The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Sukai]

You're joking about Falcon, right?
A flame went on for roughly 3 pages because of a comment of that nature.

Fox's up throw to up air would improve him, but it's not a buff that he really needs, Fox is fine as is. Perfectly balanced.
Fast, fairly strong, great killing and gimping potential.
On the flipside the hitstun hurts him bad offstage, can't space, and his fast falling subjects him to combos and chain grabs that would only work on him.

He's a-ok.

 

[Roxas215]

We can't increase double jump height without increasing jump height as a whole, if I recall correctly. Otherwise I'd be pushing that as well.


Honestly though, Peach's killing options are awful. She's worse than vBrawl Sonic. >_>

You my good sir either have not played a good peach or don't know what your doing with peach. To say she is worse then vbrawl sonic is just dumb. I do admit though it seems to be a little harder to kill with peach in 4.0 then it was in 3.3

Everyone knows she is weak. If your playing peach and expecting to kill before the 150% mark then stop playing her.

Peach is a combo machine. She was one of the few chars in vbrawl who had true combos and in brawl+ she is even more amazing. Dair is probably top 5 best combo starters in the game. It really takes no more then 10-15 secs once u get a opening to get someone from 0-around the 60-90% mark. Also if your good at reading DI you can combo into fair,nair and bair.

Once u do get into kill range she has tons of options. Dthrow to jab to nair,Dair to nair or fair,Dtilt,uptilt to bair. She has so many options. Also her jab/tilt to grab options easily sets up these moves. And you can't forget about her 5 frame jab. It can get you out of so many situations.


The thing with peach is to get in there get your combo going and then get the hell out and look for another opening. While not the lightest char in the game she still dies well before the 100% mark against the heavyweights and chars like fox/falcon. But peach can also cg those chars because of the FF speed. Like i said in my other post. A peach player has to do anywhere from 70-110% extra damage then their opponent per stock to win. But since she has amazing combos this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also if your playing someone who is very heavy on the defense ABUSE IT. I cant stress enough how great peach's sheildattack and pressure game is. You can basically jab to nair over and over again until either sheildbreak or they just let go and take the hit. Also with her speed,floating,and turnips her pressure game is too good. You also can't forget about her edgeguard game either. If u can get a gimp below the 100% mark you are good to go for the rest of the match.

Peach really doesn't need any buffs. She is almost perfect as is. Only buff i can think of would be a slight buff to her fthrow. But someone already posted that the coders have yet to find the values to change throws. So until then i don't think peach needs anything added nd she deftinaley don't need anything nerf. Maybe just maybe making her sweetspot usmash a litte easier to connect with since she really has no combo that can lead into a sweetspotted upsmash. But thats not a big deal to me.

And no her dsmash does not need to be buffed. As a peach main in melee i'll be the 1st to say that move was kinda broken.

 

[Rikana]

You're joking about Falcon, right?
A flame went on for roughly 3 pages because of a comment of that nature.

Fox's up throw to up air would improve him, but it's not a buff that he really needs, Fox is fine as is. Perfectly balanced.
Fast, fairly strong, great killing and gimping potential.
On the flipside the hitstun hurts him bad offstage, can't space, and his fast falling subjects him to combos and chain grabs that would only work on him.

He's a-ok.

I'm joking about Falcon. lol I think he's great as he is.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

vbrawl sonic is pretty good. any character in any game is good if you know how to use that character

 

[Roxas215]

vbrawl sonic is pretty good. any character in any game is good if you know how to use that character

Sonic in vbrawl is a mindgame char that requires tons of patience to use.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Sonic in vbrawl is a mindgame char that requires tons of patience to use.

... like i said, any character can be good if you know how to use them >_>

 

[Shadic]

You could say the same thing about Melee. Doesn't mean it was balanced. The only thing keeping that game from being Sheik/Fox/Falco/Marth matches was the metagame. And even then, it was mostly those four.

 

[Roxas215]

You could say the same thing about Melee. Doesn't mean it was balanced. The only thing keeping that game from being Sheik/Fox/Falco/Marth matches was the metagame. And even then, it was mostly those four.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GHNeko]

...Would it be a good idea to give olimar max pikmin on the start of a match?

