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The Donkey Kong Cheat Sheet - Match-Ups at a Glance!

crifer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Germany, Koblenz
You shouldn't judge the MU from those matches. And Fox' fair doesn't destroy any character, lol.
Will needs to SDI more; you get out of Fox' dair and fair pretty easy.
The videos give a good Idea how the matchup can be. And did you know Will has beaten nakat in the tournament before? It´s not like Will played the MU the first time.
And if you watch the vids carefully, you´ll realize that Will tries to SDI the fair and dair. Will played the 2nd match better than the first, but I´m pretty sure it´s 60:40.
 

DKwill

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
1,232
Location
Planking the ledge 185 times over.
3DS FC
3497-1934-6087
Sup guys, I would just like to say that... my match vs Nakat is pretty hard for me to watch. I did watch it again once though, and I realized this: I was playing the matchup more like he was falco than fox. You'll notice that I attempted to grounded up b as an approach several times and was punished for it repeatedly xD

Also, instead of applying pressure by zoning at all times, I camped and tried to charge punch, which is not such a smart thing to do vs lasers.

I'm looking forward to the next time I play Nakat to redeem myself and have a muchhhh closer set. I also practiced with Rookie several days after that set to make sure that I knew how to properly edge guard fox- since getting him off the stage and making him eat b-airs is probably the most important thing to know how to do in that matchup!
 

Jebu-95

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
338
Location
Finland
Interesting... I've deffinitely underestimated Fox in the past as well.

What do you guys think about stages to strike against Fox? I've only once played against Fox in a competitive setting. This was at a tournament against a random Fox main. The first match was played at battlefield, where he 2-stocked me. I noticed how he several times attempted to get me onto the platforms (U-Throws, U-Tilt juggles) where he would pressure me with Fairs and other aerials. Before the second match I decided to play gay and picked up my pocket Pikachu and CGd his *** off at Castle Siege. I went back to DK before the decisive match of that set and Brinstar was selected by him (lolwut?). This time I won him thanks to a bit of practice on that stage.
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
1,285
Location
Dallas, Texas
Figuring out how to approach fox is one of the hardest aspects of the matchup. Our approaching options against him feel really stale sometimes considering how good he is at punishing them. Rushing him down does not work, his dair and fair are safe on shield and his close-up game is much faster than ours. As Will said we have to space him out at all times and bait his aerials which takes a lot of patience.

Edgeguarding him can be difficult considering how good he is at stalling, if he can make it back to the stage with just his mid-air jump i would advise being less aggressive because he has too many options. If he has to use phantasm though our goal should be to wall him out with bair and or pressure him into using his up-b, which we can punish easily.

Overall i'd say its 55:45 - 60:40 in foxes favor, the only notable foxes ive played are Alpha and ultimate razer.
 

NAKAT

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
2,436
Location
In Belleville NJ, with Leap of Faith
Sup guys, I would just like to say that... my match vs Nakat is pretty hard for me to watch. I did watch it again once though, and I realized this: I was playing the matchup more like he was falco than fox. You'll notice that I attempted to grounded up b as an approach several times and was punished for it repeatedly xD

Also, instead of applying pressure by zoning at all times, I camped and tried to charge punch, which is not such a smart thing to do vs lasers.

I'm looking forward to the next time I play Nakat to redeem myself and have a muchhhh closer set. I also practiced with Rookie several days after that set to make sure that I knew how to properly edge guard fox- since getting him off the stage and making him eat b-airs is probably the most important thing to know how to do in that matchup!
You and your boys are discussing stage strikes and things to counter me! How could you all! Ggs Will after seeing you guys talk about gimping me so much I'm gonna go practice not letting you get me offstage lmao! GL in our next set though no DK punches allowed though!
 

Cable

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
1,440
Location
Fusion Chamber , New Jersey
You and your boys are discussing stage strikes and things to counter me! How could you all! Ggs Will after seeing you guys talk about gimping me so much I'm gonna go practice not letting you get me offstage lmao! GL in our next set though no DK punches allowed though!
Get out of here Nakat LOL! Hope you havnt forgot about me you still want that revenge. And I look forward for our next rematch dnt worry I have a few tricks against fox I want to show you :) I want to kill fox like there going to kill naruto in the manga LOLOL
 

crifer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Germany, Koblenz
lol Neon! fox dair is not safe at all. you can easily shield grab it (even though our (I mean DK´s) shield sucks).
I recommend retreating bairs in order to beat bair, dair and grabs.

Fox is really good on neutrals (SV, BF, FD) and halberd.
Some Fox players have problems with lylat and yoshi´s island. Brinstar and Delfino could work.
 

NAKAT

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
2,436
Location
In Belleville NJ, with Leap of Faith
lol Neon! fox dair is not safe at all. you can easily shield grab it (even though our (I mean DK´s) shield sucks).
I recommend retreating bairs in order to beat bair, dair and grabs.

