The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[Jyl]

Actually, it doesn't. The article is misquoted. It tells us he isn't easily going to add in JP-only characters. Takamaru, even after getting a US release, still didn't get an appearance. Beyond Fire Emblem, no new series got a playable character unless they at least had some Western appearances. Being that Lip does since New Leaf, it means she's definitely possible, but not super likely beyond a Trophy and/or AT. Not that these are bad, as they still would do a lot.


Right, I was pointing out what it did say. Hesitance is different from' Lol no". I can understand the confusion for it. It's really strange. Do you mean the "Ness might be cut again" or the "wouldn't have added Lucas in" bit, btw? Those are very different points.

It does fit with his idea that "characters with no foreseeable future are lower priority" at least. That would actually explain why Ness was almost cut in Melee, and might've been almost cut in Brawl.

Oh thanks for clarifying.
Actually in this community I notice people misquoting Sakurai a lot and offering their own interpretation. Well that's to be expected I guess.

Going back to Lip tho, I do think the stereotype of “female fairies not selling” is ridiculous. We live in a time period where rainbow colored ponies has a fanbase composed of little girls, grown girls, and grown men. And said grown men are so devoted to MLP, there’s an official term for them. If Hasbro managed to pull something like that, Nintendo can’t? I mean, I know I’m comparing a cartoon to a video game franchise, but that hardly matters, considering how much of a following they have. Nintendo shouldn’t use gender stereotypes to decide whether Lip should be known outside of Japan or not. (Then we have Samus who literally breaks gender stereotypes) Who literally cares if Lip or the other fairies are female? As long as they are well written and have likable personalities, who cares? They would sell, Nintendo just needs to put effort into it. Seriously. Smash Ultimate could literally be the ticket to put PdP back on the map as its own identity. At this point, if NoA says no, they’re just out to have her fade into complete obscurity. No more excuses. Make it happen. I WILL make it happen. I won’t give up on her no matter what. Why? Because that is what a true fan of an underrated series would do. You can keep pumping out all these Mario parties or whatever nintendo, but I still think what you’re trying to sweep under your rug of lost IP’s (Especially PdP, with the amount of replacements) is just unjustified, and quite frankly, stupid.

These days it's probably less that "Little cute girls won't sell" and more that Lip is quite unknown in the West among the casuals.

 

[N. Onymous]

These days it's probably less that "Little cute girls won't sell" and more that Lip is quite unknown in the West among the casuals.

It's ridiculously easy to fix that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The game is called Super Smash Bros. Special in Japan. The word Ultimate is being taken too literally. It just has more content than the rest as normal, really.

 

[N. Onymous]

The game is called Super Smash Bros. Special in Japan. The word Ultimate is being taken too literally. It just has more content than the rest as normal, really.

Same difference, really. What's so special about it if Lip isn't there?

 

[MasterRosie]

Oh thanks for clarifying.
These days it's probably less that "Little cute girls won't sell" and more that Lip is quite unknown in the West among the casuals.

Oh, well then....*ahem* Nintendo....
ACTUALLY.
DO.
SOMETHING.
ABOUT.
THAT.

 

[NukeA6]

Same difference, really. What's so special about it if Lip isn't there?

Well it does have every character that has ever been in Smash + a few new ones including two from Castlevania. Sounds pretty special to me and we're not finished yet.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I think it's weird to see how Americans despise fairies.
Are they threatening their masculinity? Ahaha, I don't know, just think it's funny how both Lip and Tingle is being shot down hard by America.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I think it's weird to see how Americans despise fairies.
Are they threatening their masculinity? Ahaha, I don't know, just think it's funny how both Lip and Tingle is being shot down hard by America.

A new game could use a bit more cast diversity. Not just fairies, but of course they have to be the most populated out of the characters in the game. Puyo Puyo has more cast diversity overall. Not all of the fairies should be in skirts/dresses and they could use more male fairies than just Kain.