It just seems like its pointless to start with anythign less since the first thing any olimar would do is max out their pikmin.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

wow. *******. when did i ever say vbrawl was balalnced? im simply saying a character is good if you know how to use them. if i play my 3year old nephew in any game, i will win, because I know how to use the characters and he doesnt. -_- same with brawl+, if you dont know how to play you obviously cannot win. i never implied anything or even referred to balance.

 

[alvicala]

...Would it be a good idea to give olimar max pikmin on the start of a match?

It just seems like its pointless to start with anythign less since the first thing any olimar would do is max out their pikmin.

yes, it would be convenient since as you said the first thing olimar does is max out pikmin.

also... wouldnt it be good if every time olimar respawned after death he had 1-3 pikmin?

 

[leafgreen386]

Fthrow didn't kill in melee until like 150% if you knew how to DI. lol It just set up nicely for an edgeguard, which is really how she got most of her kills.

And her dsmash, although good, wasn't nearly as broken as everyone says it was. Sure, we like to poke fun at how if you CC'd it you got wrecked, although actually, that's only at low percents. In reality, if you CC'd the first hit of the dsmash at high percents, it helped you survive, and pretty much neutralized the move as a killing move. If you were at a low percent and didn't CC it, then you took some damage, but you were hit away and moved on. It was great at getting people off of you, and useful as a quick move in close quarters, but it was not the end-all be-all of peach. Her float is really what defined her.

 

[Shadic]

wow. *******. when did i ever say vbrawl was balalnced? im simply saying a character is good if you know how to use them. if i play my 3year old nephew in any game, i will win, because I know how to use the characters and he doesnt. -_- same with brawl+, if you dont know how to play you obviously cannot win. i never implied anything or even referred to balance.

Try not calling names.

 

[Roxas215]

...Would it be a good idea to give olimar max pikmin on the start of a match?

It just seems like its pointless to start with anythign less since the first thing any olimar would do is max out their pikmin.

Hmm i don't know. True oli's just pluck pikmin out at the very start of the game but there has been times where im peach and i pluck then glide toss a turnip at oli before he is maxed out at pikmin. Also max pikmin at start who's to say they won't get a lucky purple and hit u right there? It doesn't really effect me either way though. Maybe peach should start with a turnip in hand at the start of the match? lol

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Try not calling names.

try not being ********.

 

[leafgreen386]

wow. *******. when did i ever say vbrawl was balalnced? im simply saying a character is good if you know how to use them. if i play my 3year old nephew in any game, i will win, because I know how to use the characters and he doesnt. -_- same with brawl+, if you dont know how to play you obviously cannot win. i never implied anything or even referred to balance.

"If you know how to use them" is such a scrubby argument. You know that? Because no matter how well you may know how to use a character, if someone else "knows" another character just as well as you know yours, and that character happens to be good and yours is bad... which one do you think is going to win a tournament? Low tiers can win because the people using them are insanely skilled at mindgaming their opponent. They can read what their opponent is going to do and react accordingly. But almost invariably, if that skilled player learned a better character, they would be doing even better than they do with the low tier. If it was possible for them to play against themselves, they would win much more often with the higher tier character (unless the low tier happens to counter the high tier they use). When you get down to the matchup level, and you're just talking about how well a character performs against another character assuming equal skill on both players' parts, there are very clearly "good characters" and "bad characters." A "bad character" does not suddenly become "good" just because the player using that character is skilled. The character still sucks. It's just that the player is very talented.

 

[GHNeko]

Hmm i don't know. True oli's just pluck pikmin out at the very start of the game but there has been times where im peach and i pluck then glide toss a turnip at oli before he is maxed out at pikmin. Also max pikmin at start who's to say they won't get a lucky purple and hit u right there? It doesn't really effect me either way though. Maybe peach should start with a turnip in hand at the start of the match? lol

But I know for a fact that not all peaches start with a turnip in a match. Not in vB and definitely not in B+.

Peach's turnips are a staple to her game, but not 100% vital. Olimar though, pikmins are pretty much 100% if you seriously want to win and you cannot win without them. Its different. I have never seen an olimar not pluck at the start of a match.

 

[Shadic]

try not being ********.

Reported. Go away if you're just going to be insulting.

Also, read leafgreen's post.

