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The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

PhantomX

WarioMan
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Let me get this out of the way first, Mario will not be gimping Wario, nor do you have grab release shenanigans.

However, after playing BlueJay, who freaking wrecks, I can safely agree with a 60:40 for Wario. Mario can rack up damage really quickly on Wario with dairs and upairs and such, and his upsmash is like... super gay priority too, not to mention if the Wario isn't careful, the large range on Mario's fsmash allows him to get a kill really early. It's not that incredibly easy for us to gimp you either (but I can pull it off maybe once or twice per SET). I still wish someone could test and see if Mario's Cape can reflect the waft. I know Nayru's Love can.
 

:mad:

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Let me get this out of the way first, Mario will not be gimping Wario, nor do you have grab release shenanigans.

However, after playing BlueJay, who freaking wrecks, I can safely agree with a 60:40 for Wario. Mario can rack up damage really quickly on Wario with dairs and upairs and such, and his upsmash is like... super gay priority too, not to mention if the Wario isn't careful, the large range on Mario's fsmash allows him to get a kill really early. It's not that incredibly easy for us to gimp you either (but I can pull it off maybe once or twice per SET). I still wish someone could test and see if Mario's Cape can reflect the waft. I know Nayru's Love can.
Thank you, good sir. This went incredibly fast. Mario might gimp Wario once in a blue moon, taking player error into account.
 

PowaStar

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Hello I'm new to the Mario boards and all but I have been lurking here nad studying Mario for a long time so hopefully my words will be taken seriously....

Anyways I haven't found the match-up percentage yet but I have found some things I have learned in the match-up.

I found camping Wario with Fireballs and B-airs are a good way to rack up damage Standing Fireballs and SH Fireballs to mix it up and sometimes I do Full hop Fireballs just to mix it up even more.

I noticed that every time I D-Throw Wario he can IMMEDIATELY air dodge or take an action there was one time I tried to U-air him out of the D-throw I even used Input Buffering and my friend always countered with a N-air which always stopped me from going any further with my combos/strings I did find out at )% D-throw to U-smash does work though so I use that sometimes.

SH N-air or D-air OoS (Out of Shield) is just wonderful to use on Wario I mostly use this when they try to do a D-air F-air or any other move that I think can just punish them.

I tried to gimp Wario but I had no luck... the good thing is that he has a hard time gimping us too so thats good to hear.

Also when the Bike is out I make sure to not use it unless Wario is off the edge I throw it up if I think he is going to on the stage in the air I throw it towards him if I think he is trying to come from the bottom.

There was this weird thing that I did when I was playing my friend's Wario I used the caped when he did the waft and he got reversed and the waft didn't hurt me at all it was weird I think he was moving forward trying to do it on top of me then I just used the cape and he moved to the oopposite direction and shot off the Waft.

If Wario decides to use his bike to stop your camping you can B-air him off if he does a wheelie though you can still B-air him off but you both take damage I think if you use a U-air you won't take any damage as long as you space it right.

I played my friends Wario on all the neutral stages these are all the results I noticed:

Battlefield- To tell you the truth it seems even on this stage but I'm not to sure on this Fireball setups are hella crazy here though :bee:. The platforms are just wonderful to use U-air is so quick and also it can shield poke if you aim it at the tippy bottom part of the shield. D-air is also hella crazy here too. I noticed in this stage I had a easier time getting some U-smash kills on Wario especially when he was off the stage I would shoot a Fireball on the ground and to where it would roll in a slow paced motion just in case if was able to grab I would be able to get a B-air stage spike kill also.

Final Destination- Camping with the Fireballs became a much easier task here also since Wario is heavy I noticed that killing him from the top would not be a wise choice at all I used tons of setups to get F-smash kills in it was sort of a chore though... I did find out that hitting with the tip of the fire from Mario's F-smash can shield poke really good also it still has that crazy knockback for killing.

Smashville- Sort of the same results for Final Destination really I took advantage of the platforms too for damaging wise and recovering wise.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)- Oh this place is good for Mario well thats what I think to tell you the truth the seesaw platform is just wonderful especially if there on the downward tilted part you have a chance to get a U-smash kill the slanted hill on the stage is great to me when I shoot fireballs it sometimes pop-ups then just drops down so if a Wario tried to perform a ledge-dropped attack or something else they would take the fireball which would make them have to use the bike or use the corkscrew.

I asked my friend if he lost a match what stage would he choose to counter me he said Brinstar we played on there for a few and I think Mario goes with Wario on Brinstar thats his favorite stage to use Wario on and its not my favorite when I play him there...

Hopefully my advice is helpful to the Mario boards I was just trying to help and show my dedication to Mario thanks for reading :).
 

bobson

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I noticed that every time I D-Throw Wario he can IMMEDIATELY air dodge or take an action there was one time I tried to U-air him out of the D-throw I even used Input Buffering and my friend always countered with a N-air which always stopped me from going any further with my combos/strings I did find out at )% D-throw to U-smash does work though so I use that sometimes.
Pretty much everyone can do that, can't they? I don't think dthrow > uair is guaranteed.
 

DtJ XeroXen

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Pretty much everyone can do that, can't they? I don't think dthrow > uair is guaranteed.
It's not, if you're predicting an air dodge or attack, that's when you pivot grab.

I always condition my opponents to airdodge and then go in for the pivot grab (unless I'm online, and then I can't land a pivot grab anyway!) And then they're like "Osht not doin that again" and then I uair string them.

It's not even guaranteed on big characters, either.
 

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
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Down-Throw + Uair isn't a true combo, any character with a fast Nair can always break out of it.
Also, glad to have you here, PowaStar! We're fairly... inactive, lol. Except for me.
 

PhantomX

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If the Wario is truly good on Brinstar, you won't want to fight him there as Mario (or anyone, really), believe me.

