The Best Players (Post Apex 2012)

[ihatejuice69]

So yeah, this again.

Btw, I should say this is just my (1 guy's) list, and I don't entirely know what I'm talking about.

1/2. Armada/Mango. Many people will jump to say that Armada has won 2 in a row therefore he is the clear #1, but I don't think anybody can honestly say that Mango was on top of his game during Apex. Armada may be better, but there's no way he's 3-0 better. More evidence is needed. It would be nice to be able to say that we can purely go by results to see who the best is, but lets face it we all play better or worse on certain days, and when you're as good as these guys, a little bit of difference can be huge (probably, what do I know).

3. Hungrybox. There are very few people who have actually been able to beat Hungrybox, let alone place above him. No matter what you say about his style, he has consistently placed near/at the top of major tournaments, and has shown that he can beat the best. The only hurdle he hasn't been able to jump though is Armada's YL, and until he can do that he can't be #1.

4/5/6. PP/Javi/M2K. More evidence is needed before we can immediately say that Javi>PP. PP had a huge burst of improvement a while ago, but has since performed below expectations (which to be fair are pretty high). Javi is kind of a wild card, simply because this was his first time playing in a big tournament. For all we know he's the best in the world, or for all we know he just had a good run this time. Again more evidence is needed. Edit: So apparently M2K is pretty good.

The rest is really up for grabs imo. Nobody A few players have broken in, but nobody has really shown themselves to be convincingly better than the others outside of these guys.

Players like Kirbykaze, Hax, Jman, Shroomed, MacD, Zhu, Amsah, and Wobbles come to mind (and I could go on), but I'm not really good enough to judge who is better between these guys.

Upon further consideration, I'm changing my list to
1. Armada
2. Mango
3/4/5. Hbox, PP, M2K (no particular order)

Undecided on Javi


NOPE, **** IT, ignore the yellow blurb above. 1/2. Armada or Mango. Get at me.

 

[Max?]

I knew a thread like this would be made sooner or later.

Hold on, I'm gonna grab some popcorn for the **** show that's about to ensue

 

[ajp_anton]

If Mango can't be at his top at a tournament, then he's not the best.
He might be the best at certain things. He might even have the best top-level play. But if he can't be at that top level consistently enough to win, he's not the best overall.

 

[Jonas]

Idk HBox beat Mango pretty convincingly. Whether or not Mango is on top of his game, this was totally different from past tournaments where he would consistently body HBox. It's also evident from GFs that HBox has improved a lot since G2.

Armada is another story. He's just gdlk at this game and seems to improve all the time.

And why has "more evidence is needed" become the mantra of all Mango fanboys? How much evidence is enough?

Also Ajp speaks the truth. Listen to him, for he is wise.

 

[Twinkles]

Yeah, there's gonna be a shtstorm brewing.

I'll just say that it's not fair to keep Mango on the same level as Armada. I and many other people don't care that Mango was "not playing on point" because you could make the same argument for any other time Armada lost in a tournament. We'll question Armada's dominance AFTER Mango (or anyone else for that matter )gives us reason to. Until then, Armada should, without a doubt, be considered #1 in the world. Anything else is just downright disrespectful to a player who WORKED to get where he is now (Armada practicing every day and Mango not playing since RoM4, I want to know who you think deserved to win lol).

(This is coming from a Mango fanboy who wants to see him win again).

 

[Veetaak]

It depends on how much you value consitsency compared to how much you value peak-skill.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Hax is the best, M2K is a close 2nd.

 

[Sinji]

People need to stop johning for mango. He was sandbagging in pound V and apex 2010. His inconsistency would haunt him in the future..... and it did.

Honestly their is no best player right now.

Hbox ***** mango.
Armada cant beat Hbox with his main.

Your right about Javi being a wild card though. He doesn't know the puff match up but he knows the peach match up really well. I wanted to see Javi vs Armada....

I guess Europe's best slipped away

 

[The Star King]

LOL and here I was impressed that this thread hasn't been made yet like it is after every international. But no, people can't ever resist talking about this for some god-forsaken reason.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Let's just not the fuel the fire....I need to also get popcorn.

