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The Donkey Kong Cheat Sheet - Match-Ups at a Glance!

Justin Wiles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
304
Location
Halifax, NS
THE MATCH-UP CHEAT SHEET FOR Y'ALL DK!

The ultimate goal: To create a "cheat sheet" of sorts for DK's match-ups. If you think you've got the right ratio, post it... but let's focus on tactics. Thanks!

Okay, here's how you do it.
Only you can prevent forest fires, and only you can make DK the ****** that he deserves to be. YOU need to build a tree of knowledge for DKs everywhere to eat from. SO. Instead of being lame and doing this week to week...

LAY DOWN ALL YOUR INFO YOU GOT. SHARE!

It should look like this:

ZSS: 70:30 DK's Favour. Never approach through the air, throw fireballs from a distance.

Write as much or as little as you want. If someone feels like you're wrong, I guess they'll correct you! Instead of trying to cover one single character 100%, let's start out with a little bit on everyone and let it grow.


Got that? Good. I'm counting on you.

Thank you for contributing:
Bigfoot
Tujex
Ripple
Raziek
Nysyarc
MJG
Big O
Luigi Player
Will
 

Justin Wiles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
304
Location
Halifax, NS
VS MetaKnight
40/60
- Save F tilt for beating Tornado (tilt up).
- Don't let him get below you at all.
- D tilt, Ground Pound and spaced Bairs all work well.
- Rising Bairs go over his head if he's on the ground, so don't do that okay?
- His full F tilt D smash are punishable on shield.
- Punch > Glide Attack. If you're elite, 9 Wind his ***.

VS Solid Snake
50/50
- Ground Pound lots.
- You can Sheild Grab his landing after he Cyphers, or SA Africa Punch him if you have one stocked (probably the better option).
- If he is recovering below the stage, Dair spike him; the Cypher will all ways pop you back up so you can recover, no matter how low it is. If you happen to miss, you can do it again!

VS Diddy Kong
45/55
- Go for gimps with your Roflcopter ledgestall or Bair him to death.
- Throw bananas at your feet, as he may roll into them.

VS Falco Lombardi
45/55
- Let him camp you for the first 40% so he can't chaingrab you.
- Never roll behind him, or you'll get the sweet spot on his Fsmash.
- Keep him mid-range at all times; don't let him get too far our he'll just start camping again.
- Down Smash ***** his Side B recovery; get the timing down and you'll go through his hitbox, at worst you'll trade hits.

VS Popo & Nana
45/55
- Ground Pound a lot to separate them.
- Grab Nana, toss her away; Fsmash her as she runs back to Popo.
- Up B is a great approach and wrecks their shield. But, if you do it carelessly, you will get grabbed.
- Bair and F tilt are generally safe.

VS Prince Marth
50/50
- Don't gimp, but ledge pressure is ****.
- Don't let him get too close on the ground.
- Stay away from ledges unless you're being juggled, then try to get to a ledge to escape.
- Bair beats his Fair; if the Marth knows this, watch out for his Counter.
- He can counter your Up B, and he can also Dair you out of it if he's a keener, be alert! If you don't mix up your recover, you'll get wrecked.
- Dolphin Slash (Up B) has invincibility frames at the beginning, also watch out for it OOS if he blocks an attack. If he wiffs, you should be able to punish it.
- Shield grab Dancing Blade (Forward B) after the 3rd hit.

VS Wario
40/60
- Don't get grabbed.
- Pivot grab a lot. You can grab release him into a variety of moves (someone refresh me here)
- Bair lots to keep him away, and don't let him get above you.

VS King Dedede
10/90
- Bend over.
- Honestly, you should have a secondary for this guy.
- Are you listening?
- Okay, okay: Only fight if walking/infinite CG is banned.
- Keep him in the air as much as possible. Get him off stage and edge guard AGGRESSIVELY.
- Don't be afraid to run, make him come to you. If you are winning, abuse your superiour mobility.
- CP platform stages to avoid the CG.
- Abuse his Up B landing lag with a short hop Headbutt. If he fumbles, you can fully charge F/D Smash or 9 Wind him.
- Only well spaced Tilts and Rising Bairs are safe on block!

VS Pikachu
45/55
- Play near the edges.
- Grab and try to get offstage, pressure with Bairs to build damage.

VS Pikmin & Olimar
40/60
- Hit him on his landing.
- Use Ground Pound and Roflcopter lots to approach on the ground.
- Get him in the air and juggle him, but watch out for the SA on his Whistle.
- When he's offstage, wait for his second jump than Bair.
- He has no Grab Armour, so you can jab him before the Pikmin gets you.
- Never let him get under you.

