The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

guys, i dunno how the hell you wanna gimp snake???
in theory it's so easy i know.
his recovery is so stupid slow, it screams for a fair, bair or cypher grab(then fludd his c4 recovery)
but we all know THIS IS JUST THEORY
i myself have to fight a very good snake on a daily base and his DI is so ridiculous good i CAN'T GIMP HIM
he always recover high and survives with his DI til 170%
his spacing and camping game makes me mad and his tilts(especially uptilt) are so stupid broken
he racks up damage too quickly and kill us at around 100%
we can rack up damage quickly but we can't kill him fast (if it's a good snake) AND FOR GODDESS SAKE WE CAN'T GIMP HIM REALIABLE
snake vs mario is NEVER a 55:45

So wut you think the matchup would be for Mario vs Snake then, Judge? U need play more gayer and spam ***load of fireballz on him, Judge. I'm used to Snake's camping and spacing lol

 

[Inferno3044]

I see that a rediscussoin thread is needed. I'm gonna make one so that it's easier to talk about characters. I guess we'll start with Snake because that's the one in mind.

Don't close this thread though.

 

[Matador]

I beat Warpstatus's Mario like exactly 66% of the time with my G&W, and he's like leagues better than me in general, actually being a power ranked player (his Mario btw is quite good...I believe Vato taught him the character). I still think it's solidly 65/35, and the problem with this matchup is how easily G&W gimps you. Weak hit of F-air (or the strong hit for that matter) usually gimps, and his D-air is very scary offstage too.

His D-tilt is also mad gay to work around, since it is too disjointed and low lag to punish with a KO move, and stops most of your approaches. If he doesn't spam anything, you can never land F-smash on him since his ending lag on pokes is too low, so it's not viable for killing him. Saving Up-smash is critical against G&W, since it is the most reliable KO move against him.

I'd have to experience this or at least see a vid. I lol @ Dtilt, rarely been gimped by Fair (Dair...T_T), and I find Fsmash relatively easy to land here.

I agree that Snake is ridiculously hard.

Personally me, I think beating Snake requires too much matchup knowledge and patience to beat normally, since he survives too long and kills too early. The matchup looks doable in high level play, but it seems like only a few of our players have the skill to make the most of Snake's weaknesses (easy to juggle, limited safety on recovery moves). In theory, if you can set up a gimp effectively, you're set, but doing that is really not very straightforward.

The bolded is so true. If you don't take advantage of both of these aspects, you'll lose. How exactly you do this is up to the player, and takes a great deal of improvisation and decision making.

By the by...I only really want to rediscuss these matchups because I don't like arguing for or against Mario and hearing "well, he does horrible vs G&W and okay vs Snake..." when I feel it may be a little different from the one we previously agreed on.

I'm amazing, I **** both characters. Thoroughly, in fact.

 

[JUDGE]

So wut you think the matchup would be for Mario vs Snake then, Judge? U need play more gayer and spam ***load of fireballz on him, Judge. I'm used to Snake's camping and spacing lol

i do spam fireballs but it isn't safe at all
a good snake ps them 8/10times if you camp with them and you find your self in a uptilt....
at higher % you are dead
and if you fullhop them to decrease the risk gettin' punished he will DACUS throw them because there is a great time window where your fireballs are in an angle where they don't hit snake when he DACUS throw
i don't know...maybe it's just because the snake i fight has much experience fightin' a mario
i do pretty good against other snakes but still: snake is broken^^
i would say this MU is a 60:40

 

[vato_break]

matador come to socal, snakes are born here everyday.

 

[Matador]

matador come to socal, snakes are born here everyday.

Call meh Samuel L. Jackson...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yes please, I vote that Matador come to SoCal.

I can beat sucky Snake players, but ones that don't suck (I'm looking at YOU SuSa) make me cry. T_T

Fortunately for me, good G&W players are pretty rare, so I tend to be able to outthink them when a random G&W user besides me shows up.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Sucky Snake players is easy to **** w/ Mario

 

[Javon89]

I second that, in a matter of fact Mario can **** any character easily if they suck ( of course this logic is flawed because any character can do that) prolly not MK since he practically spams his specials then kills with F/Dsmash.

Failed attempt to troll

And Gerald you're a Journeyman already?! I need to post more.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

lol yeh, I just reach 200 posts

 

[Berserker.]

