Nodrak
Smash Ace
You sure? I could have sworn... crap now I have to go fight ROB again
-
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The Better Lucario Official Guide/Faq/Database (Now with More Lawl!)
- Thread starter Milln
- Start date
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Dang
10thousandfistsintheair
Betaz
Smash Ace
....... T.T
Tallen
Smash Journeyman
wow i really had my hopes up for a second there...
though the entire visit was worth it for the pictures. yeah beach Lucario > all =3
Can do, will do. <3
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
What's the story behind Lucario and Mew? The original picture of my sig had Mew in it, Tallen's sig has Mew in it, and now the the new picture...
Popertop
Smash Champion
Hey Milln, you should conisder elaborating on the matchups against popular tournament winners such as Snake, Meta, both DKs, Spacies, and G&W.
Strategies and advantages, things to watch out for and stuff.
I'm surprised you knew as much about Boozer as you said.
Also, his Ftilt has beastly range.
Strategies and advantages, things to watch out for and stuff.
I'm surprised you knew as much about Boozer as you said.
Also, his Ftilt has beastly range.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Good idea for the matchup vids. Btw, like the beach Lucario, all he needs now is an awesome surf shot (because I like surfing, and Lucario would look awesome hanging ten with blue flames!)
Nurotasama
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 465
I'm pretty sure Ftilt should be a 3% hit and then a 6% (might even be 5.5%) hit normally, or one 5% hit if tipped which will give more knockback at a lower angle.
Browny
Smash Hater
eh i dont know where else to post this so ill say it here.
if dedede is chaingrabbing lucario with a simple dash-grab he can be easily stopped with the a-a-a combo. however almost all smart players will use the shield-grab version. if you get caught in the first dthrow, try to a-a-a out, if it doesnt work, try to force palm instead. if dedede doesnt time the shield grab perfectly, you can FP grab dedede right out of it, since FP goes through shields, like ganons side b.
This wont work if the dedede player does the perfect CG, but even the slightest error on dedede's timing can lead into lucarios own chain grab
if dedede is chaingrabbing lucario with a simple dash-grab he can be easily stopped with the a-a-a combo. however almost all smart players will use the shield-grab version. if you get caught in the first dthrow, try to a-a-a out, if it doesnt work, try to force palm instead. if dedede doesnt time the shield grab perfectly, you can FP grab dedede right out of it, since FP goes through shields, like ganons side b.
This wont work if the dedede player does the perfect CG, but even the slightest error on dedede's timing can lead into lucarios own chain grab
Nuh, I looked at 'em when they hit individually when I was doing it. The percentages are as shown and "All Percentages are Approximate" still stands, because we'll always get random damages, especially with varying amounts of decay.
Wow, thats very good to know.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Ya, the stuff on Dx3 chaingrab is pretty good info.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
A friend of mine mains DDD, I've always been rolling backwards out of range when he tries to chaingrab me, he usually only gets 1 or 2 throws in before I escape like this. A few tricks he uses (except by saying GORDO GO! and having it actually come out) is that he'll footstool > dair > footstool > dair > footstool > dair. He'll space his tilts and smashes well and unlike most DDD players, he doesn't spam his chaingrab. What he does is throw > throw > dash attack which is one of his main killing moves.
June 1st, 2008- Diddy Kong section. Information and done for now.
Diddy's "complete" until more information arises.
Nodrak, your friend doesn't sound like he's gotten it quite perfected, yet, because he should be able to grab you before you have a chance to input any commands at all. Additonally, you're vulnerable for the first part of your roll and he should be grabbing you there, too. o,o
Diddy's "complete" until more information arises.
Nodrak, your friend doesn't sound like he's gotten it quite perfected, yet, because he should be able to grab you before you have a chance to input any commands at all. Additonally, you're vulnerable for the first part of your roll and he should be grabbing you there, too. o,o
Remember, in the matchup topic, the opponent is assumed to be a total master of his character and is at current top metagame potential. Those players will use their easy chaingrab to their advantage and will place all their attacks correctly.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
I didn't mean most people would screw up spacing, I meant he doesn't spam chaingrabs. Most videos I've seen are DDD's running jumping, maybe attacking for a bit then just continuously chaingrabbing whenever they can. He takes the grab > throw > attack option, that's all i meant by it and it works extremely well as a killing technique.
