The EVO-ruleset (continued...)

[Yuna]

And? It means that your example fails. Golden Hammers have the lowest spawn rate of the whole game, combine that with the fact that they only spawn from the ground and you have very little probability to see what you described.

How the hell does it fail? I merely pointed out examples of things that can happen, I never said they'd happen all the time. But when they do happen, there's nothing you can do.

I see what your point is, but you need to stop exaggerating stuff in order to make your points more powerful... it just makes you look less credible.

Or you could get some reading comprehension. I never once claimed these things happen every single time. I'm merely pointing out they do happen no matter how much Stage Control and knowledge of items you have.

Not to mention the item that spawns isn't the hammer, but the platform that SLOWLY generates it.

I forgot about the platform. Just switch out the Golden Hammer with the Hammer and it'll all fit.

That aside, from what we do know so far, we know that containers now have a toggle, which removes the biggest complaint to ever get them removed in the first place, and defensive options have GREATLY widened, which makes it much more difficult to get the reward from a given item. The items didn't need to change. The game did. How much have the changes affected items play? We don't know yet. The game is just far too new to make that call.

You weren't around when items were first banned and you obviously haven't been paying attention. Exploding containers were just the nail in the coffin for items. The game hasn't changed so much it affects item play significantly.

This is where SWF and EVO disagree. We don't want to turn items on until such time it can be surmised no game-breaking glitches and ATs can be found that somehow make items much less broken (because as it stands now, the game hasn't changed so much itemplay is vastly different and less broken).

Second, and this is the biggest, item catching is incredibly easy to pull off by comparison to Melee. In Melee, if you weren't grounded, you air-dodge caught. That was your only choice. It was possible to do a dodgeless catch, but the timing it took made it far too dangerous to attempt. Here in Brawl, dodgeless catching is quite viable (how much more viable remains to be seen, as the game's too new. Only experience will show this fact). Adding in the fact that w/ air dodging being changed so much, coming back off the stage high is viable again, which means the terrifying edgeguarding tactics have been foiled two-fold by both the increased chance for a dodgeless catch and not having to put yourself in a position that a given item will finish you off.

Items are less broken because it takes less skill to time catching them? Y... e... a... h...

The new catching system also introduces unwanted itemcatching, a new problem.

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

Ok, The rest of your post is so asinine and repetitive I'm not gonna even bother saying the same thing over and over, but this one just plain irked me.

You weren't around when items were first banned and you obviously haven't been paying attention. Exploding containers were just the nail in the coffin for items. The game hasn't changed so much it affects item play significantly.

You have no idea what you're talking about. My join date aside, I've been in competitive Melee since TG1. I was there since the origin of items play, and I was among the frontrunners of items play in Melee since the beginning. The debate didn't even begin until after TG4, and it didn't shut items play down until TG6, when deezie finally gave in on the one argument that mattered. Had Nintendo not demanded compensation for Evo2k4, Melee would have run then WITH items and would most definitely continued that way for the rest of its lifespan at Evo, as the Cannons' view then was the same as it is today. To this day I still maintain items are competitive in Melee, as I still see the additional skillset required in items play outweigh that oh-so-scary randomness. The fact that Brawl has changed so drastically defensively has only weakened the argument to ban items, and the fact that it took so many years to finally decide to universally remove them from Melee only furthers the fact that they should return until proven universally broken.

 

[Yuna]

You have no idea what you're talking about. My join date aside, I've been in competitive Melee since TG1. I was there since the origin of items play, and I was among the frontrunners of items play in Melee since the beginning.

Then why are you talking as if exploding containers was the only reason they were banned? As SamuraiPanda has already pointed out, they were already banned before the Exploding Container argument put the final nail in the coffin for the itemnites.

The debate didn't even begin until after TG4, and it didn't shut items play down until TG6, when deezie finally gave in on the one argument that mattered.

See above.

Had Nintendo not demanded compensation for Evo2k4, Melee would have run then WITH items and would most definitely continued that way for the rest of its lifespan at Evo, as the Cannons' view then was the same as it is today.

Fortunately, it didn't. Also, SWF had banned item before that. It was already universally banned by 2003.

To this day I still maintain items are competitive in Melee, as I still see the additional skillset required in items play outweigh that oh-so-scary randomness.