The kirby boards are discussing mario and you know stuff: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395&page=103

 

[fromundaman]

I second that, in a matter of fact Mario can **** any character easily if they suck ( of course this logic is flawed because any character can do that) prolly not MK since he practically spams his specials then kills with F/Dsmash.

Lol no... we can **** sucky MKs too... *lulz at the memory of gimping a scrubby MK twice today by caping a SL then FLUDDing.*

 

[HeroMystic]

I demolished some pretty average Metaknights. The closest character that could beat Mario with sucky skill is DeDeDe and that's if you keep diving into his chaingrabs.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You can beat Yoshi even if you suck...I just beat one in a tournament. XD

I just camped him so hard and waited until he was at KO percents. I survived to 200% every stock.

 

[Matt07]

Woops wrong thread xD.

 

[fromundaman]

Hero, I would say D3 and G&W (If the G&W knows how to space, but otherwise sucks.).

 

[BoTastic!]

Hero, I would say D3 and G&W (If the G&W knows how to space, but otherwise sucks.).

<---- 2 stocked NOJ.

yea definitly not G&W, lol. Probably not DDD either. I can only agree with MK.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If all G&W does is wait, and use D-tilt and aerials to wall you out, there really isn't much you can do...

And most importantly, if he doesn't spam, you can't F-smash him.

 

[fromundaman]

<---- 2 stocked NOJ.

yea definitly not G&W, lol. Probably not DDD either. I can only agree with MK.

You need to teach me how to play against G&W then.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs G&W can be REALLY tedious.

Basically the entire time, you need to be running away from him since you can't actually go into his stuff directly for the most part (if you get B-aired...you can try to SDI into him and U-air, although that is honestly not easy). F-tilt, Jab, and Up-B out of shield are lifesavers here, as they can let you punish his stuff when you do finally get in range. Fireballs can be useful if you predict attacks, but I wouldn't spam them lest he's smart and learns to catch on with the Bucket

You can do silly stuff out of D-throw cuz he's light meaning your D-throw ends quicker than usual. D-throw Up-smash actually works at 0%, but I'd recommend D-throw U-tilt and of course the usual U-air juggles for some relatively easy damage. Besides, you should save Up-smash against him until 110%.

This matchup is completely identical to Melee Mario vs Marth fundamentally imo. Camping isn't safe or effective most of the time, and you have to weave your way into range and do as much damage as possible before they get out.

 

[Famous]

Idk, camping with fireball is a high risk-high reward sort of thing...For the most part baiting a G&W to fill his bucket will leave him in an even more vulnerable state to camping...The downside is that if you don't keep tabs on the buckets fullness you could get caught off guard

I mostly use fireballs against a G&W when I get them offstage...If/When they are recovering horizontally around stage height, I would shoot a fireball to bait a reaction. There is but so many options G&W has offstage...G&W's I played would either get hit by it intentionally(smart ones), Bucket it or spot dodge it

You have a good chance of following up with a Fair or something if they get hit by the ball completely(this applies to all chars) G&W is even more vulnerable if he buckets it since it takes awhile for him to retract the bucket...If G&W airdodges, depending on placement you could follow up with something.

Lets says you shoot one and he airdodges a little over the ledge landing on the stage, you could easily pivot grab him out of the airdodge while hes landing...He could airdodge and miss the ledge completely, follow up with a biar for a stagespike attempt...

Its all about placement, just throwing some things out there

Also, if you ever footstool a G&W, Footstool-Nair is unavoidable if you do it fast enough...It has hella knockback offstage...You can also pull this off after a couple of Utilts

Have fun reading this wall of text

 

[kirbyfan66]

Jiggs...

If it weren't for the fact Mario had a bad recovery, this matchup would be SO in Mario's favor. But he as a meh recovery, so I say 55-45 Mario. Just stay on the stage and on the ground (unless SHing, imo that's fine).

 

[The Master of Mario]

If all G&W does is wait, and use D-tilt and aerials to wall you out, there really isn't much you can do...

And most importantly, if he doesn't spam, you can't F-smash him.

Can't you N-air-OOS Game&Watch and D-air-OOS Game&Watch. Mario's attacks come out faster than Game&watch so if you react faster they should hit. Unlike Other floaty characters Game and Watch doesn't have a frame 3 aerial so Multi-hit attacks like D-air are easier to land. Up-B-OOS works also but D-air is safer.