Also I think it's complete BS that i cant roll back out of the chaingrab. He's too **** technical to screw up something like his main's chaingrab. Besides I've seen his hand pass through me.. there has to be a way to dodge out of it. It's not like I escape then dodge, I DI back and dodge the second he lets go.
Also I think it's complete BS that i cant roll back out of the chaingrab. He's too **** technical to screw up something like his main's chaingrab. Besides I've seen his hand pass through me.. there has to be a way to dodge out of it. It's not like I escape then dodge, I DI back and dodge the second he lets go.
Oh. I apologize. I misunderstood. D=
As for escaping teh chaingrab, this seems like epic-ness... One of us should espionage over to the Dedede boards and have them check it out to confirm since they have us listed under the chaingrab block.
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Nodrak=spy!
Nodrak
Smash Ace
lol I'll check it out =P I'm not sure if they've gone too in depth about this though. Tomorrow I have a few friends of mine coming over, I'll spend a bit testing it out if nothing turns up on the DDD boards
Edit: It seems DDD users say Lucario is chaingrab-able. I know he is but I'm not convinced it's unescapable (at least not after 3-4 throws). I'll do some testing tommorow I guess, there's very little on character specific throwing that isn't an infinite chaingrab (the one DDD can do on DK, Mario, Samus ect)
If nothing comes up when I test tomorrow, I'll ask about it on the DDD boards, I just don't want my cover blown! =P (though it's hard not to with a big Lucario banner)
Edit: It seems DDD users say Lucario is chaingrab-able. I know he is but I'm not convinced it's unescapable (at least not after 3-4 throws). I'll do some testing tommorow I guess, there's very little on character specific throwing that isn't an infinite chaingrab (the one DDD can do on DK, Mario, Samus ect)
If nothing comes up when I test tomorrow, I'll ask about it on the DDD boards, I just don't want my cover blown! =P (though it's hard not to with a big Lucario banner)
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
I'm sure it has to do with the fact that Lucario is incredibly floaty. Lucario cannot be chaingrabbed by Falco, either.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Or Yoshi
10forcepalms
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
I'd like to contribute for the character match-ups for Lucas and Ness...
For Ness and Lucas respectively, it's always important to remember that baby aura spheres are NOT a good idea. They can absorb them to regain health or bat them back at you, and in Ness's case, he can even PK fire them to create a wall of flame between you and him for spacing purposes. Don't go thinking that you can throw an aura sphere, have them absorb it, and then run in and punish while they put down their magnets, because both Ness and Lucas can jump, roll or spot dodge immediately after absorbing a projectile.
In Lucas's case, you need to play very carefully and spacing is extremely important. He can toss a ton of irritating projectiles at you from a distance (PK Fire, Freeze, Thunder etc.) with relative safety. No good Lucas will use PK Freeze directly at you from across the stage, and if they do, they'll usually hook it around to try to catch you running in to punish them. Rather than being tricky about it, you should just advance calmly and roll around. Don't be scared of PK Freeze, despite it's explosive appearance, it has a very small hitbox. He'll mostly use it to stop you from camping, although since you won't be using aura sphere much, the only time you can really expect to see it coming is after you've been hit by some other attack.
Lucas can combo you at low % with down throw to up tilt. His Nair is an incredible move, but has very short range. Simply put: do NOT allow Lucas to get in close to you. His jab beats EVERY move that you have. It come out in 1 frame. His other attacks are all ridiculously fast, and all of his smash attacks are potent KO moves with deceptive range. Having said that, your own tilts will trump his in terms of range and priority for the most part.
