The Competitive Brawl Stage Hacking Hub: Dat Valentine's Day Status

[GHNeko]

I've got the following working:

Multiple .pac files, because there's three versions of Spear Pillar?

Note: Platforms are frozen in Plussery, unfortunately.
Download here.

You know, if you could move the plats down so that they faze into the ground when moving (ie after we unfreeze) and then extend the collsion of the main platform downwards, you could have a ghetto child of PS2 and FoD-Melee. >_>

 

[Perfect Chaos]

I actually like playing on that top portion of Spear Pillar only, with Dialga (which is actually not that bad if you know the stage). Palkia and Cresselia is much worse... Anyway, all of Dialga's hazards are either not that bad, or can be seen a mile away. The only exception might be the breaking of the stage, but with good reaction, it shouldn't matter unless you were recovering.

 

[GHNeko]

That's what I'm saying, but have it so that the platforms at the lowest point are below the ground for FoD-esque goodness. :3

 

[Deleted member]

Well, my suggestion was more of an idea to implement the concept of converting a neutral to another stage and creating a CP than the actual idea of the hack. I knew most of these ideas were possible already.

Regarding PS2, the conveyor belts move towards the stage to create a different situation for edgeguarding and stationary, grounded attacks. Also, wind transformation needs something to not make it a transformation into FD. What if the wind increased gravity or has split seconds where it decreases gravity? Or it could be another FD b/c the rest of the transformations would warrant it to be unique enough to exist. Finally, the dirt mound doesn't seem game breaking like the rock/tree in PS1. It splits the stage pretty evenly without any really ridiculous corners.

And Spear Pillar would need more polish than the fix where the camera is moved like in balanced brawl. The removal of the top floor and moving the two platforms down would create a decent looking level without serious issues.

 

[Shadic]

You know, if you could move the plats down so that they faze into the ground when moving (ie after we unfreeze) and then extend the collsion of the main platform downwards, you could have a ghetto child of PS2 and FoD-Melee. >_>

That was actually my basic idea when we get an unfrozen version without the Pokemon in the back.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Regarding PS2, the conveyor belts move towards the stage to create a different situation for edgeguarding and stationary, grounded attacks. Also, wind transformation needs something to not make it a transformation into FD. What if the wind increased gravity or has split seconds where it decreases gravity? Or it could be another FD b/c the rest of the transformations would warrant it to be unique enough to exist. Finally, the dirt mound doesn't seem game breaking like the rock/tree in PS1. It splits the stage pretty evenly without any really ridiculous corners.

And Spear Pillar would need more polish than the fix where the camera is moved like in balanced brawl. The removal of the top floor and moving the two platforms down would create a decent looking level without serious issues.

Again, my original idea suggested the belts get slowed down to about 50% speed, but I'm still torn as which was the belt should go. Going outwards would allow for some interesting platform cancels into ledge hogs. Going inwards would make the battle more geared towards the center of the stage.
Regarding the wind stage, I would prefer some decrease of gravity over none at all. But like you said, it shouldn't be too much. My original idea was to make it around the same floatiness as vBrawl for use in Brawl+'s version (I don't really care what bBrawl/Brawl- does).
As for the ground field, my original suggestion was to leave the dirt mound as is for now, and if it proves to be problematic, then do something about it (but chances are that it'll be fine, since it's still smaller than the FIXED PS1's rock on the rock field).
The ice field can stay as is.

As for Spear Pillar using the top only: Shadic already has a version without the dumb camera/death-boundary issues that bBrawl's version had.
Spear Pillar's been one of my favorite stages to mess around on (but the Cave of Immortality is dumb, regardless), so for now, I just enjoy playing on the Dialga version with the top only.
I'm looking forward to when people find even more ways to edit the stage; it'll be interesting what people'll do. But hopefully, they can find a way to still keep the Pokémon, even if they remove some/all of the hazards.

