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The Elements of Brawl - Zoning, Spacing, Killing, and Surviving

D

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
If you guys want to discuss any new characters, please go to your characters' respective forums and discuss in the topics there (either I made one or someone else already made one) and then post your discussion results here. That way, things are a lot more consistent and easy to keep track of. Thanks.

These people below contributed entries to this thread. Give them a rousing round of applause (also their respective boards).
  • Anomilus - Ganondorf
  • Flayl - Bowser
  • Roager - Captain Falcon
  • bludhoundz - Diddy Kong
  • Ripple - Donkey Kong
  • bigman40, Mmac - Yoshi
  • A2ZOMG - Game and Watch
  • nash123 - Luigi
  • Ussi - Ike
  • Xiivi - Fox
  • Pokemon Trainer - Retro Gamer, Steeler36 (Squirtle)

I think, generally, it can be said Brawl is played in three different "zones":

  • On the ground, which anything done while the character is on the ground and thus does ground-based moves.
  • In the air, which is anything while the character is not touching the ground and thus does aerial attacks.
  • Off-stage, which includes things like edge-guarding, either on or off the stage, recovering, and anything that includes the ledge

I think this is something we can all agree on. This is how it has been for every Smash game. And we can see that some characters clearly excel in some areas while some don't. For the sake of brevity, I will only include the top-tier characters in Brawl (plus characters that other people have added). Also, the ratings go Amazing, Above Average, Average, Below Average, Terrible.

  • Meta Knight
    • On the ground: He ***** while he's on the floor since he has his instant jabbing, d-smash, his Shuttle Loop out of shield, his d-tilt, his f-smash, and his Tornado. Rating: Amazing
    • In the air: He ***** in the air because his aerials have great reach and good knockback or juggle ability, he still has his Tornado and Shuttle Loop, and his glide attack is very powerful. Rating: Amazing
    • Off-stage: Off-stage, he is perhaps the best gimper in the game with his n-air and Shuttle Loop. Rating: Amazing
  • Snake
    • On the ground: Snake's ground game is godly with his overpowered attacks and amazing reach and his mine game make sure he can control the field while the opponent is pinned to the floor. Rating: Amazing
    • In the air: In the air, Snake is just as powerful, but while his n-air and d-air are amazing, his other aerials are just predictable enough to make them punishable. Rating: Average
    • Off-stage: His off-stage game could be considered terrible, considering how easily he can be gimped if put in the wrong situation, but Snake has a few back-up plans, like recovering high or using his C4, to give himself a second chance. Rating: Below Average
  • King Dedede
    • On the ground: DeDeDe's ground game is very effective due to his chaingrabs and his highly effective tilts, specifically his f-tilt for spacing, his d-tilt for shield poking, and his u-tilt for an absurdly fast kill. His major flaw in this area is that his slow movement on approach makes his intentions somewhat predictable, requiring traps and mindgames to provoke the opponent into doing what he wants. Rating: Above Average
    • In the air: His aerial game is much slower, but it's still very deadly since his vertical aerials are very fast, his f-air has amazing reach, and his b-air is very fast and powerful. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: His off-stage game is wonderful, considering he can float and go as he pleases, making him a great edge-guarder. However, when he is recovering, the lack of super armor frames on the descent of his Super DeDeDe Jump can be exploited. Rating: Amazing
  • Mr. Game & Watch
    • On the ground: Game and Watch's ground game is pretty dang awesome due to his fast smashes and really quick tilts. Mainly, though, he's trying to get the opponent into the air. Rating: Average
    • In the air: It's in his aerial game where he shines, his turtle already infamous for its shield-destroying capabilities and nearly lagless landing. U-air is almost unpunishable. Rating: Amazing
    • Off-stage: Game and Watch's Up+B is unpunishable if the Game and Watch has any idea of what he's doing, and it lands without lag. He has no multiple jumps, but his aerials linger in the air, making them very dangerous ledge-guarding tools, not to mention that his n-air makes ledgecamping retardedly easy. Rating: Amazing
  • Falco
    • On the ground: Falco's ground game is stunning due to his ability to pin down people with lasers as well as the chaingrabs he has on a large portion of the cast. Rating: Above Average
    • In the air: His aerials are also pretty good, but they can be outprioritized by a lot of things. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: His edgeguarding is given a boon by his d-air, but his recovery is very predictable. Rating: Below Average
  • R.O.B.
    • On the ground: R.O.B.'s ground game is very safe in that his down-smash and tilts keep enemies away from him fairly safely, but it's very difficult for R.O.B. to kill on the ground except with his f-smash, which really isn't that powerful, or his up-smash, which has a strange hitbox that makes it somewhat predictable and difficult to time correctly. Nevertheless, it does what R.O.B. needs for them to do. Rating: Average
    • In the air: His aerials are all excellent if somewhat slow aside from his f-air. His neutral is a powerful attack that protects all around him and can be a very good killer. His b-air is a great spacer and is great for killing as well. His f-air is a comboing machine. The major flaw in R.O.B.'s aerial game is that he's weak when an enemy is right below him. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: His off-stage game is excellent due to his Robo-Burner and diverse aerials; he can either combo someone into oblivion or kill them soundly with a b-air. It also makes R.O.B. one of the best recoverers in the game. His one flaw is that his limited fuel supply does not recharge when he is holding the ledge, so if that is exploited craftily enough, the enemy can send R.O.B. to a rather embarassing death. Rating: Amazing
  • Donkey Kong
    • On the ground: DK uses his amazing tilts to knock his opponents around. DK's ground pound is also something to be feared, it has the most reach of any ground move in the game. Not only are DK's smashes good too they are ridiculously good at killing but they are powerful and very hard to punish. Don't even get me started on grounded up b, or DK punch. Rating: Amazing
    • In the air : DK has 1 answer to everything, bair. this attack is the most important attack for any DK player. hit box length, power, speed, it has it all. Uair is the second most useful aerial but not used nearly as much. Fair, dair, and nair are decent at best. not to be spammed often at all because of risk. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: DK is too good off stage. Fair, dair, and nair all come into use here. DK has every attack in his arsenal to use. Fair, and Dair both spike and are powerful. Rating: Above Average
  • Diddy Kong
    • On the ground: Diddy is combo king here. Smart opponents can fight against his ground game, but many characters will prefer to take to the air against him, due to his great ground stage control with bananas. He is also good against aerial characters thanks to the way his peanuts arc, and his fast and ok ranged dtilt. Rating: Amazing
    • In the air: Diddy is okay here. His moves aren't really fast or really ranged, but each has a good use. Bair is fast and spammable with decent knockback. Fair has a pretty good range and good knockback. Dair is a strong spike. Uair has little range but can kill off the top. Nair isn't too hot. I'm not sure what Diddy's aerial mobility is, but he also has his Diddy Hump to move left or right while in the air. Rating: Average
    • Offstage: Diddy can recover pretty far, so offstage is a decent combat zone for him. His up b spikes, in addition to becoming a possible threat if the opponent tries to hit him out of it (rogue barrels do 18% with high knockback). He isn't as safe as some characters due to a lack of range on his attacks and speed, but he has projectiles to protect himself with and decent options in general (he can also wall cling / wall jump as part of his recovery, which is helpful in getting back onstage or edgeguarding). Rating: Average
  • Fox
    • On the ground: Poor options for approaching whilst on the ground. Most approaches will be from the air or through baiting with aerials. While on the ground Fox has slightly decent options out of shield, however his best options out of shield are usually his killing moves, such as downsmash and upsmash, meaning using them would sacrifice killing potential. None of his ground moves are good for zoning. A few quick moves such as up-tilt and his grab game are his only saving graces here. Fox suffers from low range attacks with less than average priority. Rating: Below Average
    • In the air: Decent options for approaching whilst in the air. Using well spaced forward airs pose as a viable option thanks to the large amount of DI on the move. Down air is an easily punished approach, however good mix ups with the shine allow it to be viable. This is where Fox's laser game can actually be useful, as standing lasers are easily punished whilst aerial lasers are much safer and more effective. Rating: Average
    • Off-stage: Fox's recovery is good, however his ability to commit off stage for edge guarding is slim thanks to his fall speed. Fox's rising forward aerial is able to set him up for punishing an opponent attempting to recover high, however outside of this he can't set himself up off the stage well for edge guarding. Rating: Below Average
  • Bowser
    • On the ground: With a Ftilt that has a huge range, 2 very quick attacks that swat opponents away when they're too close and tons of grab release options, Bowser really shines on the ground. Rating: Above Average
    • In the air: Bowser has poor reach on all of his aerials and has a huge weak point directly beneath him, which can be countered by bowser bombing the ledge. FAir and NAir come out fast while BAir and UAir are among the most powerful of their kind. His OverB however is excellent against grounded foes who intend to shield or even dodge Bowser's aerial approach, as it has no landing lag. Rating: Below Average
    • Off-stage: Bowser has very few options off the stage. His only recovery is his UpB, which thankfully, has invincibility frames and comes out fast. Horizontal recovery usually is not a problem, but Bowser's vertical recovery is only slightly better than DK's, there are very few situations where he is able to recover after being sent downward - not necessarilly by a spike. He has good ledgehop options in his FAir and OverB and a situational one in his UpB. Rating: Below Average
  • Luigi
    • On the ground: Decent ground game, doesn't have great range on his main killing moves(D-Smash, F-Smash, N-air).F-tilt is good for spacing, up-tilt is GREAT for racking up damage, d-tilt is situationaly useful for stuff like jab->d-tilt trip->firepunch.His jab is overall one of his best moves for jab or jabx2->grab/d-smash/firepunch.His down-b is probobaly his best ground approach though it is stopped easily by any move with decent range or a projectile other than D3's waddles but it still closes distance between you and your opponent. Rating: Average
    • In the air : His air game is great, don't get me wrong but he is outclassed by several characters(MK, D3, G&W, Marth).So lets start this off, his f-air doesn't have too great of range but is usually connected easily after d-throws and when one connects you can usually chain it to any aerial other than b-air at lower percents.His d-air is a pretty awesome for kills and for finishing combos off or even starting them with d-air->nair and it does other stuff like stopping space animals phantasms.U-air is really nothing special all it does is hit people above you as it was intended.B-air is a cool move, WoP, good range, alright damage.Last but not least, n-air.N-air is my favorite move of his for several reasons; really good priority, good combo finisher and starter, his best aerial killing move, and of course breaking out of combos by using n-air.His aerial firepunch is nothing to scream about, it is not even 3/4s as strong as the grounded one.His fireball in the air is pretty cool for stopping short hopped approaches and is one of the reasons some Luigis are even beating Mks.All of his aerials and fireball can be airdodged after them in a shorthop so buffering is a must for luigi. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: Edgeguarding is a breeze for Luigi if you always have a double jump saved so you can make it back with down-b otherwise not so much unless you are close to the edge.B-air WoPs are cool for edgeguarding same with f-air.If you knock space animals off they are pretty much dead just intercept their firefox and whatever wolf does with d-air/b-air.Don't use n-air to edgegaurd as it knocks them upwards but that is common knowledge.Fireball can be used to stop recoveries.Getting back to the stage with Luigi is pretty easy as long as you mix it up and don't overdo the down-b recovery to the point where you are way above the stage and trying to get back to the ground.His Up-b is easily edge-hogged so watch out for that.Missile can get you spiked easily so only charge it as much as you, don't over due it or you could end up on stage waiting for the lag as you oppenent charges a smash attack.Use your f-air when you get knocked off stage as it's the fastest way to gain your control back. Rating: Above Average
  • Ike
    • On the ground: Ike's ground game will beat anyone whose ground game lacks range. Then Ike's jab comes into play as its his fundamental move. Rating: Above Average
    • In the air: Fair reaches out so far and nair is a great combo starter and aerial shield. Bair is fast and uair is a lingering hitbox that owns air dodging. Dair is the 4th strongest spike and also lingers and hits thru platforms. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: It's a good day to die, eh? Rating: Terrible
  • Pokemon Trainer
    • On the ground: Overall Rating: Above Average
    • In the air: Overall Rating: Average
    • Off-stage: Overall Rating: Average
    • Squirtle
      • On the ground: Very quick, good pressure, can space out of grab range well with his aerial DI, shellshifting adds a huge level of depth to his ground game. Grab range the size of 1/3 of FD and the ability to 'super wavedash' any of his smashes from over half FD's distance? Yes. Very nice. Capable of punishing a lot of things. Only thing is a lack of considerable range, although mobility can get around that obstacle. Rating: Above Average
      • In the air: Honestly, Squirtle is one of the best characters in the air. His only problem is the lack of range on some attacks. Attacks are instantaneous, little to no landing lag, great priority. His dair cancels out Meta Knight's glide attack...and continues on to hit MK, when positioned properly. The tail seems to have the most priority. Rating: Above Average
      • Off-stage: Good aerial game and Water Gun lend Squirtle to being a good gimper. When returning, Squirtle is just like most other characters. One jump, average recovery move. Withdraw is an option above the stage. The only thing is never using that second jump before a Withdraw, so that if you are hit, you still have a second jump and Waterfall. Rating: Average
    • Ivysaur
      • On the ground: Ivysaur has good and bad options. He has great range and a cool projectile, but the longest ranges attacks aren't always the strongest. His stronger attacks are particularly strong (his up-smash is the fastest in the game and it's absurdly fast) but they can be easily punished if missed. He has that awesome Bullet Seed that can trap certain characters for an absurdly long time, but it's predictable in its setup and not everyone is completely trapped. Rating: Average
      • In the air: Ivysaur has some great ranged attacks, but they're nothing special in terms of damage and knockback. His u-air and d-air and extremely powerful, but have a tiny hitbox (you have to basically be inside an opponent to do it properly). The main problem here lies in his overall awkwardness, especially in that the moves don't flow together as well as one would hope. Rating: Below Average
      • Off-stage: Ivysaur falls somewhat fast and has a terrible recovery. Bad idea to venture out here. Rating: Terrible
    • Charizard
      • On the ground: He is relatively powerful on the ground and he has great range on a lot of his moves. The problem lies in the fact that they are mostly very slow and thus very punishable. Rating: Average
      • In the air: Charizard has a lot of safe options in the air, both with his aerials (f-air and n-air being the most remarkable and his b-air as a great air-to-air option) and his Rock Smash. However, they are slow enough to be telegraphed and, if the opponent is comfortable enough in the air, can be dealt with easily. Rating: Average
      • Off-stage: Once off-stage, the speed of Charizard's aerials become a much smaller problem because his mobility compared to other characters helps off-set this. Fair is suddenly extremely dangerous. His Sky Attack suddenly becomes nearly unpunishable. His b-air becomes very deadly. However, there are characters that outclass him here simply because they are faster or more powerful. Rating: Above Average
  • Yoshi

