Meta "The Final Content" [1.1.4] Patch Discussion

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Has someone compared Falco old and new running animation or speed? I'm reading the speed is the same, but how about the animation? Something feels faster.

 

[jespoke]

I found myself checking more of the changes if they were indeed from this patch and found that Bowser Jr's Fair has 4 different hitboxes 11/9/8/5 in 1.1.3. The weakest 2 are confirmed buffed, the big one confirmed not, but the rare (not as rare as the 5% though) 9% hitbix hasnt been documented. Is it merged into the 8's that became 9's?

I also messed around with Side-B, and it is indeed just Kuroganehammer that only shows the weakest of its half dozen different hitboxes

 

[Rebel13]

Marth's upsmash seems different. In training mode it now registers for me as 1 hit 16% damage (sometimes it gives 2 hit combo, but still 16%), whereas before it was 2 hits, the foot hitbox that did 3% and the finisher which did 13%. I've also been using it more and got some KO's on for glory < 90%. Could just be placebo, but if @Pugwest noticed something similar it might have merit. Can someone else check?

 

[Sev3n]

Now this is going back to the topic, does anyone have any stats for Link's frame data? I want my answer about Jab 1 being faster or slower.

This was the first thing that I tested. Link's frame data is completely unchanged.
RIP the dream of a good jab.

 

[Radical Larry]

This was the first thing that I tested. Link's frame data is completely unchanged.
RIP the dream of a good jab.

His speed? Any upgrades to his running speed?

 

[FlynnCL]

Now this is going back to the topic, does anyone have any stats for Link's frame data? I want my answer about Jab 1 being faster or slower.

Link wasn't included in any of the hitbox or parameter differences, so there shouldn't be any changes to him at all.

His jab is the same. It still hits on frame 7 and lasts 27 total frames.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

If anyone has gotten this result also, i got it too.

Charizard's Upsmash has changed.

Usmash whiffs its second hit if facing AWAY. [[where pre-patch. The hit connected always ,facing away]] Only tested with MARIO in both 1.1,.3 and current.


-So Hit 1 of Usmash has lowered/altered KB for better linking into Hit 2?

No one has caught this yet but I will check.

 

[WinterWonter]

Can someone please confirm the Lucina frame data changes? Supposedly she got the same changes as Marth, which I can confirm for Jab1 as it is MUCH easier to get Jab>Up Tilt and I don't know if it was true before but I believe it is now at low percentages. However, I can't figure out if the frame data on down smash has changed, which is what I care about. I use it as a tech chase/roll option, so having it be faster would be a huge benefit.

 

[Mellos]

Falco looks like he has slightly more knockback on downsmash ? (mute the video because this was taken during school lol)

(patch 1.1.3)

(patch 1.1.4)

Looks good, but why are we ignoring this? D:
Try posting it over at the falco board, the "Falco patch history", maybe that helps

 

[Vipermoon]

alright guys, I have my wii u on 1.1.4 and my buddies wii u on 1.1.3, I have a wavebird and 2 receivers, what do you want me to test?

Three things please:

Compare what happens when Marth Ftilts and then immediately walks the other way.

Compare what happens when Marth does a backwards short hop and keeps walking after he lands. Basically, short hop while holding backwards and keep holding backwards after he lands so he turns around and walks.

Look at Marth's walking acceleration in general.

This stuff is obviously all related. Marth is looking to have the same weird walking boosts that Roy gets.

Thanks.

Did you guys every get the chance to look at this?

Is Needle Storm the only suspected revert in Kirby's copy abilities? I'm not very knowledgeable about Kirby's previous changes or if there's any other possible reverts.


Yeah. That change makes a lot more sense now that LordWilliam1234 has confirmed it's actually the start-up that was reduced by 1 frame.

Marth is getting a lot of love in this patch, and I can't wait to see the hitbox data arrive.

Well I missed that one somehow but I see it now.

 

[Lavani]

Sheik's Vanish is still only one hitbox. There isn't a sourspot.

Falco looks like he has slightly more knockback on downsmash ? (mute the video because this was taken during school lol)

(patch 1.1.3)

(patch 1.1.4)

Can confirm, KBG on all hits was increased 76→78.

Yeah he has more damage and range on Nair and Fair. No doubt Lucina received the same hitbox adjustments (I'd be very surprised if she didn't) it's just that the damage buffs she received are much greater than the ones Marth did.

