The Complete Mario Matchup Thread

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Your cape and FLUDD can be very annoying when recovering. I've had a Mario use FLUDD to literally stall me in the air when I was using UpB to recover.

I've never found cape to completely shut down lasers, but they do reduce the full extent they can do.

As people have said, get in close. It's much easier to fight Falco that way.

 

[pure_awesome]

Question: If Mario spams Cape, does the reflect box stay out permanently?

 

[Mario_ 101]

no. rofl. 10 rofls.

 

[Inferno3044]

Question: If Mario spams Cape, does the reflect box stay out permanently?

I've never tried, but I highly doubt it. There is a lag between capes. Plus, it would leave us open for an attack

 

[:mad:]

He doesn't need to permanently reflect the lasers, one cape can reflect 1 set of SHDL's.

So, yeah. No.

 

[pure_awesome]

Right, which Falco can then reflect back thanks to his zero lag.

Anyway, that's not an important part of the match-up at all. I was just curious as to the properties of Mario's cape and my Wii is currently in transit to Nintendo to be fixed.


Moving along.

Falco's air game > Mario's air game?

Falco's Bair is godly and can beat Wolf's Bair cleanly.
Discuss.

 

[Mario_ 101]

overall that doesn't matter because mario's air game is better. Mario can juggle well in the air, he can fit two aerials in a SH, ex: double up air, double b air, up air->n air... well you get the point. mario also has up air blind, and all his aerials link together well pretty much.

 

[:mad:]

Mario can SH double bair. All of his aerials are relatively faster. Falco's best aerials are Dair, Bair, and Nair. Mario doesn't have any bad moves in the air, excluding his slow Fair, but it still spikes.

Overall, Mario has the better air game.

 

[SKnickers03]

does mario have a chance to recover from a falco chaingrab to spike?? i havent played too many falcos, so havent been able to escape death from that cursed corkscrew nonsense...especially at low to mid damage

 

[Famous]

does mario have a chance to recover from a falco chaingrab to spike?? i havent played too many falcos, so havent been able to escape death from that cursed corkscrew nonsense...especially at low to mid damage

You can either DI away from Falco, Nair or Smash DI towards the stage after he Dairs....

Or just get hit and use your 2nd jump, cape stall and UpB...Its not that hard to escape...and being chaingrabbed is nothing to be afraid of

 

[Mario_ 101]

theres also double jumping out of it and insta grab release, not that insta grab release is reliable >_>

 

[vato_break]

Yes mario can recover from a spike as long as you don't use your jump during the cg. You can camp falco with FH fireballs they can go over his reflector and just cape just in case falco lasers you in which case both laser will go back and hit him.Just don't get grabed and the matchup is pretty even.

 

[BoTastic!]

He can only chaingrab Mario to 40%. Mario can survive the spike every time. The % isn't high enough to kill him. The chaingrab really can't decide anything.

 

[HeroMystic]

The chaingrab isn't all that harmful, but it can give Falco the lead if Mario runs into it.

 

[Xyro77]

Cuz everyone's scared to go up to the fringe on either side. No one will say D3 vs any of the 5 infinit-able is 90-10 for any of them because when someone like Boss, Xyro, Bum, Vex, or...Boss again (rofl) beats a good D3, then it throws everything off.

The range is basically even to 30-70/70-30. Anywhere further is overkill unless call for by like an infinite or something.

...Except for Fludd vs Ness of course. There's like no hope for him at all.

Edit @ Kirin: Yeah, he doesn't ALWAYS play like that...only when he feels threatened. He's overall rather decent. Offline....lol half of what he does wouldn't work.

ill be honest, an AVERAGE ddd who tries the infinite i can get past. There are set ups they just cant get around. A well EXPERIENCED ddd that does the infinite TRULY does make the match-up 95-5. Like im talkin D S F or L A I N or C O 18

 

[Inferno3044]

Ok so two of Falco's greatest advantages (CG and lasers) are able to be stopped by Mario, we have a better air game, we can gimp you very easily, and we can combo better. Neither player can camp excessively because both characters have reflectors. Can someone tell me the facts about Falco?

 

[SKnickers03]

You can either DI away from Falco, Nair or Smash DI towards the stage after he Dairs....

Or just get hit and use your 2nd jump, cape stall and UpB...Its not that hard to escape...and being chaingrabbed is nothing to be afraid of

good to know...thanks

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Falco...I've beaten blackrose before irl. Not that I really know who he is. =/

Oh yeah, and I've done this matchup against Gishnak before. And cool stuff happened haha. I don't remember who won...probably he did lol.

It's a hard matchup...I think in his favor slightly, but winnable as long as you aren't on Japes.

Crouch and Cape lasers appropriately. Make sure you do not crouch for extended periods of time otherwise Mario will do the stupid animation that makes him able to be hit by lasers. <_<

Fireballs are still useful, if only for manipulating him at a distance. He will usually try to reflect them back.

His CG is devastating...however you can get him back with U-tilt and U-air juggles if you can read him right on one D-throw. When it comes to kill moves, Mario's kill moves are slightly better, but this is counterbalanced by the fact that Falco is going to harass you with laser camping the entire time, and if you jump into a laser and get unlucky, it might just combo into a boost Up-smash.

Yoshis is a pretty good stage against him IMO. The stage is the right size for controlling space against his recovery, and the depression in the middle is VERY helpful for ducking under his lasers.

Anyhow off topic, vs ROB...I've lost against every good ROB I've ever played. Sometimes I just wonder how you do it Bo lol.

