The Falco Matchup

[Infinitysmash]

I realize there is a matchup thread already, and I realize that this was covered in it already. If Affinity wants to add parts or all this to his thread then he's welcome to.

This matchup is actually a very complex one, so be ready to have your brain wracked by the end of the matchup when you play against a good Falco player.

(I'd also like to take this time to throw a shout-out to my favorite Falco player. Every time I play against Sethlon I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack after the match because he's so nerve wreckingly good at this game. Mad props to Sethlon, he is whom I am basing this information off of and he is whom I will use as the standard for a professional Falco player.)

I'm using the same layout as the one I posted in the matchup thread regarding Yoshi; each character's major strengths, the grey area where both excel, my opinion of the matchup ratio and my suggested strategy for the matchup.

For the best information I have to give regarding this matchup, start at the counterpicking section and work your way down from there.

Falco

Important character advantages - Metaknight

- Power. It's much easier for Metaknight to set up for a kill in this match than it is for Falco to kill Metaknight.

- Edge guarding. Getting back onto the stage is normally a nightmare for a Falco player against Metaknight and Metaknight play the edge game all day long.

- The Tornado is both your best friend and your enemy in this match. When used properly it's impossible for the Falco player to grab you from a Tornado, but when Metaknight is at higher percentages the Falco player can kill you with a laser into an up smash and the Tornado sets up perfectly for that. Use it aggressively to deny Falco free percent on you, then when you're at that percent anyway use it less often. Mach Tornado is also beautiful for edge guarding in the match as Falco's Phantasm gets caught by the tornado 90% of the time and makes it impossible for Falco to get his footing back when he's off the stage.

- Close range game. If you're able to approach Falco and get inside of his defenses he's going to have a hard time getting you off of him. Falco does not want you close to him; he wants you at about a mid range where he can laser for damage and set up for an up smash or up air to kill you.

Important Character Advantages - Falco

- Grab game. This is very, very important in this match. If Falco is able to get a grab on Metaknight and tech chase properly after 40%~ then he can easily put Metaknight anywhere between 50% to 80%. Bad news for Metaknight. This is one of Falco's two most important points against Metaknight.

- Lasers. Lasers limit Metaknight's approach options and stop every move he has. Proper use of lasers and Phantasms can completely stop Metaknight in his tracks and make Falco nearly unreachable, plus they can also stun Metaknight and set up for a kill. This is the other of Falco's two most important points against Metaknight.

- Stage control. This is one of the things Metaknight cannot do. Falco can take control of a large portion of the stage and hold it without ever losing any ground. If Falco can take control of the stage then he will beat Metaknight. (I'd like to reference everyone to Dojo for more about this. I've already said a lot about him, but Sethlon was able to very literally run circles around Dojo on Luigi's Mansion and if not for Metaknights very powerful edge guard and gimp game Dojo would most likely have lost the match. Good stuff on taking that opportunity though, Doj, you're super pro )

The Grey Area where both are good

- Air game. Whoever has control in the air will be dealing a sizable amount of damage to the one who is not in control. Both characters have a very strong set of aerials with multiple damage-dealing and kill moves in the air.

- Maneuverability. Both characters have amazing zoning abilities and can either chase or run from the other one very well, as well as make it a nightmare for the other player to read where they're going to go.

Stages and Counterpicking

This is probably the most valuable information I can give you for this matchup. Counterpicking is really important.

- For the love of God ban Final Destination. It's nearly impossible to win here, logically. If you don't want to ban Final D then ban Jungle Japes where it's legal. Also avoid stages and situations where you can get chain grabbed off the side of the stage.

- For neutrals you want to push for platforms to play around with, so either Pokemon Stadium or Battlefield is likely your best bet.

- You want to take Falco to a stage where you limit his stage control AND give you additional approach options. My personal favorites are Rainbow Cruise, then Delfino Plaza, then Halberd, then Norfair.


Final Verdict

I'm about to get flamed for this. There are two percentage ranges I'm going to give for this matchup.

If Falco is able to get his chain grab early - 55:45 - 60:40 in favor of Falco (Unless on Final Destination. Yeah, good luck with that stage.)

