The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And people don't know Lip even exists. They can't know if she isn't shown in various games. This is just about her getting recognition. A trophy does that. An AT would definitely get more attention towards her for being playable in Smash, but it wouldn't necessarily make people care about her game. A Trophy has information on the game itself, including the series' name. This can help get some love for the game itself.

There's more than one way to gather attention. Having both an AT and regular Trophy would be perfect for gathering attention if it isn't a playable appearance. They both have different effects on the fans, after all.

 

[NukeA6]

Here's the thing, every assist trophy has a trophy (or at least in Brawl they did) plus, trophy-collecting is just a minor distraction in Smash Bros since they're all virtual trinkets in the end. Not exactly a good way to get recognition.

Having items on is still the most common way to play Smash Bros, yes? Summon items have been the most popular and fun items since Smash 64.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Given how like 80% of Assist Trophies have garnered some support, with some like Isaac, Lyn and Takamaru reaching massive levels, I think it’s safe to assume that people see a character in motion and easily envision them as playable.

Hell, with this game it appears to be the other way around - taking highly supported characters and making them into ATs to placate their fanbases.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's the thing, every assist trophy has a trophy (or at least in Brawl they did) plus, trophy-collecting is just a minor distraction in Smash Bros since they're all virtual trinkets in the end. Not exactly a good way to get recognition.

Having items on is still the most common way to play Smash Bros, yes? Summon items have been the most popular and fun items since Smash 64.

You make it sound like nobody cares about trophies or anything like that. Trophies are the correct way to inform people about the games they're from. AT's can't really do that as they don't provide actual information besides what the character looks like and maybe how they play.

Also, I can't really confirm the AT = Trophy thing without literally going to over 50 different pages. But yeah, generally AT's have Trophy appearances too. It makes sense. Why not use the model twice? Both are good, but if you're focusing on just getting people to know the character and games, AT's are not needed for that. All AT's do is show how they work within Smash itself, not within their own universe or give any serious information about their own universe to begin with. It doesn't matter how many people have items on. It doesn't even tell them the name of the character. That means they can't do any research on them. They either have to already be on a website itself(Smash Dojo or the Smash Fanwikis) or have to have Trophies to do any legitimate research. And it makes way more sense to have it in-game first, since that's what you're trying to show off, fully who they are.

Trophies are still a huge part of Smash and them being collected is the norm. People do actually go for it for completion. Especially considering they need to to unlock all the content in any given Smash game just for things like regular Multiplayer options. That or collect a number of songs. They're an important part to getting all the basic gameplay things to fully enjoy the game. And always were. They're just that important to Smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

Given how like 80% of Assist Trophies have garnered some support, with some like Isaac, Lyn and Takamaru reaching massive levels, I think it’s safe to assume that people see a character in motion and easily envision them as playable.

Hell, with this game it appears to be the other way around - taking highly supported characters and making them into ATs to placate their fanbases.

...As a huge supporter of Bomberman and Krystal in Smash, I don't think "placate" is the right word... and then there's the fanbases for Waluigi and Ashley.

(Granted, I am on some level glad that Bomberman and Krystal are in the game, rather than being flat-out ignored and relegated to mere Easter Eggs, respectively, like in Brawl and Smash 4 (Melee and Smash 64 didn't have any third-party content and didn't really pay much attention to post-2000 content, so I'm not regarding those). But I would have vastly preferred that Bomberman and Krystal be playable.)

 

[StarDustStorm]

...As a huge supporter of Bomberman and Krystal in Smash, I don't think "placate" is the right word... and then there's the fanbases for Waluigi and Ashley.

(Granted, I am on some level glad that Bomberman and Krystal are in the game, rather than being flat-out ignored and relegated to mere Easter Eggs, respectively, like in Brawl and Smash 4 (Melee and Smash 64 didn't have any third-party content and didn't really pay much attention to post-2000 content, so I'm not regarding those). But I would have vastly preferred that Bomberman and Krystal be playable.)

They are pretty lucky because look at Lip, she hasn't even appeared in the series despite a small amount of references to her in the series. Krystal and Bomberman at least got an appearance in the game.