VS Lucario
60/40
- Spacing and ledge pressure make him lose his boner.
- All ways look for a Punch around 70-90% so he doesn't get dangerous. Momentum is key!

VS Mr. Game and Watch
60/40
- Stay on the ground and grab lots. Your Smashes/Tilts outrange his.
- Don't go for gimps.
- Utilt beats all his airs if you time it properly.

VS Pit
45/55
- Hitting him out of his Up B leaves him helpless.
- His Shield can reverse your Up B and his Dtilt spikes, be careful when recovering.
- Get on him and don't let up, get past those arrows with your Powar Shield.
- Bair and Ground Pound are your best friends.
- Don't get CG'd. Play extremely safe.

VS Toon Link
50/50
- Punch ***** his ground game.
- Completely avoid him if he has a bomb.
- As long as he doesn't have a bomb, you can hit his shield with anything if you space properly.
- F-tilt works great. Beats out all projectiles except Bomb.
- Shield his spin (loop?), then punish.
- Never get above him, Uair is ridiculous. Avoid chasing him in the air, be patient and punish his landings.
- Keep a close distance as projectile spam will occur if he gets the chance.
- Watch for patterns in his Zair usage.

VS Samus Aran
60/40
- Be patient and stay close, or get spammed.

VS Zero Suit Samus Aran
50/50
- Throw the armour pieces away ASAP, unless you absolutely know how to use them.
- Never jump in or roll.
- Space well, and be mindful of her Forward B range.
- Foxtrot shield and punish, VS shield she can't do much.
- Don't try to gimp.
- Watch out for D Smash/Kick Flip Spike on the ledge.

VS Kirby
55/45
- Never approach this prick.
- Stay in the air and Bair all day.

VS R.O.B.
50/50
- Juggle, he sucks approaching from above. Keep him in the air!
- Grab lots.
- Pressure him on the ledge, but never try to gimp him.
- All ways have a Punch stocked at higher percents.

VS Your Evil Twin Brother
??/??
- Toss this mysterious ape offstage and go for a spike/Headbutt depending on how he tries to come back.
- DK definitely wins this match-up.

VS Princess Peach
50/50
- Don't let her get above you.
- Space lots and Bair lots.
- Go for early kills, but don't try to gimp. ALL WAYS keep a Punch stocked.

VS Fox McCloud
50/50
- Roflcopter pressure to approach.
- Grab and get him offstage.
- Bair goes through his Up/Forward B.
- SDI everything, or he will wreck you. His drill kick combos into grab/U Smash, but most Fox's abuse it so it's easy to see coming.

VS Luigi
55/45
- Keep him well spaced at all times. F Tilt all day!
- Try to get him off stage and pressure with Bair.

VS Wolf O'Donnell
50/50
- Force him offstage as much as possible.
- Try to gimp, even if you don't kill, you'll rack up mad damage. Just be careful of sweet-spotted Side B.
- Power Shield his lasers and it's cake. Avoid the lasers and his Shine at all costs.

VS Princess Zelda
60/40
- Don't jump, never jump! Beat her on the ground.
- SDI doesn't work because DK has a big frame.
- Avoid D Tilt to F/U Smash or Fair. F Tilt to keep her in line, and stay within that range.

VS Sheik
55/45
- Space your Bairs and Punch and you'll rawk.
- Up B out of her F Tilt and you can land lagless on platforms.
- Grab release DACUS will **** you, avoid mashing the jump button to break from grabs.

VS Pokemon Trainer
??/??
SQUIRTLE
- Never approach.
- Grab when he comes from the ground. Can someone confirm that we have a CG here?
- Tilts/Bair when he comes from the air.
- He is very hard to punish, you may want to wait him out.
IVYSAUR
- Gimp this *******.
CHARIZARD
- Space Bairs and stay on the move. Play normally.

VS Sonic the Hedgehog
60/40
- Space Bairs.
- Grab gimps work well.
- Get him off the ground and try to keep him in the air.
- If he Spin Dashes into your shield and jumps, it's a free Uair!

VS Ness
60/40
- Grab release this *******.
- Only Bair if he does rising aerials. Stay on the ground.

VS King Koopa
60/40
- Bair him lots and punish his landings.
- Watch out for that stupid claw.

VS Lucas
65/35
- Grab release this *******.
- Stay on the ground, all ways!