 

[MK26]

I changed the NPC boundaries a bit. Ceiling is lower, sides are same. I actually lowered the limo a touch (so Ganon doesn't hit his head on the stage), then lowered the camera so you can see most of the limo, then lowered the boundary to suit. Overall it's barely different. I moved the final smash bones but it didn't work. Not that it matters.

MYSTERIOUS UNFORMATIONS
- Mr. Invisible Floating Breakable Platform is not nice to Ness. We must to evict his hurtboxes.
- Ganon can turning warlock punch off the boat. As you all know, this is a very important thing to do.*
- Air to ground sideB's can be fun kids, but star foxes don't stop a boat ledges.
- There are many, many waveland shenanigans with the main platform and boat. Most notable:
Ike's upB - he can retreat from it by landing on the central slanted part of the main platform. Facing left, you might be able to upB spike someone and land on the boat, sliding back toward the stage.
Yoshi's downB - This is so much fun! You can short hop a downB simply to retreat, but better than that - you slide right off the ledges! You can even do it off the tiny slanted piece on the left side (P1's spawn point is actually perfectly positioned for a grounded downB). After sliding off a ledge you can immediately ledge hog or pull out an aerial. I won't be surprised if NPC+ becomes a common CP by Yoshi mains.

* - he can also do this on Battlefield.

PAC tomorrow because I'm going to change a ceiling under the right ledge to a wall (like FD) but I don't think it will make much of a difference because it's a right wall.

Dr Pepper, I started PS2 a long time ago but never really continued because I couldn't change collisions. Now we can so... Anyways, I think the dirt pile should be squished, and the right wall of it be made a floor. The rest of what you said sounds good to me, only I don't know how to do any of it. And I would be happier with no updraft at all but that's just me.

woo...lotsa stuff here!

we decided that the easiest thing to do would be reversing the stage, thus no chimera and no limo. anyway, when it spawns really low or really high, it's just asking to be stalled on

now its an invisible floating breakable platform? ****, we gotta get froho on this **** to get rid of it D:

why wouldnt phantasm stop at the boat? wut

sliding and slanting stage shenanigans are completely legit...try ike's dair on the main plat

changing that ceiling to a wall? go for it if you want

 

[AMKalmar]

You can't stand on the really high limo. If you want, we can just do no limo. It's so rare of an occurrence anyways so it's unlikely that it will actually save you. Unlike Yoshi's Island or Frigate Orpheon where the platforms appear only when you come close to them.

 

[Deleted member]

If Spear Pillar did become a neutral, then the pokemon would break the neutrality of the stage. Unless the pokemon are nerfed completely, the two moving platforms would have to wait.

The idea of vBrawl gravity off the flying type transformation would be pretty good. It forces a change in gameplay style and is nowhere near annoying/gamebreaking. The idea of the conveyor belts running towards the middle of the stage would make ground spacing important when trying to punish recoveries, but the idea of out to edgehogs and offstage is interesting. It just would feel annoying trying to battle the stage and your opponent to keep onstage.

Again, I just want to see how many people would be behind the idea of PS2 being a salvaged CP and Spear Pillar being a salvaged neutral. We would gain a stage off this. Opinions go!

 

[AMKalmar]

I haven't looked into it too much, but we can freeze a single animation with codes now. That's what was done with Mushroomy Kingdom. So we could freeze the animation that creates the attacks.

Haven't tested it, but I imagine that the wind can seriously screw up your recovery as Ness or Lucas. Especially if the wind activates part way through.

The conveyor belts are annoying no matter what you do with them. Moving outward, you can cancel smashes into aerials for super edge guarding, and you can't ledge attack or step onto the stage without being pushed back off and having to double jump. Moving inward, it's much easier to get back onto the stage, you don't have too many ground attacks to worry about.

 

[BG3]

Has anyone thought of making the conveyer belts in PS2 straight(like the Stage Builder one) instead of it being slightly slanted? That might do some good.

 

[AMKalmar]

Does anyone know if stage events are the same as character events? For example, in PSA, event 06000D00 creates an offensive collision bubble.

