The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[Kudrah]

So, Scatz came down to Statesboro and Eagle Smash set up a Hot Seat for him (hyperbolic time chamber thing where you fight everyone non-stop ordered by least to most skilled).

So, we had Yoshi dittoes. http://www.twitch.tv/1bigman40/b/579515465?t=4h18m26s

 

[TomBoComBo]

You guys need to get netplay so I can play you

 

[TomBoComBo]

So, Scatz came down to Statesboro and Eagle Smash set up a Hot Seat for him (hyperbolic time chamber thing where you fight everyone non-stop ordered by least to most skilled).

So, we had Yoshi dittoes. http://www.twitch.tv/1bigman40/b/579515465?t=4h18m26s

Also, both of yall need to work on your jab resets. I saw so many opportunities missed

 

[Scatz]

Been had netplay. I don't get on there often.

I have a lot more sets with Yoshi recorded. Just have to cut up the footage and get them up. Won about 9 of 12 sets with Yoshi alone. I was happy with my results from him after some long time practice.

 

[Scatz]

DP.

Lots of matches recorded last week. I got some really good training in with the crew in a boss rush type manner (weakest to strongest player). Feel free to look and/or give some advice. Note: my Yoshi still has a lot to pick up on. This is pretty much a few months of on and off training to get techs, movement, etc out the way. One thing I will say is that this day is literally the BEST I've played out of my Yoshi. Was thoroughly happy with the results at the end.

The links go from easiest to hardest. By the time I got towards the end, I was mentally exhausted (I played 36 sets total). So keep that in mind.
I also know that I don't fully understand the DK, TL, Diddy, and Wario MUs. I was not able to figure out enough to make full changes in mid set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENhMny3KLo0&t=5m30s Vs ROB (1 match)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLS3o0Mu5bY&t=15m12s Vs Zelda & Marth (2 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcVt8WPgNg&t=22m24s Vs Ness & Yoshi (3 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsLcfa40qBo&t=21m30s Vs Sheik & Ness (2 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1fcWNOmvns&t=21m15s Vs Zelda (1 match)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjKPCcae3Tc&t=24m0s Vs Wario (3 matches) You can see the unfamiliarity as I play vs Wario
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGcPy0hfgxU&t=21m30s Vs Kirby & Mewtwo (2 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9NLqNspoCU&t=23m0s Vs Yoshi (2 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQR5U78ud6g&t=21m0s Vs Zelda (2 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO8euqqnWf8&t=26m0s Vs D3 (3 matches)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz2fQ3XXh9A&t=22m15s Vs Diddy & Toonlink (3 matches) I have a big MU problem with these two chars T_T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rslqHgnr3QE&t=14m0s Vs DK (2 matches)

This is only a fraction of the matches I played total. @_@ I have played at least 72 games in one sitting X_X

 

[NinKenDo64]

Dang @ Scatz ! The Yoshi grind is real! Does my heart glad to see the love for the dino

 

[Scatz]

Thanks man! Been going back to my roots.

Also, no advice from anyone? =/ This place stay dead man...

 

[TomBoComBo]

Thanks man! Been going back to my roots.

Also, no advice from anyone? =/ This place stay dead man...

School is demanding. I'll get you later, don't you worry

 

[didds]

Thanks man! Been going back to my roots.

Also, no advice from anyone? =/ This place stay dead man...

I'll get back to you, I was watching before and had some notes down, but I haven't had time to write things up.

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ Scatz You and I should have a netplay session

 

[Scatz]

Sure, though idk how much of my tech will transfer over to netplay lol. Next week?

 

[Mumbo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSmIjc-I7Fo&list=UUNQJBqULtyOg9flR1jYpeaw

caution: salt ahead

There was one point where a commentator said "missing these DJC up airs" which is not true. I like to rising uair a lot to and go for downairs like that sicknasty combo on smashville.

Also youll see me go for a lot of aerials that seem weird (like fairs or bairs instead of uairs) most of those are a result of my lack of techskill.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Sure, though idk how much of my tech will transfer over to netplay lol. Next week?

sure man, lets set a time to play.

