The Debate Hall Social Thread

[KrazyGlue]

1000GET

But why are we going over the homosexuality topic again, especially, why aren't we just continuing this in the actual topic

Good question. Very good question.

I looked back a few pages, and Kazoo mentioned the thread, Dre responded, and it snowballed into this. Regardless, I would like Dre to respond to my post, whether it's here or the homosexuality thread (preferably the latter).

 

[RDK]

No. Even if we assume homosexuality is wrong, **** goes a step further and violates the rights of another human being.

What I don't consider any different to homosexuality is say dreaming of a ****. When I say dreaming of ****, I'm talking about a good-hearted person with a perversion who would never **** a woman in reality.

The same goes for someone who looks at children lustfully, but would never violate a child.

To me, these are attempts at attaining sexual gratification outside of the procreation act, without infringing upon the rights of another human being.

I'm saying that homosexuality is no different, yet the people with the **** and child perversion I mentioned above are despied whilst the homosexuality is endorsed. To me it seems to be a contradiction.

Because you consider homosexuality to be ''wrong''.

What has become of the purpose of this analogy? To display that your definition of ''wrong'' is different to others'. I see no point in it. You can't simply define what is ''wrong'' in a debate like this and then tell people that their beliefs are inconsistent when the opposition never used your criteria of ''wrong'' to begin with.

We wouldn't be having such a debate otherwise.

So I guess my next question is why you find sexual gratification outside of the procreation act to be immoral.

Why? Have you never jacked off before?

Also, do you have to procreate every time you have sex or else it becomes immoral?

You say you're not part of any religion but almost all of your views are very conservative protestant Christian.

 

[Deleted member]

This really is the homosexual thread all over again.

yes of course he could find it immoral.
second line isn't even relevant.
as long as you have sex with the intention of procreation it isn't immoral.

 

[RDK]

That's not the point. The point is why he believes such a silly thing.

 

[Deleted member]

don't call it silly without reason.

While I disagree with his standpoint, he defended it quite well in the original topic.
now seriously go there because this will just become a copy paste thing.

 

[RDK]

No, he didn't defend it very well, which is why I'm trying to give him a second chance to try and justify his beliefs.

BTW is your name Dre too?

 

[Dre89]

Paprika is right, pretty much every question apart from Krazyglue's has been answered in the thread.

Krazyglue- To be honest, the only legitimate evidence I saw was the lions (which ironically no one linked me too, I saw it myself as a related video). As for my 'response', I don' really have one, because I have to reconsider. The reason why I'm not immediately jumping on the homosexual bandwagon is because it's been claimed that this homosexuality is so abundant, yet only one video has proved legitimate evidence. So at this time I'm just re-considering my position.

RDK- If anything, my beliefs are more alike to the natural morals of Catholcism, not Protestantism.

Superbowser- No the analogy does not assume homosexuality is wrong. I brought up the analogy because most of society endorses homosexuality, but not those dreams, and I'm just saying it is inconsistent. The analogy wasn't saying homosexuality is wrong, it was just saying that if you endorse it, you have to endorse the dreams as well to be consistent, which most liberals would be reluctant to do.

 

[Aesir]

Uh what? I never said buzz or anything like that.

 

[Dre89]

Sorry that was Kazoo.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Krazyglue- To be honest, the only legitimate evidence I saw was the lions (which ironically no one linked me too, I saw it myself as a related video). As for my 'response', I don' really have one, because I have to reconsider. The reason why I'm not immediately jumping on the homosexual bandwagon is because it's been claimed that this homosexuality is so abundant, yet only one video has proved legitimate evidence. So at this time I'm just re-considering my position.

Fair enough. Let me also just throw these into the mix:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf9MIKACLCQ&feature=related (particularly 1:27-1:58)

 

[Dre89]

Hey guys, I just had a question, so I decided to put it here because it doesn't really require it's own thread, and it's supposed to be a question, not a debate.

I know of alot of people who claim that late at night when they're in bed, they feel a 'presence'. It's hard to explain, but they feel a fear that some demon/ghost/spirit is trying to scare them. They claim that they hear things, like a door handle slowly opening, footsteps, someone talking etc.

Some of these people have also been awoken at night shaking with fear, sensing an impending doom upon them, like something is going to kill them.

I think you guys get the general idea of what I'm talking about. What I want to know is what the psychological explanations are. I'm sure skeptics don't accept this stuff to be demons or anything supernatural of the sort, and would have some sort of explanation, so I'm just curious what it is.