Yes, I never claimed there's no skill involved. But we have to sacrifice too much for items, that's my position. The additions do not make up for the subtractions.

The fact that Brawl has changed so drastically defensively has only weakened the argument to ban items, and the fact that it took so many years to finally decide to universally remove them from Melee only furthers the fact that they should return until proven universally broken.

How has Brawl changed "so drastically defensively" in regards to items? How?! You say that, others say that, but where are these drastic changes?

The only drastic change is that you are no longer unable to do anything but air control (and grab onto ledges if you reach them in time) after airdodging. That's pretty much it. Itemcatching has changed but it's not just a defensive thing, it's an offensive thing as well. And as I have already pointed out on numerous occasions, this change is not all for the better since you're now forced to pick up items during aerials and dashattacks.

The removal of reflective powershielding also removes a lot of the defensive options, not to mention that the shield goes down much faster now. You cannot spam moves on a shield since said moves will be unsafe. But you cannot spam shield against items since items can be chucked very far.

There's also Glide Tossing now and you fall slower, making you more vulnerable in the air since fastfaller will not be enough to get out of the way for items anymore (and if you airdodge an item, you'll still be vulnerable afterwards if your opponent jumps out after throwing it and aerials you... airdodges are not invincibilityfests with zero risk).

Where are these dastic changes? Stop repeating it like a mantra without ever being able to specify what they are.

 

[BigRick]

I'm tired from studying all day so I don't really feel up to responding to the rest of your post right now. I just wanted to respond to a few points here.

First off, there is no dichotomy in our community (relatively of course). While people who hated Roll Cancelling may have been a majority, say 70% of the community, we here are more than the majority of the community. We ARE the community. I'd say that a good 95% of competitive Smashers, if not more, don't even like items. This isn't about popularity. By the way, your example for Roll Canceling is exactly what the SBR does for stage banning. Just because a stage is often banned, does not mean that it is deserving for a ban. We weigh the different options and debate the matter. There is always someone who feels the opposite way in the SBR, so we're able to cover all the bases.

But the real thing I wanted to address was that you're "amazed" we didn't get a ruleset less conservative. Listen, I'm a very, very liberal person when it comes to the ruleset. I argued for items back when the game was first released. I've practiced with them, tested them, debated with others on the matter, and finally realized that items simply don't have a place in our community. And that was a hard-earned realization. Then I moved onto Smashballs. The SBR debated that one to no end. Something most people automatically assumed we would throw out instantly became a thread with nearly every post being the length of an essay. We finally concluded that Smashballs are unfortunatly not fit for the community either. And now we are actually changing some traditional rules, and trying new things. The SBR itself is NOT conservative, nor is it liberal. The SBR only tries to make the most balanced competitive experience possible. We've provided a thousand different reasons here, in the SBR itself, and on SRK as to why items are not in the interest of the most balanced competitive experience. Decisions aren't made "just because." Don't assume things when you have no idea how they're handled.

That ended up being longer than I wanted it to be. Blah, I don't even feel like debating this anymore. Nothing will come out of this and there is no point in wasting my time anymore.

I think that's one problem on SWF... the non SBRers dont know **** about what the SBR is truly thinking or what happened there. Maybe Cyntalan Maelstrom assumed some stuff, but that's just human nature, we have no way to tell if you guys are saying the truth or not. You say there were many debates, but were they won with good reasoning or simply because of majority...I simply dont know, so I never take what the Back Room says for granted, and no reasonable person should.

No offence but when very vocal ppl like Yuna are in the back room and he didnt even knew that golden hammers spawned from the floor I really dont know what to think anymore. Some other known SBR members dont look very active on the boards already so we have no idea how much impact they have there. Then we have other ppl that are very vocal and very good like M2K but when he talks about rules he may sound crazy sometimes.

Since it wouldn't be a good idea for every1 to have visual access to the Back Room, I request that you guys give regular detailed reports of what is happening over there. I'm not saying that most of the guys over there dont know their stuff, its just that every1 have their opinion, outsiders have no way to tell how bias affected everything.

So this post isn't even about the item debate, its just a request to you SamuraiPanda and the rest of the SBR... keep us updated plz

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

Then why are you talking as if exploding containers was the only reason they were banned? As SamuraiPanda has already pointed out, they were already banned before the Exploding Container argument put the final nail in the coffin for the itemnites.