    • On the ground: He's fairly decent on ground. Tilts start juggles, standard A combo is a GTFO move, and a way to keep pressure. Generally, this part is used for defense, and small time pressuring. Rating: Average
      In the air: Has a great set of aerials. Each one depending on the situation (all fairly flexible when you get used to using them right). Bair, Nair, and Dair are main approaches, and they vary the amount of pressure too. Uair and Fair set for killing moves. Also, best for medium amount of pressuring. Rating: Above Average
      Off-stage: Meh, I'm not that strong in this part, but it's fairly stable in his game. Eggs are either meant to force you to a certain path, or just interrupt you altogether. He can at least fight off-stage with about 2-4 aerials before needing to get back onto the stage.
      His recovery has gotten much better due to the fastest aerial speed, and from no DJC. Most of the time, the Yoshi player can recover w/o too much trouble. Even if he gets interference, DJAD goes right past them, or Egg toss to sweetspot the ledge. Any big mistakes that will get a Yoshi killed while recovering is mainly by fault of the player himself. Rating: Above Average
  • Ganondorf
    • On the ground: Ganondorf's definitely most effective while on the ground. Flame Choking puts the opponent under Ganondorf's control, and the rest of his moves are about knockback. Unfortunately though speed and range become an issue here in which most characters can outdo Ganondorf in both areas. Rating: Average
    • In the air: It tends to get rather one-dimensional here, but Ganondorf definitely does not mind meeting most of his opponents in the air, if only for a short time to deliver singular powerful blows. Rating: Average
    • Off-stage: It really depends here; Ganondor can only go off-stage for a moment, but when he does he can really trouble certain characters. Oppositely, if he's on the defensive, he quickly runs out of options. Up-B isn't all that bad since its vertical reach is pretty good and the swipe attack threatens edgehoggers into throwing off their timing. Flame Choke also threatens with a suicide KO. This is as much credit as Ganondorf's gonna get here though. Rating:Below Average
  • Captain Falcon
    • On the ground: Tilts are pretty useful, and Dsmash, but otherwise meh. Rating: Below Average
    • In the air: Uair and Nair are useful. Plus Dair and Fair are pretty good killers. Plus Bair for the stage spike. Rating: Above Average
    • Off-stage: Not bad. Flub knee to uair is a pretty beastly gimp. Also, if you can use sideB spike well, its pretty nice. Rating: Average

However, it's also important to consider the positions characters are in battle, that is how far they are away from each other. This does not assume that those characters will simply be standing in these positions, but rather that they start out at these positions and what options they have given these positions. Thus, the four positional distances can be classified as:

  • Extreme long distance: That is, far enough so that the only moves that really can do anything are long-distance projectiles. Think the length of Final Destination.
  • Long distance: That is, far enough so that the only moves that can really do anything are projectiles. Think half the length of Final Destination.
  • Medium distance: That is, far enough so that the only moves that can really do anything are projectiles and melee attack which are particularly long-ranged, such as R.O.B.'s f-tilt or DeDeDe's f-tilt.
  • Short distance: That is, close enough so that any move will hit, provided that the opposing character is so close that the starting hitbox for a projectile is behind them.

I think this is also something we can all agree on. Although all of these distances existed before, it is especially important to place emphasis on the extreme long distance spacing in Brawl because of the heightened effectiveness of projectiles. And again we shall apply these to the top tiers (plus the characters other people have done this on), except this time, the ratings will be in terms of comfort. So it ranges from Comfortable, Bearable, Uncomfortable.

