The Elements of Brawl - Zoning, Spacing, Killing, and Surviving

[DRaGZ]

When Ice Climbers comes up, I'll be back.

Well, since you mention them, I might as well put them on the priority list (aside from Ness and Lucas, I am approaching the rest of the cast in a random fashion, lol).

*edits OP to put Ice Climbers on the priority list*

 

[lain]

Good ****. I'm probably one of the best (if not THE best) IC in the US right now, so I'll set this up good.

I'll get Anther to do the pikachu one too. Cause he's ****.

 

[DRaGZ]

Well, if you can get Anther to do it too, then I'll put Pikachu up on priority as well.

 

[Flayl]

Bump ?

 

[ZeroFox]

I thought you had Wolf filled out at one point. I could have sworn you did...

Oh well.

Anyways, great job on this thread. Nice to see the progress you're having. Keep up the good work!

 

[Charizard92]

OK, due to your numbers, I've decided to list characters (of the time of this post) on their ability at the elements of Brawl.

Meta Knight
Dedede
Snake-G&W-DK
Rob-(Charizard)
Falco-Diddy
Luigi-PT-(Squirtle)-Yoshi
Ike
Bowser
Ganondorf-C.Falcon
Fox
(Ivysaur)

Note: The order of ties is in the order of the Tier list at this time. Characters in Parenthesis are Branches of PT (because they can't fight alone, while Zelda/Shiek and Samus/ZSS can)

 

[DRaGZ]

I thought you had Wolf filled out at one point. I could have sworn you did...

Oh well.

Anyways, great job on this thread. Nice to see the progress you're having. Keep up the good work!

I did have Wolf, but it was grossly inaccurate. I will update a lot more after this week because I have midterms again, but after Thursday I'll have a lot more time and motivation to fill this out.

OK, due to your numbers, I've decided to list characters (of the time of this post) on their ability at the elements of Brawl.

Meta Knight
Dedede
Snake-G&W-DK
Rob-(Charizard)
Falco-Diddy
Luigi-PT-(Squirtle)-Yoshi
Ike
Bowser
Ganondorf-C.Falcon
Fox
(Ivysaur)

Note: The order of ties is in the order of the Tier list at this time. Characters in Parenthesis are Branches of PT (because they can't fight alone, while Zelda/Shiek and Samus/ZSS can)

Yeeeeeah...I'm surprised Fox is so low actually, but that's what they gave me. I'm going to take a look over that.

Everything else seems like where they should be, tbh.

 

[Charizard92]

Also, You don't have complete numbers, so Certain Characters can go lower, and we are talking about as low as dirt low. I'll check with The PT boards on Ivysaur, that just is weird.

 

[Xiivi]

To be honest I judged Fox off of the Top Tier characters, whereas it looks like other character write-ups seem to be written based off of the character alone without much regard to how they compare to the best of the best.

Such as Captain Falcon gimping potential vs King Dedede gimping potential. Honestly, who are you going to be more worried about gimping you? Saying "true knee is a gimp" is not a good assessment of Falcon's gimping potential. Looking at King Dedede's wall o' bair alone should make it more than obvious who's better with gimping.

I find a lot of the lower tiered characters are incorrect in comparison to the higher tiered characters. Far too much sugar-coating, exaggeration, and theory-crafting seems to come into play for those write-ups I see. The gap between Falco and Luigi is not 1 point. The gap between Falco and Yoshi is not 1 point. I'm sorry, but some of the lower tiered write-ups are completely off and need to be written more reliably and with the higher tiered characters in mind. Also some of the higher tiered characters could use a look-at too (If DDD's gimping potential is just "average" then most everyone else's needs to be "below average" or "terrible".)

I believe my assessment of Fox is fair in comparison to MK/Snake/DDD etc...

Just throwing that out there.

 

[ZeroFox]

I did have Wolf, but it was grossly inaccurate. I will update a lot more after this week because I have midterms again, but after Thursday I'll have a lot more time and motivation to fill this out.



Yeeeeeah...I'm surprised Fox is so low actually, but that's what they gave me. I'm going to take a look over that.

Everything else seems like where they should be, tbh.

Ah I see. Take your time with that.

I've always thought that Wolf and Fox are slight underrated. I wonder if this score card will prove that...

 

[DRaGZ]

To be honest I judged Fox off of the Top Tier characters, whereas it looks like other character write-ups seem to be written based off of the character alone without much regard to how they compare to the best of the best.