And as a few general tips on what I've looked at so far of your stuff, you rely on DJU Uair way too much. It should never be your go-to followup on really anything. The only time it's even useful is catching someone quickly above you or if your opponent's DI is bad. You need to explore the other options you have for following up, there are far more effective and simpler ones you can use (that combo harder than a few quick Uairs I might add). Branching from that, you rely on DJC aerials altogether too much. Yoshi has very nice tools for controlling a large amount of space very quickly and unpredictably. Use shorthops more instead of grounding yourself so quickly, Yoshi's aerial game is only beaten by swords and kirby, there's no reason to keep yourself grounded at all times. I feel that some of you guys underestimate eggroll almost to the point of not using it. I have been accused of using eggroll too much, but it's too good of a move to not use. Even if it's just for movement, it's an amazing tool to keep your aerial game unpredictable and very dangerous. Lastly, I know coming from brawl, you have a defensive mindset that influences your PM game, but you need to work past that, Yoshi has the tools to dominate an opponent and get out with minimal/no trades in percentage. Learn to be aggressive. Along with that, when you were faced with MUs that you didn't know, you adapted well, but the hesitation in your play, being unsure of what to do, led to very tough matches or all-out defeats. Mental stability no matter what the MU is key to adapting and turning the tables.

 

[TomBoComBo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSmIjc-I7Fo&list=UUNQJBqULtyOg9flR1jYpeaw

caution: salt ahead

There was one point where a commentator said "missing these DJC up airs" which is not true. I like to rising uair a lot to and go for downairs like that sicknasty combo on smashville.

Also youll see me go for a lot of aerials that seem weird (like fairs or bairs instead of uairs) most of those are a result of my lack of techskill.

but fairs and Bairs are good. Idk why everyone has a fascination with DJC Uairs, they're optimal in one situation IF you can do them consistently every time. Plus they're not safe any other time they're used. Stop trying to style with it, there are other much more consistent and reliable (not to mention deadly) options that can lead to bigger combos than a few Uairs

 

[didds]

DJC Uairs are best saved for keeping an opponent from grounding during a combo when you need a mobile and low hitting pop up move, any more than one or two and you'll probably drop your combo afterwards.

 

[Damp]

I rarely use a djc uair. Usually I opt for a fair and then tech chase, or a nair if it can get them off stage.

 

[didds]

It's definitely not as relevant as it was in melee

 

[Damp]

If the rumors are true about up air getting a buff, then I assume that it's knockback is being increased and will be even less relevant for combos. I use it mostly as a kill move.

 

[TomBoComBo]

If the rumors are true about up air getting a buff, then I assume that it's knockback is being increased and will be even less relevant for combos. I use it mostly as a kill move.

Rising Uair combos will still be very relevant

 

[Mumbo]

https://www.facebook.com/events/1502519116670412/
@ TomBoComBo
@Qwinn Yoshi
@ Scatz
@ K Kudrah

 

[Scatz]

I'll see what I can do. I have at least two events back to back, so idk if I will be able to take off 3 weeks lol.

 

[Kudrah]

Is it me or are most of us in the Florida/Georgia area?

Still, would love to go there and have dittos with y'all. I'll see what I can do.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I plan on going

 

[didds]

I'm in Minnesota so I doubt I can make this. I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Scatz]

@ Scatz You and I should have a netplay session

Are you good for today at about 10 EST? If not, I can play netplay tomorrow at 8 EST.

 

[Mumbo]

@ Scatz if he's not playing you i will

 

[Scatz]

Sure thing. We can play tomorrow if he doesn't answer back.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Sure thing. We can play tomorrow if he doesn't answer back.

heyo, I didn't check, sorry about that. I'm down whenever, let me know some other times you're good to go. I'm down right now if you are

 

[Scatz]

heyo, I didn't check, sorry about that. I'm down whenever, let me know some other times you're good to go. I'm down right now if you are

If I don't get the chance to play you tonight (gonna play @ Mumbo ), then I'll play you Sunday. Two jobs suck up all my free time x.x

 

[TomBoComBo]

If I don't get the chance to play you tonight (gonna play @ Mumbo ), then I'll play you Sunday. Two jobs suck up all my free time x.x

what time

 

[Scatz]

I'm on now if anyone of you want to play.