  • Meta Knight
    • Extreme long distance: His fast ground speed makes it so that it's very easy for Meta Knight to close the gap and avoid any projectiles coming his way. Rating: Bearable
    • Long distance: At this point, Meta Knight can use his tornado rather effectively. A fast-reacting opponent can use a move to counter the tornado, however. Aside from that, his fast dash attacks and grabs make this a comfortable place to be. Rating: Comfortable
    • Medium distance: He can again use his tornado here, with even less chance of repercussion than at long distance. His d-tilt also goes through here quite nicely and he is at a comfortable distance for grabbing. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: Meta Knight has a looooot of options here, many of them very difficult to punish. Rating: Comfortable
  • Snake
    • Extreme long distance: Snake can approach from here, but he needs to be wary of what his opponent is doing and is vulnerable to projectile attacks as he does this. If he wants to approach, his best option is to mortar-glide, which can go through most defenses. He can crawl under some, but not all, projectiles at this distance. He can also throw a grenade from this distance, but risks having his grenade backfire on him due to a projectile forcing it to blow up in his face. He can plant a mine here relatively unpunished. Rating: Comfortable
    • Long distance: A prime distance for a dash attack or mortar-glide, but generally he wants to either be closer or farther while in this position. Rating: Bearable
    • Medium distance: Prime jabbing or f-tilting zone and a great place to do a u-tilt for the kill. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: Snake is **** here. Rating: Comfortable
  • King Dedede
    • Extreme long distance: DeDeDe has very few options here, so he must either goad the opponent to approach using Waddle-Dees, which is safe, or approach himself, which can be risky. Rating: Bearable
    • Long distance: He can still use Waddle-Dees here, although there is a much higher chance of him being punished for it. This is a relatively okay range for DeDeDe to approach. Rating: Bearable
    • Medium distance: Prime chaingrab and tilt zone. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: U-tilt zone. Rating: Comfortable
  • Mr. Game & Watch
    • Extreme long distance: Basically, Game and Watch must approach, and his average run speed makes it easy to predict his trajectory. Basically he must approach in order to make himself useful, and that can be tricky if the opponent is far enough with effective enough projectiles. On the other hand, his bucket makes a lot of projectiles more harmful to use, since it's somewhat easier to predict and capitalize on a projectile use at this distance. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: His sausages start working, but that's about it, Generally, he still wants to be closer. Rating: Bearable
    • Medium distance: This is a great place for Game and Watch to start busting out his turtle. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: The irony is that Game and Watch's attacks are bit slow when you are really close. While they are still very powerful and punishing, an opponent this close can exploit Game and Watch's lag and do some mean stuff to him. Rating: Bearable
  • Falco
    • Extreme long distance: Falco can pin down someone using lasers from a distance. No problems here. Rating: Comfortable
    • Long distance: He can still pin down people using lasers here, as well go for a hyphen-smash. Rating: Comfortable
    • Medium distance: This is a strange area. His lasers aren't very useful at this range considering they are punishable, so that's out, and many of his regular attacks still would have a hard time connecting. His best option here is the Reflector, but that's expected once a Falco is entrenched in this distance and it's often counterable by something the opponent does first. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: All sorts of stuff can finally happen; smashes, juggles, chaingrabs, you name it. Rating: Comfortable
  • R.O.B.
    • Extreme long distance: R.O.B.'s projectiles have excellent range. Generally, if he's here he can force an opponent to approach through projectile camping or he can approach the opponent aerially, both of which are only minimally risky. Rating: Comfortable
    • Long distance: This is a tricky distance for R.O.B. His projectile spamming can be punished from this distance and he can't retaliate unless he gets closer. If the R.O.B. was spam happy and the opponent managed to approach very quickly to close the gap, he'll probably be caught in one of his projectile's animations and end up being punished. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: This is a good distance for R.O.B. His f-tilt and d-tilt both have great reach, and even the last part of his d-tilt can poke an opponent. Generally, R.O.B.s in this zone want to either find an opening to get in closer or want the opponent to get away. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: The advantageousness of this depend on whether R.O.B. is in the air or on the ground. In the air, he generally fares well. On the ground, he is probably d-smashing to get the opponent off of his back. In either case, R.O.B.'s particular position is of great importance to how well he fares. Rating: Bearable
  • Donkey Kong
    • Extreme long distance: DK has absolutely no projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: Like I said before, no projectile. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: DK has 2 options for mid range and they would be ground pound and forward tilt but these are good. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: DK has every move that he can use on the ground at his disposal including bair. Rating: Comfortable
  • Diddy Kong
    • Extreme Long Distance: He has no projectiles that reach really far, unless you charge up a peanut all the way, and you can't spam this. I'll also assume a glide tossed banana does not reach an opponent at extreme long distance. Rating: Bearable
    • Long Distance: This is for Diddy. Some characters might be able to spam projectiles at him, but he has his own and he doesn't have a huge issue with closing the gap a little, especially with glide tossing which covers his movement with a moving hitbox. Rating: Comfortable
    • Medium Distance: Bananas can be thrown (backwards glide toss if you're being defensive, forward for offensive), peanuts can be used as an anti-air tool. This is his best range to begin combos at. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short Distance: He has some fast tilts (utilt, dtilt), but they aren't the most ranged or the fastest. He has a decent grab game, but he can't really start combos at this range. Rating: Bearable
  • Fox
    • Extreme long distance: Fox is easily able to deal with other long range projectile users thanks to his reflector as well as able to use his reflector in between his opponent's projectiles thanks to the speed of both the blaster and shine. Rating: Comfortable
    • Long distance: Essentially the same as his extreme long distance situation. Rating: Comfortable
    • Medium distance: Fox has a terrible dead zone when it comes to mid range. Many of Fox's moves have poor range and Fox has an ability to be easily zoned by characters such as Marth and Toon Link around this range. Fox is too close to his opponent to safely laser at this point as well. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Short distance: Fox has a few fast moves at this range, such as his jab and up tilt. Fox is able to lead into strings as well. However, many characters can easily score a grab or hit on Fox that is able to abuse his fast falling speed such as Pikachu or Sheik, which can make Fox's position difficult at this point. Rating: Bearable
  • Bowser

    • Extreme long distance: As for Bowser specific options - Bowser can approach far off targets by staying in the air as much as possible with his klaw jumps or fortressing the opponent's projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable.
    • Long distance: A Short hopped Firebreath works wonders against non-projectile foes that prefer remaining close to the ground. That's it. Rating: Uncomfortable.
    • Medium distance: While FTilt covers a great distance, it is a bit heavy on the commitment side. FSmash must be precisely spaced, as Bowser's hurtbox is carried with him as he performs the move. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: Bowser's defensive game is amazing: Fortress, jabs and grabs. Rating: Comfortable
  • Luigi
    • Extreme long distance: Luigi is at a real disadvantage here.His projectile is pretty mediocre and doesn't even go half of Final Destination.Luigis only choice is to approach his opponent.The only way to do this efficently is to mix it up with SHADs, crawls, down-b, and fireballs as your closing in and to stop other projectiles if nescessary.Overall it can get annoying. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: This is a bit easier than extreme long distance as it is more pressuring to your opponent as at this distance they have to keep on their toes.At this point you can start using your fireballs more for pressure instead of damage.Start short hopping aerials and try to force shield so you can go up and get grabs and combos in. Rating: Bearable
    • Medium distance: At medium distance you can start using your aerials to almost full potential as all of them are options at this distance.Use fireballs for damage and combos here such as fireball->grab/D-smash.Watch out for D3 and snake here, their tilts dominate this area. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: This is were the magic happens.When you are in this area it's time to relax and let your hands flow freely as you 0-60% combo people.This is were your smash moves come into effectiveness.Your tilted upwards f-smash kills pretty early and your d-smash is nice for knocking people off the edge.Up-smash shouln't be used all that much as you usually will have better options.Air combos are Luigis greatest asset, use them.Jab combos are his best options while not in the air.Don't use fireball at this distance. Rating: Comfortable
  • Ike
    • Extreme long distance: He has...Quickdraw? That's about it. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: This is a lot more comfortable considering Quickdraw actually might work here, but it's still pretty terrible for Ike. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: Sweetness, Ike's max range shines here. In case you didn't know, Ike's range is very, very good, and at this distance, his slower attacks have a much better chance of hitting to cause devastating effect. Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: You might assume Ike is actually not that comfortable here because his moves can be quite laggy, but that would be vastly underestimating him. His u-tilt is extremely fast. He has one of the most effective and profitable jab cancels in the game. Combine these with the absurd amount of strength he places into each blow, and he's a force to be reckoned with up close. Rating: Comfortable
  • Pokemon Trainer
    • Extreme long distance: Overall Rating: Bearable
    • Long distance: Overall Rating: Bearable
    • Medium distance: Overall Rating: Comfortable
    • Short distance: Overall Rating: Bearable
    • Squirtle
      • Extreme long distance: Squirtle is really hard to hit since he's so small and cute. And can crouch. Good mobility both in the air and on the ground so he doesn't have to stay here too long. I think Squirtle is comfortable here, but doesn't really want to stay here since he has to be close to do anything. Rating: Bearable
      • Long distance: Squirtle doesn't mind being here. Shellshifting allow Squirtle to quickly get closer and pressure the opponent. Good aerial mobility to get closer. Again, projectiles aren't a huge hassle for Squirtle. Rating: Bearable
      • Medium distance: Squirtle likes it here. Shellshifting is much more effective. Short hop to whatever is also usable with good DI. Squirtle can pick his spots and be choosy about when he does, because shellshifting and aerial DI lend themselves to good spacing. Rating: Bearable
      • Short distance: Squirtle likes it here. He can follow up on openings and attack quickly and swiftly. But he has to be very wary of shieldgrabbers., which can totally wreck him from up close. Rating: Bearable
    • Ivysaur
      • Extreme long distance: It is difficult for Ivysaur to force an approach from here. Rating: Bearable
      • Long distance: Razor Leaf is pretty effective at this range and can force an opponent to get closer due to harassment. Rating: Comfortable
      • Medium distance: At this range, many of Ivysaur's safest attacks do very well, including his whipping aerials, his grabs, and his jabbing whips. Rating: Comfortable
      • Short distance: Unfortunately, once an opponent is this close, a lot of attacks Ivysaur does will either be too slow, thus power-shielded and attacked, or not strong enough to deal enough punishment. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Charizard
      • Extreme long distance: Charizard literally has nothing he can do out here, and he's large enough to be a sitting duck for any projectile. Rating: Uncomfortable
      • Long distance: Charizard has more options here. He can begin using his Flamethrower for harassment and he has a much easier time approaching. Rating: Bearable
      • Medium distance: Almost everything Charizard can do works here. He has vey good range. Rating: Comfortable
      • Short distance: Same as medium distance. Speed isn't a large issue here because the hitboxes come out relatively fast for Charizard. Rating: Comfortable
  • Yoshi

    • Extreme long distance: The great thing about Yoshi at this range is that he can toss an egg with impunity, meaning that, unless the opponent has a significantly faster projectile, Yoshi's not getting punished for it. This means he can toss eggs to force an opponent to approach Rating: Comfortable
      Long distance: Yoshi is in a very strange zone here. His eggs still work, but they are much more punishable because of their speed. He can approach from here, but many other characters would have better options while hanging out here. You definitely don't want to stay here as Yoshi. Rating: Uncomfortable
      Medium distance: Yoshi shines pretty well here. Thing about being here is that he loses the ability to spam eggs, but in return, he can actually make use of his ground game to counter attack. Any quick person (reaction time) can make this spot look like the best place a Yoshi should be at (or at long distance range). Rating: Comfortable
      Short distance: Half and half here. Most of the time, you'll find yourself attacking, then spot dodging to keep from getting hit. the best options that were for the other distances aren't as viable here, simply because they're not fast enough. Tilts, Bair, Nair, Dsmash, and standard A combo are most used here. When having someone on the defensive, having the ground game's small time pressure and the air game's medium time pressure gives a good amount of heavy pressuring that'll make a character scrambling to get Yoshi off. Rating: Bearable
  • Ganondorf
    • Extreme long distance: What Ganondorf doesn't wanna stop their opponent from projectile spamming? Inarguably a bad place for any Ganondorf to be. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: Still of little good for Ganondorf, he can maybe hit with Wizard Foot if the opponent doesn't expect it, but that's about it. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: Here's where Ganondorf can start having his fun. He's equipped with many decently ranged moves to hit the opponent while not being too close, and most of them can set up or knock away. It's still dangerous here, but it's where Ganondorf needs to be most of the time. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: Similar to ROB, at this distance Ganondorf can still fight, but it's mostly to get the opponent off of him. Otherwise, Ganondorf risks losing what little control of the fight he has. He needs the distance to keep opponents from capitalizing on his sluggish movement. Rating: Bearable
  • Captain Falcon
    • Extreme long distance: Fail... Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: Not really anything. Falcon Kick and Raptor Boost cover about half of FD... Still pretty bad. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: Falcon Kick, Raptor Boost... Meh. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Short distance: Pretty much everything Falcon has... Considering the speed, Falcon can do a few things here. Rating: Comfortable

Another component we need to look at is how good a character is at killing. This basically comes down to two components:

  • Killing power, specifically how effective a character is at killing an opponent at kill percentage.
  • Gimping potential, specifically how effective a character is at killing an opponent outside a kill percentage. It does not necessarily mean meteor-smashing or effective edge-guarding, only to the fact that they can kill far before a character is generally expected to die (for instance, Snake can b-air a character off-stage into a blast zone while they are at a low percentage and get the kill).