You don't know. You weren't there. SamuraiPanda doesn't know. He wasn't there. The item debate waged on even ground until the argument of containers came into play. It was divided between EC and WC. Only after the argument of containers did WC ever conceed, and for a good number of them, eventually stopped bothering to play competitively. The reason you don't see but a shadow of the numbers involved in this argument on the side for items in play are simply because those who did care then don't now.

Fortunately, it didn't. Also, SWF had banned item before that. It was already universally banned by 2003.

Incorrect. TG6 began the no-item trend in the west coast, and that was late August 2004. Zero Challenge was an items tourney that ran in January 2004. Melee-FC ran July 2004. Had items. Stop spouting facts that you know nothing about.

Yes, I never claimed there's no skill involved. But we have to sacrifice too much for items, that's my position. The additions do not make up for the subtractions.

That's your opinion, mine's the contrary. Neither is a better one. Just different. I don't want, nor intend, on stopping a no-items game. I'm all for it. I just know that both can co-exist.

How has Brawl changed "so drastically defensively" in regards to items? How?! You say that, others say that, but where are these drastic changes?

Posted this already replying to SamPanda. Read for once. Though I will reply to this, as it's not been said before.

There's also Glide Tossing now and you fall slower, making you more vulnerable in the air since fastfaller will not be enough to get out of the way for items anymore (and if you airdodge an item, you'll still be vulnerable afterwards if your opponent jumps out after throwing it and aerials you... airdodges are not invincibilityfests with zero risk).

This is theorycraft. It sure might sound bad now, but this game is mere months old. We're all wet behind the ears. Give it a year or three with us running items in play, with people exploring every facet, exploiting every flaw, and all around attempting to break the game over their knee before you call foul. This is the way it's gone for every other competitive game in existence, why should this one particular case be treated differently from the rest?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I think that's one problem on SWF... the non SBRers dont know **** about what the SBR is truly thinking or what happened there. Maybe Cyntalan Maelstrom assumed some stuff, but that's just human nature, we have no way to tell if you guys are saying the truth or not. You say there were many debates, but were they won with good reasoning or simply because of majority...I simply dont know, so I never take what the Back Room says for granted, and no reasonable person should.

No offence but when very vocal ppl like Yuna are in the back room and he didnt even knew that golden hammers spawned from the floor I really dont know what to think anymore. Some other known SBR members dont look very active on the boards already so we have no idea how much impact they have there. Then we have other ppl that are very vocal and very good like M2K but when he talks about rules he may sound crazy sometimes.

Since it wouldn't be a good idea for every1 to have visual access to the Back Room, I request that you guys give regular detailed reports of what is happening over there. I'm not saying that most of the guys over there dont know their stuff, its just that every1 have their opinion, outsiders have no way to tell how bias affected everything.

So this post isn't even about the item debate, its just a request to you SamuraiPanda and the rest of the SBR... keep us updated plz

Yeah, most people get this wrong, and I don't blame you for it. Yuna isn't in the Smash Back Room. Yuna is in the Back Room. The SBR is what we're talking about; the Back Room is just a small place where people talk about random stuff and life in general. Two completely different things. And as for keeping ya'll updated, well, there really isn't much to keep you updated on. The SBR has begun working on the official ruleset, but that wont be done for awhile. I think the projected goal to finish was September, but I'm not sure about that. There really isn't any need for some sort of status update.

And by the way, I'm not "in" the SBR according to my group memberships in my profile. I gained access when I became a moderator, so it doesn't show it. Also, SBR members have purple names usually.

 

[Yuna]

You don't know. You weren't there. SamuraiPanda doesn't know. He wasn't there. The item debate waged on even ground until the argument of containers came into play. It was divided between EC and WC. Only after the argument of containers did WC ever conceed, and for a good number of them, eventually stopped bothering to play competitively. The reason you don't see but a shadow of the numbers involved in this argument on the side for items in play are simply because those who did care then don't now.

I'm sorry, this contradicts what I or SamuraiPanda have said how? SamuraiPanda said exactly that. The reason why there are so few people with good arguments for unbanning them might be because most people have switched over to being anti-items.

