Mystic]

1. Again, not the file that would be in.
2. Also something I checked immediately after patching, that's unchanged.

That said, apparently my error when checking knockback before was using too light a target. A partial dump of the patch indicates Vanish's KBG was reduced 104→102, and Dedede's kill percent from center of 3DS FD increased 160%→164%.

edit: forgot mastercore's mislabeled and i can't into hex

Can you check the change on Zelda and see what it is?

 

[Clayton Balderas]

Anything on Falcon?

 

[jespoke]

Any idea what Dthrow kills at? 3DS or Wii U, either would help.

Looking into knockback might also be a good idea, less KBG would make followups connect easier/longer so it could be that

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

dthrow angle is 70°

According to KuroganeHammer that's what it was previously, too.

Hmm, it's not that then.

Might be base or knock back growth, though I am doubtful on that.

Otherwise I'm pretty stumped on what changed with him.

Might be a weight change like with the other characters.

 

[TheRealSkid]

rip
Anyway, (I know this may be negligible) but mewtwo's visuals for disable and confusion might be changed. Idk if this is just me but they look kinda different in color.
As for the fsmash and landing lag on the up b may be faster, but I'm not sure and my wii has already been updated. Can someone please test this?

 

[Chiroz]

Hmm, it's not that then.

Might be base or knock back growth, though I am doubtful on that.

Otherwise I'm pretty stumped on what changed with him.

Might be a weight change like with the other characters.

He's still lighter than Dedede. Also he's not faster than Dark/Pit in the air. So if he did get a weight or speed buff it didn't even bump him 1 character upwards.

 

[Fatmanonice]

• Jr's F-smash FAF 60->56
• Jr's U-smash FAF 63->57
• Jr's D-smash FAF 68->60

Could someone confirm this?

So maybe this wasn't my imagination... When I tried out Iggy last night, all of them felt faster with Usmash being considerably faster. I also felt like the kart spinout had less ending lag too. I don't have the proper equipment to verify the frame count though so this could just boil down to wishful thinking at worst.

 

[Masonomace]

• Jr's F-smash FAF 60->56
• Jr's U-smash FAF 63->57
• Jr's D-smash FAF 68->60

Could someone confirm this?

I'm doing the frame skip method in Training Mode & all of the smash attack's FAF match up for me.

EDIT: I should of said that I get 56, 57, & 60 for post-patch currently.

 

[FlynnCL]

• Jr's F-smash FAF 60->56
• Jr's U-smash FAF 63->57
• Jr's D-smash FAF 68->60

Could someone confirm this?

I'm getting the same too. 59>55 total frames for forward smash, 62>56 for up smash and 67>59 for down smash.

 

[jet56]

Anything on Falcon?

Can you check the change on Zelda and see what it is?

rip
Anyway, (I know this may be negligible) but mewtwo's visuals for disable and confusion might be changed. Idk if this is just me but they look kinda different in color.
As for the fsmash and landing lag on the up b may be faster, but I'm not sure and my wii has already been updated. Can someone please test this?

look, im not trying to be rude here.really im not,but comments like this are cluttering up the thread page. also side note, thank you for fixing the mac changes to their proper numbers. and i do have an updated wii u and a 3ds both with dreamland so i can test knockback and other changes.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's not killing, rather it might have new follow ups/combos because they changed the angle.

I wanted the kill % because that'd be a pretty clear indicator of an angle/KB/damage change. If I were you I'd get the kill % on every one of Zard's moves for comparison come patch time.

Definitely no angle change, fairly certain there's no FAF change (the whole thing's like 70 frames cut me some slack here), kills at 379 on both of my 3DS's on Omega Duck Hunt.

Air speed and acceleration looks the same too. Bounced off of the Boxing Ring's ropes, held forwards the entire jump, stopped when he landed and set the camera to fixed for comparison. Same number of pixels from the edge of the screen even.

 

[Luig]

I keep testing different moves with different angles on 1.1.3 sonic and 1.1.4 sonic, but there isn't seeming to be any difference....

 

[arbustopachon]

Zards d-throw used to kill mario at 386 in 3ds fd at the center stage. proof.

So they increased the knockback? I have no idea what is going on right now with this character :/