And, again, let us apply it to the top tiers (plus other characters other people have done), using the Amazing-Terrible rating system:

  • Meta Knight
    • Killing power: Meta Knight has a lot of effective and very fast killing moves. Shuttle Loop and d-smash are the first to come to mind, but n-air and f-smash are also surprisingly good. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: His ability to f-air and n-air people to death off-stage as well as sort of uppercut people behind him into oblivion using Shuttle Loop makes his gimping potential very high. Rating: Amazing
  • Snake
    • Killing power: Snake kills like a mad man. 'Nuff said. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: Snake gimps simply because his attacks are so powerful. This gimping can even be done if he performs an aerial off-stage near a blast zone, but this is somewhat predictable and can be avoided. Rating: Above Average
  • King Dedede
    • Killing power: His killing power is high, considering the myriad of powerful knockback attacks he has, but they're very situational. His strongest killer is obviously his f-smash, but it is very slow and punishable. His d-smash is fast, but not always strong enough. His b-air is fast, but it may have been diminished. His dash attack can kill and the slight pause gets side-steppers off-guard, but it can be punished if seen coming. His best killer is his u-tilt which DeDeDe players generally will not allow to become stale. Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping potential: His great edgeguarding abilities allow for a myriad of ways for him to gimp, but generally opponents will find ways around this due to his predictable aerial approach. Rating: Average
  • Mr. Game & Watch
    • Killing power: F-smash, down-smash, up-smash. All fast and all very strong. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: His lingering hitboxes with disjointed priority are very difficult to avoid if used right. Even a weak F-air can gimp characters by stalling their momentum as they recover. A sweetspotted one usually KOs people off stage. His dash attack can stage spike. He can chase people down with his Up-B, which off stage can also score KOs. Last but not least, his D-air when slowfalled makes it ridiculously hard for anyone to safely aim for the ledge and not risk getting stagespiked. Rating: Amazing
  • Falco
    • Killing power: Falco's kills rely upon setting up a situation so that he can hit and f-smash, up-smash, or down-smash, and he has the tools to do it. It's only hampered by the fact that it requires such a set-up to be reliable. Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping potential: His b-air can stage spike and his d-air can meteor smash. The problem is that both have small frames of success and both can potentially put him in a dangerous position to be punished, although if done properly should not be an issue. Perhaps his best setup for gimping is the d-throw chaingrabs to d-air off-stage, which is absolutely deadly against some characters. Another thing Falco can do is d-air character while they are near the blast zone. Rating: Above Average
  • R.O.B.
    • Killing power: R.O.B. lacks reliable kill power because his killing attacks require setups but he doesn't quite have the tools to do it consistently. His b-air can kill, but it isn't quite strong enough to always be useful. His f-smash can kill, but it, too, can become weak. His up-smash can definitely kill and often does not become stale, but it has a very awkward hitbox and is somewhat predictable. His best killer is his n-air, but R.O.B. users must make sure to not abuse it during a match to make it usable as a kill move. Rating: Below Average
    • Gimping potential: R.O.B.'s edgeguarding game makes him a beastly gimper. He can f-air many opponents into oblivion while off-stage, can b-air predictable recoveries, b-air opponents near blast zone, b-air opponents to stage-spike them, or meteor smash them with his fairly powerful d-air. His powerful ledgecamping options also makes him fairly useful for goading early kills. Rating: Amazing
  • Donkey Kong
    • Killing power: DK can kill with bair, uair, fair, DK punch, and all the smashes. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: The only true gimp that DK has besides a Wall of Pain is the cargo stage spike, however. it can be teched. Another option is to cargo throw them away from the stage for a kill, this is highly effective on about half the cast depending on whether you throw them away or under the stage. For an effective CSS the opponent needs to be at least at 50%. Rating: Above Average
  • Diddy Kong
    • Killing Power: Diddy's Fsmash and Dsmash are his strongest moves. Many of the heavier characters can survive until 130-140% before a fresh one of these kills them. Fair, fthrow and ftilt are also decent finishers. He isn't too great at killing. Rating: Below Average.
    • Gimping potential: Diddy has three spikes, a fairly long recovery, 2 projectiles (3 if you count 2 bananas & 1 peanut). He is pretty good at harrassing recovery. Rating: Above Average.
  • Fox
    • Killing power: Fox's best bet is to wait for a good up smash set up at the correct percentage. Down aerial can chain into up smash at decent percentages however is easily smash DIed and punished. Fox's speed allows for a shield drop up smash to connect easily as a punisher though. Downsmash and back air are also decent options for killing. Up air and forward smash are also possible killers, albeit less frequent and more situational. Rating: Average
    • Gimping potential: Fox doesn't have much commitment to gimp his opponent. His best bets are connecting a down aerial or footstool jump to a shine against characters with poor vertical recovery, however the knockback in these cases is still minimal and ineffective. Fox also needs to put himself at a positional disadvantage when attempting this. Rating: Terrible
  • Bowser

    • Killing power: Although he kills a little later than most of the heavies, he has a wide arsenal of KO moves so there is no fear of stale moves. Getting a grab can assure a KO on a lot of characters. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: Firebreath can gimp a select few characters. A downward tilted FTilt or a DTilt can gimp horizontal recoveries aimed for the ledge. Otherwise Bowser can jump off for a FAir or BAir. The former is faster while the latter has more knockback. Rating: Below Average
  • Luigi
    • Killing power: Luigi is pretty good at killing, the main kill moves being D-Smash, F-smash, and n-air.So he has a nice mix of moves to kill with and firepunch kills D3 at 71%. Jesus he is a beast, but firepunch is really for low percent kills and I wouldn't rely on it. Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping potential: He is good at gimping with his f-air chains and b-air WoPs but those are all he can really do to gimp.Well he has fire ball but that is only useful if you hit them at the start of their double jump as it just stops it.What really limits him though is his amount of jumps which unfortunately, has no way of being worked around. Rating: Average
  • Ike
    • Killing power: Ike's ftilt is stronger than a lot of other characters' smashes, strongest ftilt in the game. Utilt is also strong. Dtilt is 2nd strongest move Ike has. Fsmash is ridiculous in getting low % kills. Usmash is AMAZING when charged, (gains 30-40% killing power when fully charged), Jab and dash attack can be used to kill light weights. Oh yeah, he's gonna kill yo ***. Rating: Amazing
    • Gimping potential: Ike actually has quite a few options for edgeguarding: walk of fair, uair, bair, dair, the aether spike, dtilt spike, Eruption as a challenge. The problem is that many characters can either circumvent these options altogether or find ways to challenge Ike back., thus Ike must be very clever about which strategy he uses depending on the opponent. Rating: Average
  • Pokemon Trainer
    • Killing power: Overall Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping potential: Overall Rating: Average
    • Squirtle
      • Killing power: Shellshifting makes all three Smashes mobile and the ability to charge as you slide lets Squirtle kill earlier than normally possible. However, this can become predictable and the effectiveness will wear off a bit. It's always a threat, which means that the opponent can never be too comfortable. The less the Squirtle Shifts Smashes, the more effective it is as a killing option. Squirtle's down-throw is one of the best kill throws in the game, definitely. And it's easy to take advantage of because of shellshifting. Rating: Above Average
      • Gimping potential: Dair has a strong semi-spike trajectory and is his main gimp tool. Fair is a strong aerial when fresh, but not strong enough to gimp at ridiculous sub-80% range. Water Gun is a very useful and funny tool to use. Even if it can't outright gimp some characters, it can put them in a bad position where they will have to respond in a certain, predictable way. Sometimes the threat of Water Gun is enough to force characters into recovering from below, in which case a Dair can stage spike or timely edge hug can gimp. Rating: Average
    • Ivysaur
      • Killing power: The primary problem lies in Ivysaur's inability to land his best killing moves. His forward-smash is beastly, but it is highly punishable. His up-smash is absurdly powerful, but Ivysaur must get in very close to hit it, which if where he does the poorest. Rating: Below Average
      • Gimping potential: Ivysaur has a wicked spike. However, his poor options off-stage makes it so he cannot easily commit to it, especially since he must get so close to the opponent to make it worthwhile. In other words, he'll probably never be spiking anyone decent. Rating: Terrible
    • Charizard
      • Killing power: Charizard is very strong, but he has to work a bit to land the killing blow. If his attacks have not diminished, however, as soon as he lands the blow, the opponent is probably dead. Rating: Above Average
      • Gimping potential: Charizard's great aerial mobility and edgeguarding game makes this very easy for Charizard. Any aerial works great if the opponent recovers head-on, but an opponent recovering from below make the d-air more difficult to hit than one would hope. Rating: Above Average
  • Yoshi
    • Killing power: Needs more power (this is a freaking dinosaur we're talking about!). Having about 4 reliable killing moves isn't something to really be happy about. 2 of your killing moves is used for combos half the time, and another one needs enough time to get in without the opponent being able to Perfect Shield it. The CG -> Release is useful, I'll admit, but it's not enough to make the problem go away. Rating: Below Average
    • Gimping potential: I can say that without forcing things, this will get harder than expected to be. All his aerials, except for Fair, and Egg Toss are fairly good at intercepting an opponent while he's trying to recover (Uair not included). Mix this in with aerial speed, and you have some good potential to gimp opponents. Rating: Average
  • Ganondorf
    • Killing power: It's what Ganondorf's about, and he's definitely good at it. They will take some timing though, so it's not necessarily easy, but when Ganondorf does land a finishing blow, that's usually it for most characters. Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping potential: Fortunately for Ganondorf, his kill moves can also work to gimp foes pretty well. Spartan Kick comes to mind as Ganondorf just loves to boot unsuspecting people off-stage at an annoying angle. DAir destroys at a low percentage and UAir spikes characters to their doom. Finally, a Ganondorf on the ropes can drag eager opponents to their doom with a Flame Choke suicide. The major problem is that all of these approaches, aside from the Spartan Kick, can be predictable, so one must mix up their options with some very good mindgames to make this work. Rating: Average
  • Captain Falcon
    • Killing power: Dsmash has a nice low trajectory. PAUNCH if you can land it is still pretty good. And the Knee, while nerfed, is still a useful killer. Rating: Average
    • Gimping potential: Gimp knee to Uair is ****. True Knee used as a gimp is also ****. Dair spike, dair launch, and falcon dive... Rating: Above Average

The last element to discuss is "Survivability", which is a measure of how well a character can stay alive.