If Falco is unable to grab Metaknight - 55:45 - 60:40 in favor of Metaknight

I can't really put an overall ratio down for this match because of how dependent it is on that chain grab. Yes, the chain grab is that important in this matchup. Keep this in mind and try your best to stay away from his grabs and it will swing the scales in your favor.

My advice to Metaknight players

This is the strategy I've used against every Falco I've played against in tournament and it's brought me a lot of success so far. (Seth is totally going to beat me next time we play now >.<" )

On neutrals - Get on a platform and stay there, use tornado to try and bring Falco up onto the platform with you. Once he's up there get under him and try to get him in the air and deal as much damage as possible. Repeat this strategy until you're above 50%, then rush him down and lay into him with as much aggression as possible. DO NOT use your down smash on him until he's at roughly 115% and near an edge. Once he's off the edge just do your normal thing and either gimp him or beat his Phantasms with your neutral air, the opening frames of Shuttle Loop, or your Tornado. This is the position you most want Falco to be in: off the stage.

On counterpicks - It should be virtually impossible for him to grab you on your counterpick stage and you should be able to approach him from the bottom at any point of the stage. You want to get in, peck away a little bit and then get out as fast as possible until you're above 50%. Essentially you'll be using the platform strategy from before, but instead of one or two platforms the whole stage should be acting as a platform for you. Once you're above 50% you're free to do whatever you want, just stay close to him and keep him in the air and off the stage.

On both Neutrals and Counterpicks - Don't spend too much time trying to dodge his lasers or you'll get punished for it in a very subtle way and you'll rarely get a hand on him. Once you're inside kill range (I think it's something in the 120s but I'm not exactly sure) it's best to just stay on the ground and shield the lasers as you try to approach because if you're in the air and get hit by one you'll eat an up smash and die. Remember that your two main goals should be to stay away from his grabs early on and to try and get him off the stage and keep him there as long as possible. Falco's weakest area in this match is off the side of the stage, where you're perfectly comfortable and can still both kill and deal damage very efficiently. If Falco tries to Phantasm onto the stage catch him in a tornado and the knock him back off the stage with whatever best fits the situation. The rest is up to you

 

[Deoxys]

What about planking? Did you factor it in?

What's better for MK, SV or YI?

Why Delfino and Halberd over Norfair? Is it because Norfair makes him harder to gimp?

Is there a way to decide which direction they will be knocked out of the nado? I haven't figured out a pattern yet.

Where is the Dojo/Sethlon vid?

 

[Infinitysmash]

What about planking? Did you factor it in?

First - Planking is a form of stalling and will likely result in a game loss for you, so I advise against it. (Yes, even if you're ahead you're the one deliberately slowing the flow of the match and attempting to exploit the rules by avoiding contact; this is stalling.)

Also, if you use the strategy I suggested then you won't need it anyway.

I do realize that this is a valid strategy, but I don't personally use it because I see no need to. I kept it in mind when I declared my matchup ratios and it's what kept me from saying the matchup was even in the 'no grab' scenario.

What's better for MK, SV or YI?

I'd honestly stick with Smashville on this one, but that's because I personally feel more comfortable on Smashville. The platform on Yoshi's is long enough for you to be chain grabbed on, but the one on Smashville is unreliable because of how it moves around and when it's not there this is effectively another Final Destination, albeit a bit smaller.

This is probably going to come down to personal preference. I feel like Smashville is better as long as the platform is above the stage, even if Falco isn't nearby, but if it's not there then you're basically fighting on a smaller Final Destination which would make Yoshi's better.

Why Delfino and Halberd over Norfair? Is it because Norfair makes him harder to gimp?

This is correct. It's also harder to chase him on Norfair that the other stages.

Is there a way to decide which direction they will be knocked out of the nado? I haven't figured out a pattern yet.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. The tornado usually pops people out of the top and they're able to DI from there. Just chase them after it pops them up.

Where is the Dojo/Sethlon vid?

The match didn't get recorded, though I really wish it did because it was probably one of the closest at the tournament. What I meant when I said that was that Dojo was the best place to get more information about that subject if you want it because he's experienced it in some pretty interesting ways.