 

[Mariofan12]

I think Mario and Sonic should have an even matchup (50:50)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can't you N-air-OOS Game&Watch and D-air-OOS Game&Watch. Mario's attacks come out faster than Game&watch so if you react faster they should hit. Unlike Other floaty characters Game and Watch doesn't have a frame 3 aerial so Multi-hit attacks like D-air are easier to land. Up-B-OOS works also but D-air is safer.

It depends on how close you are to him, since you have to pretty much be in point blank range for that to work.

You can try to Up-smash out of shield for the kill in some situations, but generally speaking in this matchup you should avoid relying on shield and focus more on running away from him and baiting for an opening. Mario's shield is very easily poked by G&W, so relying on OOS options alone isn't going to get you very far.

As for Mario vs Sonic, Mario probably beats Sonic slightly, but then again you don't see this matchup in tournament very often, so idunno. You can force Sonic to slow down a bit with fireballs and N-air, and you kill him a lot more easily with your Smashes than he can kill you with his Smashes/B-air.

 

[Famous]

it's 55:45 Mario if nobody knows the MU...It's 60:40 if Mario knows the MU, roughly 50/50 If both mains know the MU

Basically, Mario has the tools to shut down all of sonics approaches and Nair alone outprioritizes all of Sonics Moves...

 

[BoTastic!]

I hate facing Sonic so much. I can never hit him and because of I always die first before he does.

 

[Famous]

Lol, cause most good Sonics just....run and wait...

It's basically a patience game...We got fireballs to bide our time though

 

[SKidd]

Our <3
Sonic is annoying to me, but it seems 50:50... lolfastrunning

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

man, my patience is rlyyyyyy bad when if i play a good sonic player up around my lvl, nubby or average sonics are not a prob to me

 

[condemned_soul]

I hate a sonic that uses gorilla tactics

 

[Douhneill]

It's spelled "Guerilla"

 

[BoTastic!]

Hmm maybe I shouldn't play sonic in friendlies, just tourney. lol. I get bored playing 8 minute matches. No wonder I lose against sonic so much.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah vs Sonic, I'll do the same thing to him as I do to Yoshi.

Camp his *** off and force that ***** to approach.

Sonic is your *****. Don't approach him. He has to come to you.

 

[BoTastic!]

Yea, not gonna play campy *** sonics in friendlies.

 

[condemned_soul]

It's spelled "Guerilla"

....sorry if i made you feel uncomfortable...you still get the point ^_^

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Playing a good Sonic that knows the MU and all those tricks sonic can do like spin-cancel is going to be a test of patience. He can easily stall and mindgame you with tht spin dash since he can charge or cancel it. He is also fairly hard to gimp correctly. His speed also makes it pretty hard to avoid him even with fireballs and Nair. But you have to admit that it is so satisfying caping him when he tries to recover with spin dash, or spiking him at the top of his spring. Our higher priority is makes this about 50:50. He has his own tools, but we have our own as well

 

[Matt07]

I think we need to start doing match-up's. We're kinda dead in terms of match-ups.

 

[SKidd]

I think it's hard playing DK
his bair spam scares me away from my bair spam
it's like he ouspaces me
:'( i try dair but i end up getting predicted and sakurai combo'd/smashed

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario beats DK though.

You outcamp him, his shield SUCKS so it's easy to just camp him all day and benefit. He's a huge target and thus easy to poke in various ways (such as fullhop spacing). When you get in, D-air and U-tilt **** him and once you get him in the air, those moves will punish his airdodge really consistently. He's retardedly easy to bait into F-smash because you can outrange his F-tilt with it and punish on reaction. He's retardedly easy to hit with Smashes in general due to the fact he has to airdodge a lot and because his edge getup game is AWFUL. When he's under 100% he basically has the getup attack. If you shield that, turnaround F-smash out of shield lol. Aside from that it is VERY easy to react to his normal standup or getup attack, which forces him to edgeroll a lot which is punishable by a Smash. And if you can condition him to stop doing getup attacks, free Up-smash on any other getup.

If you know how to do the Sliding Up-smash, full length Sliding Up-smash can kill him at like 130% easily when fresh. Landing charged Up-smash on DK is retardedly easy in general.

As for DK's B-air, he has to retreat it generally for it to be safe on block, and you definitely force the approach.

This matchup is only hard if you keep running into his U-tilt after he airdodges, keep getting baited by his <100% ledge attack, and run into random charged smashes all the time. Otherwise DK has no business beating Mario on any neutral stage.