Incorrect. TG6 began the no-item trend in the west coast, and that was late August 2004. Zero Challenge was an items tourney that ran in January 2004. Melee-FC ran July 2004. Had items. Stop spouting facts that you know nothing about.

Hmm... apparently I was off by 1 year. I apologize. I'm sorry for not being perfect.

That's your opinion, mine's the contrary. Neither is a better one. Just different. I don't want, nor intend, on stopping a no-items game. I'm all for it. I just know that both can co-exist.

No they can't. The one is mutually exclusive to the other. You cannot have both at the same time unless you plan on running twice the number of tournaments at each event. As such, we'll have items-on tourneys and items-off tournies (if items-on catches on).

Posted this already replying to SamPanda. Read for once. Though I will reply to this, as it's not been said before.

I don't read everything posted in every thread I visit. I read what's addressed at me and then skim/read the rest. I don't have the time to read everything. Do you read everything in every single thread?

This is theorycraft. It sure might sound bad now, but this game is mere months old. We're all wet behind the ears. Give it a year or three with us running items in play, with people exploring every facet, exploiting every flaw, and all around attempting to break the game over their knee before you call foul. This is the way it's gone for every other competitive game in existence, why should this one particular case be treated differently from the rest?

Oh yeah, the game engine itself is theorycraft! Me pointing out how the game engine hasn't changed so drastically items are drastically different in Brawl is theorycraft.

But you claiming the game has changed drastically in terms of defensive options is not theorycraft at all! No, that was, of course, valid and factual argumentation! Stop being such a hypocrite. And since you said it to me just a minute ago: Stop spouting facts that you know nothing about.

At least I have the excuse of not being around playing Competitive Smash (or any Smash at all, really) back in 2003. What's your excuse for lying about the defensive options having changed so drastically in a way which makes items much more viable?

Anyway, because the game is pretty much still Melee... at least when it comes to items! Only some items are much stronger now. Are you going to demand we give each new Smash sequel 1-3 years with items on before banning them? Because, gasp, we might find a magical solution to their brokenness sometime down the road! Or we might not and then we've wasted 1-3 years playing a game where several tournaments were decided by lucky item spawns, but, we have to give items a new chances for every sequel!

Come off it. And while you're at it, why aren't you arguing all stages should be left on for at least 1-3 years until we can determine that, yes indeed, some stages are so broken we have to ban them?

 

[Pimp Willy]

Yeah, most people get this wrong, and I don't blame you for it. Yuna isn't in the Smash Back Room. Yuna is in the Back Room. The SBR is what we're talking about; the Back Room is just a small place where people talk about random stuff and life in general. Two completely different things.

Yeah, wow, thats the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. A Private General discussion forum? Yeah. Not elitist at all.

 

[Zankoku]

Actually, it's not. You need to prove yourself to be **** amazing in order to win priveleges to a green username.

 

[hova]

why does everyone care so much? we don't need EVO

we also can still win item based tournies just based off of overall skill. everyone is wasting their time in this thread. Evo won't change the rules until the SRK community decides to

SWF smash community= NFL/NBA
SRK smash community= Arena Football/WNBA

let it go

 

[Aesir]

why does everyone care so much? we don't need EVO

we also can still win item based tournies just based off of overall skill. everyone is wasting their time in this thread. Evo won't change the rules until the SRK community decides to

SWF smash community= NFL/NBA
SRK smash community= Arena Football/WNBA

let it go

Ladies and Gentleman I give you the man of the year.

 

[NES n00b]

Yeah, wow, thats the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. A Private General discussion forum? Yeah. Not elitist at all.

......coming from the guy with a "No Brawl at Evo" avatar and the one who said "Smash didn't impress us at all it bored us to tears in finals," but ok I will go ahead anyways. Sorry to who this offends, but the SBR somewhat does have a popularity contest. Thankfully, there is more to it than that. You have people who know how to play the game(s) and are intelligent discussing the topics at hand without fear of people heckling them about their decisions or idiotic posts deriding the topic. If people could read it, they would harasse the individual people who post something they do not like (same reasoning as the Philidephlia conference for the constitution those elitist *******s). I already said what would happen if you have people posting and you can imagine like say SRK's Evo thread where a bunch of people just flamed and said ******** stuff.