She did, at least for fair. The hitbox on the upper half of the sword was moved further up.

Palutena's forward tilt was changed a little, the frame data seems identical to last patch but it links hits more consistently (tested on Pit)

In patch 1.1.3 it stop linking at about 80~90

In patch 1.1.4 it keeps linking hits until 145+

Also can someone please check if down tilt tilt has a different angle? (just set it to 150%)

And Zelda's side B hit box size and growth looks allot bigger

Ftilt and dtilt's angles, hitboxes, and knockback are all unchanged.

Din's Fire is also unchanged.

 

[SM Mystic]

Sheik's Vanish is still only one hitbox. There isn't a sourspot.


Can confirm, KBG on all hits was increased 76→78.


She did, at least for fair. The hitbox on the upper half of the sword was moved further up.


Ftilt and dtilt's angles, hitboxes, and knockback are all unchanged.

Din's Fire is also unchanged.

I got in touch with ShinyQuagsire. He said the Zelda and Dark Pit changes are either aesthetic or minor.

 

[Vipermoon]

Sheik's Vanish is still only one hitbox. There isn't a sourspot.


Can confirm, KBG on all hits was increased 76→78.


She did, at least for fair. The hitbox on the upper half of the sword was moved further up.


Ftilt and dtilt's angles, hitboxes, and knockback are all unchanged.

Din's Fire is also unchanged.

You mean further out? And of course Marth also? That hitbox would be the tipper.

Marth's upsmash seems different. In training mode it now registers for me as 1 hit 16% damage (sometimes it gives 2 hit combo, but still 16%), whereas before it was 2 hits, the foot hitbox that did 3% and the finisher which did 13%. I've also been using it more and got some KO's on for glory < 90%. Could just be placebo, but if @Pugwest noticed something similar it might have merit. Can someone else check?

That happens sometimes in training but it really is two hits.

 

[arbustopachon]

I know this is the 3rd time i've said this, so i apologize, but can someone do some frame counting or something to confirm the changes to roy's sidespecial. I'll be able to post full data dumps in a few hours, but here's Roy's ACMD scripts from both versions. He's got only a single line of code added.

[d720f989] is specials1

1.1.3
1.1.4

It starts up one frame faster

 

[Lavani]

You mean further out? And of course Marth also? That hitbox would be the tipper.

Further out, closer to the tip, whatever you wanna call it.

Marth's hitbox was changed identically.

 

[SM Mystic]

I know this is the 3rd time i've said this, so i apologize, but can someone do some frame counting or something to confirm the changes to roy's sidespecial. I'll be able to post full data dumps in a few hours, but here's Roy's ACMD scripts from both versions. He's got only a single line of code added.

[d720f989] is specials1

1.1.3
1.1.4

My previous math about the frames was off due to the fact that i forgot how the timers work in this game compared to brawl. It should be 1 frame faster.

When you get the chance, check Zelda's data if you would. There was a small change and no one knows what it is. All we know is that it's either aesthetic or a minor change.

 

[Pazzo.]

Something interesting to keep in mind for Marth, Lucina, Sheik, and anyone else who got damage/weight nerfs/buffs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/445l6l/psa_how_relevant_can_a_1_damage_buff_be/

 

[jespoke]

Can someone count the frames on Sheik's partial charge Needles in 1.1.4, just to make sure how the numbers line up?

 

[Vipermoon]

This sounds like major placebo because reporting something like this would be seem like wishful thinking. However, I never wished for this type of buff so take it from me lol. I know my character extremely well. A while ago, I did a range analysis on Marth using phantom hits (sparks) and the white dots surrounding Smashville. Here are my findings this time around:

I checked everything and I'm only posting the findings I am most confident in (the most obvious increases):

Ftilt has more range (it now out-ranges Fsmash)
Dtilt has more range
Dsmash has more range
Nair has more range
Fair has more range
Shield Breaker has more range

From my testing, I am fairly certain that all of this was accomplished by simply increasing the size of the tipper hitboxes. I can't wait to see exact numbers from game data though!

Some other things I found were these weird properties with walking after Ftilt and walking after landing but this stuff is still in the works.

^This is my post from the other thread. I'm here to debunk a couple of things.