 

[CY]

lol @ 60-40 with the CG. that is bs. i'll play you this weekend at HOBO infi, i don't think we have ever played.

 

[GMo]

Don't ban FD against Falco, ban Japes...always. FD really isn't that bad for MK (it is, however, his worst neutral to fight Falco on). Meanwhile Japes = 0-death from a grab because a good Falco will switch the direction of the chaingrab with pivot boost grab (see Sethlon vs Fogo on Japes) and spike you into the water on the left side of the stage. As far as I know MK cannot recover from this. Also Falco's maneuverability on Japes is ridiculous (see, again, Sethlon vs Fogo on Japes). He can just phantasm to any ledge back and forth with phantasm.

I haven't read of (but there may be cases) of a player planking and losing a match because of it. So I'm going to assume, in most places it is legal. If MK has no soul and planks (play to win, I guess) then you shutdown a large aspect of Falco's game (the chaingrab (more or less) and lasers). This sways the match up tremendously and makes it not even close to even.

MK's aerials are simply superior to Falco's. Planking now forces Falco to approach (or lose by timeout), and it is the general consensus (see: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207900) there isn't much of a safe approach. Be sure to add into that invincibility frames.

I have class, more on this later.

 

[Affinity]

I'll add this to the match-up thread once more discussion takes place.

 

[MetaZeph]

personally i havent been updated on recent tournament rules, out of curiosity, is chain grabbing being banned or is it allowed, if so then thats an easy 40% for falco against MK, also is B sticking setup on gamecube controllers also allowed? thats another plus for falco, but like i said, just curious
i still believe mk has 50/50 at least against everybody. ^_^

 

[Affinity]

personally i havent been updated on recent tournament rules, out of curiosity, is chain grabbing being banned or is it allowed, if so then thats an easy 40% for falco against MK, also is B sticking setup on gamecube controllers also allowed? thats another plus for falco, but like i said, just curious
i still believe mk has 50/50 at least against everybody. ^_^

Chain-grabbing has never been banned in the Smash series.

 

[GMo]

Excuse me if I reiterate something Infinity has said. He has presented this from a (good) MK perspective and I'll try to present you this matchup from a (mediocre) Falco position. In this example we'll assume you won't plank, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter (honor or its boring or whatever).

Notable things Falco can do:

CG to 36% (can jump away that point according tot he Falco board's chaingrab breakdown) and from the chaingrab Falco can do a series of things most notably spike. Also be wary of a DLX (it's a dash attack to instant up kick). I say be wary because for intents and purposes this can be avoided after several consecutive dthrows.

Phantasm spikes (weak, though).

Have laser's hitstun lag you into a free up smash. For bonus points laser you out of a nado and you with an usmash as Infinity said.

The usmash will KO you at ~105% if fresh. This will be his primary kill move. Be aware of Fsmash, Bair, Dsmash, and Dair spike also (these are listed in a respective order of what you will die to).

Shine and Lasers go through the nado and Phantasm CAN (I'm not sure the spacing. It tends to not go through, especially when Phantasming on to stage for recovery.) It has been said, "You can phantasm through the tornado if you hit it in the right spot, I believe it's right at the tip of where MK's head would be positioned inside of the tornado."

*According to the Falco Board's CG thread* When being chaingrabbed MK can Nair and Uair to rack up damages (The grab has the priority, however).

Basic in-fight points:

Falco isn't going to approach because...well because it is a bad idea and, well, why should he? So the match begins and with it come lasers. MK is forced to approach and will have to approach for the rest of the match, more than likely always.

So Falco is SH(D)Ling you trying to pepper you with lasers. Run at him and powershielding each laser accordingly (this isn't that hard to do, my Marth friend does this all the time and he is what most would consider mediocre as far as competitive standards are concerned). Be aware you are very short so the SHDL timing has to be spot on (it more than likely will with good Falco players).

From there it becomes a damage race, but in the back of your mind know that Falco is going for a grab. A disciplined Falco will be patient and wait for you to make a mistake, but a novice will try to force it. If they try and force the grab you need to punish accordingly. Play smart and careful at lower percents. Don't take unnecessary risks. Don't get grabbed.