Survivability

  • Recovery: How easily a character can recover after being knocked away but not killed. This doesn't simply include how far a character can recover from, but also how well they perform in a battle situation.
  • Staying Power: How easily a character can survive while in his/her/its kill percentages. This not only includes a character's weight/falling speed/etc. but also the options a character can do to prevent himself from being killed by keeping the opponent away or punishing a failed approach.

Ratings: Easy, Intermediate, Difficult

The ratings are based on the assumption that the character's built-in survival mechanisms have been sufficiently mastered by a player. It also specifically rates how easy it is for a character to recover/stay alive while in kill percentage.

The following analyses below have been done based on my own experiences and knowledge of these characters. Since I am probably wrong on quite a few of them, I have decided to consult the character boards once more, and then post their fixes/consultations as they come in.

And since this is a small enough aspect of the Element of Brawl, feel free to discuss it directly here.

  • Meta Knight
    • Recovery: He has multiple jumps, he can use any of his B moves to recover, and he can glide. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: He’s light, so if you get the killing hit on him, he’ll probably die. However, his spacing abilities are ridiculous good, he’d ridiculously fast, and he’s small enough to dodge a lot of things. But once he's in a kill percentage and you find that hole, bam! Rating: Intermediate
  • Snake
    • Recovery: His second jump is actually bigger than his first, but his only real recovery move, Cypher, is difficult to control, leaves Snake open for gimping, an can be hijinked pretty badly if grabbed. This forces Snake to Cypher very high, but this can't always be done, and even then he's vulnerable to a myriad of things. He can use C4 for an extra recovery, often C4 is left on the stage or it ends up killing Snake. He can also use his f-air to get a delay, but it's not that great. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: He's heavy as hell, his tilts and jabs are fast enough to knock people the hell away and his mortar, mine, and projectile game can keep him safe. His only weakness for being hit by a kill move is in the air, but even that's debatable. Rating: Easy
  • King Dedede
    • Recovery: Multiple jumps and a Super DeDeDe Jump that can be hard to gimp and can be whiffed for added safety. He can literally float near the edge and harass you as he is recovering. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: He's super duper heavy. There is very little chance you'll be killing him off the top, unless you perfectly up-smash a falling Up+B. Most kills against DeDeDe will be at the side blastzones. Rating: Easy
  • Mr. Game & Watch
    • Recovery: If he isn't killed outright, his Up+B make it so that he can recover from strange areas somewhat easily and safely. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: While his spacing is pretty good, Game and Watch's extreme lightness as well as his relatively large frame make him an easy target for strong kill moves. Rating: Difficult
  • Falco
    • Recovery: Falco isn't the best at recovering in the game since his options aren't that great. His Up+B is a lot safer in this game than in Melee, but it's still very easy to gimp. His side+B is his best recovery option, but any decent Smasher can see it coming and will compensate. Not good eats. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: Relatively light, and his options for keeping away an opponent isn't the best. Rating: Difficult
  • R.O.B.
    • Recovery: R.O.B. is great at recovering. He's also got the incomparable Robo Burner, the use of a jump+Side+B for a bit of an extra boost, and a b-air that lets him reach places very easily. Plus, he can cancel the Burner at any time with an aerial and use his Up+B up to five times off-stage as long as he still has gas. Of course, that's his only weakness: he runs out of gas. But even that isn't easy to exploit. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: R.O.B.'s down-smash alone makes him a difficult character to get close to, but his projectile game don't hurt either. The problem is that R.O.B. can get into a lot of situations where it's rather easy to get a hit on him, and often it can be fatal. Rating: Intermediate
  • Marth
    • Recovery: Once off-stage, his recovery options are very limited. His Up+B is screwed if someone hugs the edge at the right time. His Shield Breaker only gets him so much closer, and even then it must be charged a very long time before he gets close to the stage. Dancing Blade gives him a bit of a delay, but it's not necessarily the best. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: Somewhat light, he can be easy to kill by a power move. However, his spacing options makes this a difficult prospect, although there are huge holes to this that can be exploited. Rating: Intermediate
  • Wario
    • Recovery: Wario is pretty heavy and has very good recovery options which are hard to punish. His Up+B sucks, but the lateral distance and protection offered by his bike combined with his jump off of said bike and an Up+B is a pretty gnarly recovery. Only problem is that he needs to have saved up his bike, but will take care to fix any bike mess-ups by eating their problems away. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Rather heavy, great at playing keep-away due to his aerial movement, decent spacing options, this keeps Wario alive. None of them are robust enough to work for too long, however. Rating: Intermediate
  • Lucario
    • Recovery: Lucario is a mixed bag. About average weight makes him hard to knock away and his floatiness + aerials on the way back gives him enough options to be safe, but his ExtremeSpeed isn't particularly amazing. It can be combined with Wall Cling for added options, but it's still somewhat predictable as to where the Lucario will try to land. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Lucario's spacing can be really awesome, but they are rather large start-up and cool-down times on some of his options that makes it a difficult prospect. His best options for this is his Aura Sphere, but spammed Aura Balls can be easily gotten through. Fortunately, as he reaches kill percentage, he becomes much better at playing keep-away, but none of this is really good for stopping death from approaching. Rating: Intermediate
  • Donkey Kong
    • Recovery: Donkey Kong has always had great lateral recovery. However, he's also always had terrible vertical recovery, and that's still his problem in this game. However, his Donkey Copter has significantly more priority than before and has a much smaller windows for gimping. To counteract that, if he missed the ledge and lands on the ground, he sort of just slams in the floor, leaving him open. His side+B is an interesting stall: because it lets him stall for so long, he can use it to recover from stages like Norfair and Brinstar by simply waiting until the lava/acid comes up and hits him, giving his jump back. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: DK is very heavy and his spacing options are ridiculously good. He's gonna stick around for a while. Rating: Easy
  • Diddy
    • Recovery: Diddy's recovery is deceptively awesome. His Side+B, if not turned into a kick, still allows him to do a second jump, meaning he can do it for relatively safe lateral recovery at any time. If it grabs an opponent, he can essentially turn it into a spike. His Up+B, while requiring charging, is also relatively safe since, if the opponent unsuccessfully hinders him off-stage, they also risk getting spiked by the barrel cannons, although an opponent can also hit Diddy out of his cannon and kill him instead. This makes opponents think that it's not worth risking approaching Diddy off-stage if he is in the middle of recovery. All in all, surprisingly good. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Diddy is small and light and his spacing for playing keep-away isn't the best since his game primarily relies on comboing with bananas rather than poking. As long as he keeps spacing with his bananas and tilts, though, he can survive somewhat long. Rating: Intermediate
  • Pikachu
    • Recovery: Side+B can be easy to gimp because its trajectory of approach can be predictable and there are a few moves that can break through it outright. However, most Pikachus rely almost solely on their Quick Attack to recover, and it is an excellent and unpredictable move. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Down-smash can play keep-away and his aerial spacing options are pretty good in conjunction with his ability to harass the opponent with his Thunder Jolts, but there's a bunch of holes where he can be hit, plus he's very light. Rating: Intermediate
  • Ice Climbers
    • Recovery: Ice Climbers' recovery potential is completely dependent on Nana's survival. With Nana, it's pretty great. Without Nana, it's pretty terrible. Plus, they're very light, so if a single Popo is knocked off by himself, good luck to him. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Again, a lot of this is based on Nana. See, if Nana is dead, Blizzard and Glaciers, both very good keep-away tactics, are greatly hindered, and Nana doesn't even necessarily have to be dead for this to happen. Also, Popo is very light, so if he's in kill percentage and is hit by a kill move, he's dead. Rating: Difficult
  • Kirby
    • Recovery: What can I say that hasn't already been said? Multiple jumps, f-air, hammer, and then topped up with Cutter. Yeah. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Kirby is fairly light, but his spacing options are excellent with very few holes. The key is getting through them by being patient and then capitalizing at the right time. Rating: Intermediate
  • Pit
    • Recovery: Pit was for a long time considered the best recoverer in the game. We now know that is not true. Nonetheless, he is still a beastly recoverer. Multiple jumps, side+B, the ability to glide, and the Wings of Icarus which basically lets him fly anywhere he wants. The only problem with Pit's recovery is that his Up+B immediately stops when he gets hit and he falls to his death. Although this happens more often than it should, it's a rare problem. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Pit is fairly light and his spacing isn't that great. There are all sorts of places you can hit him and not be that worried about punishment. His best strategy for this is running away and spamming arrow, but that doesn't work for very long if the opponent is not ********. Rating: Difficult
  • Wolf
    • Recovery: Wolf's options for recovery, like most space animals, aren't the best. Although he's the heaviest of the bunch, he's still pretty easy to knock off-stage. Once off, his side+B, like the other space animals, if his best recovery, and it has a whole range of options on certain stages. However, he can't really always use it, and his Up+B is very finicky and difficult to use. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: Average weight, excellent spacing options, excellent aerial options for playing keep-away, and an excellent blaster. It's just that Wolf has cool-down on a lot of his moves. Rating: Intermediate
  • Toon Link
    • Recovery: Toon Link's weight makes him easy to kill out-right, but his recovery options are pretty decent. Floatiness means his jumps make a big difference. This floatiness also lets him shoot projectiles to protect himself; he can even pull out a comb very early on to force himself an extra third jump. However, there are still areas in his projectile spamming that can be taken advantage of, thus still a bit vulnerable. His Up+B goes relatively high and is very safe, but if done above stage leaves him open to punishment. Not to mention he has a relatively decent tether. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Toon Link's spacing options are good, but he is also very light. The key is using the proper options at the right time since anything else could result in death. For instance, a shielded d-air by T-Link leaves him completely open for punishment from a number of kill moves. Rating: Intermediate
  • Olimar
    • Recovery: Light weight + variable-length tether = terrible recovery. The best thing he's got going for him is the ability to whistle + spike, but it's very difficult to do and doesn't work against many aerial approaches. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: The things is, Olimar's spacing options are pretty decent, both because they are long and because it's hard to really tell what he's about to do next. However, there are a few Pikmin-based moves that can be penetrated by strong attack (i.e. it kills the Pikmin then hits Olimar, resulting in his death) and his light weight does not help this situation. Fortunately, he has his whistle, the more versatile superarmor in the game, but it can't always be done consistently in a battle situation. Rating: Intermediate
  • Fox