Windy and Sherbet could use some changes in their design because the successors Sophia and Think (does like a trouble maker, unlike Sherbet) are more in line with their character descriptions overall. I think Sherbet would be better suited with her description if she wore shorts instead of a skirt, similar to Think. Sophia fits more to the element Wind than Windy only because her Wings on her shoes better convey wind than just a piece of cotton. Sophia is more obviously influenced by Greek Mythology.

I think the reason Windy and Sherbet looks a bit copy & pasted from the clothing without the flower references from Lip is because they might of possibly been the first fairies created for Panel de Pon or a cancelled project. Since I don't see concept drawings for characters outside of Lip, Windy, or Sherbet.

Maybe also make the Mascot characters playable too because the GBA game was the closest thing to having one which was Pupuri.

Also here's a character poll of the Panel de Pon characters in WariDesi's website:
http://www.geocities.jp/koji0808koji/PanePonNINKIsfc.html

Spoiler: Popularity Panel de Pon

1) Flare
13.63%

2) Ruby
12.78%

3) Seren
9.37%

4) Sherbet
9.37%

5) Windy
8.23%

6) Thiana
7.38%

7) Lip/Neris/Thanatos
6.25%

10) Cordelia
5.68%

11) Elias
5.39%

12) Phoenix
5.39%

13) Dragon
3.97%

http://www.geocities.jp/koji0808koji/PanePonNINKIgc.html

Spoiler: GC game

1) Sophia
21.05%

2) Furil/Rhinze
9.77%

4) Sala
9.02%

5)Cecil/Rayea
8.27%

7) Kain/pure
6.76%

9) Think/Nathia
6.01%

11) Joker
4.51%

12) Jilba/Kick Chop
1.5%

14) Hags
0.75%

 

[StarDustStorm]

https://twitter.com/SmashBrosJP/status/1049469494505091072
Today's fighter is Dr. Mario...
sigh, still no proper Puzzle Rep in a Smash Bros. game.

 

[N. Onymous]

sigh, still no proper Puzzle Rep in a Smash Bros. game.

Not yet, anyway. Don't lose hope.

 

[MasterRosie]

Today's fighter is Dr. Mario...
sigh, still no proper Puzzle Rep in a Smash Bros. game.

Same.
I’m fine with Dr. Mario and all, (he’s easy to implement anyway, so no harm no foul) but when I want a puzzle character, I want a puzzle character that isn’t just from a puzzle game, but actually can reflect strategical puzzle based gameplay in said character’s moveset. Having Lip drop garbage blocks and use the panel swap to swap her placement with projectiles, items, and even fighters would really make you think on how to use those moves wisely and strategically, rather than just throwing them out.

 

[Jyl]

A new game could use a bit more cast diversity. Not just fairies, but of course they have to be the most populated out of the characters in the game. Puyo Puyo has more cast diversity overall. Not all of the fairies should be in skirts/dresses and they could use more male fairies than just Kain.

Windy and Sherbet could use some changes in their design because the successors Sophia and Think (does like a trouble maker, unlike Sherbet) are more in line with their character descriptions overall. I think Sherbet would be better suited with her description if she wore shorts instead of a skirt, similar to Think. Sophia fits more to the element Wind than Windy only because her Wings on her shoes better convey wind than just a piece of cotton. Sophia is more obviously influenced by Greek Mythology.

I think the reason Windy and Sherbet looks a bit copy & pasted from the clothing without the flower references from Lip is because they might of possibly been the first fairies created for Panel de Pon or a cancelled project. Since I don't see concept drawings for characters outside of Lip, Windy, or Sherbet.

Maybe also make the Mascot characters playable too because the GBA game was the closest thing to having one which was Pupuri.