Easier said than done, I know, but that's the best advice I can give on that.

After MK is out of CG range I oftentimes find it hard for me to deal with his speed. I have to play keep away to compensate. If Falco gets away, probably through a phantasm, expect to restart the approach game and avoid lasers. If you can overwhelm Falco with smartly placed offensive attacks he will find it hard to deal with. Play your game, if you can, because as noted before I don't know of many other characters in Brawl better than Falco at stage control. So try to stay in his face.

Now comes the time where MK shines and Falco fails. Hard. Keep Falco off the stage/in the air. MK's gimping game is second to none and Falco's recovery is pretty much bad. Get Falco off the stage and if you play right it is probably going to be a stock loss for him. Smart play may get him back on a few times (all of us Falco players have experiences the horror of have to recover so we deal with it well), but there is no excuse for not gimping him regularly.

If you are going to kill on stage, it is best to just play the standard MK kill game. You all know better than I do here, so I'll let you decide that part.

Falco's primary kill moves, as stated above, are usmash, fsmash, and bair. His secondary ones are probably his dsmash and dair spike (unlikely against MK). Falco is going to dance around peppering with lasers and will try to mix the hitstun from the laser into a smash.

I don't have much more to add.

PS: Here is why you ban Japes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU



EDIT: I'm not a big fan of assigning an arbitrary number to matchups but...
6.5 to 3.5/7 to 3 with Planking
5.5 to 4.5/6 to 4 otherwise

 

[Infinitysmash]

In regards to the chain grab - That thread isn't accurate, GMo. Metaknight can't use any aerials to put on damage in between the grabs or it wouldn't be such a big deal, now would it? Metaknight gets grabbed up to 45% and can be chased with down airs from there, putting him anywhere from the 50's and up.

In regards to Jungle Japes - Sethlon counterpicked that against me at a tournament not too long ago and I won the match. I do remember having to make a comeback to win though. I've never won a game against Seth on Final D. Metaknight has just as many games and gimmicks on Japes as Falco with his Dimensional Cape (not the infinite one, screw that) and his Drill Rush, plus he has platforms to play around with. On Final Destination Metaknight has nothing to play around with t all. I understand that Japes is very good for Falco, but I'd much rather play on Japes than Final D from personal experience, which is why I recommended that ban instead of Japes.

I'm at work, I'll find videos later when I get the chance.

 

[MetaZeph]

ty infinity wasnt sure.

 

[saviorslegacy]

CG give's Falco a 60 to 40?????? How did you come about this? CG only works at low percents, and a good MK will only take the beating up too 50%. What about the rest of the damage to a KO set up? MK can just destroy Falco. The only thing Falco has is laser's, CG(at low percents), good grab game and a reflecter. MK has god own speed and a 0% recovery moto. =_=

 

[8AngeL8]

I feel like Falco has to play this matchup similarly to how he plays the ice climbers. Except, replace "don't get grabbed" with "don't get hit." Once Meta Knight breaks Falco's defenses, it's a ***** to shake him. Falco needs to be running and lasering, and throwing out nairs and Ftilts to space when MK corners him.

When it comes to stages, you're guaranteed to be able to screw Falco over with counterpicks. You have Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, and Luigi's Mansion, none of which Falco will want to go to. Whichever he bans, go with the one you're most comfortable with that's left.

As far as neutrals, I always ban Battlefield and Yoshi's Island against MK. I like to keep PS simply because a lot of the time it's almost FD, even though I feel like the stage changes favor MK. Falco should just run and laser exclusively during these parts, I guess.

 

[8AngeL8]

Internet connection glitched out, accidental double post.

 

[-Jumpman-]

You might want to add Falco cannot effectively counter SH retreating fairs so you can use that to not get grabbed. I might add something this weekend, after I played a Falco.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I say play defencively untill you get off stage. then go agro-uber-gimpy on the bird.

this match up is harder than it looks.

well....not really. but still a chalenge

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Excuse me if I reiterate something Infinity has said. He has presented this from a (good) MK perspective and I'll try to present you this matchup from a (mediocre) Falco position. In this example we'll assume you won't plank, for whatever reason, it doesn't matter (honor or its boring or whatever).

