The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[Super_Primid]

NEW YOSHI TECH
(Maybe)
Air Egg Roll Launcher
This move is actually an extension of the egg laucher (what yall called the egg roll reverse in this thread) that when u egg roll at a platform/edge/ground in the air u can reverse the direction lagelessly. It isnt like the tech where u go off the platform then reverse it. It is literall the moment the game detects that you touched the ground you go in the oppisite direction. (i think the turn happens on frame 0 or 1...)

The inputs are forward special in the air then start holding back BEFORE u touch the ground and Yoshi will reverse his direction.



This can be used for attacking/tech chasing/ recovery......... Yes i said recovery. Ill explain this too everyone if u want me to.....


I hope This can help develop Yoshi even more.

 

[didds]

Less than a half hour. Whos your friend? Does he go to versus?

Not a smash guy, just a buddy in Florida that if I were to visit I'd try to make time for some smash. And nice, so pretty darn close

 

[TomBoComBo]

NEW YOSHI TECH
(Maybe)
Air Egg Roll Launcher
This move is actually an extension of the egg laucher (what yall called the egg roll reverse in this thread) that when u egg roll at a platform/edge/ground in the air u can reverse the direction lagelessly. It isnt like the tech where u go off the platform then reverse it. It is literall the moment the game detects that you touched the ground you go in the oppisite direction. (i think the turn happens on frame 0 or 1...)

The inputs are forward special in the air then start holding back BEFORE u touch the ground and Yoshi will reverse his direction.



This can be used for attacking/tech chasing/ recovery......... Yes i said recovery. Ill explain this too everyone if u want me to.....


I hope This can help develop Yoshi even more.

please look at forums before you post this stuff bro. We've known about this since 3.0 released. It's called a reversal. Unless you want to learn Yoshi and/or main him, stay off here with "new tech" bull. Honestly, this my be harsh, but I hate people like you that pick up Yoshi for funzies and think you discover something "new" and you just HAVE to pride yourself and post it here where people like me, who have put COUNTLESS hours into Yoshi, actually drive his metagame. If you really believe you've found something new, actually look at the forums and find if the tech is already known. HECK if you just popped your head into youtube and searched PM yoshi players, you'd SEE that most of us use this tech all the time.
Thank you for you contribution

 

[Super_Primid]

please look at forums before you post this stuff bro. We've known about this since 3.0 released. It's called a reversal. Unless you want to learn Yoshi and/or main him, stay off here with "new tech" bull. Honestly, this my be harsh, but I hate people like you that pick up Yoshi for funzies and think you discover something "new" and you just HAVE to pride yourself and post it here where people like me, who have put COUNTLESS hours into Yoshi, actually drive his metagame. If you really believe you've found something new, actually look at the forums and find if the tech is already known. HECK if you just popped your head into youtube and searched PM yoshi players, you'd SEE that most of us use this tech all the time.
Thank you for you contribution

You r correct at saying that i should've looked (also i did put maybe). And i didn't just pick up yoshi cause he was Yoshi i like him because of tge mechanics he have. Now i don't play competive because i am in the process of working on my skills. But i will say that i do know about Yoshi...... Sorry if i made a problem to u... I do want to join the discussin tho. Also Tombo i base my play style off of u a little

 

[TomBoComBo]

You r correct at saying that i should've looked (also i did put maybe). And i didn't just pick up yoshi cause he was Yoshi i like him because of tge mechanics he have. Now i don't play competive because i am in the process of working on my skills. But i will say that i do know about Yoshi...... Sorry if i made a problem to u... I do want to join the discussin tho. Also Tombo i base my play style off of u a little

Good you should. And also you'd piss me off far less by joining the discussion with a "hey, I'm new to yoshi help me out!" instead of a "hey look, brand new stuff you guys have never seen before jk its basic Yoshi tech"
what do you need help with for Yoshi?