Edit: As of now, it wouldn't be good to play because some more family is sleeping over. Internet is gonna be bogged down for the night. On Sunday, I'll be able to play in the afternoon (8pm EST until 1 am EST). I'm in the Skype if you want to contact me there, Other wise, I'll leave the netplay ladder open then so I can see personal messages.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I'm on now if anyone of you want to play.

Edit: As of now, it wouldn't be good to play because some more family is sleeping over. Internet is gonna be bogged down for the night. On Sunday, I'll be able to play in the afternoon (8pm EST until 1 am EST). I'm in the Skype if you want to contact me there, Other wise, I'll leave the netplay ladder open then so I can see personal messages.

I'll be on at like 9ishEST

 

[NinKenDo64]

I've been consistently in the lab experimenting with Yoshi tech and seeing the relevance of them, and I feel I'm not completely doing my part of adding to the smash community. Idk if what I found is new, but I think it's worth sharing.

1. Out of shield options (high execution)
- If timed correctly, Yoshi can do any grounded attack out of shield by rapidly tapping jump twice and putting in an input, which might be hella broken. I tested whether this method would be quicker than just wavedashing out and throwing out an attack, and surprisingly it is by a few frames (except grab of course). You won't be limited to just up smash which I think makes the dinosaur have the most OoS options in the game.
2. Moonwalking
- Besides looking incredibly sexy using moonwalk can lead to many mixups because of the carry of momentum. Of course it's not as Micheal Jacksony as Captain Falcon's but I think Bair walls, aerial shield pressure, and pivot grabs can benefit off of this technique.

Apologies in advance if these were already discussed but what do you guys think of the implementations of these techniques and how it can evolve the Yoshi meta?

 

[TomBoComBo]

I've been consistently in the lab experimenting with Yoshi tech and seeing the relevance of them, and I feel I'm not completely doing my part of adding to the smash community. Idk if what I found is new, but I think it's worth sharing.

1. Out of shield options (high execution)
- If timed correctly, Yoshi can do any grounded attack out of shield by rapidly tapping jump twice and putting in an input, which might be hella broken. I tested whether this method would be quicker than just wavedashing out and throwing out an attack, and surprisingly it is by a few frames (except grab of course). You won't be limited to just up smash which I think makes the dinosaur have the most OoS options in the game.
2. Moonwalking
- Besides looking incredibly sexy using moonwalk can lead to many mixups because of the carry of momentum. Of course it's not as Micheal Jacksony as Captain Falcon's but I think Bair walls, aerial shield pressure, and pivot grabs can benefit off of this technique.

Apologies in advance if these were already discussed but what do you guys think of the implementations of these techniques and how it can evolve the Yoshi meta?

OoS options are known and yeah, Downsmash OoS and DownB and really anything OoS when Yoshi's shield has almost no shield stun, that's OP

Moonwalking would be good for positioning, but you'd need to be ready for the situation that you'd use it for.

I honestly think a decent amount of PM Yoshi players here don't use eggroll out of the sheer principle that people think it's a "brainless" move. Sure, it can be used that way, but then you get punished. Movement with eggroll can be super complex, leading into interesting mixups and seemingly random and unreadable movement patterns. Maybe the move is too good, I actually quite agree that it needs a nerf, but that's no reason to not use it now! It's good, it's a fantastic tool, and while it might not be something "required" or a "necessity" to Yoshi's game, it's pretty damn close.

 

[NinKenDo64]

OoS options are known and yeah, Downsmash OoS and DownB and really anything OoS when Yoshi's shield has almost no shield stun, that's OP

Moonwalking would be good for positioning, but you'd need to be ready for the situation that you'd use it for.

I honestly think a decent amount of PM Yoshi players here don't use eggroll out of the sheer principle that people think it's a "brainless" move. Sure, it can be used that way, but then you get punished. Movement with eggroll can be super complex, leading into interesting mixups and seemingly random and unreadable movement patterns. Maybe the move is too good, I actually quite agree that it needs a nerf, but that's no reason to not use it now! It's good, it's a fantastic tool, and while it might not be something "required" or a "necessity" to Yoshi's game, it's pretty damn close.