VS Ike
55/45
- If you shield his Quickdraw, it's a free smash of your choice. But honestly, a good Ike shouldn't be using this to attack you.
- If you grab him near the ledge after 70% or so, go for an underhand cargo away from the stage, free stock.
- Bair does NOT outrange his Fair. Space with F/D Tilt and avoid his Jab combo.
- F/D Smash and Punch knock him out of Aether. If your timing is supreme, you can F Tilt him out of Aether before he grabs the ledge.
- Be careful when recovering, his Bair and Aether will knock you out of your Roflcopter. If you get Aether spiked, don't expect to get back.

VS Yoshi
60/40
- Go for footstool gimps more-so than aerials off stage.
- Keep mid-range spacing; avoid U/F smash, and you will live forever.
- Keep a Punch stocked around %140 in case he goes for an Up Smash.
- Avoid his grab at all costs and pivot grab him.
- If he Egg Lays you, don't press shield, mash jump and the stick.
- You can't really clash his Egg projectile, just avoid them.

VS Mario
60/40
- All ways recover high!
- If he jumps, Bair. If he starts camping, Bair!
- Space and punish him on the ground with basic stuff. Watch out for F Smash, he can stutter step it for mad reach.

VS Captain Douglas Jay Falcon
60/40
- Never jump, never approach, especially from the air; if he finds an opening, it's not too hard for him to combo you into a knee, which is bad.
- Falcons loves spot dodging. Ground Pound pwns all spot dodges and rolls.
- Be campy as Hell.
- You clash or outrange pretty much everything he can throw at you on the ground.
- His Knee and Bair can knock you out of your Up B pretty reliably, stay frosty.

VS Jigglypuff
70/30
- Keep well spaced, Bair lots.
- Up Smash OOS if they Rising Pound your shield. Kills at 70%
- D Smash kills at 85%.

VS Link
55/45
- Stay away until he doesn't have a bomb.
- Grab lots.
- Get him offstage and pressure.

VS Ganondorf
65/35
- Camp this *******, he relies on punishes and reads.
- He can't really punish your rolls, but avoid spotdodging.
 

Justin Wiles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
304
Location
Halifax, NS
Here is an EXCELLENT example of how to post:

hey, I kinda noticed a lot of dks I know don't know their matchups, so, because i've been around since release and played pretty much every character multiple times, I figured I'd give you my short-hand notes on every character, particularly the obscure/****ty ones

if gimping isn't mentioned, you should go for gimps or ledge pressure (space fsmash while they're on the ledge) regularly

ZSS - can't do much vs shields, one recent trick I found is to never jump in or roll, just foxtrot shields, and punish, and she can't do much about it on the ground. don't try to gimp

Zelda - Don't jump. ever. beat her on the ground or you'll wind up getting usmashed

Yoshi - foostools gimp more than your aerials, just space him out and always keep a punch stocked when you're over 140 in case he goes for a usmash

Wolf - force him offstage as much as possible, try to gimp, might not work but you rack up a lot of damage while he's off there. powershield lasers, it's easy against him.

Wario - don't get grabbed, pivot grab a lot and keep him away with bair, don't let him above you

Toon link - shield his full loop and then punish after that. punch ***** his ground game, and if he doesn't have a bomb you can hit his shield with anything really so long as you space right. ftilt is good here

Sonic - space bairs, grab gimps work better than your normal stuff, get him off the ground and try to keep him up

Snake - downb a lot, shield grab landings

Sheik - i dunno, I just space bairs/punch and i've yet to lose to one

Samus - same as sheik, DI is important cause she can't really kill, don't gimp

R.O.B. - juggle, don't gimp, grab a lot/ledge pressure, keep punch stocked at high %

PT - don't approach squirtle, just kinda grab when he comes on the ground and tilt/bair when he comes form the air, charizard is all bair spacing, move a lot against him. not sure on ivysaur, i try to gimp him but outside of that i don't really have a plan

Pit - no clue, ****ing annoying

Pikachu - grab -> through offstage -> try to bair, it works well. other than that no idea, we have like 1 pika here

Peach - don't let her above you, space a lot and go for early kills, don't gimp

olimar - hit on the landing, upb/downb a lot. when he's offstage wait for his second jump, then bair

ness - I just grab release infinite since they only ban the marth one. if it's banned, i dunno space bairs?

mk - too much to write

Marth - hit on landing, don't gimp (ledge pressure ***** though) basic spacing outside of that. don't let him too close on the ground

Mario - recover high, if he jumps, back air, on the ground space and punish, he kinda sucks on the ground