Notable things Falco can do:

CG to 36% (can jump away that point according tot he Falco board's chaingrab breakdown) and from the chaingrab Falco can do a series of things most notably spike. Also be wary of a DLX (it's a dash attack to instant up kick). I say be wary because for intents and purposes this can be avoided after several consecutive dthrows.

Phantasm spikes (weak, though).

Have laser's hitstun lag you into a free up smash. For bonus points laser you out of a nado and you with an usmash as Infinity said.

The usmash will KO you at ~105% if fresh. This will be his primary kill move. Be aware of Fsmash, Bair, Dsmash, and Dair spike also (these are listed in a respective order of what you will die to).

Shine and Lasers go through the nado and Phantasm CAN (I'm not sure the spacing. It tends to not go through, especially when Phantasming on to stage for recovery.) It has been said, "You can phantasm through the tornado if you hit it in the right spot, I believe it's right at the tip of where MK's head would be positioned inside of the tornado."

*According to the Falco Board's CG thread* When being chaingrabbed MK can Nair and Uair to rack up damages (The grab has the priority, however).

Basic in-fight points:

Falco isn't going to approach because...well because it is a bad idea and, well, why should he? So the match begins and with it come lasers. MK is forced to approach and will have to approach for the rest of the match, more than likely always.

So Falco is SH(D)Ling you trying to pepper you with lasers. Run at him and powershielding each laser accordingly (this isn't that hard to do, my Marth friend does this all the time and he is what most would consider mediocre as far as competitive standards are concerned). Be aware you are very short so the SHDL timing has to be spot on (it more than likely will with good Falco players).

From there it becomes a damage race, but in the back of your mind know that Falco is going for a grab. A disciplined Falco will be patient and wait for you to make a mistake, but a novice will try to force it. If they try and force the grab you need to punish accordingly. Play smart and careful at lower percents. Don't take unnecessary risks. Don't get grabbed.

Easier said than done, I know, but that's the best advice I can give on that.

After MK is out of CG range I oftentimes find it hard for me to deal with his speed. I have to play keep away to compensate. If Falco gets away, probably through a phantasm, expect to restart the approach game and avoid lasers. If you can overwhelm Falco with smartly placed offensive attacks he will find it hard to deal with. Play your game, if you can, because as noted before I don't know of many other characters in Brawl better than Falco at stage control. So try to stay in his face.

Now comes the time where MK shines and Falco fails. Hard. Keep Falco off the stage/in the air. MK's gimping game is second to none and Falco's recovery is pretty much bad. Get Falco off the stage and if you play right it is probably going to be a stock loss for him. Smart play may get him back on a few times (all of us Falco players have experiences the horror of have to recover so we deal with it well), but there is no excuse for not gimping him regularly.

If you are going to kill on stage, it is best to just play the standard MK kill game. You all know better than I do here, so I'll let you decide that part.

Falco's primary kill moves, as stated above, are usmash, fsmash, and bair. His secondary ones are probably his dsmash and dair spike (unlikely against MK). Falco is going to dance around peppering with lasers and will try to mix the hitstun from the laser into a smash.

I don't have much more to add.

PS: Here is why you ban Japes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU



EDIT: I'm not a big fan of assigning an arbitrary number to matchups but...
6.5 to 3.5/7 to 3 with Planking
5.5 to 4.5/6 to 4 otherwise

Wow... That video scares me. I didn't know he had such great mobility options... Also, what is planking? (yes, I can't believe I don't know this too)

Well, my tip is that approaching horrizontally will leave you in some big trouble since those lasers cover so much ground.... Vertical approaches downward aren't good cause that's metaknight's "not so good" spot. Shield through lasers and use tornado when you feel like he is going to grab you instead of lasering. His aerial game is only good when he has momentum. Once you get him up there and space aerials right, you'll get him into an edge guarding situation pretty quickly. Watch for his kill moves.