Fox is really good on neutrals (SV, BF, FD) and halberd.
Some Fox players have problems with lylat and yoshi´s island. Brinstar and Delfino could work.
Brinstar and Delfino are sexy stages.
Get out of here Nakat LOL! Hope you havnt forgot about me you still want that revenge. And I look forward for our next rematch dnt worry I have a few tricks against fox I want to show you :) I want to kill fox like there going to kill naruto in the manga LOLOL
I will never leave. I will be the demon embodied in this thread that will haunt you for the rest of your life! You and Will wanna jump me yo it's ok your tricks won't work on me because I am the son of god!
 

wwwilliam0024

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
254
Location
In a little island called D.R
I dont think Will played the best he could... first of all his approaches werent the right ones for a Fox, what really destroys DK is the fact that Fox can jump over us and come down on us with any attack or the damn drill.. Bair is not really a good approach vs Fox, you need to make sure to CATCH him in the air, thats his weak spot, when he tries to maneuver over us, we have to take advantage of that..
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
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Location
INKY
Maybe if everyone started calling you Broccoli Kong?

lol Neon! fox dair is not safe at all. you can easily shield grab it (even though our (I mean DK´s) shield sucks).
I recommend retreating bairs in order to beat bair, dair and grabs.

Fox is really good on neutrals (SV, BF, FD) and halberd.
Some Fox players have problems with lylat and yoshi´s island. Brinstar and Delfino could work.
DK's grab sucks too! Ours is frame 8 :(. Can we still shield grab it?

As for stages, I agree with all of the above except maybe Delfino. Brinstar sounds idea. Laser camping is less effective, and the acid can create a lot of opportunities to kill, which doesn't seem that easy if he's playing safe. The problem with Delfino I see is that stage has some stupid low ceilings. I saw Will kill a MK with a half charged d-smash at 48% there! Also, I have almost no experience in this match-up. Just speculating on these stages.

Get out of here Nakat LOL! Hope you havnt forgot about me you still want that revenge. And I look forward for our next rematch dnt worry I have a few tricks against fox I want to show you :) I want to kill fox like there going to kill naruto in the manga LOLOL
omg lol, Cable making some death threats.
 

¿Qué?

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
2,854
Location
Laredo, TX
I think it's 60/40 fox??

I'm not sure. All I know is that Fox's triple short hop laser thingy can totally refresh his whole move set, and can kill Donkey Kong ridiculously early.

45/55 Fox at best.


:peach:
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
1,285
Location
Dallas, Texas
I'd like to bring up a lesser known matchup that can actually be quite hard for us considering he's a low tier: Link. After playing with aero link the past couple of weekends I realized how difficult it can be to approach him. The matchup is similar to toon link except this one will be played closer to the ground, link kills faster and has more range on a lot of moves, his grab is also more useful for punishing mispaced bairs. His recovery is worse and he's slower overall but he lives longer, overall I'd say its 55:45 in our favor.
 

Jebu-95

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
338
Location
Finland
I'd like to bring up a lesser known matchup that can actually be quite hard for us considering he's a low tier: Link. After playing with aero link the past couple of weekends I realized how difficult it can be to approach him. The matchup is similar to toon link except this one will be played closer to the ground, link kills faster and has more range on a lot of moves, his grab is also more useful for punishing mispaced bairs. His recovery is worse and he's slower overall but he lives longer, overall I'd say its 55:45 in our favor.
Interesting. I deffinitely agree on the approaching part.
Too bad that those few decent Links I know never use that character against me.
The only good Link player that lives close to me is Izaw (Sweden), whom I might be playing in the near or not-so-near future.

Just as a side-note... Dont you guys think that we should discuss more of the high-tier MU's?
While Snake, Marth, DDD and Wario have been covered pretty well, I have seen nothing or very little talk about characters like Pikachu, Olimar, ZSS, Lucario, IC, and GW.
The stuff about MK seems pretty outdated as well.
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
1,285
Location
Dallas, Texas
Interesting. I deffinitely agree on the approaching part.
Too bad that those few decent Links I know never use that character against me.
The only good Link player that lives close to me is Izaw (Sweden), whom I might be playing in the near or not-so-near future.

Just as a side-note... Dont you guys think that we should discuss more of the high-tier MU's?
While Snake, Marth, DDD and Wario have been covered pretty well, I have seen nothing or very little talk about characters like Pikachu, Olimar, ZSS, Lucario, IC, and GW.
The stuff about MK seems pretty outdated as well.
The zss matchup used to be listed as even but I'm pretty sure its a little worse than that for us. She can be difficult to approach but our main problem is how well she can punish our mistakes. Uair is rediculous at juggling, side-b/ dash attack can make it difficult to land and if she lands a dsmash on the ledge its a free KO if we dont have our 2nd jump.