 

[BoTastic!]

ill be honest, an AVERAGE ddd who tries the infinite i can get past. There are set ups they just cant get around. A well EXPERIENCED ddd that does the infinite TRULY does make the match-up 95-5. Like im talkin D S F or L A I N or C O 18

lol I never even used Mario against Lain. The infinite is banned here anyway so it really isn't a problem.

 

[Inferno3044]

Well in my opinion, when you are in CG percent, be near the middle of the stage so you can get out of it in time. Also, when he's shooting lasers im assuming he is either still or doing SH towards you. It might be possible to do a full hop over the lasers to approach and shooting fireballs while doing so. Also, there are a couple stages i hate playing on and japes is one of them. How good would Lylat be?

I still dont know the real pros about falco. All I know is that his jab has ******** priority. It clashes with a G&W 9 hammer

 

[:mad:]

Japes is Falco's best stage, and a bad Mario stage regardless of who he's fighting, excluding Olimar.

Falco has some lolcomboes, excellent tilts, decent range, and he can pressure opponents. More so than the majority of the cast. But there's more to Falco than just that.

 

[Exceladon City]

Word of advice: Don't try to jump out of the CG. It'll eat your jump and you won't survive the spike. Just take the spike, jump and then recover. If you have insane DI and SDI then you can wall tech and be like "OH SH*T SON I'M A BEAST!" and lol in Falco's face.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Wdf Excel, this is the Mario boards.

And I'm gonna try that wall tech thing.

 

[:mad:]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

Do this, Xero. ^

 

[bobson]

I hate fighting Falco.
Don't write off his reflector for dealing with fireballs. With our short range, it's difficult to punish. Also, mashing nair will occasionally interrupt the chaingrab if his timing is slightly off (or if you're, say, turning your router on and off purposely to interrupt his timing in an online match (not that I'd ever do something like that)).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well in my opinion, when you are in CG percent, be near the middle of the stage so you can get out of it in time. Also, when he's shooting lasers im assuming he is either still or doing SH towards you. It might be possible to do a full hop over the lasers to approach and shooting fireballs while doing so. Also, there are a couple stages i hate playing on and japes is one of them. How good would Lylat be?

I still dont know the real pros about falco. All I know is that his jab has ******** priority. It clashes with a G&W 9 hammer

Which reminds me, if he tries to do ANYTHING fancy out of D-throw, Up-B will either trade or deny it. Like...D-throw -> D-air/Boost Up-smash.

Lylat...it doesn't benefit either of you that much. The stage swaying can get in the way of camping or help you camp.

His Jab has disjointed range. It's disjointed as something like G&W's D-smash.

 

[bobson]

Which reminds me, if he tries to do ANYTHING fancy out of D-throw, Up-B will either trade or deny it. Like...D-throw -> D-air/Boost Up-smash.

The last Falco I fought liked to dthrow me and then just stand there like a great big ******* and punish my reaction, though, so don't do this every time.

 

[Exceladon City]

Wdf Excel, this is the Mario boards.

And I'm gonna try that wall tech thing.

I was lurking through the boards because I was bored and I saw the Falco thing here. Everyone seems to fret over Falco's spike. I've survived it with Link before so it's not that big of a deal. However, they can ledgedrop dair and spike you again which will inevitably kill you.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

@Excel- yeah Falco's spike isn't that great at low %s.

@Bobson- That's why you DON'T use Up-B all the time out of Falco's Dthrow, it's all about mixing it up man, especially if you can easily be punished.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Up-Bing works best on BF where the platforms can REALLY **** with his mind.

 

[Red Arremer]

Hey Marios. The Bowser boards are currently discussing their arch-nemesis Mario in the matchup thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=7287885#post7287885

We'd appreciate if you would contribute and give your opinion, but please don't post silly things like that Bowser is slow. Thanks. =D

 

[vato_break]

falco is easy lol if you feel like being a **** then just get the lead then plank...

 

[Matador]

Didn't we already do Bowser? I remember Mr.Eh being there.

 

[:mad:]

We didn't do a Bowser rediscussion, at least... not yet. Might as well. I still thing Mario has the advantage.

 

[hippiedude92]

I fight D1 in tourney wise, first time I fought his Falco, I got 3 stocked. Now after 3 months I can proudly say D1's Falco now 2 stocks me. But you get my drift.

Using Marios Nair will trade off alot of Falco's atks which is sorta bad but idk depending on whose better in ko power etc.. Youll want to be careful with the trickies Falco.. it's rediculous.. in my exp... CG isnt a problem.. though if you do land on stage, becareful into rolling towards them.. usually they just tech chase after that..

imo 55:45 Falco. Hes pretty hard, but not that hard. 60:40 / 65:35 on japes, CG to spike is just phail for Mario there LOL

 

[:mad:]

Lol hippie, that summary was just precious.

 

[vato_break]

i have to disagree i've played with dehf a couple times and i don't get ***** as badly as he ***** ranked players....falco isn't very hard imo mario has tools for everything falco can do...

 

[:mad:]

FLUDD vs. Falco is 90:10, so don't even bother using Mario. And I was generous enough to give Falco 10% on that on the offchance the water evaporated.

 

[Matador]

Mario vs Bowser feels pretty even. He has a ton of crazy grab releases on us.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Mario/Bowser is pretty even. He has those grab release/air release shenanigans on us and his UpB OOS makes it extremely difficult too approach him sometimes too. His Koopa Hopping takes care of our fireball camping and he can even use it to continuously use his aerials while hopping all over the place. I think his Fair has more range then Marth's too. He's big and all, but we can't combo him if we can't get inside him. We have to do work, more then usual.

He also has a RIDICULOUS amount of techs and stuff he can preform on Battlefield. It's probably one of Bowser's best stages if not the best.