Also here's a character poll of the Panel de Pon characters in WariDesi's website:
http://www.geocities.jp/koji0808koji/PanePonNINKIsfc.html

Spoiler: Popularity Panel de Pon

1) Flare
13.63%

2) Ruby
12.78%

3) Seren
9.37%

4) Sherbet
9.37%

5) Windy
8.23%

6) Thiana
7.38%

7) Lip/Neris/Thanatos
6.25%

10) Cordelia
5.68%

11) Elias
5.39%

12) Phoenix
5.39%

13) Dragon
3.97%

http://www.geocities.jp/koji0808koji/PanePonNINKIgc.html

Spoiler: GC game

1) Sophia
21.05%

2) Furil/Rhinze
9.77%

4) Sala
9.02%

5)Cecil/Rayea
8.27%

7) Kain/pure
6.76%

9) Think/Nathia
6.01%

11) Joker
4.51%

12) Jilba/Kick Chop
1.5%

14) Hags
0.75%

Poor Elias I thought she'd be more popular. Flare is obvious; great design and personality.
I think they should keep the classic design for nostalgia purpose.

 

[NukeA6]

I think it's weird to see how Americans despise fairies.
Are they threatening their masculinity? Ahaha, I don't know, just think it's funny how both Lip and Tingle is being shot down hard by America.

The thing is that fairies are usually viewed as sexy ladies with wings (i.e. Tinkerbell). Lip and Tingle aren't what people view as fairies since one looks like a magical girl and the other is just a freeloader who thinks he's one.

 

[Jyl]

The thing is that fairies are usually viewed as sexy ladies with wings (i.e. Tinkerbell). Lip and Tingle aren't what people view as fairies since one looks like a magical girl and the other is just a freeloader who thinks he's one.

This, I see the panel de pon "fairies" less as fairies and more as magical girls.
I mean I think that's what the early Nintendo was aiming for anyways; mahou shojo themed game.

 

[11th]

Quick question: Would anyone here mind poking WAリでし (Twitter) about the pending closure of Geocities in Japan? It's not exactly new news, and it's possible (likely, even) that he has already seen the notice, but it has been bugging me... his Panel de Pon site is hosted there, and it'd be a shame for anything be lost.

 

[N. Onymous]

Quick question: Would anyone here mind poking WAリでし (Twitter) about the pending closure of Geocities in Japan? It's not exactly new news, and it's possible (likely, even) that he has already seen the notice, but it has been bugging me... his Panel de Pon site is hosted there, and it'd be a shame for anything be lost.

While it's upsetting to hear his awesome site might be lost, I think the fewer non-Japanese fans who prod him about it the better. You know how Japanese creators tend to be.

 

[StarDustStorm]

While it's upsetting to hear his awesome site might be lost, I think the fewer non-Japanese fans who prod him about it the better. You know how Japanese creators tend to be.

Quick question: Would anyone here mind poking WAリでし (Twitter) about the pending closure of Geocities in Japan? It's not exactly new news, and it's possible (likely, even) that he has already seen the notice, but it has been bugging me... his Panel de Pon site is hosted there, and it'd be a shame for anything be lost.

This is one of the reasons Webarchive exists, especially when it comes to pages not working or a lost revision.

 

[11th]

N N. Onymous : I understand. I'm not saying "swarm him", of course, just that it might not hurt for one person to send him the news link with a question mark or some such.

To clarify, this isn't about getting the site hosted somewhere else -- that's what things like the Internet Archive exist for -- just making sure that he has a chance to back things up for his own use. I've lost my fair share of work over the years due to hardware failing/breaking and multiple sites going down with no notice, and it has never been a particularly fun experience.

 

[StarDustStorm]

N N. Onymous : I understand. I'm not saying "swarm him", of course, just that it might not hurt for one person to send him the news link with a question mark or some such.

To clarify, this isn't about getting the site hosted somewhere else -- that's what things like the Internet Archive exist for -- just making sure that he has a chance to back things up for his own use. I've lost my fair share of work over the years due to hardware failing/breaking and multiple sites going down with no notice, and it has never been a particularly fun experience.

I remember an old Lip Brawl mod model that was lost... I would still want to download it despite being an older version.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=206746
This is one of many lost Brawl mods, but the less popular ones are to be lost.