 

[ftl]

Wow... That video scares me. I didn't know he had such great mobility options... Also, what is planking? (yes, I can't believe I don't know this too)

A particularly vicious brand of edgecamping. Named after Plank. The classic example is this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg . (In fact, it's even vs a Falco, and a very good Falco at that.)

 

[Infinitysmash]

A particularly vicious brand of edgecamping. Named after Plank. The classic example is this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phRs10GVwvg . (In fact, it's even vs a Falco, and a very good Falco at that.)

And that Falco gets him down to the last stock and at a solid percentage in spite of him doing that. This video is proof that even WITH that strategy the matchup is still close.

 

[brinboy789]

just an interesting fact: MK's crouch sucks so much, a falcos laser can still hit him when hes crouching LOL

 

[Darxmarth23]

This match up is kinda stretched.

The fact that MK is the only character who is even close to comboing is the reason why he is top.

 

[Gates]

personally i havent been updated on recent tournament rules, out of curiosity, is chain grabbing being banned or is it allowed, if so then thats an easy 40% for falco against MK

Chaingrabbing has never been banned. The only exception to this is Dedede's infinite chaingrab which is currently under consideration for banning since it affects a whopping 6 characters (oh noes, I can't play Samus, john john john john john).

On topic: I haven't played Falco in a long, long time, but I think the matchup is still in Metaknight's favor. The Falco players in this matchup generally have to work a harder to get the win than the Metaknight players, though there are many tactics they can use to make it better for themselves.

 

[Fluke]

And that Falco gets him down to the last stock and at a solid percentage in spite of him doing that. This video is proof that even WITH that strategy the matchup is still close.

Hmm. Sorry to not know much about metaknight players. But how good is Sethlon compared to the falco community and plank with the metaknight community?

Because Sethlon is at least one of the top 5 falcos.


It could have been skill difference, not strategy.



And avoiding falco's grab is not difficult [insert 10don'tgetgrabs in reference to icys (and falco's doesnt' have a 0 death on meta]. So the falco ends up not grabbing and just gets metaknight up to 50% anyway with him at 100+%

 

[OverLade]

This matchup is close but in metas favor I'd say on most stages, and mabye even on FD.

 

[Dojo]

Idk, I feel it's even on FD as well a few counterpicks. Sethlon has really been picking it up.

 

[Deoxys]

Idk, I feel it's even on FD as well a few counterpicks. Sethlon has really been picking it up.

Wow, so there's no agreement here? You'd ban Japes then, Dojo?

Hmm. Sorry to not know much about metaknight players. But how good is Sethlon compared to the falco community and plank with the metaknight community?

Because Sethlon is at least one of the top 5 falcos.


It could have been skill difference, not strategy.

It's not that. Plank is far from being in the top 5 MKs.

The fact that MK is the only character who is even close to comboing is the reason why he is top.

1. Red font is not allowed unless you're a mod.
2. Ganondorf can combo... IDK where you're getting this "no combos in Brawl" info.

First - Planking is a form of stalling and will likely result in a game loss for you, so I advise against it. (Yes, even if you're ahead you're the one deliberately slowing the flow of the match and attempting to exploit the rules by avoiding contact; this is stalling.)

Also, if you use the strategy I suggested then you won't need it anyway.

I do realize that this is a valid strategy, but I don't personally use it because I see no need to. I kept it in mind when I declared my matchup ratios and it's what kept me from saying the matchup was even in the 'no grab' scenario.

In the North East planking's usually allowed. Even if you don't need it, if it increases your win % you should do it in tourney.


Doesn't Falco basically auto-lose if you get ahead in % on PS1 and just hang out under the overhanging ledge and spam uair and SL?

 

[GMo]

And that Falco gets him down to the last stock and at a solid percentage in spite of him doing that. This video is proof that even WITH that strategy the matchup is still close.

I don't think that video proves that at all. You make an assumption that Plank and SK92 (at that time) were very similarly skilled. I've personally never played either of them, so I'll suspend judgment, but I will say that SK92 is generally considered to be one of, if not the, best Falco player; he is easily in the top three (SK92, Sethlon, D1). Most, I'd say, consider him to be the best. So in order to make the claim that the video proves that even with planking the matchup is close, makes the assumption that arguably the best Falco is (was at that time) on an equal level of skill as Plank.