 

[Super_Primid]

I always seem to mess up when grab parring i saw ur vid but i still can't get it down. Is there like a tier list off how easy/ predictable it is to grab parry someone. I find Samus dash grab to be syper easy to.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I always seem to mess up when grab parring i saw ur vid but i still can't get it down. Is there like a tier list off how easy/ predictable it is to grab parry someone. I find Samus dash grab to be syper easy to.

It's more reading when you're vulnerable to a grab than actually reading when they'll grab. That will change the more you play a particular person because everyone grabs different amounts.

 

[Mumbo]

Not a smash guy, just a buddy in Florida that if I were to visit I'd try to make time for some smash. And nice, so pretty darn close

Okay sweet, let me know. When you come around we'll play a few games and loser gets banished to the shadow realm where they can never use purple yoshi again.

 

[didds]

Okay sweet, let me know. When you come around we'll play a few games and loser gets banished to the shadow realm where they can never use purple yoshi again.

I imagine I would agree, but if I lost I would inevitably start using purps again lol.

I just wouldn't be able to help myself

 

[Scatz]

Gonna play to prep for Tipped Off 10 next week. Might get something recorded for feedback.

 

[Scatz]

Didn't get matches recorded, but got tons of experience and found stuff I needed to work on. Extremely enlightening experience since I don't get chances to play against the best player (Falcon) in GA. Actually got him off guard once and beat him before quickly 3-4 stocking me next game =(

 

[Mumbo]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QRLGkHOMYgF5MLET1ktq-VSNuiqI69I3aXAahfItxjk/edit#gid=0 Tipped off 10 pools

@ K Kudrah and @ Scatz in the same pool unfortunately, and with Wizzrobe to top it off.

On a side note, I'm excited to see that a lot of my SFL bros are going to make the top of their pools.

 

[TomBoComBo]

If I can beat Wizzy, they can beat Wizzy

 

[Scatz]

Well you DO have your top players coming from SFL lol. Still, no guarantees though. This is going to be one of the most stacked tournaments in terms of quality of players.

I'm not worried at all about Wizzrobe. Already got in lots of Sonic practice thanks to a player I've been teaching. I just have to make sure my game is on point since my consistency is volatile every now and then.

 

[Kudrah]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QRLGkHOMYgF5MLET1ktq-VSNuiqI69I3aXAahfItxjk/edit#gid=0 Tipped off 10 pools

@ K Kudrah and @ Scatz in the same pool unfortunately, and with Wizzrobe to top it off.

On a side note, I'm excited to see that a lot of my SFL bros are going to make the top of their pools.

I'm so friggin' PUMPED to fight Wizzy!

 

[Kudrah]

I have a decent knowledge of the Sonic matchup, but nothing compared to Wizzrobe's caliber of Sonic, but if Yoshi doesn't work out, I'll switch to Mewtwo.

 

[Scatz]

Terrible performance at TOX even though I got 33rd out of 100. Went Yoshi for only one match vs Wizzrobe since I knew I couldn't win in the current state I was playing at (tons of tech flubs all over the place).

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/570544095 @ 1:32:50

I have one more match where I went Yoshi vs Marth, but I have to upload it. Don't really have any others since the level of play forced me to stay with mainly Mario since I couldn't play Pika well or Yoshi (he wasn't even ready for this tournament in my eyes).

 

[Deviljho]

Quick question: Is there an Idaho PM scene? I recently went to Idaho for college and now I want to play more tourney stuff.

 

[didds]

Just got back from BH4 and performed pretty well (tho I wish I made top 32)

Got first seed taking a set off Tai from AZ, also took a set off of Lucky in pools bracket. Ended up getting knocked out by Lazarond's Link though I think I could've beaten him if I was more on point (3 SD's in two 3 stock matches is terrible -_-)

Not sure about my overall placing, top 48 or something?

but yea, it was a fun first national and it was nice turning a couple heads with the Yoshi. Nothing got recorded though so sorry about that

 

[didds]

Technically I finished 49th, sorry for the terrible misinformation you guys, I'm a bad person.

Either I'm a no name scrub and Yoshi is a boss, or I'm awesome... and Yoshi is a boss.