Lucas's aerials are all pretty good, but nothing Lucario can't handle. However, be very wary of Nair and Dair. Nair can auto-cancel and leads into some incredible follow-ups with almost limitless potential, wheras Dair can combo you for roughly 24% every time, and can be pillared for shield pressure, and even comboed into tilts at higher percents! To avoid being spiked and comboed with this attack, hold up on the control stick to DI out of the blasts as soon as the first hits connect. Lucas will use this from a full jump, most often out of a shield, so make good use of Lucario's good range. At 100% and up, Lucas can use this move to put you in a jab lock, which is almost instant death.
Next point: PK thunder. This move kills. It is incredibly dangerous, even just the bolt. However, you can attack the bolt with a well-timed aerial to kill it before it does any damage. Although even then, Lucario is very vulnerable to PK thunder due to the startup time of extremespeed.
Lucas's PSI Magnet is actually his 4th best KO move, so don't underestimate a Lucas who approaches with this move. It sends you down at an incredibly evil horizontal angle, totally limiting your recovery options and setting up for PK thunder gimping. Luckily, it has a rather small hitbox.
Lucas has a semi-slow shield grab, so if you're pressuring him with shorthopped Fair>Dair, then feel safe to add a Nair into the mix if he blocks it, because it will most likely hit him before he can grab you.
His up tilt is fast. It comes out in like 4 frames or something. Not quite as fast as Lucario's Dair, but still fast, and it has lots of range too. His Be wary when approaching from above.
Now then: Up smash...don't get hit by it. It destroys houses. Easier said than done, I assure you. The hitbox for Lucas's up smash is humongous. It almost reaches as far as his Fsmash horizontally, and has about the same range as Lucario's Fsmash vertically. You can't spot dodge it, and rolling around it is not recommended because it actually has something like 3 lingering hitboxes...it also stays out for a very long time vertically too, although the lingering hitbox is a lot weaker than the initial ones. If you do manage to double-team/block it effectively, then Lucas is open to punishment so take the opportunity to Ftilt or Fsmash him.
Lucas's recovery is in no way linear. He has PK thunder2, Zap jumping, Magnet pull and tether recovery to help him get back on the stage. Try to chase him off as soon as you can if you intend to edgeguard him, but a good Lucas will usually make it back on without much problem.
Blind spots: lucas has some of them. He doesn't have any fast, powerful attack that can hit behind him, so side dodging to get behind him is effective, so long as you don't overdo it and run right into his up smash or PK thunder.
I'll do Ness later.
I'll do Ness later.
For Ness and Lucas respectively, it's always important to remember that baby aura spheres are NOT a good idea. They can absorb them to regain health or bat them back at you, and in Ness's case, he can even PK fire them to create a wall of flame between you and him for spacing purposes. Don't go thinking that you can throw an aura sphere, have them absorb it, and then run in and punish while they put down their magnets, because both Ness and Lucas can jump, roll or spot dodge immediately after absorbing a projectile.
In Lucas's case, you need to play very carefully and spacing is extremely important. He can toss a ton of irritating projectiles at you from a distance (PK Fire, Freeze, Thunder etc.) with relative safety. No good Lucas will use PK Freeze directly at you from across the stage, and if they do, they'll usually hook it around to try to catch you running in to punish them. Rather than being tricky about it, you should just advance calmly and roll around. Don't be scared of PK Freeze, despite it's explosive appearance, it has a very small hitbox. He'll mostly use it to stop you from camping, although since you won't be using aura sphere much, the only time you can really expect to see it coming is after you've been hit by some other attack.
Lucas can combo you at low % with down throw to up tilt. His Nair is an incredible move, but has very short range. Simply put: do NOT allow Lucas to get in close to you. His jab beats EVERY move that you have. It come out in 1 frame. His other attacks are all ridiculously fast, and all of his smash attacks are potent KO moves with deceptive range. Having said that, your own tilts will trump his in terms of range and priority for the most part.