I'm not trying to take away anything from Plank, and am certainly not saying he isn't a good MK. It is obvious Plank is a clever dude. I'm just calling into question if it is fair to actually assume that the matchup is close to even based on that video.

Just think about it, Falco loses most uses for one of his most important assets. Think of where Falco would be in the tiers if he had no neutral b move, because Planking essentially strips away most of the common uses for it. Now from there Falco is forced to approach, and his approach options are fairly limited, predictable, and punishable.

There is one redeeming thing about planking in general, however. Falco can get a heavy advantage in percent if he lands a grab early in the match. If he is capable of holding the lead throughout then, obviously, planking cannot be employed by MK. It is important to note that it is extremely idealistic to expect Falco to be able to never, at any point in the match, lose a percent advantage. I mean, c'mon, it's freakin' MK.

I can't see this matchup being close to even when MK planks efficiently. If we're to assume that planking is banned (which it isn't and probably won't be) or MK decides to not plank then I still give MK an advantage on all neutral stages (sans FD). FD is very close to neutral, and could be argued either way. On couterpicks, however, I would say that Japes gives Falco an advantage, even taking into consideration MK's tricks on that stage too (that you mentioned before), which I hadn't considered originally. The maxim "don't get grabbed" still applies but is even more important when playing on JJapes, because a CG from Falco changes from a free ~50% to a free stock. Any mid to high level Falco will spike you off the left side out of a CG (using a pivot boost grab to change CG direction) into the current. Which, unless I'm mistaken, is impossible to recover. Also, JJapes seems to really restrict MK's ability to plank because of the klaptraps (is that what they're called?) that randomly(?) attack you when hanging on the central platform.

So, in conclusion, if you are MK and find yourself fighting a Falco player you should do the following (if possible): Ban Japes, Plank, and strike FD from the neutral pick, amongst other things.

EDIT: Thinking right now, I would submit that MK's worst matchup vs any character+stage couterpick may be Falco on Japes. Anyone care to disprove my assertion?

EDIT2: Infinity, could you provide reasons why, "logically, it is nearly impossible to win on FD?"* Also, I have to ask you to provide reasoning why FD is worse than Japes besides, MK has tricks on that stage akin to Falco's (can you briefly expand on this? I'm not familiar with this and am simply visualizing what he could do in my head.), platforms (I agree this one helps MK - maybe expand on this as well.), and, "I beat Sethlon there this one time."

I understand FD is long, has no platforms, and is flat, but...is that it? Also note that the lip on FD doesn't really hurt MK's recovery, whereas it can be a royal ***** for a firebirding Falco sometimes. A small thing to consider(small because most good players, like Sethlon, won't find themselves getting boned by this very often).

EDIT3 (last one): I just saw a thread discussing the top 5 MKs. Plank's name was thrown around.

Link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6009533#post6009533


*I am paraphrasing what you said, and in context it may have been somewhat sarcastic.

 

[neji32]

Final Verdict

I'm about to get flamed for this. There are two percentage ranges I'm going to give for this matchup.

If Falco is able to get his chain grab early - 55:45 - 60:40 in favor of Falco (Unless on Final Destination. Yeah, good luck with that stage.)

i actually found it easier to fight mk on fd. When i fought os mk he would pick any level but fd. It got annoying. Yea, cg help in this match up

 

[Plairnkk]

I only ever "plank" against Falco, and that is just because he's annoying to fight. Watch me against SK92, everytime I did get behind I got on the stage, got my percentage lead back without a problem, and got back on the edge. I did not have very much difficulty with sk92 on the stage, the most damage he did to me was actually punishing me when i tried to plank him. Lol, there are multiple times in the set when i was down at least 50% and just easily came back. I can fight Falco on the stage, i just prefer to hang on the ledge and annoy them, because all they ever do is annoy me.

People assume if I didn't do that I would've lost, which doesn't even make sense at all anyway.

