The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[Pierce7d]

I don't think R.O.B. is really 65-35. It's probably 60-40. I usually just overshoot what I'm aiming for to get contradictions to my argument, so I can run it better over in my head LOL. (Mindgames son)

Mario significant outboxes most of the cast, and he also as good mobility. R.O.B.s aerial options have reasonable lag on start-up. Mario can juggle R.O.B. slightly, and does have reasonable options on him.

I think the real problem in the match-up actually lies in landing a K.O., which I think puts R.O.B. at a 60-40, rather than 55-45. If it were easier to land a K.O. on R.O.B., perhaps I'd think otherwise, but as it stands now, Mario will have a reasonable difficult time landing kills. Provided he doesn't stale his Usmash, it will probably be his best K.O. move in this match-up, and it will be tricky to land on R.O.B..

(I still think Marth wins 70-30 though)

 

[Famous]

Lol, not even close...70-30 is sooo far fetched...but let's not go there...

 

[:mad:]

Lol, not even close...70-30 is sooo ...but let's not go there...

We're discussing Bawrl, not Pogeymon.

 

[ZOM~B]

ROB's Dsmash isn't a problem if you have good DI.

This isn't true. If you DI out of ROBs down smash half the time you'll be grabbed or ftilted since it ends so soon.

 

[:mad:]

This isn't true. If you DI out of ROBs down smash half the time you'll be grabbed or ftilted since it ends so soon.

That's hardly ever the case, because so few people break out, and ROB hardly has the time to react. Mario can Nair or spotdodge once free, try again.

 

[ZOM~B]

That's hardly ever the case, because so few people break out, and ROB hardly has the time to react. Mario can Nair or spotdodge once free, try again.

If I play against someone who does it.

The first time : oh wow they broke out.

The second time: grab for bonus 13-14 damage.

 

[HeroMystic]

Here we go again...

 

[:mad:]

If I play against someone who does it.

The first time : oh wow they broke out.

The second time: grab for bonus 13-14 damage.

Mario has more than enough time to react.
For this to happen, he'd have to DI out, then set the controller down and go get some chips if you wanted to grab him. Sure, it could happen once or twice, you might be on top of your game. But it's not a major game-changer than needs to be discussed this much.

@Hero - Yeah, I see why this was a bad idea. Suggest a character please.

 

[ZOM~B]

Mario has more than enough time to react.
For this to happen, he'd have to DI out, then set the controller down and go get some chips if you wanted to grab him. Sure, it could happen once or twice, you might be on top of your game. But it's not a major game-changer than needs to be discussed this much.

@Hero - Yeah, I see why this was a bad idea. Suggest a character please.

It depends on *when* Mario breaks out, and how fast you react to the downsmash. If it's both sticks up at the beginning of the downsmash then you saved yourself ~5-6% damage. If you get out at the end you just did ~5-6% damage to yourself.

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario/Rob is 60/40 Mario's favor. Let's move on to ZSS please.

 

[Matt07]

Characters I think we've barely discussed:
Yoshi
Samus
Ganondorf
Falcon
Link

Basically all of the low tiers we didn't really discuss, except Ness and Lucas lol.

 

[HeroMystic]

I don't think we've ever talked about ZSS, which is why I'm interested.

Link actually gets talked about alot, but Kirin and I kinda summarize the match-up all in one post. >_>

 

[vato_break]

we talked about zss back in the summer i'm pretty sure her metagame has changed alot. I actually play with a really good zss named warpstatus and zss seems to be about is sideB spacing and punishing

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I haven't done any of the discussions until we started this thread. I'm too new of a Mario main... man I suck.

Anyway, the one ZSS I played was just using Side-B all day long, and I didn't really have any problems (and I was sandbagging that whole time.)

 

[Inferno3044]

Lol, not even close...70-30 is sooo far fetched...but let's not go there...

Thank you Famous. That is what I needed to hear. I don't know what Pierce is thinking, he put up an argument saying "f throw to f smash then camp until time runs out" And ZSS might be an interesting matchup. I don't really know anything about ZSS except Dsmash chains to itself 3 times and side B is very helpful

Pierce, you have too many mindgames o.0 Also are you saying 60-40 Mario?

 

[KirinBlaze]

I don't think we've ever talked about ZSS, which is why I'm interested.

Link actually gets talked about alot, but Kirin and I kinda summarize the match-up all in one post. >_>

Yeah. I run the Link Match-Up Guide at AiB and they literally told me to do the Mario/Link Match-Up by myself since I play both characters very well. >_>;

I singly handily argued with the new generation of Link 'Mains' on this match-up too. <_<;

 

[hippiedude92]

Ive played Ninjalink's Rob alot in tourney wise (he likes to use rob alot now idk why). Your first thing is to get rid of the gyro. The amount of mindgames and things he can follow up are just so gay... but the discussion looks to near a end. I'd go 55:45 imo..

as for chars to discuss, zss seems fine. How about ICs?

