The Bakery - Realised I can still edit the thread title!

[MetalMusicMan]

Yeah, please do explain, Larry. I've always found Olimar to have a slight advantage in that matchup. Most of the good Olimars I've talked to agree, except Fino.

I play Cook, a pretty solid Olimar about once a week, but I never feel like I'm ever "getting better" against him. It always feels uphill. The same for when I fight Hilt and Fino. My matches are always close, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't, but even when I win it feels like a struggle.

 

[swordsaint]

to put it simply

olimar has the gayest priority ever, most of his moves have such low priority, that if he tries to attack one of your moves, it just gets beaten every time. He has to attack between your moves for the most part.

his grab is often considered good, but it's actually quite terrible - no super armour means that if he tries to grab a lot of stuff, if you can a hit in during his grab (for instance if he tries to grab a shl) he'll lose his grab immediately.

chain grab spike = insta kill! =P

seriously though, short hopping like a motherfcuker on olimar never hurt anyone. if you can land with a silent laser almost consistently, there's like no need to even worry about his grabs.

but yeah it's mostly his priority that ruins olimar, the fact he can't recover, and the fact we 0-death him lol.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

All of the Olimars that I play pretty much instantly meteor cancel the CG > Spike and live every time :\

 

[swordsaint]

lol, I've never seen it tbh.

i really have no idea about the matchup

i dont find it particularly easy =P

and by meteor cancel do you mean tether cancel?

 

[BluB]

Larry posted a few videos against that rich brown olimar a few weeks ago.
From what I've seen double jab cancels pretty much destroy Olimar. He sometimes did like more than 20% with them. Also gimping olimar isn't that hard. If he's below the stage and can't get on with his 2nd jump you can just hang on the ledge without the worry of being stage spiked by his up-B.

E: Btw, dehf is currently in hawai and there's lots of new stuff of his falco.
http://www.youtube.com/user/darkmusician

 

[Marcbri]

jab and bair > olimar

 

[MetalMusicMan]

lol, I've never seen it tbh.

i really have no idea about the matchup

i dont find it particularly easy =P

and by meteor cancel do you mean tether cancel?

Yeah, instant tether grab the ledge. Either that or they jump cancel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-QxkZWq8VU#t=5m8s

afaik there isn't any way to actually 0-death him. I've heard something about a "sweetspot %" that makes it so he can't tether cancel, but I'm not sure what that % is or if it's even true.

jab and bair > olimar

Yeah, I jab cancel them and I IAP to put them in the air, and bair is awesome...


...but he can kill you at like 95%... they have the up-tilt clank with phantasm that combos into up-smash. If they don't get that, you still die at like 110%-120%, and Olimar can get you to that percent in no time at all with only a few reads.

 

[Dnyce]

and by meteor cancel do you mean tether cancel?

Both.

jab > olimar

*fixed*

//name search

 

[swordsaint]

Both.

*fixed*

//name search

meteor cancels would just get edgehogged

 

[MetalMusicMan]

They don't get edge hogged when up-b instant tethers to the ledge or the jump auto grabs it because it's in range or the tether gives them that little boots and they end up on stage anywa... :\

 

[swordsaint]

something is seriously wrong if they're jumping that soon...

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Well you can't really spike them "wrong" you either spike them or you don't. Again unless there's some truth to the "sweet spot %".

 

[Teh Future]

olimar is completely ******** and doesn't make sense. get used to it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

They don't get edge hogged when up-b instant tethers to the ledge or the jump auto grabs it because it's in range or the tether gives them that little boots and they end up on stage anywa... :\

something is seriously wrong if they're jumping that soon...

Not really. It is as M3 said. The pikmin auto-snap the ledge as soon as UpB is used, and the motion is pretty instantaneous from the time it is activated. Most characters get edgehogged because they take time in using UpB. When the attack is pretty instantaneous, then that gives Falco less time to get there. So, it is possible for Olimar to recover if you cannot get there quick enough.

 

[swordsaint]

xeylode, you failed to realise the thing i called wrong isn't the tether snap. I can understand that, it's if he can cancel the spike that soon with merely a jump to grab the ledge.