Yoshi is a boss you guys.

 

[Mumbo]

Technically I finished 49th, sorry for the terrible misinformation you guys, I'm a bad person.

Either I'm a no name scrub and Yoshi is a boss, or I'm awesome... and Yoshi is a boss.

Yoshi is a boss you guys.

Nope yoshi is confirmed bottom tier by any community tier list or any average or professional smasher's opinion. Congratz low tier hero u r literallt amsa

 

[TomBoComBo]

He's high and we ALL know it. I can;t tell you guys how much I wish I could travel

 

[jtm94]

Sup guys, been soul searching for a legitimate secondary seeing as I have deemed GnW unfit for tourney. I basically main Sheik/Zelda, but I'd like to put time into a second character that can do work in singles or teams. I'm alright at DJC from my time messing with Ness/Lucas/Peach/Mewtwo. If I could get it consistently what would the best smash be OOS? I haven't looked into Yoshi frames too much so not sure which is faster.

I watched 60% of your practice session with the Mario TomBo, I don't know the term for it, but I like the rising nair you were doing A LOT. I've skimmed through this thread a but as well. Why isn't there a Yoshi video thread? I saw someone say to make one but I guess it wasn't made v.v

 

[TomBoComBo]

Sup guys, been soul searching for a legitimate secondary seeing as I have deemed GnW unfit for tourney. I basically main Sheik/Zelda, but I'd like to put time into a second character that can do work in singles or teams. I'm alright at DJC from my time messing with Ness/Lucas/Peach/Mewtwo. If I could get it consistently what would the best smash be OOS? I haven't looked into Yoshi frames too much so not sure which is faster.

I watched 60% of your practice session with the Mario TomBo, I don't know the term for it, but I like the rising nair you were doing A LOT. I've skimmed through this thread a but as well. Why isn't there a Yoshi video thread? I saw someone say to make one but I guess it wasn't made v.v

The main reason why there's no real video thread is because most of us have no means to record as of right now. I think I'll be breaking out my capture card for more stuff to show you guys.
Best OoS smash is down smash or up smash dependent on situation. I personally think an OoS Nair is the safest option in most scenarios, (not the fastest, but it's safe). Most will tell you to DJC that, but I say that if you shorthop it you can change your positioning better and more effectively.
I'm glad you like my use of rising Nair, it's a very effective way to gimp a lot of the cast. Yoshi can go very far off the stage and even pretty deep. I firmly believe that every Yoshi should have rising Nair off stage down for those sick and effective gimps.
I hope to have more videos out as soon as I can.

 

[jtm94]

I found really cool vid of Angel on azprojectmelee. Also saw V3ctorman using a lot of DJC Nair oos so I see how useful that is.

Downthrow is the best throw yeah? For some reason I decided to use upthrow, and upthrow let me land uair in the situation easier than dthrow did, is there a reason for that? Or did my friend just suck at getting out of hitstun?

 

[TomBoComBo]

"getting out of hitstun" isn't a thing lol

 

[didds]

I found really cool vid of Angel on azprojectmelee. Also saw V3ctorman using a lot of DJC Nair oos so I see how useful that is.

Downthrow is the best throw yeah? For some reason I decided to use upthrow, and upthrow let me land uair in the situation easier than dthrow did, is there a reason for that? Or did my friend just suck at getting out of hitstun?

Downthrow floaties, Upthrow fast fallers is usually a good rule of thumb. I think Dthrow might also allow more horizontal DI (?) which could make avoiding follow ups a bit easier. Not to mention, dthrow will keep an opponent lower overall which will naturally give them better counter options since they'll have moves like fair to use instead of a dair, which usually come off as very panicky.

I saw that video of Angel and in my opinion shows off some really good high level tech. Raptor's Yoshi is awesome if you wanna see some Brawl tech utilized well.

As far as OoS options go, everything is useful in the right situation.

raw speed? usmash and nair out of shield.

range against laggy move? DJC nair out of shield will let Yoshi reach more with the strong hit or an immediate ground cancelled DJ out of shield will allow for a quick Dsmash.

need your own space? I've even thrown out retreating DJC egg lays due to it's great range. Or just jumped OoS and egg rolled away.