Luigi - keep him away, get him offstage and bair a lot

Lucas - see ness

Lucario - space, ledge pressure, always look for punches around 70-90 so he doesn't get dangerous

Link - grab a lot, throw him offstage and follow up, just shield his bombs and crap because he can't do much else

Kirby - don't approach at all

King DDD - no clue, I main snake because of him

Jiggs - similar to luigi but she dies earlier

Ike - bait and punish, space out the jabs? we don't really have one and I just go for gimps a lot. don't gimp if he's near the stage

Ice climbers - downb, throw nana away, fsmash her as she runs back to popo

ganon - camp, spotdodge a lot

Game and watch - stay on the ground, grab a lot, don't gimp. utilt beats all his air stuff if you do it right

fox - upb pressure for approaches. really i just go for grabs and try to get him offstage/gimp. he has some tricks offstage, but it really doesn't help too much. bair goes through his side/upb. most foxes are dumb and still dair your shield, just shieldgrab it. I could write a whole long guide on him and falco but it'd take too long

Falco - similar to fox but gimping doesn't work as well. platform camp the first 40% and keep him away, but if you let him too far away he'll just start camping. you'll know where you should be when you get there.

DK - dthrow offstage and either spike or sideb depending on how he comes back

Diddy - abuse SA, hit him on landing, go for lots of gimps with the upb ledge stall/bair

Falcon - don't jump, don't approach wait for his spotdodges on the ground. get a % lead and play campy as hell

bowser - bair a lot and hit him with smashes when he lands, watch out for sideb


I did all of them just in case, but I'm pretty sure the only useful information is on ZSS, Zelda, Yoshi, Wario, the space animals, Toon Link, Mario bros, Kirby, ICs, Jiggs, DK, diddy falcon and bowser.

anyway, have fun
This is all great info to build on, we'll start here!
 

Tujex

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
Messages
576
Location
Memphis. TN
Justin's DDD advice was godly.

I don't know about all these match-ups but I know a few.

T.Link: Can be outspaced. Takes forever to kill us, so take advantage of it. Never get above him in air...Uair is ridiculous. Always be on guard as if there's ever any distance between you....projectile spam will occur.

Wolf: Powershield lasers as much as possible, once you get through those your good. Pressure off stage as much as possible, but be wary of sweetspotted SideB's and if he hits you correctly with UpB it can mess you pretty bad. Always remember he has invincibility frames on reflector startup...which may or may not become a pain in the rear.

DDD: Try to keep him in the air....that's what works best for me. One of the only matches where I actually "run" away from my opponent. Approaching him at all isn't safe...so try to bring him to you if at all possible. Use platforms to avoid CG's. But the best advice....pick another character unless you don't mind frustratingly difficult fights.

Pit: Remember that hitting him out his UpB leaves him helpless. His mirror shield can gimp our UpB...not to mention Dtilt can spike. Nair and Uair rack up good damage, but all-in-all I think DK has him beat out offensively. Once you get in on pit, it's hard for him to get you off if you know what he can do and what to watch out for. Powershield arrows if possible...you can also bait arrows if its a particularly spammy Pit. Bair and DownB are my best friend in this match.

Captain Falcon: Falcon's spot dodge a lot....DownB pwns all rolls/dodges. I try to never approach from the air as its easy for him to get something off and combo it into a knee that way...and that's the last thing you want. You can clash or outrange basically anything he can throw at you on the ground though.

Umm...that's all I can think of now...lol.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
I don't know why we were just told that we have to finish our match up data but whatever...

I'll write a number to every character I know for sure but nothing else. these never get finished anyway
 

Justin Wiles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
304
Location
Halifax, NS
We don't have to finish ****, let me put it this way: I don't care about numbers, but I do care about missing match-up advice.

I come on these boards a lot of the time seeking advice on a particular match-up. It'd be handy to have an index like that. But you're right, if we discuss it one character at a time it'll take forever and we won't get **** done.

So tl;dr - Share what you want to share, I will insert it into the main post so that it is more easily accessed.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
9,626
Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
NNID
Raziek
3DS FC
3866-8131-5247
Good stuff Justin, but I personally disagree with 60/40 in the Marth matchup. >_>

From the Marth boards (though it is slightly outdated, I think it's still accurate):

Donkey Kong 50:50 Even

Summary:

DK's power and range even this match up, though I personally feel Marth may have a slight advantage. This is yet another match where you must focus on getting inside his tilts and then give him ZERO room to breath. You must stay on him or you may give him enough space to zone you again (usually with ftilts, dtilts, and maybe his down b).