Spacing in this matchup is a little different than others, we want to get close but not too close b/c her jab is 1 frame and combos very well. I'd advise edgeguarding semi-aggressively considering how dangerous her down-b is. I'm pretty sure we have a 2-3 CG on her followed by f-tilt which is great for racking damage. Maybe I've just been playing too many wifi zss's but I feel like it's slightly in her favor.
Zero suit's I've played recently : Shlike, FK
 

crifer

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
1,078
Location
Germany, Koblenz
ZSS is freaking stupid.
You have to realize that she has NOT a single good approach and relays on zoning, spacing and somehow camping. Camp her back, charge your punch. shield/spotdodge her sideB/NeutralB, punch her. If she´s on the ledge she is very limited and bair, walking away fsmash covers a lot of her options.
If you outcamp her you win. (that´s why she sucks against falco, fox wins even though she has a dsmash lock etc.)
 

juankmlo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
24
Location
Bucaramanga - Colombia
Dear smashboards....f$%&/ you, DK - sheik its 4 real a 70/30 dk losing , sheik can ****ing 50 or 60% DK as easy as you say **** :S , really am angry cause isaw is kicking my *** so hard with just 2 ir 3 combos 1 stock, YEAH BRAWL HAS COMBOS!!! and they aim DK
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
you should probably try up-bing to get out of those f-tilts
 

juankmlo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
24
Location
Bucaramanga - Colombia
you should probably try up-bing to get out of those f-tilts
i do, but to even start the move dk has to be higher enough to fall very lag and again punish :( , really man, is so anoying please focus topic to know how to erradicate sheik!!!

b air works good sometimes, but just a few, cause sheik can dodge air to get in and ppunosh dk since he loses at speed
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
BRoomer
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Dear smashboards....f$%&/ you, DK - sheik its 4 real a 70/30 dk losing , sheik can ****ing 50 or 60% DK as easy as you say **** :S , really am angry cause isaw is kicking my *** so hard with just 2 ir 3 combos 1 stock, YEAH BRAWL HAS COMBOS!!! and they aim DK
It's our favor. Our first 90% is free. Sheik has high damage strings, and some combos, on nearly ever character in the game, so relatively it's really not that bad. F-tilt repeatedly is not the scary combo. Sheik shouldn't be able to f-tilt more than around 4 times max if you're DIing correctly and buffering up-b. What Sheik really does to DK is combo for a bit, and then reset it with a frame trap. F-tilt x 3 > u-tilt/f-air> more aerials or grabs and stuff.

Ideally Sheik should be getting you up to somewhere around 70%-90% before you stop being juggled. That's really cool, but Sheik shouldn't be killing us before 160% unless we do something really stupid. It only takes us about 4 good reads in a stock to kill Sheik.

My biggest tip in this match-up honestly should be to stay out of the air. Second tip would be to not f-tilt. Sheik is incredibly good at punishing, even well spaced f-tilts can be punished and b-air leaves you in an undesirable position. Moves like down-b and up-b are incredible here. They do great damage and there's a lot of situations where you can more or less force Sheik to get hit by them (when she's landing for one).

Oh, and take the match-up slow. Don't run at them, don't jump every time you hit them into the air.

Edit: Do you know how to DI entirely? DI up and towards Sheik when being f-tilted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhy29SGkDU
This might be helpful.
 

juankmlo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
24
Location
Bucaramanga - Colombia
It's our favor. Our first 90% is free. Sheik has high damage strings, and some combos, on nearly ever character in the game, so relatively it's really not that bad. F-tilt repeatedly is not the scary combo. Sheik shouldn't be able to f-tilt more than around 4 times max if you're DIing correctly and buffering up-b. What Sheik really does to DK is combo for a bit, and then reset it with a frame trap. F-tilt x 3 > u-tilt/f-air> more aerials or grabs and stuff.

Ideally Sheik should be getting you up to somewhere around 70%-90% before you stop being juggled. That's really cool, but Sheik shouldn't be killing us before 160% unless we do something really stupid. It only takes us about 4 good reads in a stock to kill Sheik.

My biggest tip in this match-up honestly should be to stay out of the air. Second tip would be to not f-tilt. Sheik is incredibly good at punishing, even well spaced f-tilts can be punished and b-air leaves you in an undesirable position. Moves like down-b and up-b are incredible here. They do great damage and there's a lot of situations where you can more or less force Sheik to get hit by them (when she's landing for one).

Oh, and take the match-up slow. Don't run at them, don't jump every time you hit them into the air.

Edit: Do you know how to DI entirely? DI up and towards Sheik when being f-tilted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMhy29SGkDU
This might be helpful.
SAME RESULTS.....i do good di, but still is ****ing impossible, down tilt sucks against her, i mean, no punish but its useless, up b takes too much time to start :( FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
 

holyv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 22, 2011
Messages
454
Location
Brazil
throw fireballs from a distance.
I ****ing lol'ed hard.

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oh wait
WHY I NEVER KNEW THAT IT WAS A LUCAS GRAB RELEASE

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man, nice info, dk is pretty good anyways!
 
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