For example, do these kinds of reportings occur with atheists? I'm curious as to whether these phenomena are exclusive to those who have a prior concept of the devil, thus where the psychological issue comes from.

This isn't a debate as to whether this stuff is supernatural or not, so I don't want people coming in here saying 'it's stupid to believe in fairy tales, science has proven X', I just want to know what the explanations are.

 

[RDK]

Someone who has a predilection towards believing in demons and whatnot is going to attribute creaky doorknobs and spooky night sounds to supernatural things.

As far as the psychology goes, it's impossible to tell without looking at the person as a singular case. It could vary from person to person. If said person is stressed about something then that very well could effect their dreams to such a point that they wake up from a night terror. Psychological problems can manifest physically and cause a lot of health issues if it's severe enough.

Are you talking about someone you know personally?

 

[Sucumbio]

These would be classified scientifically as hallucinations. Ones that occur in and around stages of sleep are classified under Parasomnias

Another "explanation" is medication. Some meds can produce hallucinations and especially during different stages of sleep, such as Chantix, which is said to "intensify" dreams (REM stage of sleep).

Yet another explanation is specific disorders of the brain or psyche such as schizophrenia.

And yet another is that they're full of **** and just have over-active imaginations, or stayed up too late watching horror movies, "psyching" themselves out, if you will.

 

[rvkevin]

For example, do these kinds of reportings occur with atheists?

I can relate to some of the things mentioned, minus attributing those things to "evil spirits."

 

[Dre89]

That's pretty interesting stuff Sucumbio.

RDK I'm not just talking about ordinary house creaks, this stuff is different. For example I heard my mother talking the other night, when she was in fact as sleep, then in the morning, when no one else was home, I heard footsteps right outside my room. I also heard an unusual noise in the shower which I'd never heard before. I know the difference between ordinary creaks and this sorta stuff.

But yeah I'm talking about myself and other people I know personally. You feel a 'presence', you feel an immense fear that something is going to kill you. When I feel it, I curl up (in bed) and face the wall, I have so much fear that I can't even turn over and open my body up in fear of some sort of attack.

Everytime I close my eyes, I get this strange sense of impending doom, that something is about to come at me, so I have to open my eyes again. I've even woken up in the middle of the night shaking in fear that something is going to kill me.

What makes it even creepier at times is that there is a shadow o na door near my room that is shaped perfectly like two faces facing each other, but that's just coincidence so I don't think too much of that.

This sort of stuff has happened to my friends too. The thing that gets me is that they've happened to them when they weren't creeped out, they weren't thinking about the devil or anything like that, they were completely normal and this stuff happens.

So yeah that's why this sort of stuff has become of interest to me.

 

[RDK]

Well in that case you should probably see a doctor. Having hallucinations about something trying to kill you can't be healthy.

 

[SuperBowser]

Well this is a pretty extensively researched subject and there's lots of words to describe what you are talking about. It really varies on the situation. It's hard to answer your question without more detail.

First of all, it's useful to define what is a hallucination and illusion. I don't think what you describe is a hallucination. Hallucinations occur when you falsely perceive something is present when it is not at all. Illusions are when you falsely interpret real perceptions.

For example, in a hallucination you may hear voices speaking to you from somewhere in the room as if they are real. However, to other people this is not the case.

In an illusion, if you were to watch a scary movie and then head home at night you may falsely interpret normal shadows to be a monster. While other people may not interpret these same perceptions in a similar fashion, they can still see the shadow.

You only experience hallucinations if two criteria are satisified: (a) it is experienced as a true perception, not imaginary and (b) it seems to come from the outside world (an exception exists for somatic hallucinations). If one of these two criteria is not met, it is termed a ''pseudohallucination''.

You can also experience hallucinations when you are about to sleep or when you are waking up. These are referred to as hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations, respectively. These are surprisingly common in the general population (atheists and theists alike). They generally last a few seconds to a few minutes and can be alarming to some people. These are different to hallucinations because people usually awake from these moments and become immediately aware of the true nature of these events. While they seem to occur more commonly in certain genotypes, they do not reflect an underlying problem.