 

[N. Onymous]

Again, #justiceforlip. We've got to spread this around as much as we can, or Panel de Pon will stay dead with a single item to its name while edgelord games like Xenoblade 2 and Daemon X Machina (plus overrated crap like Fortnite) will get massive representation. Smash Bros. should be more than just stuff that appeals to teenage boys and young men, because that's what Nintendo is too.

 

[MasterRosie]

It would be funny if we’re all doom and gloom on her chances, but Sakurai’s all like: “eh....screw it” and puts her in anyways. And the smash community is in a sheer state of confusion from people who don’t know who she is, and praise from those of us who do know Lip.
(If you think about it, it would be the whole Marth/Roy thing all over again.)

 

[NukeA6]

You make it sound like nobody cares about trophies or anything like that. Trophies are the correct way to inform people about the games they're from. AT's can't really do that as they don't provide actual information besides what the character looks like and maybe how they play.

Also, I can't really confirm the AT = Trophy thing without literally going to over 50 different pages. But yeah, generally AT's have Trophy appearances too. It makes sense. Why not use the model twice? Both are good, but if you're focusing on just getting people to know the character and games, AT's are not needed for that. All AT's do is show how they work within Smash itself, not within their own universe or give any serious information about their own universe to begin with. It doesn't matter how many people have items on. It doesn't even tell them the name of the character. That means they can't do any research on them. They either have to already be on a website itself(Smash Dojo or the Smash Fanwikis) or have to have Trophies to do any legitimate research. And it makes way more sense to have it in-game first, since that's what you're trying to show off, fully who they are.

Trophies are still a huge part of Smash and them being collected is the norm. People do actually go for it for completion. Especially considering they need to to unlock all the content in any given Smash game just for things like regular Multiplayer options. That or collect a number of songs. They're an important part to getting all the basic gameplay things to fully enjoy the game. And always were. They're just that important to Smash.

You gotta keep casuals in mind. How many of them do you think are gonna try a new game based on a trophy's information vs. seeing Takamaru and Ray tear someone up in a multiplayer match?

Again, #justiceforlip. We've got to spread this around as much as we can, or Panel de Pon will stay dead with a single item to its name while edgelord games like Xenoblade 2 and Daemon X Machina (plus overrated crap like Fortnite) will get massive representation. Smash Bros. should be more than just stuff that appeals to teenage boys and young men, because that's what Nintendo is too.

C'mon, really? How is Xenoblade edgey? It's the furthest thing from it and I dare mention that Elma, Fiora, and Pyra (who aren't male, BTW) are a lot more interesting than Lip will ever be. And you know Nintendo isn't grimdark when they added Daisy and Isabelle in and changed Zelda to her second most light-hearted incarnation yet. If that's not enough, some of the most requested characters for the game include Bandana Dee, Chibi-Robo, various Pokemon, Geno, Dixie Kong, etc.

 

[N. Onymous]

C'mon, really? How is Xenoblade edgey?

It's certainly much edgier than much other Nintendo games. The scripts of X and 2 have quite a few words that can't be used on this forum, and 2 goes all in on the sexual humor on top of that.

I dare mention that Elma, Fiora, and Pyra (who aren't male, BTW) are a lot more interesting than Lip will ever be.

And now you're just being inflammatory for the sake of it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You gotta keep casuals in mind. How many of them do you think are gonna try a new game based on a trophy's information vs. seeing Takamaru and Ray tear someone up in a multiplayer match?

They aren't going to try anyone's game if they don't know what it is.

That is keeping casuals in mind. AT's don't tell us what games they are. They represented the character at best, but tell us jack-all about who they are. This has nothing to do with casuals or competitive. The trophies are requirements to actually learn who the character or what game they're from. AT's are only ultimately good for getting people interested in a character for playable options. It does not have the ability to actually make them interested in their actual games. Casuals go for trophies too, so that's not really a good point either.

 

[NukeA6]

It's certainly much edgier than much other Nintendo games. The scripts of X and 2 have quite a few words that can't be used on this forum, and 2 goes all in on the sexual humor on top of that.