Also, bair camping is pretty good, but the problem with brickwalling is that it gets predictable and readable, leading for easy punishing, especially with our ftilt.

You can't fireball camp Wario, btw, b/c he can jab or fair or ftilt to break them all, lol.
 

:mad:

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Yeah, that's true. We're one of the slowest boards on the site.
 

Matt07

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Eh not really, just people are busy with school still at the moment most users here are still in highschool.

We were really active last summer, so meh.

I never played any Wario's so I can't really talk about the match-up.
 

SkylerOcon

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I've found that neutral air is incredibly useful in this match-up (moreso than most match-ups). It's just easy to throw out an Nair, wait for the Wario to try to attack it and eitherer go up and hit him if the attack is faster ending (Fair) or just fall back if the attack lasts longer (Dair). It's usually a free 5%, and if you hit it closer to the ground it's a free 5% + a jab.

Overall though, Wario wins. Fairly heavy, nearly impossible to gimp. 60:40 Wario, methinks.
 

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
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Yeah, this Wario discussion went pretty fast. And ideas on who to start next? I was thinking Toon Link.
 

Matador

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<---has no gripes.

I just wish we had grab release "shenanigans" T_T

Grab release -> Fsmash would be fackeen oresum.
 

PowaStar

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If the Wario is truly good on Brinstar, you won't want to fight him there as Mario (or anyone, really), believe me.

Also, bair camping is pretty good, but the problem with brickwalling is that it gets predictable and readable, leading for easy punishing, especially with our ftilt.

You CAN'T fireball camp Wario, btw, b/c he can jab or fair or ftilt to break them all, lol.
@Straked
Thanks for welcoming me! :)

@PhantomX
Oh snap I didn't know that this sure does change my thoughts on the match-up now.
 

KirinBlaze

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I've been playing this match-up a lot lately. Nair owns. Fireballs don't help as much as they would in other match-ups. Wario combo breaks with his Nair. We combo break with our Nair. You don't gimp Wario, ever. He's heavy and has some of the best DI in the game. It's definitely winnable though, you just gotta do work son.

60:40 or 55:45. Idk exactly.
 

PowaStar

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Before we move on from Wario I have a question to ask what stages????

What do we do best on against Wario?
What do we do equally on against Wario?
What do we do worst on against Wario?
What stage would we ban against Wario?

I would ban Brinstar to tell you the truth.
I find I do best on Final Destination against Wario
Equally I seriously don't know Battlefield?
Worst I don't know fully either I know Brinstar but I would ban that anyway.
 

KirinBlaze

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I've done well on Brinstar. I've beaten 7FO's Wario there once during a Ladder Match but I still think the stage favors Wario a bit more then it does us with his ridiculous aerial camping abilities.

Honestly I just counter pick Halberd for just about everyone. The first part of the stage is great for abusing aerials through, Wario can do this too but you should be aware of this already if you CP it. The small ceiling is great for KOing heavy characters like Wario fairly early, yes he can KO you there early too but this is a another given for heavy powerhouse characters against anyone.

I like Battlefield against Wario too. I've done pretty well there.
 

A2ZOMG

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Down-Throw + Uair isn't a true combo, any character with a fast Nair can always break out of it.
Also, glad to have you here, PowaStar! We're fairly... inactive, lol. Except for me.
No, they can only avoid it if they air dodge. If they try to attack, THEN they get owned if your timing doesn't suck.

Or if your timing does suck, you could always just U-tilt.

It technically is a combo in training mode, but it isn't fast enough to get past the bull**** airdodge timer. Now something like D-air -> U-air is better for getting past that.
 

PowaStar

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I've done well on Brinstar. I've beaten 7FO's Wario there once during a Ladder Match but I still think the stage favors Wario a bit more then it does us with his ridiculous aerial camping abilities.

Honestly I just counter pick Halberd for just about everyone. The first part of the stage is great for abusing aerials through, Wario can do this too but you should be aware of this already if you CP it. The small ceiling is great for KOing heavy characters like Wario fairly early, yes he can KO you there early too but this is a another given for heavy powerhouse characters against anyone.

I like Battlefield against Wario too. I've done pretty well there.
Hmm ok I'll have to keep Halberd in mind.

I would counter-pick Yoshi's Island (Brawl) it seems Mario does well there against Wario but maybe its just me.

@PhantomX if you used Mario against Wario what stages would you choose?
If you were using Wario against Mario what stages would you choose?

Also we need more Wario mains to come here and give us some of their thoughts of the match-up as well.
 

BoTastic!

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After facing 7FO, Hunger, and quik so many times, I'd have to say this match is 60:40 in Wario's favor.

Bair is your best tool against since it outranges all of Wario's aerials. Just be creative with it so it doesn't get predictable.

Mario can outcamp Wario with Fireballs. He can jab them at times.... but he still has to approach.

Wario will give you trouble offstage and in the air. Stay on your toes and don't stop moving.
 

:mad:

Bird Law Aficionado
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Nah, Luigi's better than Mario. His Nair's too ****ing good, let's do ROB now.
 

Famous

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For Wario, Delfino Plaza is the best stage for a CP...Very low ceiling meaning he will kill himself with fart if he does it...It also means easy UPB and Dair kills
 

:mad:

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Up-B and Dair kills? What?
Mario doesn't kill with SJP of Dair.
Wario doesn't kill with Up-B or Dair.
Who kills with dair?
 

vato_break

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sometimes landing kill moves is really hard against wario and dair's hitbox is out long so if he sidesteps he will get caught and maybe if he even airdodges so it's not much of a risk when you can land behind wario or just dj out of the way.
 

bobson

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My up-B is always too staled to kill.

Except on Corneria.

Corneria is amazing.
 
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