Nair. The Smashville white dot numbers for Nair that I was referring to were apparently for Nair 1. Nair 2 has more range than Nair 1 so this is why when I got much bigger numbers; I though it was hitbox size increases. Nair range is the same guys.

Dsmash. In 1.1.3 and previous, Dsmash's sword trail slightly went through the opponent's foot before it hit. It isn't like that in this patch where Dsmash hits when the sword is very close to the foot but not quite there. Dsmash had an animation change because I'm otherwise getting the same range numbers on re-test.

I still stand by Fair, Dtilt, Ftilt, and SB.

Edit: oh and Lucina still matches Marth

 

[FreeGamer]

TFW Zelda is still worst in the game

 

[Dingo1011]

Hey would the weight nerfs to sheik, rosa, and zss affect grabs like Mario Dthrow (I believe it's this one) where the weight of the character determined how fast Mario could act out? I remember something about this weight thing from beefy smash dudes (3 amazing Mario combos video)

 

[Asdioh]

Is Needle Storm the only suspected revert in Kirby's copy abilities? I'm not very knowledgeable about Kirby's previous changes or if there's any other possible reverts.

I know that when Luigi's endlag was increased for Fireball, Kirby's escaped that nerfhammer, just like he did with Sheik Needles. That was also fixed in the same patch as the Needles though, and I just tested, he still has the same frame data as Luigi in this patch. I also tested Greninja, because I think it was the same case there, however, it is also the same as Greninja's in this patch. So that only leaves Sheik being different, to my knowledge.

On a less pleasant note, Kirby's Mach Tornado still does half as much damage as Meta Knight's please fix this.
That's two games in a row where Kirby gets a drastically inferior version of Meta Knight's power. In Brawl, it didn't have anywhere near as much priority as MK's notorious tornado did, and in 4, it does half the damage. Sakurai please.

I'm new to testing frames, but i'm definitely getting a difference between full charge and partial charge endlag on 1.1.3, 54 and 48 respectively i think (Measured in increments of 2 frames as that is the shortest i can consistently tap L so this is not reliable, just a pointer)

...are you talking about Kirby Needles or Sheik Needles in this? Need to specify.

 

[jespoke]

...are you talking about Kirby Needles or Sheik Needles in this? Need to specify.

Oh, oops, those are the Sheik ones. The Kirby ones are both ~6 frames faster. I can finally update tomorrow evening, so i will compare these results to 1.1.4 myself then.

Kuroganehammer listing partial charge FAF as the time from the charge is canceled to shield makes it unclear if the 54 frame time in code is from charge start to single needle throw (In which case it is unchanged) or if it is the time from charge cancel (Which would be a nerf)

 

[Asdioh]

Kuroganehammer listing partial charge FAF as the time from the charge is canceled to shield makes it unclear if the 54 frame time in code is from charge start to single needle throw (In which case it is unchanged) or if it is the time from charge cancel (Which would be a nerf)

You lost me here. I can confirm that charging and casting is exactly the same for both characters, it's just that Kirby's shield comes up sooner on both full charge and partial charge.

Oh, oops, those are the Sheik ones. The Kirby ones are both ~6 frames faster. I can finally update tomorrow evening, so i will compare these results to 1.1.4 myself then.

So... even in 1.1.3, Kirby had faster Needles? I never tested this in 1.1.3, because I assumed they wouldn't break something that they had already fixed. I know that in 1.11, or some older patch, they were definitely both the same endlag.

I'm not sure what's up here; I'm seeing 54 FAF for Sheik and 48 FAF for Kirby, for both partial and full charge. KH had 48 listed for Sheik's partial charge and 54 for full charge before, but I'm not sure how we're getting to 54/54 Sheik and 48/48 Kirby from that.

So if I'm getting this right...


Current Patch Needle FAF:
54 uncharged, 54 charged
48 uncharged, 48 charged


Previous Patch Needle FAF:
48 uncharged, 54 charged
42 uncharged, 48 charged???


Everything is confusion.

but... so does this mean Sheik's Needles WERE nerfed this patch? /going in circles
You would have think this would have been confirmed by now if they were changed. This should be easier to find than the random KBG decrease on Sheik's Vanish.

 

[FlynnCL]

This is mostly to show that there are frame differences for charging since there's a lot of confusion...