Wanna kill a floaty? Grouded DJ OoS to DownB. Kirby is dead at 75-80%

Lot's of room for quick thinking and looking for ways to creatively get that early kill. The main difficulty with Yoshi is knowing when to save egg rolls and DJ's and what not since Yoshi is an expert at shooting himself in the foot.

Make sure you learn pivot grab, it's a godsend against aggressors and just an amazing tool in general. Prolly the best pivot grab in the game. Down B has amazing priority and can beat out Sonics entire moveset lol and moves like kirby's dash attack with proper times.

Dthrow to uair is a bread and butter kill on floaties.

random thoughts i typed up

 

[Mumbo]

G

Downthrow floaties, Upthrow fast fallers is usually a good rule of thumb. I think Dthrow might also allow more horizontal DI (?) which could make avoiding follow ups a bit easier. Not to mention, dthrow will keep an opponent lower overall which will naturally give them better counter options since they'll have moves like fair to use instead of a dair, which usually come off as very panicky.

I saw that video of Angel and in my opinion shows off some really good high level tech. Raptor's Yoshi is awesome if you wanna see some Brawl tech utilized well.

As far as OoS options go, everything is useful in the right situation.

raw speed? usmash and nair out of shield.

range against laggy move? DJC nair out of shield will let Yoshi reach more with the strong hit or an immediate ground cancelled DJ out of shield will allow for a quick Dsmash.

need your own space? I've even thrown out retreating DJC egg lays due to it's great range. Or just jumped OoS and egg rolled away.

Wanna kill a floaty? Grouded DJ OoS to DownB. Kirby is dead at 75-80%

Lot's of room for quick thinking and looking for ways to creatively get that early kill. The main difficulty with Yoshi is knowing when to save egg rolls and DJ's and what not since Yoshi is an expert at shooting himself in the foot.

Make sure you learn pivot grab, it's a godsend against aggressors and just an amazing tool in general. Prolly the best pivot grab in the game. Down B has amazing priority and can beat out Sonics entire moveset lol and moves like kirby's dash attack with proper times.

Dthrow to uair is a bread and butter kill on floaties.

random thoughts i typed up

grounded down b is my new favorite thing. It absolutely decimates luigi, who i though was a bad matchup for yoshi before. I learned that from qwinn at a versus weekly a couple months ago in his set against blea gelo (which is a brilliant set to watch if you want to learn how to play luigi. Ill try to find it.) luigi likes to wavedash or down b in since those are really his only two approach options, and a read or even a reactionary down b will pop him up and out of it and kill him at really early percents.

 

[Mumbo]

"getting out of hitstun" isn't a thing lol

He means acting when hitstun ends as early as possible.

 

[jtm94]

He means acting when hitstun ends as early as possible.

Yeah I was wondering if he was not acting fast enough or if it actually worked, because he didn't seem to be able to DI uthrow as hard.

Sonic's uair beats out Yoshi DownB unfortunately. I really like the potential for egg lay, but the way it launches opponents up is weird. I try getting above them with dair to catch them out of it.

 

[Mumbo]

Yeah I was wondering if he was not acting fast enough or if it actually worked, because he didn't seem to be able to DI uthrow as hard.

Sonic's uair beats out Yoshi DownB unfortunately. I really like the potential for egg lay, but the way it launches opponents up is weird. I try getting above them with dair to catch them out of it.

Egglay gives the opponent invincibility when they pop out. You want to pay attention to what the do after they get egglayed the first time. If they sit in the egg for a long time without mashing out, you want to follow up with a dair or a bair. If they pop out immediately and do some random action like a random aerial or an airdodge, then it can be good to wait that out and then follow up. If they are super pros and they pop out of the egg immediately or when they pop out they have full control over their character, egg throw is the best option.