 

[Bones0]

1. As far as I'm concerned, the lack of warm-ups voids any relevance of the results.
2. Mango hadn't played since RoM so of course he wasn't at the top of his game. If he doesn't care enough to practice, he won't beat top players who worked their ***** off.
3. M2K is a troll.
4. Armada having to use YL to beat Hbox is irrelevant. It doesn't make him any less of a player as long as it continues to land him tournament wins.

 

[Jonas]

It depends on how much you value consitsency compared to how much you value peak-skill.

What does this even mean? How do you know what Mango's "peak skill" is if he doesn't bother to show it in tournament?

 

[ajp_anton]

Armada cant beat Hbox with his main.

And HBox can't beat Armada's secondary / a low tier with his main. What's your point? Why does it matter who you win with? Suddenly Armada can't use more than one character, but Mango can?
Please also define "main". Armada uses both Peach and YLink in tournament.

 

[Jonas]

Damnit Ajp stop making so much sense all the time

 

[ajp_anton]

It depends on how much you value consitsency compared to how much you value peak-skill.

The fact that we have tournaments at all proves that we value consistency over peak. Especially in Europe where bo5 is used for most of the bracket and sometimes bo7 in finals.

Haha, imagine Armada vs HBox in a 2-set GF (plus winners final), all best-of-7 =).

 

[ihatejuice69]

If I recall correctly, Hbox was down 2-0 until he got help from a Brawl player about how to camp (or something, I dunno).

Once Armada figured that out though he quickly took the next set.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I hate that people ***** over Armada going Ylink, like if he went Peach all of a sudden everything would be so dam entertaining. I much rather watch Ylink vs Puff than Peach.
I wasn't a huge Mango ****rider, I do believe he was the best. But now I personally believe that Armada is right now the best. Consistency is everything. And if Mango doesn't care, then so be it.

 

[Veetaak]

The fact that we have tournaments at all proves that we value consistency over peak. Especially in Europe where bo5 is used for most of the bracket and sometimes bo7 in finals.

Haha, imagine Armada vs HBox in a 2-set GF (plus winners final), all best-of-7 =).

I thought tournaments are for people who want them $$$$

 

[Jonas]

If tournaments were only for people who win money, they wouldn't attracts hundreds of attendants.
Like, do you seriously think EVERYONE who signed up for APEX2012 thought they had a shot at #1?

 

[Veetaak]

We, the scrubs, are still in it just for smash

I wasn't being that serious though

But seeing top players like m2k ragequit like that makes me wonder ^.^

 

[Jonas]

And the cash prices are only there to create incentive for the best players to do their best

 

[ihatejuice69]

Armada may well be better than Mango, it's definitely possible, even probable.

Are we really going to judge that purely based on Genesis 2 and Apex though? Genesis 2 was SUPER close, and Mango clearly wasn't on his game at Apex (lost 3-0 to Armada, lost 3-1 to Hbox, which is uncharacteristic).

 

[Yung Mei]

I knew a thread like this would be made sooner or later.

Hold on, I'm gonna grab some popcorn for the **** show that's about to ensue

this this thisq

 

[ajp_anton]

Are we really going to judge that purely based on Genesis 2 and Apex though? Genesis 2 was SUPER close, and Mango clearly wasn't on his game at Apex (lost 3-0 to Armada, lost 3-1 to Hbox, which is uncharacteristic).

Americans did it purely based on Genesis (1). GF set 1 was SUPER close, and Armada clearly wasn't on his game in set 2 (lost 3-0, which is uncharacteristic).

 

[Sinji]

2. Mango hadn't played since RoM

Because of milk tea :D on facebook

 

[ihatejuice69]

Americans did it purely based on Genesis (1). GF set 1 was SUPER close, and Armada clearly wasn't on his game in set 2 (lost 3-0, which is uncharacteristic).

Well they were wrong to do so.

As I said, he's probably better, but if they were to have a $1000 MM today, could you say with confidence that Armada would win?

 

[Bones0]

How is it relevant whether or not Mango is "on his game?" Being on your game consistently is PART of the game. It's dumb that Armada practices his *** off and wins, but then it doesn't count because Mango didn't practice and could have/maybe/probably/kind of done better vs. him if he did.