And deoxys, you are completely and utterly wrong, and I don't know where you get your information. I have a more impressive tournament record than almost all other metaknights, minus m2k and maybe forte (he has beaten a lot of good players also, even though he loses sometimes to players who arent that good)

 

[GMo]

So, Plank, do you think your tactic puts Falco at anymore of a disadvantage than regular on stage fighting would?

Because I read that properly you only "plank" because Falco's lasers annoy you. You did/do not use this for any sort of advantage, at all?

I'm not questioning the ethics of what you do (irrelevant to this discussion), but simply why you do it.

 

[Plairnkk]

If I did it correctly, it would put me at more of an advantage. This video was the first time I had ever really tried to do it, lol. At this point I am WAY better at it, and it would put me at a huge advantage. At the time of the video, though, I think it hurt me more than it helped. Check out the 2nd video. I get a 7% lead, I get on the edge. When he tries to come get me off the ledge i try to shuttle loop him and get grabbed and comboed for 90%. So what do I do... I get back on the stage... do practically 100% unanswered, and camp more. I tried to annoy him, and it certainly worked, didn't it? I got the whole smash communities attention, whereas if I just won, nobody would've really noticed. My videos against chillin (a much better player than sk92) have not NEARLY the same attention as the sk92 videos because the same tactics weren't used.

I'm not going to say for sure that if I didn't edgecamp I would have won, just as it's not fair to say that if I didn't edgecamp I would have lost.

 

[Deoxys]

And deoxys, you are completely and utterly wrong, and I don't know where you get your information. I have a more impressive tournament record than almost all other metaknights, minus m2k and maybe forte (he has beaten a lot of good players also, even though he loses sometimes to players who arent that good)

You're right. You're not far from the top 5, as you're in the top 10. M2K, teh_spammerer, DSF, Forte, and Dojo are all better than you at MK IMO. Actually, KDJ is better with MK than you, too, right?

 

[Infinitysmash]

You're right. You're not far from the top 5, as you're in the top 10. M2K, teh_spammerer, DSF, Forte, and Dojo are all better than you at MK IMO. Actually, KDJ is better with MK than you, too, right?

I have no clue who Spammer is, and Lee Martin definitely deserves to be in the top 5. Where did you find that list? lol

 

[Deoxys]

I have no clue who Spammer is, and Lee Martin definitely deserves to be in the top 5. Where did you find that list? lol

I pulled it out of my ***. I forgot Lee. IDK if DSF deserves a spot or not. My point is that Plank shouldn't be on it, although I was wrong to say he was far from that level of MK mastery.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

wait... some of the people on the MK boards actually think MK is disadvantaged in this match?


ROFL

 

[Darxmarth23]

wait... some of the people on the MK boards actually think MK is disadvantaged in this match?


ROFL

Lulz man. Yeah.

ppl, come to your senses!

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Falco is annoying as **** regardless of what character you're using, I still think MK destroys him if you have a level head on your shoulders and don't play stupid (can't be said for that many MK mains, sadly)

Falco has nothing on MK's down tilt. His out of shield options and killing options are all obvious as ****.. and, they suck rofl


L/R Trigger > Falco

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

And that Falco gets him down to the last stock and at a solid percentage in spite of him doing that. This video is proof that even WITH that strategy the matchup is still close.

Sorry but that video doesn't show much at all. Plank in general uses a solid defensive MK strategy that works on a lot of players, but his actual match-up knowledge, switch-up game, and offense are all pretty lackluster. He doesn't even practice and he doesn't take Brawl very seriously beyond money. IIRC he doesn't even like the game. He just goes to tournaments, picks MK, and tries to win so he can get money lol. You shouldn't judge so much from one goofy set.

 

[Mew2King]

i dont think mk ***** falco, i think it's hard. I don't know how to avoid being CGed at some point, because when i try down tilting they just combo falcos dair into grab (sometimes air dodge) then CG me to 50+ then laser camp if i dont approach. So ****ing boring

 

[Skyflyer]

As much as I my get flamed, I agree with plank just a bit.

I don't plank against most falcos, but this one falco on aib spammed lasers so effing much. Ridiculous. He would laser near the edge of the stage and then phantasm when I got close. He didn't always phantasm which made it hard to predict. I thought of planking. I eventually caught up to him but it was too late.