Sm4sh mods don't have much of a problem since it's hosted on GameBanana & typically Brawl hacks can be taken down without notice. This happens a lot of the time.

 

[Jyl]

Quick question: Would anyone here mind poking WAリでし (Twitter) about the pending closure of Geocities in Japan? It's not exactly new news, and it's possible (likely, even) that he has already seen the notice, but it has been bugging me... his Panel de Pon site is hosted there, and it'd be a shame for anything be lost.

From what I know, the guy is pretty smart, and I'm pretty sure he's aware of this.
Normally site owners should get notified if a server is about to expire, to warn to back up and move or some stuff like that. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't now would it?

I remember an old Lip Brawl mod model that was lost... I would still want to download it despite being an older version.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=206746
This is one of many lost Brawl mods, but the less popular ones are to be lost.

Sm4sh mods don't have much of a problem since it's hosted on GameBanana & typically Brawl hacks can be taken down without notice. This happens a lot of the time.

I can't believe I missed this. I wish I saw it.

 

[Luigifan18]

Eh, I lost some stuff when groups when down on Pokémon Online. Not a lot, as I backed up all my Pokémon concepts, but I did lose my Mega Evolution concepts and custom types.

Anyway, how do you guys think Panel de Pon would measure up as a third game mode in Puyo Puyo Tetris? I've heard that Puyo Puyo tends to clobber Tetris in low-level play and Tetris tends to clobber Puyo Puyo in high-level play, so I'm wondering where Panel de Pon would fit in there. (Also, how would its distinction between combos and chains function? Would we see ridiculous things like individual Nuisance Puyos/garbage Tetromino blocks being dropped?)

 

[Jyl]

Eh, I lost some stuff when groups when down on Pokémon Online. Not a lot, as I backed up all my Pokémon concepts, but I did lose my Mega Evolution concepts and custom types.

Anyway, how do you guys think Panel de Pon would measure up as a third game mode in Puyo Puyo Tetris? I've heard that Puyo Puyo tends to clobber Tetris in low-level play and Tetris tends to clobber Puyo Puyo in high-level play, so I'm wondering where Panel de Pon would fit in there. (Also, how would its distinction between combos and chains function? Would we see ridiculous things like individual Nuisance Puyos/garbage Tetromino blocks being dropped?)

What a random question lol.
I think Panel de Pon's puzzle gameplay is just too different to the other two puzzles, as the blocks rise instead of fall. Seeing a collab would be too werid.
Seeing a mash up would be weirder. How would you combine Panel de Pon and Puyo Puyo?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Quick question: Would anyone here mind poking WAリでし (Twitter) about the pending closure of Geocities in Japan? It's not exactly new news, and it's possible (likely, even) that he has already seen the notice, but it has been bugging me... his Panel de Pon site is hosted there, and it'd be a shame for anything be lost.

Would this closure affect sites like the old Japanese sites of Smash 64 and Melee? If those are lost, it would be extremely unfortunate.

 

[Deleted member]

I remember an old Lip Brawl mod model that was lost... I would still want to download it despite being an older version.
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=206746
This is one of many lost Brawl mods, but the less popular ones are to be lost.

Rest assured, you two missed nothing really noteworthy. I'm 90% sure I still have it somewhere, but I'm not gonna re-upload it, as it's something of an old shame of mine, sorry. It was a way too high poly model for Brawl that was cobbled together from various sources and lagged when too many were on screen. I think you can see it in my old Popples video?

 

[Jyl]

Rest assured, you two missed nothing really noteworthy. I'm 90% sure I still have it somewhere, but I'm not gonna re-upload it, as it's something of an old shame of mine, sorry. It was a way too high poly model for Brawl that was cobbled together from various sources and lagged when too many were on screen. I think you can see it in my old Popples video?

Thanks. I'll look for it on my own later.