Both Kirby and Donkey Kong had a part of a level resembling a woman in a bra and panties. Fire Emblem 4 was the closest Nintendo ever had to being Game of Thrones as it had

Spoiler

most of the cast getting killed off, lots of betrayal, a slutty character with questionable incest relationship with her brother, suicide, etc.

. The Earthbound series is arguably even darker especially in Mother 3.

And now you're just being inflammatory for the sake of it.

I felt it was necessary because you're acting like Panel de Pon is the only thing not male-centered when in reality, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Zelda, and Final Fantasy prove otherwise. I've even known plenty of female fans of games that are far more violent than what you think is edgey.

 

[N. Onymous]

My point is, the fewer newcomers from games with realistic or pseudo-realistic artstyles make it into Smash, the better. It paints a very inaccurate portrait of what Nintendo as a company is.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

My point is, the fewer newcomers from games with realistic or pseudo-realistic artstyles make it into Smash, the better. It paints a very inaccurate portrait of what Nintendo as a company is.

That's fair, except that people still think Nintendo is a kiddie company. Even motherfrigging MadWorld did nothing to convince people otherwise.

So, I don't think there would need to be much worry about that.

 

[N. Onymous]

That's fair, except that people still think Nintendo is a kiddie company. Even motherfrigging MadWorld did nothing to convince people otherwise.

And that's exactly why we need newcomers from sweet, lighthearted series, like Isabelle, Inkling, and yes, Lippy too. Nintendo has built a reputation for themselves as being a company who primarily puts out works intended for all audiences (kids, teens, adults, men and women alike), when the PlayStation and Xbox are firmly focused on teenage boys and men. They'd do well not to alienate the same fanbase they've built up over the years.

 

[GoodGrief741]

...As a huge supporter of Bomberman and Krystal in Smash, I don't think "placate" is the right word... and then there's the fanbases for Waluigi and Ashley.

(Granted, I am on some level glad that Bomberman and Krystal are in the game, rather than being flat-out ignored and relegated to mere Easter Eggs, respectively, like in Brawl and Smash 4 (Melee and Smash 64 didn't have any third-party content and didn't really pay much attention to post-2000 content, so I'm not regarding those). But I would have vastly preferred that Bomberman and Krystal be playable.)

Maybe placated isn’t the right word, but you know what I mean. While it’s not a point of view shared by everyone, I think many agree that an Assist Trophy is better than a trophy is better than nothing.

Also lmao at Xenoblade 2 being edgy.

 

[N. Onymous]

While it’s not a point of view shared by everyone, I think many agree that an Assist Trophy is better than a trophy is better than nothing.

Where do items fall on this scale?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Where do items fall on this scale?

Heh, not many characters get represented solely by items. Ours is certainly a unique situation. I’d say, since the character itself isn’t seen, worse than a trophy?

Then again, an item does at least kind of convey an idea of what a character could do.

So maybe like equal to a trophy? I know for a fact that, at the very least, Lip’s Stick has bred more Lip supporters than, say, Kyle Hyde’s trophy did for him.

 

[N. Onymous]

Heh, not many characters get represented solely by items. Ours is certainly a unique situation. I’d say, since the character itself isn’t seen, worse than a trophy?

Then again, an item does at least kind of convey an idea of what a character could do.

So maybe like equal to a trophy? I know for a fact that, at the very least, Lip’s Stick has bred more Lip supporters than, say, Kyle Hyde’s trophy did for him.

It's kind of tricky, isn't it. It has advantages over a trophy, but in some ways it's also worse.

 

[Jyl]

Again, #justiceforlip. We've got to spread this around as much as we can, or Panel de Pon will stay dead with a single item to its name while edgelord games like Xenoblade 2 and Daemon X Machina (plus overrated crap like Fortnite) will get massive representation. Smash Bros. should be more than just stuff that appeals to teenage boys and young men, because that's what Nintendo is too.

I've been doing #LipforSmash because it's more broader and simpler. Gets the message across easily.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

N N. Onymous no offense; but I really don't think hating on other franchises will help Lip get in good graces with people anymore than she already is. Take a look at the stuff Isaac and Lloyd fan's have going on. If we can build up 'alliances' or whatever you'd call them; we'd have a major leg up. Lloyd might get in DLC just cause of how many Isaac Fans are on board with him too.

 

[N. Onymous]

N N. Onymous no offense; but I really don't think hating on other franchises will help Lip get in good graces with people anymore than she already is. Take a look at the stuff Isaac and Lloyd fan's have going on. If we can build up 'alliances' or whatever you'd call them; we'd have a major leg up. Lloyd might get in DLC just cause of how many Isaac Fans are on board with him too.

None taken. It's hard not to get jealous when you've got so many mega-popular and/or recent franchises flooding into Smash at the expense of older, more obscure ones, though. But you're right--the fewer bridges we burn, the better.

I've been doing #LipforSmash because it's more broader and simpler. Gets the message across easily.

At the same time, wouldn't you agree that Lip has had a major injustice done to her by replacing her with Yoshi/Pikachu/whoever?

 

[Jurae818]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth If it was any time to give Lip a trophy, it was Melee when they made models for Pit, Balloon Fighter, all of the M2 party and Starman and the Custom Robo characters to boot. If they didn't do it then, they're not going to do so now with the streamlining of porting models from other games and posing them for a minuscule collectable. And if Lip gets a trophy, it's only going to be from her being an assist or as a playable character. I don't think people here would want the former, and casuals aren't going to give a damn about looking at the trophies. They don't care about assist trophies. Whoever is on that playable roster is who matters, anything else and they won't care.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Verde Coeden Scalesworth If it was any time to give Lip a trophy, it was Melee when they made models for Pit, Balloon Fighter, all of the M2 party and Starman and the Custom Robo characters to boot. If they didn't do it then, they're not going to do so now with the streamlining of porting models from other games and posing them for a minuscule collectable. And if Lip gets a trophy, it's only going to be from her being an assist or as a playable character. I don't think people here would want the former, and casuals aren't going to give a damn about looking at the trophies. They don't care about assist trophies. Whoever is on that playable roster is who matters, anything else and they won't care.

That wasn't the right time at all. They weren't actually porting the characters over or letting them appear in non-Japanese games. It was all ported over by replacing characters with things like Yoshi, or even Pokemon. She was intentionally made unknown to the West.

This is the first time she's finally appeared in the West, via ACNL. This is the only viable time where she actually has a Western appearance and can get a Trophy. She's not being pushed as "cannot be in the West" like during Melee, which completely changes her viability(not just as playable or AT, but she had no real chance to get a Melee trophy, especially outside of the JP version, when they're intentionally doing their best to make her an unknown in the West). It's the opposite. She literally had no real chance to do so. The other JP-only characters also weren't being outright replaced with more Western options, so they could work as options for Melee(never mind that Ayumi, for instance, was considered among many potential characters for playability. There's not really riding on the idea he considered Lip to be playable. I would hope so, but all we have is her item, which is the only real time it shows up in the West anyway) as Trophies.

Also, all of the characters you just listed... already had Western appearances. They weren't in the same boat at all. They had them before getting a Trophy. This is the best time to finally give her one, AT too if lucky.

 

[N. Onymous]

I would hope so, but all we have is her item, which is the only real time it shows up in the West anyway) as Trophies.

And after Melee they don't even mention Lip in the description of its trophy. Isn't that swell?

 

[Oracle_Summon]

And after Melee they don't even mention Lip in the description of its trophy. Isn't that swell?

Out of all the Nintendo characters, Lip has gotten the shortest end of the stick. All other characters had the graces to be properly represented as they were brought over to the West or just did not show up at all. Lip was not one of those lucky few.

 

[Jyl]

At the same time, wouldn't you agree that Lip has had a major injustice done to her by replacing her with Yoshi/Pikachu/whoever?

True, but what we ultimately want is Lip for Smash lol.

Heh, not many characters get represented solely by items. Ours is certainly a unique situation. I’d say, since the character itself isn’t seen, worse than a trophy?

Then again, an item does at least kind of convey an idea of what a character could do.

So maybe like equal to a trophy? I know for a fact that, at the very least, Lip’s Stick has bred more Lip supporters than, say, Kyle Hyde’s trophy did for him.

Lip's situation is really unique, 4 consecutive games with the only representation PdP gotten is a single item.
Well stickers for Brawl too but you know what I mean.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And after Melee they don't even mention Lip in the description of its trophy. Isn't that swell?

Pretty much. It sucks. This is the best time for her to get recognition in Smash; right now. Nintendo actually properly allowed her to be overseas. Took too long, imo. I do find it weird it wasn't even a JP-only trophy. Mind you, I know Sakurai isn't adding characters for playable if they aren't playable in non-Japanese games nowadays, or at least has qualms about it. Lucas, unlike Marth and Roy, was lucky. He wasn't going to do so if he knew Mother 3 was never going to be localized. I'm sure he would've gotten a trophy, references, etc.

So at best this could hurt Lip's playability, but nothing really is hurting her from getting at least a Trophy this time. Worst comes to shove, the Lip's Stick trophy fully mentions her and the proper Panel De Pon games. Which is still better than not giving them recognition outright, I guess. :/

 

[MasterRosie]

Lucas, unlike Marth and Roy, was lucky. He wasn't going to do so if he knew Mother 3 was never going to be localized. I'm sure he would've gotten a trophy, references, etc

...this. This right here explains why I think leaving Lip out entirely is hokey. Yes, Lucas’s game was only in Japan, but now look at the reception towards him being included. Many people love the kid, despite most being unable to play Mother 3. I know he related to series already represented by Ness, but the point is that maybe not including him would’ve been a mistake too.
And despite that, Sakurai also proved he had the guts to include Little Mac despite Japanese players not liking his inclusion that much:
https://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/
I personally think that Smash shouldn’t just be used just to make iconic fighters come together, but to start a cultural balance between characters in certain parts of the world so they have a chance to shine outside of their region of origin. I bet if people sat down to get to know Lip better, she would gain a positive reception. We’re no longer in the time period where video games are just for “burly men” and I think most people can handle a main female cast. If anyone needs proof....I never thought I’d hear myself mention this on Smashboards...but look at MLP. Look at its fandom.

 

[GoodGrief741]

...this. This right here explains why I think leaving Lip out entirely is hokey. Yes, Lucas’s game was only in Japan, but now look at the reception towards him being included. Many people love the kid, despite most being unable to play Mother 3. I know he related to series already represented by Ness, but the point is that maybe not including him would’ve been a mistake too.
And despite that, Sakurai also proved he had the guts to include Little Mac despite Japanese players not liking his inclusion that much:
https://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/
I personally think that Smash shouldn’t just be used just to make iconic fighters come together, but to start a cultural balance between characters in certain parts of the world so they have a chance to shine outside of their region of origin. I bet if people sat down to get to know Lip better, she would gain a positive reception. We’re no longer in the time period where video games are just for “burly men” and I think most people can handle a main female cast. If anyone needs proof....I never thought I’d hear myself mention this on Smashboards...but look at MLP. Look at its fandom.

Plus, Lucas’ inclusion played no small part in making Mother 3 the mascot of ‘when are we getting this game localized’.

At this point, Nintendo and Sakurai have to know they can stick whoever they want in Smash and they’ll build a fandom, so why the reluctance?

(But then I look at how some people behaved when Isabelle, an incredibly popular and famous Nintendo character, got in, and I understand where Sakurai’s fear of backlash comes from)

 

[Jyl]

I did read that Sakurai wasn't going to include Lucas had he known Mother 3 was never going to be released globally but I have never seen anyone post the source, just people parroting it.
Not that I believe Sakurai's word. I stopped believing anything from that guy's mouth when he said he didn't add too many Kirby characters in Melee because he didn't want people thinking he was biased and showing favoritism.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I did read that Sakurai wasn't going to include Lucas had he known Mother 3 was never going to be released globally but I have never seen anyone post the source, just people parroting it.
Not that I believe Sakurai's word. I stopped believing anything from that guy's mouth when he said he didn't add too many Kirby characters in Melee because he didn't want people thinking he was biased and showing favoritism.

From what I'm reading, it's more he was hesitant. However...

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

Basically, what happened during Melee repeated again. He was intending to cut Ness for Lucas, but being that Lucas wouldn't actually get his game translated, it made more sense to literally have both in to please both sides of the seas. At least, from how I understand the article.

 

[StarDustStorm]

From what I'm reading, it's more he was hesitant. However...

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

Basically, what happened during Melee repeated again. He was intending to cut Ness for Lucas, but being that Lucas wouldn't actually get his game translated, it made more sense to literally have both in to please both sides of the seas. At least, from how I understand the article.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/
No, Sakurai actually said he used Ness as a base for Lucas in both Brawl and Sm4sh when making him for DLC, plus they didn't source anything about Ness not being in the game at first. That article you provided has slight opinions, Ness' character id wouldn't be with Luigi or CF if he was based off of Lucas.

 

[GoodGrief741]

From what I'm reading, it's more he was hesitant. However...

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

Basically, what happened during Melee repeated again. He was intending to cut Ness for Lucas, but being that Lucas wouldn't actually get his game translated, it made more sense to literally have both in to please both sides of the seas. At least, from how I understand the article.

Since that article doesn’t provide any sources, and I have yet to see a single source backing up that claim, I don’t really believe Sakurai said that he wouldn’t have put Lucas in had he known Mother 3 would stay Japan-exclusive.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/
No, Sakurai actually said he used Ness as a base for Lucas in both Brawl and Sm4sh when making him for DLC, plus they didn't source anything about Ness not being in the game at first. Its a bit opinionated. Ness' character id wouldn't be with Luigi or CF if he was based off of Lucas.

That's... not how it works. Using Ness as the base and then cutting him isn't really any different from using Young Link to create Toon Link and then cutting him. That's more what the article is referring to.

Since that article doesn’t provide any sources, and I have yet to see a single source backing up that claim, I don’t really believe Sakurai said that he wouldn’t have put Lucas in had he known Mother 3 would stay Japan-exclusive.

That's not what the article states. It starts he was hesitant to add him to Brawl due to this information.

I agree the lack of sources means there's too much potential speculation here, though.

 

[Jyl]

From what I'm reading, it's more he was hesitant. However...

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2017/01/17/on-character-selection-brawl/

Basically, what happened during Melee repeated again. He was intending to cut Ness for Lucas, but being that Lucas wouldn't actually get his game translated, it made more sense to literally have both in to please both sides of the seas. At least, from how I understand the article.

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/
No, Sakurai actually said he used Ness as a base for Lucas in both Brawl and Sm4sh when making him for DLC, plus they didn't source anything about Ness not being in the game at first. Its a bit opinionated. Ness' character id wouldn't be with Luigi or CF if he was based off of Lucas.

Thanks. This just tells me Sakurai still foolishly believes no Western release=Not playable worthy for Smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That's... not how it works. Using Ness as the base and then cutting him isn't really any different from using Young Link to create Toon Link and then cutting him. That's more what the article is referring to.


That's not what the article states. It starts he was hesitant to add him to Brawl due to this information.

I agree the lack of sources means there's too much potential speculation here, though.

I know that’s not what the article says, but it’s a piece of misinformation that has spread for some reason (in fact Source Gaming were the first ones to tweet it, no sources attached).

 

[MasterRosie]

Plus, Lucas’ inclusion played no small part in making Mother 3 the mascot of ‘when are we getting this game localized’.

At this point, Nintendo and Sakurai have to know they can stick whoever they want in Smash and they’ll build a fandom, so why the reluctance?