Not only all this, but tourney organizers can do what they want in the end really. People banned wobbling sometimes when SBR said it was legal. Some people banned stages that were ok with SBR like Viva La Smashaclsym. Their judgements are just a good general guideline that knoweldgable people made unlike say SRK where a bunch of people get to post stupid **** like they know the game.

Actually, it's not. You need to prove yourself to be **** amazing in order to win priveleges to a green username.

You mean Purple name. Green is just a bunch of people who talk about random ****. Think of it like an exclusive Pool room. I admit that this is sort of elitist, but whatever, it's not like they have any bearing on anything nor does an exclusive entry make all of the members douches really.

A side note, mods have access to both back rooms.

Edit: Who cares what Evo is doing? Let free market decide like Panda and so many others said. The only thing I have to say about their mindset is that most console and PC games have alot of options tweaked to make the game more competitive unlike arcade games where they are meant to be competitive right then and there.

 

[BigRick]

Yeah, most people get this wrong, and I don't blame you for it. Yuna isn't in the Smash Back Room. Yuna is in the Back Room. The SBR is what we're talking about; the Back Room is just a small place where people talk about random stuff and life in general. Two completely different things. And as for keeping ya'll updated, well, there really isn't much to keep you updated on. The SBR has begun working on the official ruleset, but that wont be done for awhile. I think the projected goal to finish was September, but I'm not sure about that. There really isn't any need for some sort of status update.

And by the way, I'm not "in" the SBR according to my group memberships in my profile. I gained access when I became a moderator, so it doesn't show it. Also, SBR members have purple names usually.

Oh well thanks for clarifying stuff out

Just by curiosity, could you tell me how many ppl are currently in the SBR? I have a vague idea of who might be in but knowing the number would be nice. You dont have to give me names if you want cause I see the problems that could come with it.

 

[Zankoku]

You mean Purple name. Green is just a bunch of people who talk about random ****. Think of it like an exclusive Pool room. I admit that this is sort of elitist, but whatever, it's not like they have any bearing on anything nor does an exclusive entry make all of the members douches really.

No, I mean green. I was responding to Willy's post about the normal Back Room.

 

[Aesir]

I see no problem with the smash backroom, you know why? I mean yes some people who are interested in understanding why things are banned and why this and that are like so and so. If you open it up to the public it causes problems.

Smashboards has a scrub issue and if scrubs could voice their ideas in there it wouldn't be as intelligent or good as the SBR is.

if you want access prove your worth it, thats how I see it. I mean you don't expect to know every little detail the president has with his advisors thats private but it effects you, it's the same thing with the SBR.

 

[BigRick]

I see no problem with the smash backroom, you know why? I mean yes some people who are interested in understanding why things are banned and why this and that are like so and so. If you open it up to the public it causes problems.

Smashboards has a scrub issue and if scrubs could voice their ideas in there it wouldn't be as intelligent or good as the SBR is.

if you want access prove your worth it, thats how I see it. I mean you don't expect to know every little detail the president has with his advisors thats private but it effects you, it's the same thing with the SBR.

Yes I understand what would be the consequences of making the SBR public and I mentionned that I dont want this to happen. And yes as a smash player I would like to join in but I know that I dont have all the credentials... I would nomitate some other canadian members instead.

We dont need to know every little detail that the president has with his advisors but at least he should let us the know the about State of the union... that was my only request. But since Panda says that there's not much goin on now, then it's ok, let us know when things are movin.

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, wow, thats the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. A Private General discussion forum? Yeah. Not elitist at all.

It's a place to go to discuss general things without being barraged with spam and useless topics cluttering up the board.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Hey guys, you know what would be a totally relevant thread to help advance the metagame of Brawl? Lets guess how characters smell :D Peach for top tier, but we should ask the SBR what they think.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Hey guys, you know what would be a totally relevant thread to help advance the metagame of Brawl? Lets guess how characters smell :D Peach for top tier, but we should ask the SBR what they think.

...you're being sarcastic, aren't you? As one who would be in support of this, I take offense, good sir.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Yeah, wow, thats the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. A Private General discussion forum? Yeah. Not elitist at all.

Uh... not all SBR members have access to the back room. Like I said, 2 completely different things. Hell, I don't even know how the back room started. All I know is that its a small community of people that talk like its the pool room, but you can talk about things that are much more personal. And whenever there is someone they like, they mention the person in a thread and people just talk about it till someone lets them in.There really isn't any criteria other than being liked by someone in thats already in the back room. The back room itself isn't a big deal at all. FYI its pretty quiet back there. I don't really see how its elitist...