Dude I love eggroll. Great mixup potential and good for conditioning your opponent. I'm still using it for tech chases like you suggested to me a while back at CEO. If people were annoyed at "brainless" moves fox mains wouldn't be using shine so much. It's good, and when you go against good players in tourney, you gotta use your tools to your advantage. Yoshi's bag o' tricks are ridiculous.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Dude I love eggroll. Great mixup potential and good for conditioning your opponent. I'm still using it for tech chases like you suggested to me a while back at CEO. If people were annoyed at "brainless" moves fox mains wouldn't be using shine so much. It's good, and when you go against good players in tourney, you gotta use your tools to your advantage. Yoshi's bag o' tricks are ridiculous.

CEO was a blast. I didn't realize that the setup Yoshi dittos were on had a line waiting to play me lol. I feel honored

 

[Kudrah]

OoS options are known and yeah, Downsmash OoS and DownB and really anything OoS when Yoshi's shield has almost no shield stun, that's OP

Moonwalking would be good for positioning, but you'd need to be ready for the situation that you'd use it for.

I honestly think a decent amount of PM Yoshi players here don't use eggroll out of the sheer principle that people think it's a "brainless" move. Sure, it can be used that way, but then you get punished. Movement with eggroll can be super complex, leading into interesting mixups and seemingly random and unreadable movement patterns. Maybe the move is too good, I actually quite agree that it needs a nerf, but that's no reason to not use it now! It's good, it's a fantastic tool, and while it might not be something "required" or a "necessity" to Yoshi's game, it's pretty damn close.

I used to spam that move back in his early release and thought that they flat-out turned Yoshi into a green Sonic. It is kinda brainless, but the main reason I don't abuse it now is because of how risky it is to get hit out of it in the air. No double jump = bad time for Yoshi. I still throw it out sometimes, but it all depends on MUs. For instance, I'll probably almost never use it against Mario or Falco. I don't think this move is OP though. It's Sonic's spin dash with less options and probably worse priority. This is why I favor using perfect wavelands more. I get the same tricky mobility with more options and less risk to my approaches.

Still, side B is a godsend to the character. Still very useful for tech chases, mind games, and recovery (obviously). I don't refuse to use it for it being "brainless", just a little overrated, but to be honest, there's a lot of other things I barely see other Yoshi's abuse, and I can blame that on the high skill gap. aMSa has clearly shown the explosive potential of Melee Yoshi, but sadly, parrying isn't as good in PM. That still leaves a lot of techniques that easily transfer over. Everyone plays character in their own way, but my way is a legacy built on what aMSa has shown us, so I play very Melee-esque with a mix of Brawl shenanigans. However, I don't think anyone here is a fully realized PM Yoshi tech master. That'll have to wait, but that's only when a player applies all the tricks and techniques the character demands from you.

 

[didds]

Egg roll's good, I mostly don't want to have it be too much of a staple until 3.5's release, then I'll reevaluate things when I know how the move will stand.

Basically I want to strengthen the other parts of my game so I dont get kicked in the balls by some egg roll tweaking in the next patch. I figure if I'm doing just fine without it (not that I don't use it at all) then I'll be better off when I use it more.

It's not exactly a difficult move to incorporate unlike mastering perfect waveland and djc shenanigans.

 

[Damp]

2. Moonwalking
- Besides looking incredibly sexy using moonwalk can lead to many mixups because of the carry of momentum. Of course it's not as Micheal Jacksony as Captain Falcon's but I think Bair walls, aerial shield pressure, and pivot grabs can benefit off of this technique.

I'm probably the Yoshi main who moonwalks the most. It's great for mixups and creating a false sense of security for your opponent. Say you're in neutral in a dash dance. A lot of times I'll dash away, moonwalk back toward my opponent and djc nair. A LOT of players (in my opinion way too many) are surprised and confused when I throw out a djc turnaround nair. They don't realize that Yoshi can turn in his double jump. All in all, Yoshi's moonwalk is actually one of the better moonwalks in the game. This is coming from someone who will moonwalk with Jiggs in between stocks.

 

[TomBoComBo]

@ K Kudrah do you have netplay?