Lucas's aerials are all pretty good, but nothing Lucario can't handle. However, be very wary of Nair and Dair. Nair can auto-cancel and leads into some incredible follow-ups with almost limitless potential, wheras Dair can combo you for roughly 24% every time, and can be pillared for shield pressure, and even comboed into tilts at higher percents! To avoid being spiked and comboed with this attack, hold up on the control stick to DI out of the blasts as soon as the first hits connect. Lucas will use this from a full jump, most often out of a shield, so make good use of Lucario's good range. At 100% and up, Lucas can use this move to put you in a jab lock, which is almost instant death.
Next point: PK thunder. This move kills. It is incredibly dangerous, even just the bolt. However, you can attack the bolt with a well-timed aerial to kill it before it does any damage. Although even then, Lucario is very vulnerable to PK thunder due to the startup time of extremespeed.
Lucas's PSI Magnet is actually his 4th best KO move, so don't underestimate a Lucas who approaches with this move. It sends you down at an incredibly evil horizontal angle, totally limiting your recovery options and setting up for PK thunder gimping. Luckily, it has a rather small hitbox.
Lucas has a semi-slow shield grab, so if you're pressuring him with shorthopped Fair>Dair, then feel safe to add a Nair into the mix if he blocks it, because it will most likely hit him before he can grab you.
His up tilt is fast. It comes out in like 4 frames or something. Not quite as fast as Lucario's Dair, but still fast, and it has lots of range too. His Be wary when approaching from above.
Now then: Up smash...don't get hit by it. It destroys houses. Easier said than done, I assure you. The hitbox for Lucas's up smash is humongous. It almost reaches as far as his Fsmash horizontally, and has about the same range as Lucario's Fsmash vertically. You can't spot dodge it, and rolling around it is not recommended because it actually has something like 3 lingering hitboxes...it also stays out for a very long time vertically too, although the lingering hitbox is a lot weaker than the initial ones. If you do manage to double-team/block it effectively, then Lucas is open to punishment so take the opportunity to Ftilt or Fsmash him.
Lucas's recovery is in no way linear. He has PK thunder2, Zap jumping, Magnet pull and tether recovery to help him get back on the stage. Try to chase him off as soon as you can if you intend to edgeguard him, but a good Lucas will usually make it back on without much problem.
Blind spots: lucas has some of them. He doesn't have any fast, powerful attack that can hit behind him, so side dodging to get behind him is effective, so long as you don't overdo it and run right into his up smash or PK thunder.
I'll do Ness later.
I'll do Ness later.
I was actually gonna say when I did Ness/Lucas that it was okay to Baby Aura Sphere them until like 20% or so. Cause if they absorb it, so what? Nothing major happened. when the percent rises however, one should charge up a sphere and save it for when it will connect.
NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
Oh yep, that's true I suppose.
But remember that if you're just using aura sphere for spacing, Lucas can always just bat them back at you. Ness is a bit different because his bat is so slow.
Browny
Smash Hater
ok i should have elaborated more.
lucario can be CG'd by dedede, just like almost every other character can, theres no escape.
you can spot dodge, force palm, jump, pull the controller out in frustration it wont help avoiding it if dedede does it perfectly.
if dedede DOESNT do it perfectly, he can be FP grabbed right out of it. but good luck finsing a good dedede user who cant do it properly
and yes lucario cant be CG'd by falco, atleast to any meaningful %
lucario can be CG'd by dedede, just like almost every other character can, theres no escape.
you can spot dodge, force palm, jump, pull the controller out in frustration it wont help avoiding it if dedede does it perfectly.
if dedede DOESNT do it perfectly, he can be FP grabbed right out of it. but good luck finsing a good dedede user who cant do it properly
and yes lucario cant be CG'd by falco, atleast to any meaningful %
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Hint: quick reply negates signatures.
Nodrak
Smash Ace
Yeah I never really broke the habit of quick replies, and completely forgot that they stop signatures ... even though that post (and this one) wont have signatures =S
SpazzerEXE
Smash Apprentice
Nothing on Snake yet? I thought we had that match down?
Or is Milln just gettin' lazy? D:
Or is Milln just gettin' lazy? D: