The Center Stage

[thegreatkazoo]

If you need some guidance on what or what not to use for a source, here is a good place to start...

 

[Smoke and smash]

That didn't really help. Lets do it this way. I used 3 sources during the pot topic, and none during the atheist topic. Please point out to me where I could/should have used more sources.

 

[Aesir]

You type in big walls of text, don't do that, split your posts up it's much easier to read it that way.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

That didn't really help. Lets do it this way. I used 3 sources during the pot topic, and none during the atheist topic. Please point out to me where I could/should have used more sources.

I didn't even notice the sources with the the weed topic because:

You type in big walls of text, don't do that, split your posts up it's much easier to read it that way.

...of this.

 

[Aesir]

I'm not trying to talk down to you, if you really feel you're ready then challenge of the DHers in this topic for a 1 on 1. We'll go from there.

 

[GoldShadow]

Omnicron should post in here and have a go at getting into the DH!

 

[RDK]

I second Omnicron. Not because I think he's a good choice, but because I want to fit in and so I'm jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I second Omnicron. Not because I think he's a good choice, but because I want to fit in and so I'm jumping on the bandwagon.

Oh... Well yes, I did probably the most awful debating on my part in that Atheist topic. That probably reset my vote for getting into the DH.
More time is needed, my debate skills still don't seem enough to get into the DH, although I think I see improvement from before.

 

[.Marik]

Give Omni a break.

He's an extremely insightful, informative, and intelligent poster.

Not everybody has the maturity to admit when they're wrong, and by the looks of it, he realizes that he could've potentially made a few mistakes in said provided topics and that he's willing to improve.

That modesty, plus the reasonable and practical way Omni approaches certain arguments, makes him a prime candidate for the Debate Hall, in my opinion.

Keep it up.

 

[GoldShadow]

I hope you didn't see my post as trying to make fun of Omni, I was being serious.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I hope you didn't see my post as trying to make fun of Omni, I was being serious.

I am actually reluctant to make an attempt at debating against a DH proper for now.
Maybe I'll try when I manage to get a chain of good posts.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I am actually reluctant to make an attempt at debating against a DH proper for now.
Maybe I'll try when I manage to get a chain of good posts.

Still on the fence with you...I do think you need more work on your sourcing, but you have definitely come a long way since we were both PGers though...

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Still on the fence with you...I do think you need more work on your sourcing, but you have definitely come a long way since we were both PGers though...

I can hardly remember ever seeing your name not as green or pink. You were a PGer when I was around?

What I meant by 'good posts' was that if I were to get about 3+ posts with:
- a good argument, most likely the winning argument
- reliable sources, not just Wikipedia
- an argument that is a little difficult to break down
- whatever else a good argument requires

What I must do is fully read the article that I am sourcing, that has been a bit of a problem, yet it can be easily solved. Also I need to start arguing on the winning side; I think that I have been doing that lately on the Islam and Christianity thread and the Legalization of Marijuana thread.

 

[RDK]

Wikipedia is not bad. It's good for gathering broad information and summarizing points; just make sure you tend to use the endlinks as sources and not the Wikipedia page.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I can hardly remember ever seeing your name not as green or pink. You were a PGer when I was around?

What I meant by 'good posts' was that if I were to get about 3+ posts with:
- a good argument, most likely the winning argument
- reliable sources, not just Wikipedia
- an argument that is a little difficult to break down
- whatever else a good argument requires

What I must do is fully read the article that I am sourcing, that has been a bit of a problem, yet it can be easily solved. Also I need to start arguing on the winning side; I think that I have been doing that lately on the Islam and Christianity thread and the Legalization of Marijuana thread.

I was a PGer for two more days when you came in here. Also considering that I was @ the WABA monthly on that first day, and I was getting ready for Gay Tek the second--yeah, not so much.

Understand that there are typically no winning sides to an argument, unless you are arguing against someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about (like Hooblah ). Sometimes, good debating is arguing a point, but then realizing both of you may agree to disagree. For example, toondiddy & I had a back and forth between the price of kids. Rather, than that discussion get very heated, both of us just backed off and let one another have their respective points.

Wikipedia is not bad. It's good for gathering broad information and summarizing points; just make sure you tend to use the endlinks as sources and not the Wikipedia page.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Hydra.]

Hello. I am posting in here because I would love to hear what you guys think of my debating so far, and let me know how to improve.

Here are the threads I have participated in-

Atheism and "Forced" Conversion
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8337662&postcount=113

The "Right" Times to Kill
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240684&page=10

ADHD- Does it really need medication?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8374379&postcount=46

Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8343661&postcount=7

 

[Crimson King]

Hello. I am posting in here because I would love to hear what you guys think of my debating so far, and let me know how to improve.

Here are the threads I have participated in-

Atheism and "Forced" Conversion
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8337662&postcount=113

The "Right" Times to Kill
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240684&page=10

ADHD- Does it really need medication?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8374379&postcount=46

Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8343661&postcount=7

All of the posts are extremely articulate, but it lacks credibility. Personal experiences only go so far. Try bringing in credible outside sources, and it'll improve your posts exponentially. Regardless, I am impressed.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Hello. I am posting in here because I would love to hear what you guys think of my debating so far, and let me know how to improve.

Here are the threads I have participated in-

Atheism and "Forced" Conversion
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8337662&postcount=113

The "Right" Times to Kill
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240684&page=10

ADHD- Does it really need medication?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8374379&postcount=46

Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8343661&postcount=7

Considering that you have been posting for only one week, there is some good stuff, but my sentiments mirror CK's: MOAR OUTSIDE SOURCIN PLZ.

Also, take a look @ this thread in order to help you source @ the maximum level.

 

[Hydra.]

Thank you so much.
Yeah, I have noticed this as well, and I've been trying to find more ways to put sources in my arguments.
Although in this post -
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8361756&postcount=144
I used pure source to backup my idea.

Also, take a look @ this thread in order to help you source @ the maximum level.

I shall do that, thank you.

 

[RDK]

I echo everyone else's sentiments about Aqua; your posts are impressive but remember that even when arguing subjective topics it's best to use facts or statistics to build as strong a case as possible, because everyone has different personal experiences, and it usually just comes down to a flamewar.

Other than that, I think you're good to go.

 

[hillbillyhick]

So here are my posts.

ADHD - Does it really need medication?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8200485&postcount=38

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8232652&postcount=42

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8378549&postcount=47


The center stage

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8191707&postcount=111


Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8366227&postcount=8


DHAI--Does Religion inadvertently promote bigotry?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8198092&postcount=6


Are Habits Hereditary?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8177074&postcount=2

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8216206&postcount=7


Is there evidence for MACRO-evolution?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8187012&postcount=46

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8190944&postcount=51
(After 50 posts no one had even mentioned or seen that the op's link was in fact contradicting his claim, resolving the debate from the beginning)

My threads:
Should we take action to limit population growth?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8198551&postcount=1

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8199196&postcount=5

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8200613&postcount=10

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8204531&postcount=18

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8213117&postcount=30

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8221798&postcount=40


Hard vs soft science - a real dichotomy? Is soft science pseudoscience?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=246046

These are all the posts I found. There's probably some more, but I did not willfully left any out, the good ones and bad ones are all in here. With these you should be able to judge my debating.

There's actually one more thread I made that involves a lot of debating (especially on my part), but it's in the brawl tactical discussion. Probably doesn't count but if you really need to see more:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245235
(my best posts are in the last pages.)

 

[GoldShadow]

I remember saying it before in that DH thread, hillbillyhick should be in.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Well, it's been how long since they let someone in the DH (oh wait, that was me a month ago )?

Hillbilly, you've come a long way in 3 weeks or so. However, your work in the PG makes me mad because you are gonna get in the DH three weeks earlier than I did!

(I am so kidding broseph)...

*Runs to go tell CK to put the Hick in the DH*

 

[Crimson King]

Let's see, I would really like to take 3 new people in this month. Hick, reading your stuff, and I think you need to apply to the Debate Hall, so I can add you.

@Aqua: Create a topic on something you feel really passionate about, something you can argue about for hours. Add citations, defend it for a few days, and I'll add you.

We'll need more people to step up now, as that takes care of the two in the front of the group. Any more suggestions?

 

[Hydra.]

@Aqua: Create a topic on something you feel really passionate about, something you can argue about for hours. Add citations, defend it for a few days, and I'll add you.

Okay, at first every argument I could think of was already posted, I used the search to check. Then I thought of a debate no one has posted yet and it's something I actually care about. I may need a few days to get it typed up nicely and to research a little bit. I don't have all that much time anymore because of school. But it will be done soon and I plan on making it a good debate. =D

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Is a debate in the PG ever actually considered won?