Such as Captain Falcon gimping potential vs King Dedede gimping potential. Honestly, who are you going to be more worried about gimping you? Saying "true knee is a gimp" is not a good assessment of Falcon's gimping potential. Looking at King Dedede's wall o' bair alone should make it more than obvious who's better with gimping.

I find a lot of the lower tiered characters are incorrect in comparison to the higher tiered characters. Far too much sugar-coating, exaggeration, and theory-crafting seems to come into play for those write-ups I see. The gap between Falco and Luigi is not 1 point. The gap between Falco and Yoshi is not 1 point. I'm sorry, but some of the lower tiered write-ups are completely off and need to be written more reliably and with the higher tiered characters in mind. Also some of the higher tiered characters could use a look-at too (If DDD's gimping potential is just "average" then most everyone else's needs to be "below average" or "terrible".)

I believe my assessment of Fox is fair in comparison to MK/Snake/DDD etc...

Just throwing that out there.

This is what I tell the boards. No one listens. In particular, the Yoshi boards and the Lucas boards have been particularly petulant about what is what. And I cannot dispute them myself because

1. That would be pulling off executive decision *******ery.
2. I don't know as much as they do.
3. I am also biased.

 

[Roager]

Feel free to drop some of the numbers down on my Falcon summary. I'm biased, I'll admit it. But I do think that Falcon's good at gimping. Flub knee to uair puts the enemy far down and away from the stage, and bair stage spike... meh. I dont wanna go into details right now.

Also, uh, bump, cuz this is a good thread, and once it gets more complete, I think it might be sticky-worthy.

 

[Flayl]

For bowser's gimping game please include bombing the ledge. I forgot about it because I personally don't use it, but that's really my fault.

 

[DRaGZ]

Feel free to drop some of the numbers down on my Falcon summary. I'm biased, I'll admit it. But I do think that Falcon's good at gimping. Flub knee to uair puts the enemy far down and away from the stage, and bair stage spike... meh. I dont wanna go into details right now.

Also, uh, bump, cuz this is a good thread, and once it gets more complete, I think it might be sticky-worthy.

Okay, I will look into that as well. After Thursday. Everything after Thursday.

For bowser's gimping game please include bombing the ledge. I forgot about it because I personally don't use it, but that's really my fault.

Yeah...I was wondering about that, but I didn't know enough of Bowser to bring it up tbh.

 

[xzerolegend]

Good work! I was wanting to make something like this for awhile. Seems i was far to late.

 

[Flayl]

We're still missing a bunch of characters for this.

 

[AzNsAnTaGiN]

A bump, mostly as a hope that more characters will be added. Marth. Cough.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I can post Marth's right now.

[Edit] - Marth's overall should add up to 35.

On the ground: Marth has a lot of tools for his ground game. Jabs stop short range approaches. DTilt forces short hops and pressures shields. FTilt resets a lot of situations and is decently strong. Rating: Above Average

In the air: Marth is the king of aerials in a sense. His Fair zones well, resets situations, and does great damage. If done correctly, it can setup a fairly nice wall combined with other moves. Retreating only makes it better. Uair is pretty strong when tipped and fresh, and can juggle for a decent amount of time. Rating: Awesome

Off-stage: His off-stage zoning is above average. Two Fair can safely pressure and gimp off-stage. Bair is a great killer off the side. Dair is a great meteor when tipped. Rating: Above Average
--------------------------------------
Extreme long distance : Nothing, no projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable

Long distance : Once again, lack of projectiles. Rating: Uncomfortable

Medium distance : FTilt is great at this distance. It stops short hop approaches and does decent knockback. Rating: Bearable

Short distance : Ah, Marth excels yet again! His Jab are great when the opponent gets in your face. DTilt pressures shield like hell, and forces short hops. Then, FTilt for those pesky approaches. Marth can out zone a LARGE amount of the cast this way. Rating: Comfortable.
--------------------------------------
Killing power: When tipped, Marth's kill moves are badass. UTilt, Usmash, and Dsmash are vertical killers in the 120s. Tippered Fsmash can kill ridiculously low. Bair, used fresh, can kill of the side around 100%. UpB OoS is sexy. Rating: Above Average

Gimping Potential: On a lot of the cast, Two Fairs and its a rap. Bair can gimp fairly well if not fresh. Rating: Above Average

 

[AzNsAnTaGiN]

I was under the impression that Marth was one of the best gimpers in the game?
Perhaps not..

 

[Pr0phetic]

Considering the cast he is, but on the rating system its above average. This is taking into account all the multi-jump characters, as where D3 or MK just **** anyone off-stage.