 

[Roxas215]

But I know for a fact that not all peaches start with a turnip in a match. Not in vB and definitely not in B+.

Peach's turnips are a staple to her game, but not 100% vital. Olimar though, pikmins are pretty much 100% if you seriously want to win and you cannot win without them. Its different. I have never seen an olimar not pluck at the start of a match.

True enough!

 

[GHNeko]

So now that the arguement is done.

Olimar. Should he start with Max pikmin? I'm only saying for the start of the match, and not after each ko (though that wouldnt be bad)

 

[goodoldganon]

But I know for a fact that not all peaches start with a turnip in a match. Not in vB and definitely not in B+.

Peach's turnips are a staple to her game, but not 100% vital. Olimar though, pikmins are pretty much 100% if you seriously want to win and you cannot win without them. Its different. I have never seen an olimar not pluck at the start of a match.

I usually pluck 1 and go in since it throws off my opponents, they think I'll pluck 3.

 

[Roxas215]

"If you know how to use them" is such a scrubby argument. You know that? Because no matter how well you may know how to use a character, if someone else "knows" another character just as well as you know yours, and that character happens to be good and yours is bad... which one do you think is going to win a tournament? Low tiers can win because the people using them are insanely skilled at mindgaming their opponent. They can read what their opponent is going to do and react accordingly. But almost invariably, if that skilled player learned a better character, they would be doing even better than they do with the low tier. If it was possible for them to play against themselves, they would win much more often with the higher tier character (unless the low tier happens to counter the high tier they use). When you get down to the matchup level, and you're just talking about how well a character performs against another character assuming equal skill on both players' parts, there are very clearly "good characters" and "bad characters." A "bad character" does not suddenly become "good" just because the player using that character is skilled. The character still sucks. It's just that the player is very talented.

This is true!!!

A GREAT peach will still lose to a good mk just because of the matchup.

Once u get down to the matchup level it's not about how well u can use your own char it's about how well you know the matchup and know how to overcome your weakness in that matchup.

 

[Almas]

I would argue that part of the reason why low tiers can do well in tournaments is because many tournament goers are only accustomed to dealing with a very small set of characters (Metaknight, Snake, Dedede, etc.). These players tend to have no matchup experience against said low tier character, which is often very important in determining how a match goes.

And I'd also like to point out that the only reason quite a few people didn't just get a few clicks on the nice red card next to your names is because my browser crashed while I was choosing the most appropriate types of warning, and my pizza just finished. Consider it a fated sign.

 

[Roxas215]

I would argue that part of the reason why low tiers can do well in tournaments is because many tournament goers are only accustomed to dealing with a very small set of characters (Metaknight, Snake, Dedede, etc.). These players tend to have no matchup experience against said low tier character, which is often very important in determining how a match goes.

This is deftinaley true. My crew went to one of inui's tournament last month and for that whole week we practiced against mk,snake,falco,diddy,and game and watch. And then 3 member sof my crew including me all lost to kai's sonic. No one in our crew plays sonic so we had NO EXPERIENCE at all against sonic.

Like i said when it comes down to the matchup level it all depends on how well u know the matchup.

 

[Greenpoe]

So now that the arguement is done.

Olimar. Should he start with Max pikmin? I'm only saying for the start of the match, and not after each ko (though that wouldnt be bad)

No, I don't think so. Grabbing those three pikmin are part of his game. If that is added, then why not add all charging specials to be fully charged? Plenty of people like to start out by charging their specials anyway. See my point?

 

[Melomaniacal]

No, I don't think so. Grabbing those three pikmin are part of his game. If that is added, then why not add all charging specials to be fully charged? Plenty of people like to start out by charging their specials anyway. See my point?

That's a bit different. Pikmin are his entire game. What does starting with less Pikmin add to his game? Nothing.

 

[jokey665]

No, I don't think so. Grabbing those three pikmin are part of his game. If that is added, then why not add all charging specials to be fully charged? Plenty of people like to start out by charging their specials anyway. See my point?

I was unaware that every character with a charging special had to charge it in order to use smashes and aerials other than Nair. And their other specials.

 

[Blank Mauser]

That's a bit different. Pikmin are his entire game. What does starting with less Pikmin add to his game? Nothing.