(But then I look at how some people behaved when Isabelle, an incredibly popular and famous Nintendo character, got in, and I understand where Sakurai’s fear of backlash comes from)

That behavior behind Isabelle’s inclusion was completely unwarranted, however. It was mainly out of fear that Isaac, Geno, or whoever had their “slot” taken by her, which made 0 sense. So the backlash from Isabelle was wrong and ridiculous. Besides, a lot of that hate has subsided now, and people are just waiting for the next announcement. I honestly don’t think Sakurai should concern himself too much with backlash. It doesn’t matter who he puts or doesn’t put in the game, people will always complain, no matter what. Or maybe he isn’t that concerned about backlash due to him putting Daisy in and having Waluigi as an assist again, but who knows?
Going back to Lip tho, I do think the stereotype of “female fairies not selling” is ridiculous. We live in a time period where rainbow colored ponies has a fanbase composed of little girls, grown girls, and grown men. And said grown men are so devoted to MLP, there’s an official term for them. If Hasbro managed to pull something like that, Nintendo can’t? I mean, I know I’m comparing a cartoon to a video game franchise, but that hardly matters, considering how much of a following they have. Nintendo shouldn’t use gender stereotypes to decide whether Lip should be known outside of Japan or not. (Then we have Samus who literally breaks gender stereotypes) Who literally cares if Lip or the other fairies are female? As long as they are well written and have likable personalities, who cares? They would sell, Nintendo just needs to put effort into it. Seriously. Smash Ultimate could literally be the ticket to put PdP back on the map as its own identity. At this point, if NoA says no, they’re just out to have her fade into complete obscurity. No more excuses. Make it happen. I WILL make it happen. I won’t give up on her no matter what. Why? Because that is what a true fan of an underrated series would do. You can keep pumping out all these Mario parties or whatever nintendo, but I still think what you’re trying to sweep under your rug of lost IP’s (Especially PdP, with the amount of replacements) is just unjustified, and quite frankly, stupid.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanks. This just tells me Sakurai still foolishly believes no Western release=Not playable worthy for Smash.

Actually, it doesn't. The article is misquoted. It tells us he isn't easily going to add in JP-only characters. Takamaru, even after getting a US release, still didn't get an appearance. Beyond Fire Emblem, no new series got a playable character unless they at least had some Western appearances. Being that Lip does since New Leaf, it means she's definitely possible, but not super likely beyond a Trophy and/or AT. Not that these are bad, as they still would do a lot.

I know that’s not what the article says, but it’s a piece of misinformation that has spread for some reason (in fact Source Gaming were the first ones to tweet it, no sources attached).

Right, I was pointing out what it did say. Hesitance is different from' Lol no". I can understand the confusion for it. It's really strange. Do you mean the "Ness might be cut again" or the "wouldn't have added Lucas in" bit, btw? Those are very different points.

It does fit with his idea that "characters with no foreseeable future are lower priority" at least. That would actually explain why Ness was almost cut in Melee, and might've been almost cut in Brawl.

 

[N. Onymous]

Going back to Lip tho, I do think the stereotype of “female fairies not selling” is ridiculous. We live in a time period where rainbow colored ponies has a fanbase composed of little girls, grown girls, and grown men. And said grown men are so devoted to MLP, there’s an official term for them. If Hasbro managed to pull something like that, Nintendo can’t? I mean, I know I’m comparing a cartoon to a video game franchise, but that hardly matters, considering how much of a following they have. Nintendo shouldn’t use gender stereotypes to decide whether Lip should be known outside of Japan or not. (Then we have Samus who literally breaks gender stereotypes) Who literally cares if Lip or the other fairies are female? As long as they are well written and have likable personalities, who cares? They would sell, Nintendo just needs to put effort into it. Seriously. Smash Ultimate could literally be the ticket to put PdP back on the map as its own identity. At this point, if NoA says no, they’re just out to have her fade into complete obscurity. No more excuses. Make it happen. I WILL make it happen. I won’t give up on her no matter what. Why? Because that is what a true fan of an underrated series would do. You can keep pumping out all these Mario parties or whatever nintendo, but I still think what you’re trying to sweep under your rug of lost IP’s (Especially PdP, with the amount of replacements) is just unjustified, and quite frankly, stupid.

I'm not going to be happy if Panel de Pon has what is now the status quo for representation in SSBU. If they really don't want to give her the time of day even in the so-called Ultimate Smash game, then I'll take it as a sort of confirmation that someone at Nintendo, whether that NoJ or NoA, has it out for this series in particular and wants it to die and stay buried for some reason. But if that's the case, we'll just change their minds, won't we?