I would guess that you are experiencing a mixture of hypnagogia and illusions. But if they interfere with your sleep so much or worry you, you can always ask a doctor.

edit: I should add that my opinion is totally unqualified and what I am saying is only based on a single post of yours. If you are having other problems too, it's probably worth seeing a doctor.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

But yeah I'm talking about myself and other people I know personally. You feel a 'presence', you feel an immense fear that something is going to kill you. When I feel it, I curl up (in bed) and face the wall, I have so much fear that I can't even turn over and open my body up in fear of some sort of attack.

Everytime I close my eyes, I get this strange sense of impending doom, that something is about to come at me, so I have to open my eyes again. I've even woken up in the middle of the night shaking in fear that something is going to kill me.

What makes it even creepier at times is that there is a shadow o na door near my room that is shaped perfectly like two faces facing each other, but that's just coincidence so I don't think too much of that.

This sort of stuff has happened to my friends too. The thing that gets me is that they've happened to them when they weren't creeped out, they weren't thinking about the devil or anything like that, they were completely normal and this stuff happens.

So yeah that's why this sort of stuff has become of interest to me.

Yeah, it happens to me. After watching nightmare fuel, I feel like this. I believe it's purely imaginary. I know things aren't out to get me, but some part of me believe's something out to get me. It' probably just your/my brain in overdrive. It happens to my atheist friend as well. We know it's irrational, but the stupid thing is we feel scared.

We humans have a habit of seeing patterns where there aren't any, so don't fret about it. For example, you know those 2D pictures of cubes, they aren't actually cubes, we just think they are, because our brain interprets them that way. Much the same thing applies here. An example in my life was that the top of my curtains at one point looked like gun turrets to me.

To be 100% clear on this, I'm an atheist.

 

[rvkevin]

If you are walking in the woods at night and imagine a panther or bear behind you, I think you would walk a little faster and feel a little fear even though the threat is imaginary. The same thing about swimming in the ocean while thinking of every shark attack you've ever seen on TV, I would expect that person to be afraid even though the threat would be just as real as driving to the beach, yet one strikes more fear than the other since we don't think about the negative consequences of driving (unless you've been in a car crash).

Add to this a person who is told something similar to that they will go to hell if they fail to meet a moral code and you have people thinking of the negative consequences of their actions when they are reflecting about what they did that day. In this sense, I can relate to people who fear demons by comparing them to sharks and panthers. You might say that sharks are a real threat while demons are not, but to the believer, demons are just as real as the shark, which is all that matters. Imagination run amok.

 

[KrazyGlue]

I don't know, I never feel like someone is out to kill me or whatever. But sometimes in the early morning before I go to sleep, I just feel... uneasy. It's hard to describe. I just feel a bit nervous about something, but I don't really know what. Does anyone know what that is? (Probably just a lack of sleep making me feel weird, but I don't know.)

 

[RDK]

Is there an echo in here?

 

[KrazyGlue]

I'm not hearing sounds or having hallucinations/illusions or whatever though, I just feel uneasy.

 

[Reaver197]

http://www.zmescience.com/medicine/genetic/gay-gene-found-lesbian-mice-study-0232321/

You guys were talking about homosexuality at one point or another, and thought you might find this interesting.

 

[Lore]

I am really, really sorry for not posting much in here. I went to Colorado two weeks ago for nationals (I did decent, by the way), a good friend died last week, and this week I'm in Colorado again for the JOs.

I posted a couple semi-decent posts in the gun control thread, but I really just don't have time right now to make sure that all of my posts are perfect.

After this month I shouldn't be as busy, so please bear with me for a bit longer.

 

[Dre89]

http://www.zmescience.com/medicine/genetic/gay-gene-found-lesbian-mice-study-0232321/

You guys were talking about homosexuality at one point or another, and thought you might find this interesting.

It's interesting but doesn't change much.

There's already been evidence put forward that allegedly both nature and nurture factors contribute to sexuality.

Secondly, whether homosexuality is genetic or not doesn't affect the debate in the slightest because I never argued it was wrong because it wasnt genetically influenced.

Werekill I'm amazed you even bother still post here.

I saw the post that got you kicked out, then I see people like RDK telling people who have done nothing to him to go f*** themselves and suck his balls, and people like Del telling other debaters that no one wants them here, and they stay and continue to be respected memebers of the community.

Man I'm so proud to be a DHer...

 

[blazedaces]

I saw the post that got you kicked out, then I see people like RDK telling people who have done nothing to him to go f*** themselves and suck his balls, and people like Del telling other debaters that no one wants them here, and they stay and continue to be respected memebers of the community.

Man I'm so proud to be a DHer...