 

[StarDustStorm]

As much as you support Lip, most Puzzle League fans would want a new installment starring the Yoshi, Pokemon or another popular brand. Heck, most people hacked Tetris Attack into their SNES instead of Panel de Pon. People are annoyed that TA isn't on VC because Henk Rogers regrets giving Nintendo permission, which was the reason it could never be released on VC.
Basically the people who like the Puzzle League rebrands are currently more vocal than wanting the fairies to be localized. The Puzzle League Series is also more popular than Panel de Pon in Japan. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2005-01-09 2018-10-09&q=/m/0n9tg,/m/02vjqp,/m/03k8h_
The fairies are the least popular skin of the series. However, keep in mind in the more recent ones, Panel de Pon is the most one overall, but I know there's still people scratching their heads on wtf it is.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=/m/0n9tg,/m/02vjqp,/m/03k8h_

But since localization costs money if they decide to rebrand a series when bringing a game to another region, Nintendo really only has one decision on how they release a game for all regions. Of course, not everyone in Japan likes the fairies, (and would prefer Yoshi or Pokemon - its the minority in that region) but it is the most popular choice for them. Outside of Japan, its either Yoshi or Pokemon.

For speedrunning the Panel de Pon series, the ones with fairies are automatically less viable to speedrun due to the Ais being harder in Tetris Attack and Pokemon Puzzle League having an extra stage since Mewtwo has no equivalent.
But if they don't have characters again, then a story mode wouldn't be able to be in the game again. If they do use characters but not the fairies, they would have to deal with already established continuity in more popular brands. The fairies design however would have the potential to expand the series the most; I think they can at least take elements that worked in previous Pdp games such as the Garbage mode (which was mysteriously absent in Pdp GC and Pokemon Puzzle League), and the recent Candy mode mechanic in Animal Crossing Puzzle League. I don't think touch controls will work at all due to the general speed of the Pdp games. They could also reference some of the reskinned games via music which was done with a couple of Pdp GC songs (The stage clear theme in TA/the Yoshi theme portion in the ending theme of the GB version), Puyo Puyo actually has the Mean Bean Machine Exercise theme arranged in the games.

You know since Pdp GBA in 2005, they've removed the faces off of the Panels and made them become lifeless since...

 

[NukeA6]

As much as you support Lip, most Puzzle League fans would want a new installment starring the Yoshi, Pokemon or another popular brand. Heck, most people hacked Tetris Attack into their SNES instead of Panel de Pon. People are annoyed that TA isn't on VC because Henk Rogers regrets giving Nintendo permission, which was the reason it could never be released on VC.
Basically the people who like the Puzzle League rebrands are currently more vocal than wanting the fairies to be localized. The Puzzle League Series is also more popular than Panel de Pon in Japan. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2005-01-09 2018-10-09&q=/m/0n9tg,/m/02vjqp,/m/03k8h_
The fairies are the least popular skin of the series. However, keep in mind in the more recent ones, Panel de Pon is the most one overall, but I know there's still people scratching their heads on wtf it is.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=/m/0n9tg,/m/02vjqp,/m/03k8h_

But since localization costs money if they decide to rebrand a series when bringing a game to another region, Nintendo really only has one decision on how they release a game for all regions. Of course, not everyone in Japan likes the fairies, (and would prefer Yoshi or Pokemon - its the minority in that region) but it is the most popular choice for them. Outside of Japan, its either Yoshi or Pokemon.

For speedrunning the Panel de Pon series, the ones with fairies are automatically less viable to speedrun due to the Ais being harder in Tetris Attack and Pokemon Puzzle League having an extra stage since Mewtwo has no equivalent.
But if they don't have characters again, then a story mode wouldn't be able to be in the game again. If they do use characters but not the fairies, they would have to deal with already established continuity in more popular brands. The fairies design however would have the potential to expand the series the most; I think they can at least take elements that worked in previous Pdp games such as the Garbage mode (which was mysteriously absent in Pdp GC and Pokemon Puzzle League), and the recent Candy mode mechanic in Animal Crossing Puzzle League. I don't think touch controls will work at all due to the general speed of the Pdp games. They could also reference some of the reskinned games via music which was done with a couple of Pdp GC songs (The stage clear theme in TA/the Yoshi theme portion in the ending theme of the GB version), Puyo Puyo actually has the Mean Bean Machine Exercise theme arranged in the games.