If you block something from DK, you should be able to punish it unless he is retreating a bair. If DK jumps at you with his back towards you it is pretty easy to see what is coming, the bair will beat your fair so you should probably just counter; don't be too predictable with it though.

Marth outclasses DK in terms of edge guarding, his recovery is pretty one-dimensional and you can counter his up b every time... you can also attempt to dair him to put him out of his misery.

DK will be playing a keep away game while your goal is to limit these options and aggro him pretty hard. His fsmash will kill you very early, if you miss an up b you are pretty much screwed, so be careful.

END MARTH BOARD POST

At any rate, it's mo def not a disadvantage for us. That title is reserved for Dedede and MK. So at least we share a common enemy. :D
 

Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
3,389
Location
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
NNID
Nysyarc
3DS FC
1075-0983-2504
Good stuff Justin. I'd just like to point out though that any good Ike player would never use QD as an attack/approach, so that bit of info is a little misleading. I think the match-up is closer to 55-45 DK's favor, or even 50-50. Use DK's Dsmash, Fsmash or Africa Paunch to hit Ike out of Aether. You can even Dair/Fair spike him out of Aether if you're feeling ambitious. Watch out for Ike's Bair when you're recovering though; Bair and Aether both work very well against the Roflcopter, and one Aetherpsike = DK cannot recover.

Otherwise it's a spacing game. Your Bair doesn't outrange Ike's Fair, but I believe it does outrange Ike's Nair. The only thing you need to worry about on the ground are Ike's jabs. Keep your distance and space with Dtilts and Ftilts.


:034:
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
ZSS - (never played a ZSS in tournament) 50-50?

Zelda - SDI doesn't work against her since we have a big frame. avoid d-tilt to f-smash/up-smash/fair stay within f-tilt range

60-40


Yoshi - stay away from the grab and pivot grab. yoshi has a chaingrab I believe, I do not know if it leads into up-smash. if it does 50-50 , if not 60-40

Wolf - avoid lasers and shine. 45-55

Wario - don't get grabbed, pivot grab a lot and keep him away with bair, don't let him above you bolded for emphasis

35-65

Toon link
- Completely avoid him if he has a bomb, watch for patterns of using zair.

40-60

Sonic - if they Spin dash into your shield and jump, you are guaranteed a up air
55-45/60-40


Snake - downb a lot, shield grab landings SA punch landings is better 50-50

Sheik - Up-b out of f-tilts and you can land lagless on platforms. grab release DACUS is ****. 55-45

Samus - patience is key while up close 60-40

R.O.B. - keep him in the air. 50-50

PT - I think we may have a CG on squirtle. squirtle also can't grab release us. but **** is he hard to punish. Ivy blows just throw him off stage and you win. chraizard is a bit harder just play it like normal.

squirtle- 55-45

ivy- 65-35

charizard- 60-40

Pit - don't get CGed. play extremely safe.

45-55

Pikachu - play near the edges

45-55

Peach - keep punch charged always.

50-50

olimar- I have yet to beat any olimar i've ever played in tournament.

40-60

ness - only bair if he does his rising aerials. stay on the ground

60-40

mk - never beat MK either. picked up fox and wario for him. tornado is too much to handle

35-65

Marth - play like normal. stay away from the ledge. when being juggled go to the ledge

55-45

Mario - don't fall for gimicks like cape stalling or cape jumping.

60-40

Luigi - F-tilt all day.

50-50

Lucas - stay on the ground always.

65-35



Lucario - momentum is key

50-50

Link - grab a lot, throw him offstage and follow up, just shield his bombs and crap because he can't do much else <--- someone doesn't know link

keep away until he doesn't have a bomb.

55-45

Kirby - stay in the air. bair all day.

55-45

King DDD - you lose with the infinte. BBR rules do not ban this

0-100

Jiggs - just bait and punish. up-smash OOS if they do rising pound on your shield. kills them at 70% d-smash will kill around 85%. this match up is DK's easiest.

70-30

Ike - IDK, f-tilt

55-45

Ice climbers - downb, throw nana away, fsmash her as she runs back to popo, UP-B!

50-50/ 55-45

ganon - camp, spotdodgeroll a lot

65-35

Game and watch - IDK but I don't lose to G&W ever

fox - SDI everything or you will get wrecked. ask zeton.

45-55

Falco
- similar to fox but gimping doesn't work as well. platform camp the first 40% and keep him away, but if you let him too far away he'll just start camping. you'll know where you should be when you get there.