It seems that in the Legalization of Marijuana thread, everyone agrees that it should be legalized.
Or do we wait for someone to reply with a negative argument?

 

[Hydra.]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8396513#post8396513

I'm finally done making my thread, it took A LOT of hard work. (my eyes hurt)
Please go take a look and see what you think, thank you.

 

[Crimson King]

I'll give it a week to generate responses/read your rebuttals, then we'll go from there. It looked good though.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I do not want to take a shot at getting into the DH just yet, however I would like some of the DHers' opinions on some of my better posts.

"The 'Right' Times to Kill" Thread: (My first one is responding to Aqua, the next ones are a debate with -ACE-):
1. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8314823&postcount=140

2. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=240684&page=10 onto page 11.

"Pirating Music" Thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8398195&postcount=10

"Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?" Thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8389096&postcount=11
FIXED, no longer takes you to the Pirating Music thread.

"Legalization of Marijuana" Thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8324361&postcount=34
This one got into a bit of a heated argument, but it calmed after a bit.

I also think that this thread of mine went pretty well: "Islam and Christianity, Meant to Fight?": http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=247408

 

[Hydra.]

Omnicron, I don't understand why you would post this,
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8398195&postcount=10

All you did in that post was basically repeat what me and Altf4 had said and then threw your opinion in at the end, you didn't argue anything.

Your "Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?" thread link takes you to the Pirating Music post.

Your "The 'Right' Times to Kill" thread post #140, responding to me has no sources for any of the "facts" you posted such as,

"Also, it is in general human instinct to strike back when struck; that is why whenever a country starts something, whatever country they struck will fight back out of revenge, anger, or just to deem themselves superior once again."

Can you prove that? How can you really say that it's human instinct to strike back, when a lot of people are made fun of, or hit, they just take it.

and...

Selfishness has propelled us, as a species, to what we are now.
It is an act of dominance, of which is a mammalian instinct (Some birds and other animals as well).
Humans, however, have become so selfish that racism has developed; it is a branch of the instinct to become superior to not only other animals, but to other humans as well.

This may be true, but there are also many people that are not for dominance and are trying to make a more equal world.

Also I am confused on how you can say,

What exactly is your argument? It is a little unclear.

Here is my post-
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8314315&postcount=139

Maybe you didn't read the quote and my response and only read my response, I'm not sure. But my argument was who is to judge what species is better and why do we say humans are the "better" species just because they are the smarter ones.

My argument in the other quote is obvious to me, it's just saying I don't think killing is right even in war, and that they should find a better way to settle arguments rather then war.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Omnicron, I don't understand why you would post this,
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8398195&postcount=10

All you did in that post was basically repeat what me and Altf4 had said and then threw your opinion in at the end, you didn't argue anything.

Your "Why are the Beautiful People More Important these Days?" thread link takes you to the Pirating Music post.

Your "The 'Right' Times to Kill" thread post #140, responding to me has no sources for any of the "facts" you posted such as,



Can you prove that? How can you really say that it's human instinct to strike back, when a lot of people are made fun of, or hit, they just take it.

and...



This may be true, but there are also many people that are not for dominance and are trying to make a more equal world.

Also I am confused on how you can say,


Here is my post-
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8314315&postcount=139

Maybe you didn't read the quote and my response and only read my response, I'm not sure. But my argument was who is to judge what species is better and why do we say humans are the "better" species just because they are the smarter ones.

My argument in the other quote is obvious to me, it's just saying I don't think killing is right even in war, and that they should find a better way to settle arguments rather then war.

Selfishness has propelled us, as a species, to what we are now.
It is an act of dominance, of which is a mammalian instinct (Some birds and other animals as well).
Humans, however, have become so selfish that racism has developed; it is a branch of the instinct to become superior to not only other animals, but to other humans as well.

After that post, you said...

^^ I would agree with that.

If you do disagree with me then why did you say this in response to my previous post on that "The 'Right' Times to Kill" thread?
After what I had said, you stated that very sentence.

The "Why are Beautiful People More Important these Days?" thread link has been fixed.

About the argument that you wanted me to point out how it was unclear... Let us discuss that within the actual thread, not here.

Also, what I posted in your thread may have seemed to be what you and AltF4 had stated, yet I did not see anything within that thread about the threat of viruses on your computer by downloading pirating systems and a few other things... I added in a conversation that I remember having with my friend, and that was another yet false fact to be proven untrue.