You know since Pdp GBA in 2005, they've removed the faces off of the Panels and made them become lifeless since...
View attachment 168975
View attachment 168976

If true, ouch! Arle Nadja really is Lip's only hope at this point but I already knew that.

 

[Jyl]

That's not really a fair comparison, since Pokemon is freaking HUGE
Just slap Pokemon onto any brand and it sells like hotcakes. It's unfair

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think it's weird to see how Americans despise fairies.
Are they threatening their masculinity? Ahaha, I don't know, just think it's funny how both Lip and Tingle is being shot down hard by America.

Probably, seeing as even Betilla didn't get a trophy in 4.

That's not really a fair comparison, since Pokemon is freaking HUGE
Just slap Pokemon onto any brand and it sells like hotcakes. It's unfair

Pokémon is so big that Game Freak can't do much else. And it's clear from the relatively few amounts of new added Pokémon per generation lately that they're burning out and need a break, badly.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Probably, seeing as even Betilla didn't get a trophy in 4.



Pokémon is so big that Game Freak can't do much else. And it's clear from the relatively few amounts of new added Pokémon per generation lately that they're burning out and need a break, badly.

Isn't it why I saw a Game Freak developed game that isn't Pokémon in the September direct?

 

[Jyl]

Pokémon is so big that Game Freak can't do much else. And it's clear from the relatively few amounts of new added Pokémon per generation lately that they're burning out and need a break, badly.

That and the lazy amount of contents and watered down gameplay.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Isn't it why I saw a Game Freak developed game that isn't Pokémon in the September direct?

Yeah, chances are Town will be the only different thing from them for a while.

 

[StarDustStorm]

If true, ouch! Arle Nadja really is Lip's only hope at this point but I already knew that.

Puyo Puyo is more important to the history of video games than Panel de Pon, and action puzzle games in general. I really think Arle would open the doors for Action Puzzle Game characters, though there isn't as much action puzzle characters that are nearly as popular as her. Without Puyo Puyo, Panel de Pon wouldn't even exist. Her moveset would be much easier to create compared to Lip.
Even if you had a visual moveset for Lip, it doesn't mean it would be that easy to play with.
To be honest, I want Arle more than Lip but its mainly because she has personality. Panel de Pon doesn't even have any kind of cutscenes compared to Puyo Puyo in the games. (Which the first Puyo Puyo game has actually done before Pdp released) The losing sprites in the GB (and cutscenes) are the closest thing you really see expression in Panel de Pon.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm sorry to say this, Stardust, but if complaining about how Lip and Panel de Pon aren't popular anywhere and never will be, and how Lip will never be in Smash, and how Arle and Puyo Puyo are so much better than Panel de Pon, and so much more deserving of being in Smash in every single way, is all you have to offer anymore, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. It's dragging down the mood of the thread and I won't have it.

 

[MasterRosie]

Puyo Puyo is more important to the history of video games than Panel de Pon, and action puzzle games in general. I really think Arle would open the doors for Action Puzzle Game characters, though there isn't as much action puzzle characters that are nearly as popular as her. Without Puyo Puyo, Panel de Pon wouldn't even exist. Her moveset would be much easier to create compared to Lip.
Even if you had a visual moveset for Lip, it doesn't mean it would be that easy to play with.
To be honest, I want Arle more than Lip but its mainly because she has personality. Panel de Pon doesn't even have any kind of cutscenes compared to Puyo Puyo in the games. (Which the first Puyo Puyo game has actually done before Pdp released) The losing sprites in the GB (and cutscenes) are the closest thing you really see expression in Panel de Pon.