 

[:mad:]

We did IC's a few weeks ago, we can go ahead and discuss ZSS.

55:45, arguable for 60:40 Mario? Any objections to this?

 

[KirinBlaze]

None for me.

 

[hippiedude92]

ZSS is somewhat weird matchup to me. ive played Snakeee's ZSS before couple of times with Mario.. but rest were Luigi since he sucks against luigi from what he says lol..

Comboing Zss ain't that half bad espically from below since she doesn't highly excel from below but beware her downb as it can spike. Try not to get dsmash'd at all. This is where at least 0 to 40 damage comes into ****. Youll want to pressure her alot since her OOS options aren't the greatest on the block..

 

[Judge Judy]

Well, one helpful tip I have is that Mario's Usmash literally outprioritizes all of Zamus's moves, including her plasma whip. Also, Nair outpriorizes Zamus's Up B.

 

[Famous]

Nice to know....FIHL works on her ForwardB for no reason, lol....Works well on her Dair though

 

[Matt07]

Ugh her side b is so annoying. It wrecks all of my approaches -_-.

 

[Judge Judy]

Ugh her side b is so annoying. It wrecks all of my approaches -_-.

Try approaching with Usmash.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Or try not approaching. Build a tent, get some smores pop-tarts, and camp.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Sexy RV Time! That's what I call my camping.

Unfortunetly I've never played a super amazing ZSS. So I have no input for this match-up.

 

[hippiedude92]

Kirin are you n00b? You live in NY residing one of the greatest ZSS players and yet no input? How bad lolz *jkkirin<3*

I think her whip is what they call "transcended priority" dunno if that's correct terms, but i know i heard of it from Pierce. For some odd reason, her whip (upsmash, upb etc) has weird priority or something, like luigi's nair can cut through her upsmash and upb so i'm assuming Mario's nair will act the same too.

 

[HeroMystic]

Transcended priority is when the attack cannot be clashed with. ZSS' whip does have clashing properties, so it's not transcended.

An example of Transcended priority is Marth's Dancing Blade, or the majority of Metaknight's attacks.

 

[But-itzah-me!]

Or try not approaching. Build a tent, get some smores pop-tarts, and camp.

Could this tent possibly be a Fireball tent?? :flame:

But seriously, it isn't hard to beat Zamus on the ground at all. Just keep Fsmash fresh while using Dsmash and Usmash whenever you are feeling violated by her whip.

Also, remember that Mario > everything Zamus has to offer in the air.

What I would like to know is if the cape would turn around Zamus's side-B if contact is made on the whip? I think that would be something to take advantage of.

 

[hippiedude92]

Transcended priority is when the attack cannot be clashed with. ZSS' whip does have clashing properties, so it's not transcended.

An example of Transcended priority is Marth's Dancing Blade, or the majority of Metaknight's attacks.

Oh that make senses then lol. i always hear the word, but never sure wtf it means >_>. Then no wonder Mk is broken lol.

So with this being our Nair ***** all of her whip options?

 

[Inferno3044]

Nice to know....FIHL works on her ForwardB for no reason, lol....Works well on her Dair though

I'm not sure if its really FIHL. The side-B just stops when you use FLUDD and same thing happens with her neutral-B, but its much smarter and more helpful to cape that. If you can predict a side-b coming up, squirt it with a little bit of water and it will go away. Practically, her best kill move is now resolved if its too predictable, and chances are they will use it excessively because its her best kill move and has a lot of range.

On other things to add about Mario's advantages, we can definitely outcamp ZSS, have better aerial game, and don't have difficulty gimping her (cape the down b and yer good. FLUDD helps)

We should get some comments from ZSS mains so that we are more accurate.

 

[HeroMystic]

What I would like to know is if the cape would turn around Zamus's side-B if contact is made on the whip? I think that would be something to take advantage of.

ZSS' Side-B doesn't have a hurtbox IIRC.

Oh that make senses then lol. i always hear the word, but never sure wtf it means >_>. Then no wonder Mk is broken lol.

So with this being our Nair ***** all of her whip options?

N-air and apparently U-Smash goes through all of her whip moves. I'm not sure if B-air does though.

I'm not sure if its really FIHL. The side-B just stops when you use FLUDD and same thing happens with her neutral-B, but its much smarter and more helpful to cape that. If you can predict a side-b coming up, squirt it with a little bit of water and it will go away. Practically, her best kill move is now resolved if its too predictable, and chances are they will use it excessively because its her best kill move and has a lot of range.

ZSS' Side-B is not her best kill move. While it kills, it's actually used for spacing. Her kill moves are actually Down-B, B-air, and U-air.