I think the shape of the conveyor belts is fine. I have an idea of how they might work. I'll look into it at home.

 

[ValTroX]

so...if you guys unfreeze PS2, will you add a SSE replacement? I'm sure there are 2 platform, flat stages in there. Anyways I can't wait for the new SSS and I hope we get the fixed temple(I really have nothing against Shrine being on the old Temple, but Shadic's Temple looks awesome) and just some SSE Stages.

 

[Veril]

An unfrozen PSII will not be adopted by the B+ codeset. Frozen PSII is arguably the single most fair stage in the game.

 

[GHNeko]

Even if a carbon copy in the form of another stage is offered to take its place as a replacement?

 

[Deleted member]

An unfrozen PSII will not be adopted by the B+ codeset. Frozen PSII is arguably the single most fair stage in the game.

But, if PS2 was unfrozen and fixed and Spear Pillar frozen is just as neutral as PS2, we gain a stage to use as a counterpick. I can't see how this would be negative at all.

 

[RPGsFTW]

But, if PS2 was unfrozen and fixed and Spear Pillar frozen is just as neutral as PS2, we gain a stage to use as a counterpick. I can't see how this would be negative at all.

Agreed. PS2 would make for an interesting CP with the ideas given so far. And Smashville has always been talked of as the best neutral stage between all the people I've ever talked to/heard from on the internet.

Smashville > PS2 Frozen, IMHO.

 

[ValTroX]

Smashville > PS2 Frozen, IMHO.

I Agree
If a replacement is found, I don't see why you can't accept PS2 as a CP(after fixes of course).

 

[Veril]

I disagree with SV being as neutral as PSII but they are certainly in a class by themselves. BF and FD are nowhere near as neutral as SV/PSII. Yoshi's island isn't even starter material anymore because of ledge-canceled aerials...

The only way something could actually replace PSII frozen would be if it really had an identical layout, and I haven't seen anything that resembles this. If that does happen, than by all means unfreeze PSII and inclusion of it on a CP list will be considered (but not ensured, as with anything stage related)


I actually really liked unfrozen PSII (other than the gravity changing effect of the wind transformation or whatever its called), but I would never trade frozen PSII for the unfrozen variant.

 

[AMKalmar]

Feedback on the limo in NPC? I wouldn't mind it gone since it appears so infrequently. The chance of actually being saved by it is very small. Removing it would raise the bottom boundary a bit.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Feedback on the limo in NPC? I wouldn't mind it gone since it appears so infrequently. The chance of actually being saved by it is very small. Removing it would raise the bottom boundary a bit.

maestro (and believe neko) and i were discussing this and decided that removing it would be fine. plus, we could then reverse the stage and eliminate the camera problems caused by the camera.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

So I've done a little checking up on PS2, and I've made up my mind. The conveyor belt should definitely go inwards instead of outwards. And 1/2 speed might not be enough; probably somewhere between 1/3-1/4, but closer to 1/3 would be ideal, IMO.
As for the dirt mound, I still see a small chance of it causing a problem, but the ground field is still better than the fixed rock field of PS1, IMO, so most likely not.

 

[AMKalmar]

Adjusted NPC on front page. Still a few more things before we call it done.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm with you for PS2 being most neutral, then Smashville due to the floating platform making it situationally neutral. Yoshi's is really that much of a problem though?

Spear Pillar's platforms are bigger, and the base is bigger too. That will make the stage slightly different from PS2's neutrality, but that should retain its style and properties. If not, a fix can be made to compress and shrink the level.

PS2: The dirt mound is situational and breaks projectile camping. The worst is somebody rapid jabbing into the wall or comboing off the wall. It shouldn't be too much of a problem because its very situational and can be DI'd and teched. Also, its not a corner as much of a large slope which makes it better to DI out of jabs. This adds depth to the level by making people like Ivy, Samus, Falco have no room to force an approach similar to brinstar's small size.

Edit: Messing with the collision of the ground transformation's hill would make the level glitchy and take a long time to release too. These changes could be implemented pretty soon on both SP and PS2 otherwise.