What makes you say they are considered "respected" members?

-blazed

 

[Dre89]

What makes you say they are considered "respected" members?

-blazed

Haha that was funny.

To be honest I'm still at loss as to whether I'm respected or despised by the majority of the community here.

 

[Reaver197]

If you have to ask, and actually are concerned about it, then you already have your answer.

 

[Aesir]

There's very few people who I respect here.

 

[RDK]

It's interesting but doesn't change much.

There's already been evidence put forward that allegedly both nature and nurture factors contribute to sexuality.

Secondly, whether homosexuality is genetic or not doesn't affect the debate in the slightest because I never argued it was wrong because it wasnt genetically influenced.

Werekill I'm amazed you even bother still post here.

I saw the post that got you kicked out, then I see people like RDK telling people who have done nothing to him to go f*** themselves and suck his balls, and people like Del telling other debaters that no one wants them here, and they stay and continue to be respected memebers of the community.

Man I'm so proud to be a DHer...

None of that stuff happened until this place turned into a giant joke, and then we did nothing but behave appropriate to a place that is a giant joke.

That, and Del's a cranky old man so he doesn't really like anyone.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't think anyone really hates anyone else....except for Del to Gamer4Fire. We're just doing what any debater does in a debate.... debate. We sometimes get frustrated during the debate. But then we shake hands, reflect and have cake and ice cream after it's over and get ready for the next topic. That's how I see it, else this social thread would be full of nothing but people flaming each other.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

I don't think anyone really hates anyone else....except for Del to Gamer4Fire. We're just doing what any debater does in a debate.... debate. We sometimes get frustrated during the debate. But then we shake hands, reflect and have cake and ice cream after it's over and get ready for the next topic. That's how I see it, else this social thread would be full of nothing but people flaming each other.

Gamer4Fire, in my opinion is bit weird. A bit loud, seemingly always shouting, in my mind. Rather like me in real life. I haven't really seen him do too much though, so it could be just a first impression. No offence meant though.

PLEASE DON'T KILL ME MODS! PLEASE!

Yeah, but in general I think we're all pretty cool in here.

 

[RDK]

G4F has been a member of the DH longer than most people here, and he's always been a logical and clear thinker.

I don't get why people dislike him so much.

 

[Bob Jane T-Mart]

G4F has been a member of the DH longer than most people here, and he's always been a logical and clear thinker.

I don't get why people dislike him so much.

I'm not saying he's bad, or mean, just kinda, loud. Like if I were talking to him, he'd be talking quite loud. Anyway, that's just what I think, and it's probably rubbish.

 

[Sieguest]

I don't know, the only person I've seen who has shown hostility towards G4F is Del. Personally I've nothing against him.

 

[Aesir]

I don't think anyone really hates anyone else....except for Del to Gamer4Fire. We're just doing what any debater does in a debate.... debate. We sometimes get frustrated during the debate. But then we shake hands, reflect and have cake and ice cream after it's over and get ready for the next topic. That's how I see it, else this social thread would be full of nothing but people flaming each other.

I'm sorry but this is definitely a cool story bro moment right here.

anyway someone said "I don't think anyone hates anyone here" that's flat out wrong, I hate people in general, this is because I work in fast food and interned in politics. Your view of people becomes increasingly negative when you deal with them in these areas of life.

 

[Sieguest]

Maybe I should rephrase that to "I think everyone tolerates each other in here."

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't hate you.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Saw it coming. Best game ever

 

[Dre89]

None of that stuff happened until this place turned into a giant joke, and then we did nothing but behave appropriate to a place that is a giant joke.

That, and Del's a cranky old man so he doesn't really like anyone.

And that's supposed to excuse your conduct is it?

Besides, I've read debates from the archives that relate to my interests (you can work out which ones those are) and I found most of them to be pretty dissappointing, so I don't see why this place is a 'joke', unless you're referring to the fact it's a joke that you didn't get the moderator role.

Also, calling this place a joke and being offensive and condescending suggests to me that you consider yourself a superior debater to the newer crop of debaters here. It would be foolish on your behalf to think that; I've debated nearly every currently active member here and you are in no way so superior to the majority of the debaters here. I'm not hesitant to be blunt about it because you're arrogant and condescending in nearly every thread I've seen you in.

The only thing that's a 'joke' here is that Werekill got kicked out for that post, then you tell people to go f*** themselves and suck your balls and you don't get kicked out. Now that is a joke.