While you do have some points, I don’t exactly think it would be fair to include a 3rd party puzzle char without Nintendo’s own. Yes, PdP is in a purgatorial state right now, and Puyo Puyo isn’t, BUT putting Lip in and then Arle would set their footing on equal grounds. (And increase chances of PdP taking off from there like Puyo Puyo, which is something I know every PdP fan wants) I would personally like seeing both in Smash as another to situation, but to a lesser extent since Nintendo and Sega are buddy-buddy now. If they were to be included, I could see Lip being in the base roster, then Arle as possible DLC. If Sakurai did this, Nintendo fans would acknowledge Lip on her own first, then having Arle in would make Nintendo fans realize she was meant to be Nintendo’s answer to Arle.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I'm sorry to say this, Stardust, but if complaining about how Lip and Panel de Pon aren't popular anywhere and never will be, and how Lip will never be in Smash, and how Arle and Puyo Puyo are so much better than Panel de Pon, and so much more deserving of being in Smash in every single way, is all you have to offer anymore, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. It's dragging down the mood of the thread and I won't have it.

I know I'm a bit too harsh but the lack of installments with fairies compared to Puyo Puyo's games is definitely an unfair comparison since its obvious what game gets to evolve over time. Panel de Pon wasn't able to evolve as a result of not trying to do drastic region differences, so Nintendo even decided to do the reskins in Japan for some reason. It's not like Pdp can't get suggestions from Puyo to improve the series.
I'm sure any players who were Puyo Puyo & Panel de Pon fans in that region were thrown off by the rebranding especially in Planet Puzzle League/and the GBA game because of the lack of advertising of the characters, Lip and Pupuri are in the respective games but they are not told that they were in the game at all.

While you do have some points, I don’t exactly think it would be fair to include a 3rd party puzzle char without Nintendo’s own. Yes, PdP is in a purgatorial state right now, and Puyo Puyo isn’t, BUT putting Lip in and then Arle would set their footing on equal grounds. (And increase chances of PdP taking off from there like Puyo Puyo, which is something I know every PdP fan wants) I would personally like seeing both in Smash as another to situation, but to a lesser extent since Nintendo and Sega are buddy-buddy now. If they were to be included, I could see Lip being in the base roster, then Arle as possible DLC. If Sakurai did this, Nintendo fans would acknowledge Lip on her own first, then having Arle in would make Nintendo fans realize she was meant to be Nintendo’s answer to Arle.

We haven't heard Sakurai say anything about Panel de Pon since Meteoes, so we don't know how he feels about the series right now in the present moment.

Fighting game series did have a segment where they had DLC outfits of the Miis and Ryu. Heihachi was considered as a fighter in Sm4sh but was cut due to the complexity of his moveset. (Idk how high he was in the ballot, but he was voted less than Ryu - though he was considered before the ballot started) I know even a dead fighting game series like Virtua Fighter was even advertised as Mii Fighter DLC in Sm4sh. They can do the same strategy with Puzzle characters too, especially the underepresented ones such as Dr. Mario (which doesn't have a home stage), & Yoshi's Cookie.

Its certainly possible he can consider Lip, a less voted character compared to Arle for a playable role in Smash. But the lack of Lip in any Japanese Sm4sh/Ultimate related polls is something different compared to previous games since she has appeared previously. At least there is a Japanese Pdp community that we know exists. Its really only if he gets that sudden skepticism issue consideration on the reason not to include a specific characters.

We don't know if he has the same issue with Lip in Melee and goes with, "how many people know her again". Its not a good route to go, it doesn't matter if people outside Japan like the Puzzle League series and it would be more like negating that part of a Nintendo fanbase of that series by not having a character that represents that series regardless of weather or not they know or don't want her in Smash.