1. Armada <--- 'nuff said

Until someone steps up and beats Armada in tourney, it doesn't really matter what else is happening outside of the game. It's all still johns.

 

[ihatejuice69]

If at the next tournament, Armada sandbags and loses to Mango, does that mean Mango is better?

Edit: I don't actually know if Mango sandbagged btw.

 

[Yung Mei]

also,
inb4poundslap

 

[ihatejuice69]

also,
inb4poundslap

I've been waiting for that guy.

 

[ajp_anton]

Edit: I don't actually know if Mango sandbagged btw.

The beauty of all this is we don't have to know. All we need to know is that he lost.

 

[SheerMadness]

Javi would have ***** the world back in like 2006. Go watch his 06 vids, he looks exactly the same. And his Twin (the falco) might have been better than Javi back then.

I don't think he's on Armada/Mangos level anymore though. And he was lost against hbox (like every other fox is that doesn't play again him or mango's jiggly on the regular).

 

[Blistering Speed]

1. Armada
2. Mango
3. Hungrybox/PeePee

I believe Mew2king deserves the fourth slot, but I don't have the evidence to put him above KK/Axe/Wobbles etc. level currently.

I can't honestly place Javi without seeing more of him.

You can all go back to being stupid now (ajp excluded).

 

[Mew2King]

this may sound cocky but i think overall as a player (to play all the characters in the game) I could be the best or 2nd with mango, but i can't stand practicing one character at all because i get way too bored. I spent more time on falco/peach/puff/random characters than i do with marth.

but as a tourney threat i suck because i am way too emo and underconfident. armada is no doubt the number 1 tourney threat. I'm not even threatening anymore, I'm just a stupid emo kid

javi's super good, but you're ******** to say im a clear 6 and put him above me just cuz he beat pp in his best MU. i beat him in the friendlies we had with my marth and sheik using my 2ndary controller =/. I respect him a lot and he's very good but the way you make your opinions is terrible

 

[Blistering Speed]

this may sound cocky but i think overall as a player (to play all the characters in the game) I could be the best or 2nd with mango

Then show us. Sincerely, I would love to see it.

 

[ihatejuice69]

The beauty of all this is we don't have to know. All we need to know is that he lost.

The fact that we don't know is why I say Armada is probably better.

If Mango says in his inevitable salty blogpost that he did his best, or something like that (which I doubt he would say), then I'll fully say that Armada is better.

Btw, fun fact, after Genesis 1 I thought that Armada was the best in the world, and that Mango only beat him because Jigglypuff is pretty good vs, peach (I main Peach). Mango's fox at G2 was what changed my mind to Armada only probably better.

 

[Mew2King]

idk when to use them in tournament i just do it for fun =/ In brawl i put ALL my efforts into 1 char but then after gen2 they banned him and i just didn't wanna play the game anymore

 

[Veetaak]

Stop being a nobhead and start maining Falco like everyone else

 

[Sinji]

And HBox can't beat Armada's secondary / a low tier with his main. What's your point? Why does it matter who you win with? Suddenly Armada can't use more than one character, but Mango can?
Please also define "main". Armada uses both Peach and YLink in tournament.

My point is that Armada doesn't want to learn the peach/puff match and depends on Ylink. He lost to Mango and Hbox puff if you remember correctly.

Lets look at Hax for example.

Sheik ***** Falcon yet Hax is determined to learn the match up. Then Hax beat Amsah at pound V so what are you saying. You dont see Hax picking up puff against sheik in tournaments simply because sheik ***** falcon and puff ***** sheik.

Hbox is getting one step closer to beating Armadas young link and when it happens Armada will search for another character instead of trying to learning the puff matchup with peach.

 

[ihatejuice69]

javi's super good, but you're ******** to say im a clear 6 and put him above me just cuz he beat pp in his best MU. i beat him in the friendlies we had with my marth and sheik using my 2ndary controller =/. I respect him a lot and he's very good but the way you make your opinions is terrible

I did not know this.

The only thing I had to go by was that he beat PP, and you lost to PP at Rom 4.

The fact that you don't play as much anymore is no excuse though. If you do play more and win (which I think you could) then yeah.

I'll edit my op though