What if he wanted to start off with different color pikmin by moving to another part of the stage first, or start off with a pluck-Usmash mindgame?

I don't think starting with max pikmin would change much, so might as well leave other options open when possible.

 

[GHNeko]

No, I don't think so. Grabbing those three pikmin are part of his game. If that is added, then why not add all charging specials to be fully charged? Plenty of people like to start out by charging their specials anyway. See my point?

What.

That's a silly example.

You dont need to charge smashes to win matches either. I've done it plenty of times. (Lol marth)

 

[FrozenHobo]

pikmin =/= charged specials

pikmin = olimar's moveset


see the difference?

 

[EtherealKing]

Hold R to start with 0 pikmin pls and ty.

 

[GHNeko]

What if he wanted to start off with different color pikmin by moving to another part of the stage first, or start off with a pluck-Usmash mindgame?

I don't think starting with max pikmin would change much, so might as well leave other options open when possible.

It'd put Olimar in less danger at the start of the match because every opponent knows that Olimar has to pluck pikmin and projectile users can easily take advantage of it.

 

[Eight 52]

It'd put Olimar in less danger at the start of the match because every opponent knows that Olimar has to pluck pikmin and projectile users can easily take advantage of it.

But Olimar is too good. If it wasn't for the second worst recovery in the game, he'd easily be the best.

 

[GHNeko]

But Olimar is too good. If it wasn't for the second worst recovery in the game, he'd easily be the best.

Not...exactly..He still heavily relies on pikmin, and it is a valid strat to KO his pikmin to weaken him.

 

[Cero]

Also, ZSS shouldn't start out with her suit pieces on the ground anymore.

But, that's already been discussed I believe.

 

[cobaltblue]

Why? It isn't random, the opponent can turn them against her, and they do disappear after a given amount of time. I can't see how starting out with the suit on the ground is in anyway unfair or broken unless you are one of those people who hasn't quite mastered item catching yet.

 

[Roxas215]

Also, ZSS shouldn't start out with her suit pieces on the ground anymore.

But, that's already been discussed I believe.

O hell no. They better not take away my pieces away from zss. They are not broken. Your opponent can easily dodge and throw them off or even use them to their advantage if they can. Taking away her pieces is stupid.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Lmao. You know what, I've suddenly lost respect for brawl+ since it's run by idiots. A bad character can be good trust me, I main CF in vbrawl. There are impossible matchups for me to overcome, but a "bad character" is only what you make of it. There were pichu mains in melee, and link mains in 64. Actually, let me not let 3 people make me think bad of b+. There's still Neko. I respect him. But a lot of you refuse to read and bring up pointless statements.

 

[Roxas215]

Lmao. You know what, I've suddenly lost respect for brawl+ since it's run by idiots. A bad character can be good trust me, I main CF in vbrawl. There are impossible matchups for me to overcome, but a "bad character" is only what you make of it. There were pichu mains in melee, and link mains in 64. Actually, let me not let 3 people make me think bad of b+. There's still Neko. I respect him. But a lot of you refuse to read and bring up pointless statements.

You main cf in brawl? Do you actually go to tournaments? How bout you go place even in top 30 with cf in a 80 or above tournament and then come back. I promise you will not beat even semi pro's with captain falcon. lmao.(This is talking about vbrawl of course)

And just form your pichu statement i can see you know very little of the competitive scene of smash since pichu could more then hold his own at high level of place. Pichu's cgs owned!

 

[Cero]

Why? It isn't random, the opponent can turn them against her, and they do disappear after a given amount of time. I can't see how starting out with the suit on the ground is in anyway unfair or broken unless you are one of those people who hasn't quite mastered item catching yet.

O hell no. They better not take away my pieces away from zss. They are not broken. Your opponent can easily dodge and throw them off or even use them to their advantage if they can. Taking away her pieces is stupid.

That's the thing... It could go either way. The pieces can either help you gain a huge lead in the beginning of the match or be used against you and do the exact opposite.

I've sometimes seen ZSS's just chuck their pieces off stage in the beginning of the match so they would eliminate the possibility of the pieces being used against them.

So, instead, how about holding a button, while selecting ZSS, would allow you to start out with no suit pieces. Or, vice versa.

I believe that would be best because it gives the player a choice.