On other things to add about Mario's advantages, we can definitely outcamp ZSS, have better aerial game, and don't have difficulty gimping her (cape the down b and yer good. FLUDD helps)

Agreed on everything except for gimping. Zero Suit Samus has an amazing tether recovery, while it can be disrupted if planned accordingly (fireball her third jump while edge-hogging). So it is actually an annoyance to gimp her, although not too difficult.

 

[A2ZOMG]

ZSS is a matchup that destroys you if you have no idea how to deal with her. And quite frankly, I'm one of those people who still is like "wtf" against her.

So I talked to boss about it, and he's like you get her offstage, FLUDD her recovery and edgeguard her to death. Or something. It's probably really good against her down-b.

I did however sorta get better at one thing. Powershielding her Forward-B. I mean, it's not THAT hard to do, but it's REALLY important to do this. Because you do this in close range, you can punish her. And stuff.

Oh yeah, and uh...moar discussion on what attacks you can duck under? I heard Kirby is able to do that a lot to her...lmao.

 

[Inferno3044]

ZSS' Side-B is not her best kill move. While it kills, it's actually used for spacing. Her kill moves are actually Down-B, B-air, and U-air.

Really? I've played a couple and most of them went for a kill with side-B(which some i anticipated and used FLUDD) and a couple times to spike with down-B

Agreed on everything except for gimping. Zero Suit Samus has an amazing tether recovery, while it can be disrupted if planned accordingly (fireball her third jump while edge-hogging). So it is actually an annoyance to gimp her, although not too difficult.

I was talking somewhat relatively. She isn't easy, but she is definitely gimpable. I should have made that more clear.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS is beastly in the air, which is something not mentioned here so I want to say that. We actually are close to being a totally aerial character. We've got a few nice ground moves like side-b, jabs, and our badass tilts (ftilt outprioritizes, like, everything, not sure about usmash, I need to test that) but our fsmash is garbage and we love it when our target is above us. Every single aerial (save for nair) we have is high priority and can finish. Every single one (again, except nair) is also very powerful and deals a lot of damage (and can finish)! Side-b is a spacing tool, but so is bair. Usually, one of them will be decayed when kill time comes around because we'll use one or the other (and sometimes both) for spacing.

Mario also likes to gimp recoveries with Cape and Fludd, something that is probably not impossible vs. a good ZSS, but is very hard. We may not have the strongest recovery, but it is very versatile and we can come back from nearly anywhere on the field. You probably won't gimp ZSS unless she makes a mistake.

With that said, Mario can probably do a pretty good job forcing our aproaches on the ground. Side-b is pretty laggy to start up and end so we won't be able to use that when grounded (is usually SH reverse aerialed anyway). Like in the Luigi match, Fireballs are very annoying and can force us to close in. Once we're in, Mario's nair is a good way to stop us from getting too much combo momentum.

On that note, Mario and ZSS can combo each other about as well, so this match is very fun and IMO is all about momentum. In the Luigi fight, we have a lot of trouble because Luigi's air game is similar to our own but is faster. With the Mario match, your aerials don't have quite the speed ours do, and many sticky situations can be escaped with a well-timed down-b. In addition, our uair has a disjointed hitbox, which can be bad for you guys if you end up above us.

I don't like offering ratios because people usually disagree with it, but I want to say 55:45 Mario or 50:50, somewhere in there. It's very close.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

In the Luigi fight, we have a lot of trouble because Luigi's air game is similar to our own but is faster. With the Mario match, your aerials don't have quite the speed ours do

wdf, our aerials... are the same speed as Luigi's. The only difference is our dair and fair, which we don't ever use to combo anyway (dair can startup combos but meh)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

wdf, our aerials... are the same speed as Luigi's. The only difference is our dair and fair, which we don't ever use to combo anyway (dair can startup combos but meh)

Right, but ZSS rocks you from underneath.

 

[hippiedude92]

wdf, our aerials... are the same speed as Luigi's. The only difference is our dair and fair, which we don't ever use to combo anyway (dair can startup combos but meh)

Luigi's has worst horizontal speed, so Mario can benefit a horizontal aerial game better.

Right, but ZSS rocks you from underneath.

mostly at low %s tho. mario can cape stall to bait a attaack anyways.

 

[Matador]

Not sure about this matchup, I always figured 60:40 ZSS.

She's a master at keep-away and punishing for it. The entire time, you really have to chase her while watching out for all of her attacks that reach half across the stage. Once you get inside, it's pretty straight forward. She's a fastfaller, lightweight and doesn't have a Dair to break combos. The problem is that she racks up damage ridiculously fast and plays really safe. Getting inside is most of the battle.

I've fought a few good ZSS players and the matchup is never easy. I'm not sure if we can camp well here, I've never tried it.

 

[Kimchi]

Hello Mario Boards. We are currently discussing the matchup. Please come over to the Ike boards and provide some constructive discussion about the matchup. Here is the matchup thread. Thank you.