45-55

DK - WIN!

100-0

Diddy - throw bananas down at your feet. they may roll into them.

45-55

Falcon - don't jump, don't approach wait for his spotdodges on the ground. get a % lead and play campy as hell

60-40


bowser
- bair a lot and watch out for sideb

60-40
 

MJG

Smash Hero
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
5,712
Location
In Kokomo Circle Camping with Shadow1pj
Based on my knowledge of the MU, I would say that it is 55:45. I don't like using MU ratios anyways. Pros/Cons in the MU should be addressed instead IMO.

F tilt beats out all projectiles except bombs. I am pretty sure Bair does as well but I am not 100% sure.

Don't rely on chasing him down in the air unless the TL is being predictable with his jumps....Be patient and punish him as he is coming down to the ground.
 

Big O

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
1,401
Location
California
NNID
BiiigOOO
@Ripple: I don't think Sheik can grab release DACUS us unless we mash jump while breaking out.

Vs Yoshi- Watch out for Uair/Fsmash and you will live forever. If he egg lays you don't press shield while you mash out, just mash jump and the control stick. Try not to hit the eggs, they usually blow up and hit you anyway.

Vs Marth- It is all about spacing. Mix up your recovery/ledge game or you will get wrecked. Shield grab db after the third hit. If you grab him and he doesn't have his double jump, cargo Dtoss him offstage for an easy gimp.

Vs Mario- Watch out for Fsmash (it either pulls him back really quick or is stutter stepped for insane reach) and cape gimps. If he starts camping use Bair. Also gimped by cargo Dtoss.

Vs Olimar- Use a mix of down b and up b to approach on the ground. From the air, the Bair/side b/grab mix up works well. Grabs are really good at getting him offstage/in the air. Watch out for whistle armor when juggling him. He has no grab armor so you can jab him before the pikmin gets you. Never spot dodge and never let him get under you.

Vs ZSS- Toss armor pieces away ASAP unless you are good at using them. Watch out for down b spike and Dsmash on the ledge. Just space well and be mindful of her side b's range.

Vs CF- Have fun. Don't underestimate him as the knee will KO/gimp you.

Vs ICs- Down b a lot and up b will murder their shield. Just don't up b carelessly or you will get grabbed. Bair and Ftilt are generally safe. Look out for any possible de-synch grab setups.

Vs MK- Save Ftilt for beating tornado (angle it upwards). Don't let him get below you at all. Dtilt, down b, and spaced Bairs are good. He is too short for rising Bair so don't try any if he is on the ground. Ftilt (third hit) and Dsmash are pretty unsafe on block. Punch > glide attack.

Vs D3- Only fight with walking/infinite cg's banned. Get him offstage and edge guard him very aggressively. Abuse his up b landing lag with short hop side b. If he ever gets the full up b lag (makes a distinct noise and he fumbles) do a fully charged Fsmash/Dsmash or a 9 punch. Just stay away from him if you are winning and abuse your superior mobility. His side b is really laggy so look out for punishing it. Only well spaced tilts and rising Bairs are safe on block. Aerial side b may catch him offguard.
 

Justin Wiles

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Thanks everyone, it's looking good.

I guess it's really not a match-up discussion in the traditional sense, but it's a pretty good starting point for anyone that needs help on an MU. It also takes a hella long time to update, but it's kind of fun as long as the browser doesn't crash on me ;p
 

lucha5

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i like this mu board, simple and to the point.reminds me of mango's jiggs guide lolz
 

Katakiri

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If that Falco MU is really 45-55, I will secondary DK. No joke.
 

Demp

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It is pretty bad if Falco camps us with just lazers and phagtasm (65:35-ish). Otherwise I would say 50:50 or 45:55.
 

crifer

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It is pretty bad if Falco camps us with just lazers and phagtasm (65:35-ish). Otherwise I would say 50:50 or 45:55.
you´re wrong.
Since matchup ratio´s show the ratio, if the Character is played to his fullest potential, it is of course 55:45 with camping.

Maybe it´s 60:40 for Falco.
We kill way way earlier, can edgeguard him (bair, SA extended upB) and good spaced bairs are nearly unpunishable.
 

Justin Wiles

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Yeah, honestly, if you don't panic from the lasers, it's not that bad. He shouldn't be killing you until 150+ if you play smart.
 

vVv Rapture

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To be honest, I still think the Marth matchup is 50:50. I'd just like to see other people's opinion on that.