Kirby is a pain to frame count because he always looks the bloody same! Kirby's charged needles are 47 total frames and uncharged is 40. Sheik is a lot more obvious due to her wild postures. I get 53 for charged and 46 for uncharged which means she is unchanged.

 

[UberMadman]

This is mostly to show that there are frame differences for charging.

Oh, and Kirby is a pain to frame count because he always looks the bloody same! I hear that during frame 1 of shield you don't actually see the graphic appear, which means that Kirby's charged needles are 47 frames and uncharged could even be 40 unless I keep miscounting. I really need someone more capable to double check all this...

Sheik is a lot more obvious to count due to her wild postures. I get 53 for charged and 46 for uncharged.

So Kirby just has straight up better frame data on Needles then? That's kind of funny, actually. #NerfKirby

 

[brady_boy_26]

So Kirby just has straight up better frame data on Needles then? That's kind of funny, actually. #NerfKirby

THAT IS AMAZING #ilovekirby

 

[Sammi Husky]

Little mac has quite a bit of changes here and there. I'll post them as i decipher them.

 

[sadfaps]

Zelda downb goes off stage now

 

[Rebel13]

S sadfaps

It always did that.

 

[sadfaps]

S sadfaps

It always did that.

nvm my b

 

[Aninymouse]

For the uninitiated, those Mac KBG numbers are in hexidecimal.

edit: not anymore

 

[LancerStaff]

Brain's fried and don't feel like googling a hex calculator... How much of a reduction in growth is it? Just enough to offset the damage or is it enough to where they kill noticeably later?

 

[Sammi Husky]

Sorry, i can convert them to standard notation in a moment. They're all just to compensate for the damage, except in the case of upsmash and down smash which probably does decrease the kill percent if only just a tiny bit.

Scratch that last bit, it's just really to compensate for damage

 

[Aninymouse]

nvm he edited in the decimal conversions

 

[PeacefulKoala]

Anyone have frame count on Bowser's Utilt pre-patch?
Seems to start up, and end a couple frames earlier than I'm use to

 

[jespoke]

This is mostly to show that there are frame differences for charging since there's a lot of confusion...

Kirby is a pain to frame count because he always looks the bloody same! Kirby's charged needles are 47 total frames and uncharged is 40. Sheik is a lot more obvious due to her wild postures. I get 53 for charged and 46 for uncharged which means she is unchanged.

So it was really just a case of discrepancy between how it is coded and how we count it. Thanks for clearing it up

 

[MG_Music]

PSA: Apparently you can't footstool your teammate anymore in doubles with the most recent patch. And yes Team attack was turned on.
Can anyone else confirm this???

 

[Minwu]

if someone wanted to confirm lucina getting the same frame data changes as marth then would controlling both of them with the amiibo glitch and not suffering desync while spamming moves be sufficient proof?

 

[Bowserboy3]

I saw some people reporting about a Falco run speed buff. Unfortunately, I am getting this as false. I'm doing side by side comparisons with 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 vesions of the 3DS, and there is no change whatsoever.

However, I have tested the Up Smash buff, and that is completely true. I tested it using said versions of the 3DS game, using Mega Man as my crash test dummy, attacking him from his starting position in training on Omega Corneria.

1.1.3 - Started killing at 139/140% uncharged.

1.1.4 - Started killing at 128% uncharged.

Just more clarification on Falco's Up Smash here...

It was nigh impossible to be able to hit a crouching opponent in 1.1.3 on 3DS... so I cheated...

I used Mega Man, and made him get hit by a Poison Mushroom to shrink him down. Needless to say, 1.1.3 Up Smash would miss him. In 1.1.4, Poison Mushroom Mega Man WOULD get hit by Up Smash.

Also, I decided to see if it would hit missed techs too. On a missed tech Mega Man, in 1.1.3, Up Smash would miss, but in 1.1.4, it would hit.

Overall, a pretty sweet buff for Falco!

I have news of another Falco buff... albeit not as big as the above.

Another user reported that Falco's Dsmash received a buff, so I thought I would test it out myself. Again, using 1.1.3 3DS and 1.1.4 3DS, this time I used Mario in his starting position on Omega Battlefield...

On 1.1.3, Dsmash killed occasionally at 129%, and reliably at 130%.
On 1.1.4, Dsmash killed at 125%.