Oh well thanks for clarifying stuff out

Just by curiosity, could you tell me how many ppl are currently in the SBR? I have a vague idea of who might be in but knowing the number would be nice. You dont have to give me names if you want cause I see the problems that could come with it.

No idea.

Hey guys, you know what would be a totally relevant thread to help advance the metagame of Brawl? Lets guess how characters smell :D Peach for top tier, but we should ask the SBR what they think.

For some very strange reason, there is actually a thread for this in the GBD. I have no idea why it was kept alive, but now its too big to close :/

 

[Pink Reaper]

For some very strange reason, there is actually a thread for this in the GBD. I have no idea why it was kept alive, but now its too big to close :/

I know, that was the joke

You might want to jump on the "Taste the characters" thread if it still open BTW.

 

[Sliq]

i think mr. wizard is a pretty cool guy. eh disregards the smash community and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[polarity]

man yuna is really stupid huh

 

[hova]

man yuna is really stupid huh

Not as stupid as SRK members

*zing*

 

[Yuna]

man yuna is really stupid huh

Yet I think few would disagree with that I'm much smarter than you. Now what does that say about you?

 

[Aesir]

So when did we start resorting to personal attacks? Lol


Lol Srk lol.

 

[Sliq]

man yuna is really stupid huh

nuh uh your the doodie face

 

[thumbswayup]

Does SRK stand for Shoryuken?

 

[Rebel581]

nuh uh your the doodie face

nuh uh u stupid cuz u have funny eyes











This thread has become amazing. Now hopefully the mods won't close it when it devolves into snappy one-liners. Come on mods, be cool. Don't close the topic >_>

 

[Yuna]

Does SRK stand for Shoryuken?

Yes it does.

 

[thumbswayup]

Ah, I started reading some of their forums before I realized they have no idea what they're talking about. Honestly, their general theory is that smash is a "king of the hill" game and the objective is to keep the opponent off the stage. Then they trashed it for having percentages instead of lifebars and basically said street fighter is so much better.

 

[Sliq]

 

[polarity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP1_J4zTZb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQaymTTAVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTiLyNv_Qtw

 

[Aesir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP1_J4zTZb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsQaymTTAVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTiLyNv_Qtw

Lol second video...

Sorry but a level 9? I know he mentioned this, but while the level 9 was chasing him down it is incredibly easy to avoid an assist and a level 9..

Try an opponite who's trying to get you, there were times where if the meta knight just did smart things it would have ended badly for the mario..


one example the metriod was right behind metaknight and mario was with in grabbing range of the meta knight, one quick grab and a back throw he would have been sucked into the metriod.

All this managed to prove is that, an assist and a level 9 are easily avoidable. >_>



Point I'm trying to make is, if you're going to try and prove something to us, don't use computers, they're stupid...>_>

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, there are ways to counter stupid people using items at bad times. What surprise! No, really, those vids prove nothing more than that some people just don't have common sense.

 

[Mike G]

Yeah, there are ways to counter stupid people using items at bad times. What surprise! No, really, those vids prove nothing more than that some people just don't have common sense.

I disagree.


I didnt know you can hit the lakitu bro or w/e that dude's name is lol


but seriously, those vids were pretty helpful. thx

 

[Ojanya]

'Nuff said.

 

[BigRick]

I disagree.

I didnt know you can hit the lakitu bro or w/e that dude's name is lol
but seriously, those vids were pretty helpful. thx

Exactly.

There was some good points in there but the first thing that Yuna does is pull out the flame thrower. What surprise!

 

[Zankoku]

I disagree.


I didnt know you can hit the lakitu bro or w/e that dude's name is lol


but seriously, those vids were pretty helpful. thx

You didn't? Lakitu's possibly the worst AT you can get, besides maybe Resetti. D:

At least Resetti is funny. D:

 

[Pink Reaper]

Wait? He never showed how to avoid Resetti D:

Lol, I got him on Delfino Plaza once and he appeared right as the stage was leaving and he just yelled "HEY WHERE DO YOU THINK YOUR GOING!" Best AT ever.