    • Recovery: Unlike the other space animals, Fox has more options whilst recovery besides his side and up specials. Fox's rising forward aerial is a good recovery tactic, allowing for Fox to fall towards and below the stage and rise towards the ledge whilst covering himself. Fox can also use the rising forward aerial immediately to go high and use his down special to stall his landing as to safely wait for an opportunity to recover to the stage with his side special, avoiding the normal predictability that would come from simply using the side special. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Fox is very succeptible to vertical killing moves, his vertical survivability is only better than that of Jigglypuff, Mr. Game and Watch, and Squirtle. This means many characters can kill Fox at lower percentages than he can kill them. Rating: Difficult
  • Zelda
    • Recovery: Very light weight makes her easy for out-right killing, but her recovery skills are fantastic. Nayru's Love protects her as she returns and her Farore's Wind goes like...a million miles. However, it has a set distance and is very easily telegraphed, making it very punishable, can get stuck under some ledges, and is a fairly slow recovery. It helps her get back to the stage, but perhaps not that safely. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Once you're very close, Zelda's spacing options aren't the greatest other than her up-smash last for a very long time. Combine this with the fact that she is light and she is not going to last long in kill percentage. Rating: Difficult
  • Zero Suit Samus
    • Recovery: Despite mostly relying on a tether recovery, her recovery is surprisingly robust. Down+B, while somewhat short, essentially gives her an extra jump. and if combined with a foostool into a flipstool gives her a massive jump. Her floatiness makes her jumps more worthwhile. Her ease of attacking as she recovers makes it so she can keep the ledge free for her very long tether recoveries, especially with the threat of spiking an opponent. Overall, she's pretty safe out here. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Although she is light, her spacing abilities are excellent. This makes you have to find that hole in which you can hit the kill blow. Rating: Intermediate
  • Bowser
    • Recovery: Bowser's heavy, so he ain't getting killed too easily. If he's off-stage, his Bowser Fortress, while not as long-ranged or high-priority as Donkey Kong's copter, is pretty difficult to gimp. Plus, his vertical recovery is much more robust than Donkey Kong's. However, his jumps are pretty terrible. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Heavy as hell, above average spacing, and awesome punishment options makes this spiked turtle very difficult to kill out-right. Rating: Easy
  • Luigi
    • Recovery: Luigi's recovery is fantastic. Green Missile lets him travel horizontally forever (the odd misfire letting him travel a gazillion miles), his Tornado lets him rise really high, and his Up+B is maneuverable in this game, allowing him to more easily grab the ledge with it. The primary problem is the controllability of these recoveries: Green Missile only travels sideways, Up+B is only straight up, and Tornado can be unpredictably controlled. and they each have opening in which they can be exploited. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Average weight, average spacing, average staying power. Rating: Intermediate
  • Peach
    • Recovery: Peach's vertical recovery stinks. But it doesn't have to be great when she can travel horizontally without ever losing any vertical ground and can attack freely as she returns. Plus, her Up+B gives her the extra vertical boost she needs to reach a ledge. Her only weakness in recovering is her light weight, which can make her easy to kill outright. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Peach's poking game is absolutely fantastic. Combine this with her turnips, and she has a fantastic keep-away game. However, there are clear holes in it which can be exploited, and this combined with her light weight means finding the proper opportunity means death if she's at kill percentage. Rating: Intermediate
  • Ike
    • Recovery: To put it simply, Ike is terrible at recovering. His side+B gives him the horizontal reach he needs, but it needs to be charged, Ike falls rather quickly, and the opponent can just sacrifice a few points of damage to force a gimp. His Up+B is his best recovery move, since his sword disconnects far from his body and hits the opponent before he follows it, giving him a very safe approach. Unfortunately, knock Ike over to an area that's diagonally far enough away from the ledge and he can literally do nothing. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: His greatest strength here is that he can punish a failed approach with his very good ranged options with devastating results. However, his lengthy cool-down times and overall slow speed gives him many different spots where a kill is easily achieved. Rating: Intermediate
  • Sheik
    • Recovery: Sheik is light and falls fast, boding for poor recovery. However, her "third jump + Ninja Vanish" makes for a decent and safe recovery. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Rather light with a not-so-great poking game. Her greatest asset for playing keep-away are her needles, which can be dealt with easily. Her ability to punish a failed approach isn't that great. Rating: Difficult
  • Lucas
    • Recovery: All sorts of crazy wavebouncing hijinks along with his crazily huge jumps gives Lucas a lot more options, although he can render himself vulnerable through this type of recovery. Plus, his PKT and PKT2 passes through people, so one can't just steal his thunder to gimp him, not to mention he has a tether as a method of quick ledge-grabbing if he isn't too far away. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: His best spacing option is his PK Fire, which is easy to deal with if seen coming. His PKT2 can harass opponents to stay away, but it can also be dealt with. His ability to punish a failed approach is somewhat decent, but not by much. His light weight and floatiness makes him difficult to kill, but he can keep away opponents long enough to at least do enough damage to make it worth it. Rating: Intermediate
  • Ness
    • Recovery: Ness's recovery is like Lucas's but toned down. The lack of a wavebounce gives him less options. His PK Thunder can be stolened to gimp Ness's recovery, but this typically only happens if the opponent has already jumped off-stage and positions himself perfectly. He can also use his Magnet to stall. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: His PK Thunder is good enough to keep opponents away for quite a while until the opponent gets in really close. Then, he is just floaty enough to render a powerful kill move possible with somewhat ease. Rating: Intermediate
  • Mario
    • Recovery: Mario's options have been severely limited in his transition from Melee. The lack of a down+B Tornado makes it so that he can't add an extra jump to his recovery. Because of this, he now relies solely on his jumps, cape for stalling, and Up+B. Nevertheless, all of them serve as relatively safe options, but if any of them are compromised, Mario's chances of survival are severely shortened. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: Average weight, average spacing, average staying power. Rating: Intermediate
  • Pokémon Trainer
    • Recovery: Overall Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Overall Rating: Intermediate
    • Squirtle
      • Recovery: Squirtle's really light, so he can be killed out-right somewhat easily, but his floatiness makes it very easy for him to jump back to safety. His Waterfall is a relatively safe recovery, but its awkward angle makes him get stuck under ledges sometimes, and it's not unpunishable. Rating: Intermediate
      • Staying Power: Squirtle is very light and his options for keeping an opponent away aren't the greatest. If he's at kill percentage, he's pending for a bending. Rating: Difficult
    • Ivysaur
      • Recovery: Ivysaur's recovery is terrible, and quite possible the worst tether-dependent recovery in the game; at least Olimar can potentially gimp his opponent along with him and can manageably fight someone trying to gimp him. Although he has methods to try to get around this, there's no getting around the fact that his tether makes him oh-so-vulnerable as he is recovering. Rating: Difficult
      • Staying Power: Ivysaur actually does quite well at keeping an opponent away. His ability to space with his vines makes it difficult to properly approach for the killing blow. It's not like the opponent can't ever get inside, but they're going to have a bit of a time doing it. Rating: Intermediate
    • Charizard
      • Recovery: Charizard is a tough sunuva*****, very heavy, and several safe counter-options while recovering. He has multiple jumps, a glide, and an Up+B that's difficult to punish off-stage. All-in-all, very solid. Rating: Easy
      • Staying Power: Charizard is very heavy and his spacing options, with his f-air and Rock Smash, are very good. He's not dying easily anytime soon. Rating: Easy
  • Samus
    • Recovery: Heavy, floaty, huge jumps, bomb jumps, tether recovery, and an Up+B with massive priority. Yeah, she's not goin' anywhere very quickly. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: A good Samus will cover an opponent in attacks and make it difficult to approach due to her missiles and charged shots. However, her large size and floaty nature makes her a large enough target to be killed consistently. Rating: Intermediate
  • Yoshi
    • Recovery: Yoshi's primary method of recovery is the Double Jump + Airdodge. Because his momentum isn't canceled in this game with such a maneuver, a Yoshi can basically safely return to land as long as he has such a jump. He can also use his third jump to give him an extra boost when need or an extra egg to keep the opponent away. Its only weakness is that if Yoshi was thrown off-stage with his second jump missing, he is screwed. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Yoshi's fairly heavy and his spacing/keep-away options are fairly good. His only problem here is when he messes up an approach since it can lead to heavy punishment. Rating: Intermediate
  • Sonic
    • Recovery: No matter how you slice it, Sonic has excellent recovery. Every B attack can be used as a recovery, mixing up his on-stage approach, and his Spring Jump can actually hit opponents from below as he rises extremely high. The main problem is that he can be hit out of nearly all of these recoveries save for the neutral B, which can be shielded then punished. However, the overall speed and unpredictability of these recoveries combined with the fact that 2/4 of the recoveries have invincibility frames make it very easy for Sonic to return. Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: Sonic's isn't the heaviest character and his spacing while standing still isn't very good. However, he's so fast and tricky that sometimes it's just really hard to catch him on larger stages (like seriously, trying to catch a good Sonic off-guard on Final Destination is not an easy task). The trick here is just trying to catch him, and he can do a few hit-and-runs on you before you get to do so. Rating: Intermediate
  • Jigglypuff
    • Recovery: Jiggly's recovery is awesome, and very safe. Multiple jumps, rising pounds, aerials as she approaches from off-stage, what's not to love? Rating: Easy
    • Staying Power: So light, so light. Although her spacing is great, a lot of moves can outprioritize hers, and a well spaced kill move will take her out of town early than any other character in the game. Rating: Difficult
  • Ganondorf
    • Recovery: While he has a few options for scaring off the opponent as he recovers with his Murder Choke and Murder Punch, it ultimately comes down to how well his Murder Dive works, which ultimately is just really sucky: a poorly timed ledge-hug can kill him. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: He is a heavy sunuva*****, and his punishment options up close are very effective. Unfortunately, his spacing isn't really his best suit, and a good player could just overwhelm him until he dies. Rating: Intermediate
  • Link
    • Recovery: He falls so fast that just jumping off and hitting him once is enough to do the job. Plus, his Up+B is terrible for recovery, although it can decently keep an opponent away as he rises. Rating: Difficult
    • Staying Power: Link's spacing is decent, but a lot of his attacks have enough lag to be punishable. Plus his options for punishing a bad approach are terrible, he's fairly large, and he's not so good at running away. Rating: Difficult
  • Captain Falcon
    • Recovery: While his recovery is much better than in Melee, since his Raptor Boost can sort of bunny hop over an opponent in mid-air, it's still pretty bad and can be gimped pretty easily. The saving grace is that Up+B is actually underrated in versatility and punishability by a lot of characters and it can actually wrap around awkward angles, like the ledge in FD. Rating: Intermediate
    • Staying Power: Falcons spacing isn't very good since its priority is so small, and he's fairly easy to hit in general. His one caveat is that he has great running speed, but not fast like Sonic to the point that he's very difficult to hit. Rating: Difficult

Please make suggestions/corrections/complaints as necessary.