Also, awesome guide. Very useful, straight and to the point.
 

Justin Wiles

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Thanks! I want to see if any other players would like to chime in with advice, some of the characters need a bit more.

And yeah, VS Marth is more 50/50, I will update that soon.
 

YooY

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I think vs Marth is like 55:45 DK advantage because of DK feet :D
 

Cyphus

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marth's easy ForwardB punishment vs practically everything DK has, because of extended hurboxes, is the bigbig problem here. Marth also has f.throw-f.smash combo at beginning damage, as well as mixup juggles that can **** DK well because of his size and reliance of airdodging, since his d.air/f.air can't help.
he can counter our uB, which never kills, but its still possible for marth to perfect time a spike on our recovery. most aggravating is the forward Bing out of shield and retreating pivot forwardB to cover spacing with his f.air.
50/50 assuming both players know the matchup
amateurly, DK has the advantage from trading hits. DK is a character that does have certain advantages over marth, but marth is still the better character and evens this out i think.

edit: i could just as easily say 55/45 dk's favor tbh, but def not 60/40.
 

YooY

Smash Cadet
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The marth has no approach against DK and can be easily punished too and DK should live longer than Marth if he plays smartly and avoid kill moves. matchup are not exact but imo DK has a small advantage.
 

Luigi player

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I just noticed DKs dsmash ***** Falcos SideB...

It cancels out the hitboxes from sideB and hits right through it... if Falco isn't using it right in front of you (and sideBs through you) then you will probably hit him out of it if you can time the dsmash well (it shouldn't be too hard to predict a sideB (especially if Falco is recovering)). Dsmash's hitboxes are out for 5 frames so it should be quite possible.

If you time the dsmash right the worst thing that could happen is that you won't hit him (this is only if he is too near to you went he starts the sideB; but you probably won't get hit too), or that you both hit each other (although I think if you hit with dsmash it's worth getting hit from sideB.. :D).
 

DKwill

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Just read through all of this again and realized how extremely useful it is. I might go and print this stuff out for when I forget what to do in a matchup for whatever reason whether it be nerves or lack of focus =P

I'll also go through and list the most useful tips I can for all of the characters =)

Meta Knight:

- **Key Tip** When he comes in too high with tornado for you to up angled f-tilt, use reverse u-tilt! It really *****, and unsuspecting MK's will die from it at around 110% if its fresh.
- If MK runs at you, pivot grab. It literally shuts down his attempts at dash grabbing/dash attacking.
- Go for aerial head butts if you read a whiffed grab/d-smash, DK's fresh d-smash/f-smash ***** MK and gets free kills. Also, if they are one of those people who always mash out immediately, run and up smash right after burying them and it will connect for even earlier kills =)

Snake:

- If you manage to grab him very close to the edge, pummel release him and you can usually follow up with d tilts. D tilt him him out of his first cypher if he starts it too close, then spike out of the next one with a d-air/aerial head butt =)
- When Snake pulls a grenade on the ground, you get a free f-tilt if you are within range. You won't take grenade damage.
- You can punish Snake's full jab combo on shield with d-smash/head butt OOS, and can punish a full f-tilt combo on shield with d-smash.
- **Key Tip** Cargo grab, jump and up throw snake into u-airs all day to rack up damage. It traps him and basically forces him to fast fall an air dodge as his only option other than cypher. Read landings, rinse and repeat.

Diddy Kong:

- Forward glide tossed bananas combo into d-smash if the banana connects.
- **Key Tip** Camp platforms and fully charge punch whenever possible. This matchup is much easier if you camp like a gay and stay off the ground. Platform drop through b-airs work well here. Never approach when he has both bananas near him. (Yeah… sucks doesn’t it?)
- Full hop and z-catch/instant throw bananas when they hit your shield. Throw bananas upward and then go after him.
- When holding a banana, run at Diddy and use grounded up b/down b- he will be expecting a banana toss and thus shielding.