Usually, I just like to eggthrow slightly above the egglay to catch them out of their invincibility and try to follow up off of the egg throw.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Egglay gives the opponent invincibility when they pop out. You want to pay attention to what the do after they get egglayed the first time. If they sit in the egg for a long time without mashing out, you want to follow up with a dair or a bair. If they pop out immediately and do some random action like a random aerial or an airdodge, then it can be good to wait that out and then follow up. If they are super pros and they pop out of the egg immediately or when they pop out they have full control over their character, egg throw is the best option.

Usually, I just like to eggthrow slightly above the egglay to catch them out of their invincibility and try to follow up off of the egg throw.

they lose their invincibility if they do a move. And adding to what you said, if they just sit in egg, you can try an egglay kill when recovering because they won't expect it

 

[Damp]

Unexpected egglays at ledge against spacies is too fun.

 

[Mumbo]

http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/b/578540024?t=01h46m26s don't pay attention to the higher voiced commentator, he has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Sylnic]

Nice set. Was pretty impressed with some of your reads and combos on both floaty characters. I can't combo them for **** =/

Anyway, I saw plenty of times where you could have opted for a DJL Down Smash or Forward Smash OoS. It likely would have ended his stock rather than just pushed him out with a DJC Nair. I'm assuming you're not comfortable with DJL OoS yet?

Also, you never seemed to opt for grabbing the ledge. You would often recover high, and I don't remember seeing you mix it up much by Down-B'ing to the ledge. I think there were also a few times you could have done an egglay on your way back to stage to cover your front.

Oh, and try to be a little less Down-B happy. I understand it's a great kill move against floaties, but it left you open so many times.

 

[Mumbo]

Nice set. Was pretty impressed with some of your reads and combos on both floaty characters. I can't combo them for **** =/

Anyway, I saw plenty of times where you could have opted for a DJL Down Smash or Forward Smash OoS. It likely would have ended his stock rather than just pushed him out with a DJC Nair. I'm assuming you're not comfortable with DJL OoS yet?

Also, you never seemed to opt for grabbing the ledge. You would often recover high, and I don't remember seeing you mix it up much by Down-B'ing to the ledge. I think there were also a few times you could have done an egglay on your way back to stage to cover your front.

Oh, and try to be a little less Down-B happy. I understand it's a great kill move against floaties, but it left you open so many times.

I turn tap jump off. DJL OoS is not worth turning it on for me.

Idk why I didn't go for the ledge more. maybe nerves.

 

[Scatz]

You use OoS Dair too much. A lot of situations where you had more benefit using DJC egglay or DJC Nair/Uair from your opponent misspacing their attacks.

Your spacing got you punished a lot. You need to make sure you're not always landing in front of your opponent after using aerials so that you can't get hit by a OoS option or a shield grab (easily anyway).

Lastly, get rid of Din's fire when it's on the field. A good amount of times you got locked down from them or got combo'd because they're placed in spots you wanted to go.

Vs Peach, respect her hitboxes. She's hella annoying to trade with.

 

[Mumbo]

You use OoS Dair too much. A lot of situations where you had more benefit using DJC egglay or DJC Nair/Uair from your opponent misspacing their attacks.

Your spacing got you punished a lot. You need to make sure you're not always landing in front of your opponent after using aerials so that you can't get hit by a OoS option or a shield grab (easily anyway).

Lastly, get rid of Din's fire when it's on the field. A good amount of times you got locked down from them or got combo'd because they're placed in spots you wanted to go.

Vs Peach, respect her hitboxes. She's hella annoying to trade with.

How do i get rid of them safely? Egg throw takes too long. Nair? does Bair work?

 

[Scatz]

Any aerial or grounded move. They're extremely weak, and almost anything beats it (ironically, Pikachu's Nair won't unless it's within the first few frames).

 

[TomBoComBo]

Here are a few Friendlies recorded last week. Keep in mind that they are from an HDTV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyl5aTGxDiU&index=1&list=UUWI1AyUEJNtJ7XRPK1A1A6w
(feel free to subscribe! more will be coming! including a new set of combo videos)