Just to put it in perspective, if you assign numbers on the Amazing-Terrible scale (5-1), on the Comfortable-Uncomfortable scale (3-1), and on the Easy-Difficult scale (3-1) and add them up for each character ordered by the tier list, this is what you'll get:

  • Meta Knight - 41
  • Snake - 34
  • King Dedede - 36
  • Mr. Game & Watch - 34
  • Falco - 31
  • R.O.B. - 33
  • Marth - ??
  • Wario - ??
  • Lucario - ??
  • Donkey Kong - 34
  • Diddy - 31
  • Pikachu - ??
  • Ice Climbers - ??
  • Kirby - ??
  • Pit - ??
  • Wolf - ??
  • Toon Link - ??
  • Olimar - ??
  • Fox - 24
  • Zelda - ??
  • Zero Suit Samus - ??
  • Bowser - 27
  • Luigi - 30
  • Peach - ??
  • Ike - 28
  • Sheik - ??
  • Lucas - ??
  • Ness - ??
  • Mario - ??
  • Pokémon Trainer - 30
    • Squirtle - 30
    • Ivysaur - 21
    • Charizard - 33
  • Samus - ??
  • Yoshi - 30
  • Sonic - ??
  • Jigglypuff - ??
  • Ganondorf - 25
  • Link - ??
  • Captain Falcon - 25



Take this for what you will.

And if you guys want to discuss any new characters, please go to your characters' respective forums and discuss in the topics there (either I made one or someone else already made one) and then post your discussion results here. That way, things are a lot more consistent and easy to keep track of. Thanks.



October 15, 2008: I've decided to add Anomilus's analysis of Ganondorf to these thingies, since I pretty much agree with it. If anyone has any other ones to add, please do so.

October 17, 2008: I have added Wolf, courtesy of Darth Bojak. However, any other additions will be done through characters boards. Thanks if you're giving input, but at this point I think it'd be better if we got the objectives of the characters' respective communities (this includes the ones that are already done, I simple don't want to have to do more work by editing what's already been done.

October 19, 2008: Wolf has been removed until a better analysis has been done.

October 24, 2008: Added a "Survivability" section.

October 25, 2008: Fixed Yoshi and Sonic in "Survivability". Fixed some scores. Did some minor format clean-up. Added Bowser, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi. Credits to their respective authors have been placed at the top of this post. Also, thank God editing posts doesn't bump them, lol.

October 27, 2008: Major update to Game and Watch. Minor update to Falco and Diddy Kong.

October 29, 2008: Minor update to Ness and Falcon (fixed their recovery stats).

November 2, 2008: Added Luigi. Ike, Fox, and Pokemon Trainer. Updated Yoshi.

Also I am writing this down for my own sanity:

Priority Update:

Ness
Lucas
Ice Climbers

Characters that still need updates:

Marth
Wario
Lucario
Pikachu
Kirby
Pit
Wolf
Toon Link
Olimar
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Peach
Sheik
Mario
Samus
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Link
 
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DRaGZ

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Greenstreet said:
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do the whole cast lol.
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I cannot do the whole cast because I do not know the whole cast well. The only characters I know well enough happened to be in the top tier plus Ganondorf, Bowser, Wolf, Falcon, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Marth, and Toon Link. The rest...my play experience with them, both with and against, is lacking.

EDIT: Lol, looking back at this post I made, I still agree with it, so now I realize what a ridiculously large undertaking I have put upon myself, lol.
 
Greenstreet

Greenstreet

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I know mate, I didn't really expect you to take it seriously...hence the lol...
I really like what you have written here and it does give pretty good reasons why they are up there.
 
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PeeP

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Lol is this to show us that Metaknight should be banned?

Every single category he got the highest possible rating.
 
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DRaGZ

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Gheb_01 said:
Falco is more than just average in the air...
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Actually, I think you're right. I'll make it above average.

PeeP said:
Lol is this to show us that Metaknight should be banned?

Every single category he got the highest possible rating.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, because I honestly think it's true that he does extremely well in each of the elements I listed.
 
Browny

Browny

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have to disagree on falco having above average KO potential, and DDD. I just really cannot thing of 19 (or so) characters who have worse KO potential than them, in temrs of variety of attacks they can use and ease of landing them
 
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DRaGZ

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djbrowny said:
have to disagree on falco having above average KO potential, and DDD. I just really cannot thing of 19 (or so) characters who have worse KO potential than them, in temrs of variety of attacks they can use and ease of landing them
Click to expand...
Above Average doesn't necessarily mean like...it's on a strict gradient or anything like that. It's either Above Average or Amazing, and I don't think their KO abilities are amazing. Now Snake and Meta Knight and Game and Watch, their KO abilities are frickin' Amazing. Their KO abilities also aren't just average because they have certain moves which are just particularly very deadly.
 
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bludhoundz

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I would not consider MK's killing potential amazing.

I'd say it's above average, though.

His kill moves are fast and have decent range, but aren't the most powerful. Not to say they are weak, but I think Snake and G&W are significantly stronger in this department.

Other than my minor disagreement there, I think this is an excellent breakdown of each characters' abilities. Good stuff, Dragz.
 
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DRaGZ

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chetjan said:
excelent post, but why do you list his forward smash as one of meta's fast moves?
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Is it not relatively fast? I know there's a bit of a start-up, but it's less than Game and Watch's, which still catches many people off-guard.

bludhoundz said:
I would not consider MK's killing potential amazing.

I'd say it's above average, though.

His kill moves are fast and have decent range, but aren't the most powerful. Not to say they are weak, but I think Snake and G&W are significantly stronger in this department.

Other than my minor disagreement there, I think this is an excellent breakdown of each characters' abilities. Good stuff, Dragz.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, but my reasoning is because they're just so **** fast. Plus, Shuttle Loop, arguably his best killer, has super armor frames on start-up, making it a very safe kill move that is generally very powerful and is basically instantaneous.
 
Dark Sonic

Dark Sonic

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^^Not to mention the low ending lag that makes it difficult to punish.

edit: And the quick release time after charging. That catches a lot of people off guard.
 
IDK

IDK

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hmm. good read. also pretty good advice for character matchups. i'd say falco is more comfortable at medium distance than you say though. lagless lasers lead to good follow ups.
 
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DRaGZ

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IDK said:
hmm. good read. also pretty good advice for character matchups. i'd say falco is more comfortable at medium distance than you say though. lagless lasers lead to good follow ups.
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Yeah, but he definitely doesn't want to stay in this zone because his options are as robust. If he gets a bit closer, there are much better things he can do. That's why it's bearable.

Same thing with R.O.B. when the opponent is in close range. He has some pretty good options, but the majority of them are to ensure that the enemy stays away from him, i.e. R.O.B. doesn't necessarily want to stay in this position. At the same time, if this is in the air, it may either be in R.O.B.'s advantage or disadvantage depending on how he's positioned. Thus bearable.
 
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salaboB

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Wouldn't extreme distance for MK just be bearable? It's not like he's in danger there, but at the same time he's also not doing anything offensively from all the way across FD.

Edit: Also, it seems like the ranges where kill moves tend to happen -- the lowest two -- would be weighted more heavily than the longer ones for comfort (For the final tally), since those are where the most damage tends to occur.
 
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DRaGZ

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salaboB said:
Wouldn't extreme distance for MK just be bearable? It's not like he's in danger there, but at the same time he's also not doing anything offensively from all the way across FD.
Click to expand...
That's true until you take into Meta Knight's ground speed and his ability to dodge projectile with ease, which makes it so that he's really quite comfortable hanging around in this area for a while.

In contrast, DeDeDe is a huge target and travels slowly, thus he's not as good at getting out of there easily. He makes up for this with Waddle-Dees, but that aren't the best projectiles.

And Game and Watch can just outright be taken to school by a long-distance projectile spammer if he decides to stay at that distance due to his size and only average walking speed.

Also, compare to how well Meta Knight can approach from that distance vs. Game and Watch. A Game and Watch would rather have approached from a long or medium distance position than a extreme long because that's a range where certain projectiles could possibly punish. Meta Knight, not so because of his very fast ground speed and small size.

In other words, both Meta Knight and Game and Watch only have one practical option at extreme long distance: approach. However, Meta Knight's approach from this distance is super easy for him, whereas Game and Watch may have a difficult time. This also takes into account that they are knocked away during battles: Meta Knight can just scoot right back without letting up on the pressure, but Game and Watch can lose his momentum and get back to a neutral zone if he is knocked away far enough.

salaboB said:
Ninja Edit: Also, it seems like the ranges where kill moves tend to happen -- the lowest two -- would be weighted more heavily than the longer ones for comfort (For the final tally), since those are where the most damage tends to occur.
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Not necessarily. A heavily defensive R.O.B. in the extreme long to long distance range and a DeDeDe alternating between extreme long and medium distance can do wonders as long as they continually space themselves well. If they get their opponents at a high enough percentage this way, they just need to look for an opening for a strong enough kill move, which they both possess (although situationally).
 
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salaboB

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DRaGZ said:
In other words, both Meta Knight and Game and Watch only have one practical option at extreme long distance: approach. However, Meta Knight's approach from this distance is super easy for him, whereas Game and Watch may have a difficult time. This also takes into account that they are knocked away during battles: Meta Knight can just scoot right back without letting up on the pressure, but Game and Watch can lose his momentum and get back to a neutral zone if he is knocked away far enough.
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Still, describing it as comfortable to me sounds more like a position he can take advantage of being in when really all he can do is get out of it. While he can get out of it without a problem, that sounds more like it's a bearable position than one he's really comfortable in.

Maybe it's just your choice of descriptive terms that's causing the problem, when I apply them the way they sound in my head it doesn't seem like MK fits that one (Though when I reworded the sentence a bit for an edit it seemed to fit better again, so who knows. It works).
 
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DRaGZ

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salaboB said:
Still, comfortable to me sounds more like a position he can take advantage of being in, and really all he can do is get out of it. Sure, he can get out of it without a problem, but that sounds like it's a bearable position.

Maybe it's just your choice of descriptive terms that's causing the problem, when I apply them the way they sound in my head it doesn't seem like MK fits that one.
Click to expand...
Comfortable as in "what options do I have while I am in this spacing and how good are they?"

Ultimately, every character wants to get in close so they can kill, but there are certain ranges of spacing they don't mind starting out in.
 
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DRaGZ

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Just the top tier. I only did it for perspective and to show how the different elements apply to different examples of characters (luckily, the top tier characters are pretty diverse).
 