She may not be "the familiar character" but her assests such as her Panels and Garbage block will be familiar to anyone who played the Puzzle League series. So I don't think he actually knows where to draw the line of familiarity for her. Its obvious from the start that her moveset would already be a representation of the whole series.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm sorry to say this, Stardust, but if complaining about how Lip and Panel de Pon aren't popular anywhere and never will be, and how Lip will never be in Smash, and how Arle and Puyo Puyo are so much better than Panel de Pon, and so much more deserving of being in Smash in every single way, is all you have to offer anymore, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. It's dragging down the mood of the thread and I won't have it.

To be fair, you have had a part in dragging down the mood of the thread a couple of times.

 

[RouffWestie]

[Quote: Every post pitting Arle against Lip for some reason]
Arle Nadja does not impact Lip's chances. A puzzle "rep" is not required. There isn't a quota to be filled. They would get in on their own merits. Arle Nadja is possible for her own reasons. Lip is impossible for her own reasons.
are both RPG protagonists chosen on their own merits, and added in the same game. An RPG "rep" was not required. One did not get in before the other because they were more important to their genre in gaming history. (In fact, the "less popular" first-party RPG protagonist was in the game before the third-party RPG protagonist, who is, "more important to gaming history.")

Puyo Puyo is more important to the history of video games than Panel de Pon, and action puzzle games in general. I really think Arle would open the doors for Action Puzzle Game characters, though there isn't as much action puzzle characters that are nearly as popular as her. Without Puyo Puyo, Panel de Pon wouldn't even exist. Her moveset would be much easier to create compared to Lip.
Even if you had a visual moveset for Lip, it doesn't mean it would be that easy to play with.
To be honest, I want Arle more than Lip but its mainly because she has personality. Panel de Pon doesn't even have any kind of cutscenes compared to Puyo Puyo in the games. (Which the first Puyo Puyo game has actually done before Pdp released) The losing sprites in the GB (and cutscenes) are the closest thing you really see expression in Panel de Pon.

There's an Arle Nadja support thread right here https://smashboards.com/threads/arle-nadja-puyo-popper-extraordinaire-new-management.446578/
If you want to post about her, you can go there. You don't need to bring her up in an unrelated character's support thread.

While you do have some points, I don’t exactly think it would be fair to include a 3rd party puzzle char without Nintendo’s own. Yes, PdP is in a purgatorial state right now, and Puyo Puyo isn’t, BUT putting Lip in and then Arle would set their footing on equal grounds. (And increase chances of PdP taking off from there like Puyo Puyo, which is something I know every PdP fan wants) I would personally like seeing both in Smash as another to situation, but to a lesser extent since Nintendo and Sega are buddy-buddy now. If they were to be included, I could see Lip being in the base roster, then Arle as possible DLC. If Sakurai did this, Nintendo fans would acknowledge Lip on her own first, then having Arle in would make Nintendo fans realize she was meant to be Nintendo’s answer to Arle.

I don't believe there's a puzzle "rep" quota as I stated before, but even if it did, Nintendo would already have their own puzzle "rep" before the 3rd party

 

[MasterRosie]

I don't believe there's a puzzle "rep" quota as I stated before, but even if it did, Nintendo would already have their own puzzle "rep" before the 3rd party

Dr. Mario was never intended to be Nintendo’s answer to Arle, tho. Lip was. The similarities between Lip and Arle are there. (Plus, knowing Sakurai’s history with clones, he originally slapped him in there because he’s easy to program, not really because he came from a puzzle title. Lip would be included for a puzzle char tho, since she would be 100% unique.) I never really pitted Lip against Arle, it’s that if they did make it in, it would be more logical to add Lip first. I apologize if my initial comment made it seem like I did tho, I would happily accept both. I don’t think there needs to be a quota, but in the situation where Sakurai did decide to add them both in for a unique puzzle characters, I could see him go about it this way.

 

[N. Onymous]

If relevancy is the only thing that matters to get a character in Smash Bros., as it never has been (except for SSB4), then sure, put Arle in the game. But I really feel like Smash Bros. is best when it's a celebration of Nintendo's history, not just video games in general, and that's the way it should stay.