Falco:

- **Key Tip** To beat Falco’s short hop double lasers, walk under the first one and powershield the second one. (Angle shield forward if it is small)
- Use SA frames (frames 10-16) of grounded up-b to armor through the falling laser and catch him with its continuous hitboxes before he hits the ground.
- If you are walking/running toward Falco and take a laser, you can punish with a buffered f-tilt if you are within range.
- Spaced b-airs/down-b to diminish shields, then grounded up-b to get him into the air. Get him off stage and wall of pain with b-airs or read side b and punish.
- Superkongs off the edge of the stage, dash attack, d-tilt, jab, and d-smash timed correctly can beat Falco when he attempts to side b through you at the edge. (Falco cannot be hit during the first 1/3 of his side b animation)

Note: I just tested DK's downward angled f-tilt on Falco as he commits to grabbing the edge with side b. If you stand all the way at the edge and time/space it perfectly, you can hit him out of his side b. Given he is at a high enough percent, does not have a double jump, and did not predict this and have some sort of extraordinary DI, grabbing the edge afterwards leads to a gimp =)

Ice Climbers:

- Always SDI up to get out of their side b! Wiggle up on both the joystick and the c-stick, and you can often connect with a fastfall up air on the way out.
- **Key Tip** Don’t get grabbed. This applies here more so than any other matchup in the game, naturally. Play as safe as possible. This includes camping on platforms. Taking up airs > losing a stock.
- Full charged punch > both blizzard and squall
- Ground pound sends ice blocks back. Walking forward a little at a time and using down b is generally pretty safe.
- Be extremely careful when you get up from the edge, try to get to platform if you can. Get up attack (<100%) only on obvious openings otherwise you could end up losing a stock lol.

Marth:

- Up angled f-tilt beats Marth’s short hop f-air approach.
- If you fully shield Marth’s DB4, you can do ANYTHING OOS. D-smash, f-smash, fully charged punch, even 9 wind! (You have 31 frames to do anything to Marth since he has 38 frames of lag after DB4 and shield drop lag is 7 frames ^_^) If Marth uses the downward variation of DB4, you only really have time for a d-smash OOS since he has 25 frames of lag and thus we have 18 frames to do something. Upward variation results in 33 frames of lag, thus 26 frames for us to hit him after shield drop. In this case you can either d-smash, f-smash, head butt, or fully charged punch.

To sum up:
Standard DB4 -> Anything OOS. (d-smash, f-smash, head butt, fully charged punch, 9 wind punch)
DB4 downward variation -> D-smash OOS.
DB4 upward variation -> d-smash, f-smash, head butt, fully charged punch

- Cargo d-throw Marth off stage and grab the edge just before his dolphin slash -> either results in an edge hog or a free ledge hop up air, f-air, d-air, n-air, head butt depending on where he lands. (ledge drop double jump up air is easiest)
- Mix up landings with d-airs otherwise you will get juggled forever lol.
 

DKwill

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epic will, this thread needs more posts like that, thx a bunch!
I'm not done yet. =P I'm going to go through all of the characters and come up with everything I can think of. ^_^

I owe a lot to the information I've learned here on the DK boards, I love giving back to my DK brethren.

Edit: I finished up to Marth in my OP, I'll post more later.
 

¿Qué?

Smash Champion
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Mar 30, 2010
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Ohh, **** Will. Those are definatly things too know. I really need too practice my pivot grab. Especially knowing that DK's pivot grabs set ups are prob some of the best.
 

MechWarriorNY

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Thanks for this, this will def help if I can remember to apply what has been posted here.
 

Neon!

Smash Lord
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Dallas, Texas
Everyone on the peach boards know i adamantly believe it is 55:45 in dks favor but after playing Illamtic, Nicole, L33T and Razmakazi at MLG dallas I still believe it is slightly in our favor.

DK's pros
-significantly outranges her in the air and on the ground
-fully charged punch/dsmash kill at 100%
-can easily survive to 150+ on each stock
-utilt beats dair and leads into combos

Peach's Pros
-dair lead into a ton of different combo options and is safe on shield if follwed by nair.
-turnips limit his approaches fairly well
-jab/grab mixups up work well up close
-stutter step fsmash/usmash works well for killing.
 

¿Qué?

Smash Champion
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Everyone on the peach boards know i adamantly believe it is 55:45 in dks favor but after playing Illamtic, Nicole, L33T and Razmakazi at MLG dallas I still believe it is slightly in our favor.

DK's pros
-significantly outranges her in the air and on the ground
-fully charged punch/dsmash kill at 100%
-can easily survive to 150+ on each stock
-utilt beats dair and leads into combos

Peach's Pros
-dair lead into a ton of different combo options and is safe on shield if follwed by nair.
-turnips limit his approaches fairly well
-jab/grab mixups up work well up close
-stutter step fsmash/usmash works well for killing.
He definitely does out range her, but the moves are predictable, and Peach has turnips to cover DK's few options for spacing. When Peach comes into Shield range, she can pressure DK all day, until he gets away again.

I still think it's 50/50.
 
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