Anomilus

Anomilus

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Hyperdon
I guess it's up to everyone else then to come up with explanations for characters they use. I main Meta Knight and Ganondorf, so I'll start Ganondorf and see where that goes. (I just hope I remember to check back here afterwards)


  • Ganondorf - Zoning
    • On the ground: Ganondorf's definitely most effective while on the ground. Flame Choking puts the opponent under Ganondorf's control, and the rest of his moves are about knockback. Unfortunately though speed and range become an issue here in which most characters can outdo Ganondorf in both areas. Rating: Average
    • In the air: It tends to get rather one-dimensional here, but Ganondorf definitely does not mind meeting most of his opponents in the air, if only for a short time to deliver singular powerful blows. Rating: Average
    • Off-stage: It really depends here; Ganondor can only go off-stage for a moment, but when he does he can really trouble certain characters. Oppositely, if he's on the defensive, he quickly runs out of options. Up-B isn't all that bad since its vertical reach is pretty good and the swipe attack threatens edgehoggers into throwing off their timing. Flame Choke also threatens with a suicide KO. This is as much credit as Ganondorf's gonna get here though. Rating: Below Average

  • Ganondorf - Spacing
    • Extreme long distance: What Ganondorf doesn't wanna stop their opponent from projectile spamming? Inarguably a bad place for any Ganondorf to be. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Long distance: Still of little good for Ganondorf, he can maybe hit with Wizard Foot if the opponent doesn't expect it, but that's about it. Rating: Uncomfortable
    • Medium distance: Here's where Ganondorf can start having his fun. He's equipped with many decently ranged moves to hit the opponent while not being too close, and most of them can set up or knock away. It's still dangerous here, but it's where Ganondorf needs to be most of the time. Rating: Bearable
    • Short distance: Similar to ROB, at this distance Ganondorf can still fight, but it's mostly to get the opponent off of him. Otherwise, Ganondorf risks losing what little control of the fight he has. He needs the distance to keep opponents from capitalizing on his sluggish movement. Rating: Bearable (But just barely...!)

  • Ganondorf - Killing
    • Killing power: It's what Ganondorf's about, and he's definitely good at it. They will take some timing though, so it's not necessarily easy, but when Ganondorf does land a finishing blow, that's usually it for most characters. Rating: Above Average
    • Gimping power: Fortunately for Ganondorf, his kill moves can also work to gimp foes pretty well. Spartan Kick comes to mind as Ganondorf just loves to boot unsuspecting people off-stage at an annoying angle. DAir destroys at a low percentage and UAir spikes characters to their doom. Finally, a Ganondorf on the ropes can drag eager opponents to their doom with a Flame Choke suicide. Rating: Above Average



Edit:

I thought of something while watching a vid. What exactly does stage-returning tactics constitute as? Does it fall within the Off-stage zone, or could it be considered a sort of zone on its own? Returning to the stage of edge of the stage is one thing, but actually getting around a readily edgeguarding opponent can be another issue, and methods greatly vary from character to character. How would this aspect be considered?
 
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DRaGZ

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I count recoveries as part of off-stage. This is why Snake is rated as Below Average in off-stage even though he can be a somewhat effective edgeguarder; his recovery in certain situations just plain sucks.

And by your analysis, Ganondorf is a 22. Hehehe.
 
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DRaGZ

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I've decided to add Anomilus's analysis of Ganondorf to these thingies, since I pretty much agree with it. If anyone has any other ones to add, please do so.
 
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DRaGZ

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DeDeDe really isn't. If it's an on-stage gimp, it's because he got very lucky, which a lot of characters can, and any sort of off-stage gimp he does is highly telegraphed and avoidable (provided the character's recovery you are using isn't below average) and can be avoided.
 
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Darth JoBak

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* Wolf - Zoning
o On the ground: Wolf's greatest strengths are here. Wolf needs to rack up damage for KOs and this is the place. Wolf's lazor and shield grab help tremendously for controlling approaches and AAtilts help to keep smashes fresh. FSmash doesnt outprioritize much but it helps to close gaps on characters with greater range. Rating: Above Average
o In the air: WoW. Wall of Wolf is an antiquated, outdated method of approach. Bair is still an excellent move and is great for keeping air happy opponents at bay. It is important in any matchup to control the air but like ROB and Ganondorf more often than not with wolf you are merely sending the opponent away. The reflector can set up dsmash KOs if it catches low arial opponent. Nair and Uair are situational moves useful vs specific character matchups. Rating: Average/Above average
o Off-stage: Get Back! Wolf's fall speed and minute upB sweetspot do not give wolf much time over the edge. Dair has terrible startup AND ending lag. Avoid those SDs by only bairing over the edge and sideB to return. Many Characters (DDD, MK, ROB, Falco CG, Pit arrow) can earn a early KO. The distance and speed of the wolf flash are the saving grace here. Rating: Below Average/terrible

* Wolf - Spacing
o Extreme long distance: Reflector is helpful but the wolf lazor is short, best to keep the pressure on. Rating: Bearable
o Long distance: Lazor and WoW approach are your friends here. This is where you can dance the line between aggressive and campy, waiting for the opening. FSmash comes into play here, used or not, they must be weary while they close the gap. At this distance telegraphed approaches can be reflectored. Rating: comfortable
o Medium distance: While wolf does not have superior range. Most moves come out pretty quick but wolf can be easily outranged in the air by many. it should be mentioned that wolf's dash grab is slow. Rating: Comfortable
o Short distance: Fast enough to be comfortable but many chars can CG or combo wolf well, best to keep them slightly at bay and on the moveRating: Bearable

* Wolf - Killing
o Killing power: Bair and Dsmash are two of wolf's best moves so it is up to the player to keep one of these fresh. A well spaced fsmash can do the trick but it is not reliable. ultimately the dsmash is easy to set up (low air reflecter to dsmash, A to dsmash) but if used as a damage builder then much more damage needs to be racked up. Rating: Above Average
o Gimping power: Dair just doesnt do it. Dair is too weak/lacks hitstun to kill at low percents, bair is just the better option. Depending on the opponent wolf can put up a small WoW over the edge and still sideB back but that tactic is telegraphed and often avoidable. Reflector can interrupt many upBs, but it has very little knockback. Rating: Terrible


I gave Wolf a 24, if you sniff bias point it out please


I am going take back my offer to do Samus, I am too new to her
 
D

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
Darth JoBak said:
* Wolf - Zoning
o On the ground: Wolf's greatest strengths are here. Wolf needs to rack up damage for KOs and this is the place. Wolf's lazor and shield grab help tremendously for controlling approaches and AAtilts help to keep smashes fresh. FSmash doesnt outprioritize much but it helps to close gaps on characters with greater range. Rating: Above Average
o In the air: WoW. Wall of Wolf is an antiquated, outdated method of approach. Bair is still an excellent move and is great for keeping air happy opponents at bay. It is important in any matchup to control the air but like ROB and Ganondorf more often than not with wolf you are merely sending the opponent away. The reflector can set up dsmash KOs if it catches low arial opponent. Nair and Uair are situational moves useful vs specific character matchups. Rating: Average/Above average
o Off-stage: Get Back! Wolf's fall speed and minute upB sweetspot do not give wolf much time over the edge. Dair has terrible startup AND ending lag. Avoid those SDs by only bairing over the edge and sideB to return. Many Characters (DDD, MK, ROB, Falco CG, Pit arrow) can earn a early KO. The distance and speed of the wolf flash are the saving grace here. Rating: Below Average/terrible

* Wolf - Spacing
o Extreme long distance: Reflector is helpful but the wolf lazor is short, best to keep the pressure on. Rating: Bearable
o Long distance: Lazor and WoW approach are your friends here. This is where you can dance the line between aggressive and campy, waiting for the opening. FSmash comes into play here, used or not, they must be weary while they close the gap. At this distance telegraphed approaches can be reflectored. Rating: comfortable
o Medium distance: While wolf does not have superior range. Most moves come out pretty quick but wolf can be easily outranged in the air by many. it should be mentioned that wolf's dash grab is slow. Rating: Comfortable
o Short distance: Fast enough to be comfortable but many chars can CG or combo wolf well, best to keep them slightly at bay and on the moveRating: Bearable

* Wolf - Killing
o Killing power: Bair and Dsmash are two of wolf's best moves so it is up to the player to keep one of these fresh. A well spaced fsmash can do the trick but it is not reliable. ultimately the dsmash is easy to set up (low air reflecter to dsmash, A to dsmash) but if used as a damage builder then much more damage needs to be racked up. Rating: Above Average
o Gimping power: Dair just doesnt do it. Dair is too weak/lacks hitstun to kill at low percents, bair is just the better option. Depending on the opponent wolf can put up a small WoW over the edge and still sideB back but that tactic is telegraphed and often avoidable. Reflector can interrupt many upBs, but it has very little knockback. Rating: Terrible


I gave Wolf a 24, if you sniff bias point it out please


I am going take back my offer to do Samus, I am too new to her
Click to expand...
I would actually say Wolf is simply below average off-stage. Sure, his Up+B is the worst of the space animals, but he has a loooot more variety of options for returning than the other two, making his recovery a lot harder to predict.

I would say he's above average aerially. B-air is just one of the best air moves in the game, and the f-air has a reach that catches a lot of people off-guard.

And I think his killing power is just average, but that's just me (I always have problems killing reliable whenever play Wolf, but then again, I'm not a particularly good Wolf).

I'll add this up when I feel like doing the formatting crap, lol.

ALSO...


I'm getting a lot of "DeDeDe's gimping should be higher"

I think it's average, but with this many responses I'm probably wrong. Could someone tell me why? I honestly think his off-stage gimping options aren't quick enough and his on-stage gimping options (i.e. getting off an f-smash or something) is almost sheer luck or stupidity on the opponent's part.
 
X

XienZo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,287
Well, his Bair's rather quick, and though its obvious, its huge and quick, so you can't actually do much about it if you have the wrong character.

For on-stage, his Down-B can be used on chars with predictable recoveries, especially those that don't grab the ledge. Its like the F-smash but mobile and with infinite charge.
 
D

DRaGZ

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
San Diego, CA
XienZo said:
Well, his Bair's rather quick, and though its obvious, its huge and quick, so you can't actually do much about it if you have the wrong character.

For on-stage, his Down-B can be used on chars with predictable recoveries, especially those that don't grab the ledge. Its like the F-smash but mobile and with infinite charge.
Click to expand...
Those tactics only work on characters with below average recoveries. If a character has decent recovery, he has several ways to get around this. Thus, DeDeDe's gimping ability is only average, imo.
 
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