 

[Alphatron]

The NPC limo doesn't matter either way. It isn't like the support ghost in the fact that it actually rescues someone, and it moves so slow that you'll notice when your opponent will attempt to run for it. It's still a shame that we can't find the chimera's hitbox data though. Or keep him fron spawning ithout freezing/reversing the stage.

 

[Akuma2120]

Is it possible to convert any of these stage changes into codes like the one for Skyworld's Platforms? I'd rather not lose all my cool stage textures

 

[AMKalmar]

Messing with the collision of the ground transformation's hill would make the level glitchy and take a long time to release too.

It really wouldn't.

Whoa! Especially with BrawlBox's new collision editor it won't!

So the collisions were easy. Scaling the dirt pile didn't work however. I'm guessing that's because there's no shown animation for the ground transformation but it does animate. I'd have to move the vertices.[/PSII]

Remove, remove if necessary, push back, extend (and modify collisions). Sound good?

I was thinking about it awhile ago and I've decided I will be making an alternate version of this stage. There are also a couple alternates I could do for NPC but they both have walls so I may not do those.

 

[FrozenHobo]

^^

that sounds good.

i'm going to take a look at shrinking the SP so we can use it as a neutral in place of PS2 (should the need arise ). i also have an idea for GHZ as well. i'm kind of busy this week and then a tourney on saturday, so expect soemthing sunday night at the earliest.

busy, busy, busy...

 

[Veril]

I'm serious about PSII. Its one of the most popular competitive stages and I'm not replacing it unless an EXACT replica is produced. Personally I think its the best of the starter stages, and I know that most players agree with me on this.

This is non-negotiable.

 

[AMKalmar]

So it's not going to be included in the official Brawl+ set. That's fine with me, I like frozen PSII. That doesn't mean we're not allowed to work on an alternate version.

 

[ValTroX]

I agree with Veril on PS2...I will only accept a replica, that means, if you can't find something in SSE that works just like, or better than PS2, I can't agree with unfreezing the stage(i don't like it's transformations much either, but it would be much more interesting with fixed air/electric transformations)
EDIT: @AMK: Can't wait for that temple, I'm sure it will be accepted as a CP, and we can use the new SSS to add Jungle there

 

[Shadic]

AMK - What do you mean by "Push back" ?

And I don't see anything wrong with the one I released earlier, besides graphics. It's even small enough for some feasibility as a 1v1 stage.

 

[AMKalmar]

I mean move the vertices back on the z axis. I didn't say there's anything wrong with it.

It's not different than your design is it? I was just going from memory, I couldn't find your post.

Found it.

 

[FrozenHobo]

i honestly like PS2 frozen and if the final decision is to leave it frozen then i'll support it. in the meantime we have planet of other stages that can be worked on while we argue on a final decision in the stage legality topic. wink wink.

 

[GHNeko]

Yea! Yea!


More MK1-2, PS1, and ****.

 

[VietGeek]

I think people should try to make a non-transforming PSII with a working battle display (although that would just mean accomplishing the former without codes I suppose).

It's somewhat disappointing that freezing/reversing the stage causes the HDTV Sakurai and friends implemented to go to waste.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm serious about PSII. Its one of the most popular competitive stages and I'm not replacing it unless an EXACT replica is produced. Personally I think its the best of the starter stages, and I know that most players agree with me on this.
This is non-negotiable.

The base stage has to be the same lenth, two platforms positions and sizes too. Match blastzones on all 4 sides. Then ledges.

So are SP ledges > or = to PS2's ledges or do they need to be reworked to fit better?

 

[FrozenHobo]

this conversation was brought up in the IRC so i guess i'll ask it here: for Summit+, should the platforms remain slippery, or should they be like regular platforms?

 

[AMKalmar]

Shadic, is that layout good or were you thinking more along the lines of this?

Gone.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Shadic, is that layout good or were you thinking more along the lines of this?

Gone.

sexy.

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