I shall now post the evidence that I have to back up my claim that humans strike back when struck instinct in the "Right" Times to Kill thread.

 

[Hydra.]

If you do disagree with me then why did you say this in response to my previous post on that "The 'Right' Times to Kill" thread?
After what I had said, you stated that very sentence.

I never said I disagree, I was just posting counter ideas others could had said to counter your statement, since you didn't have sources. I did and do agree with you, I am just pointing out that you need sources for those "facts".

About the argument that you wanted me to point out how it was unclear... Let us discuss that within the actual thread, not here.

Okay we shall do that.

Also, what I posted in your thread may have seemed to be what you and AltF4 had stated, yet I did not see anything within that thread about the threat of viruses on your computer by downloading pirating systems and a few other things... I added in a conversation that I remember having with my friend, and that was another yet false fact to be proven untrue.

Yeah I was thinking about saying "besides the viruse thing" because I did notice that was one of the only things you posted that me and Altf4 didn't say but I just didn't, I don't know why. Also about that "fact"... I was going to say something to that as well.

One of my friends said that "people pirate music to preview it". What he said is not true; people download full versions of their favourite songs and instead of going to buy the actual song, they keep the pirated one.

How can you prove that isn't true? There are indeed people that DO pirate music to preview it, however, there are those that actually take the song like you said as well. Just because some people keep the song doesn't mean that everybody does.

"Thirty seconds isn’t long enough of a preview to get a feel for the music. That little bit could be the best part of the song, and then it’s money wasted. I’ll download an album, listen to it, and if I think it’s worth the money I’ll buy it. If not, it goes into the bit bucket."

http://www.fluther.com/disc/19980/do-you-feel-guilty-about-downloading-pirated-music/

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

How can you prove that isn't true? There are indeed people that DO pirate music to preview it, however, there are those that actually take the song like you said as well. Just because some people keep the song doesn't mean that everybody does.

"Thirty seconds isn’t long enough of a preview to get a feel for the music. That little bit could be the best part of the song, and then it’s money wasted. I’ll download an album, listen to it, and if I think it’s worth the money I’ll buy it. If not, it goes into the bit bucket."

http://www.fluther.com/disc/19980/do-you-feel-guilty-about-downloading-pirated-music/

It is strange indeed, because when people pirate this music to 'preview' it (even when it's the whole song in the same quality as the legal ones), it would be an incentive for them not to spend any more money on this song because they already have it, and they got it for free. This also takes into account that they have the full song and not a 30 second preview.
What I just said seems to be one of the many reasons people pirate music.

 

[Hydra.]

It is strange indeed, because when people pirate this music to 'preview' it (even when it's the whole song in the same quality as the legal ones), it would be an incentive for them not to spend any more money on this song because they already have it, and they got it for free. This also takes into account that they have the full song and not a 30 second preview.
What I just said seems to be one of the many reasons people pirate music.

Of course! I'm just pointing out there are people that buy the song and delete the pirate version believe it or not.

 

[Hydra.]

Crimson King- What are your thoughts on me now? Not many people have replied to my thread.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Well the Debate Hall and the Proving Grounds seem to be near death.

No one has posted since two days ago.

Also, double post, Aqua!

 

[Hydra.]

Well the Debate Hall and the Proving Grounds seem to be near death.

No one has posted since two days ago.

Also, double post, Aqua!

I already said sorry for the double post, I didn't notice no one had posted for TWO DAYS. =P

 

[Crimson King]

If no one is posting, create more interesting topics.

@Aqua, if no one posts by Monday, I'll figure something out.

 

[Hydra.]

I will make more topics later, I just have a lot of homework and a test I have to study for all day tomorrow.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

A few comments on my end:

• For those PGers wondering how to get better @ debating: Make more threads! Shoot, I made eight of them before I got in. The reason for this is that making a varied approach of topics to discuss, you will become more well rounded in what your debate style
• PGers, start calling each other out on your BS more! Finding logical fallacies (& overall poor debating) in each other's arguments should be second nature for you. We DHers shouldn't have to call them out ourselves.
• Don't repeatedly ask if you are close to being a debater. If anything, if you are debating right, a DHer will likely tell you so. Trust me on this one.
  (On a slightly relater topic: CK, would you mind opening up the DNT again? Thanks in advance. )
• Source all of your arguments! (when appropriate) Seriously...

I really want to stop being the newest guy in the DH, so hopefully someone will take these points to heart and get in the DH!