 

[Dnyce]

Unless there's a sweetspot for the dair, olimar can meteor cancel and uair falco (if it was a low% CG to spike) before the cooldown on dair ends. MMM can tell you, and like I said - unless there's a sweet spot on it? That's what larry told me at Orlando, but back then I was almost always trying to tether meteor cancel.

 

[BSP]

Hey guys, the Luigi boards are more or less discussing Falco in our MU thread. Any contribution would be appreciated.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure its impossible to 0-death Olimar from a CG. The CG is hardly even useful against him to begin with since you can't grab him that many times either.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure its impossible to 0-death Olimar from a CG. The CG is hardly even useful against him to begin with since you can't grab him that many times either.

CG is overrated these days.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

CG is overrated these days.

Oh my god yes, so much. It's great, and a serious threat, but it's not an instakill or anything other than some nice damage. If anyone is getting 0-deathed by Falco as almost any character, they probably don't know what they are doing.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Oh my god yes, so much. It's great, and a serious threat, but it's not an instakill or anything other than some nice damage. If anyone is getting 0-deathed by Falco as almost any character, they probably don't know what they are doing.

2/3s of the cast are unaffected by the CG-Spike anyway without having to tech/SDI. Most can either recover after taking the spike, or can escape from form the CG in some way.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Yep. You're sextacular.

 

[swordsaint]

2/3's of the cast are unnaffected, some still are. And you can chain grab Olimar more times than you guys seem to think, he's not that hard.

Fox and Wolf are two characters that are 0deathed by it, Olimars recovery is worse, I don't understand why he wouldn't =/

he clearly breaks the game if he can jump cancel the dair spike quick enough to not get edgehogged.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Fox falls too fast to be spiked after the CG, unless you're talking about that weird non-fastfall delayed d-air thing.

Also, Swordsaint, I thought you said you didn't know anything about the Olimar matchup anyway? Now you *know* he can be CG'd many times? :\

 

[swordsaint]

Fox falls too fast to be spiked after the CG, unless you're talking about that weird non-fastfall delayed d-air thing.

You're hella outdated if you didn't know fox is 0-deathed. =/

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I use DeDeDe against Fox.

Anyway, Falco still can't CG > Spike him if he DI's away, though. He falls too fast.

So, are you talking about the non fastfall dair setup, or what? Because I am admittedly not informed on that; I remember reading about it a while back but no specifics.

 

[BluB]

Falco can cg spike Fox and you can't DI the down throw, else every character would be able to break free out of the cg at low percents...
The cg spike has to be done frame perfect iirc but it's not that hard after you get the hang of it.

 

[M@v]

Sword, fox can't be 0 deathed even if they cg spike. If the fox dies from it they are doing it wrong,

When fox gets daired, he should meteor cancel with rising fair, then upb, giving him plenty of height to get back.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Sword, fox can't be 0 deathed even if they cg spike. If the fox dies from it they are doing it wrong,

When fox gets daired, he should meteor cancel with rising fair, then upb, giving him plenty of height to get back.

Has anyone experimented with alternative methods to some characters instead of the spike off ledge? I have thought of forcing a ground release on a few fast falling characters like fox, wolf, shiek or really long animations like Ness and Lucas. If I recall from what I did, if you bring fox to the same spot you CG-spike people into the water on JJ, he will die from a ground release. This is due to the falling speed of fox prevents him from jumping before he hits the water. After that, it is merely a matter of forcing fox to never regrab the ledge and he should die. Best alternative to spiking fox I could find, but only works on JJ.

2/3s of the cast are unaffected by the CG-Spike anyway without having to tech/SDI. Most can either recover after taking the spike, or can escape from form the CG in some way.

Yep. You're sextacular.

My bad. I forgot to finish off that post since I was typing two posts at the same time. I was going to finish off by commenting on how odd it is that so many people seem to think that some match-ups are dependent upon the CG.

Fox, Wolf, or MK typically sees arguments that it is only in Falco's favor if he manages to get the CG. But since so many people live through it or avoid it, all it really comes to is a means to get some quick damage. However, Falco's main strength is being able to rack up a lot of damage. Whether or not he gets the CG really doesn't matter as he can easily make up that damage with his other moves. So, it just seems the CG is really unneeded in the end. I know it's nice though to get the extra damage in an easy fashion. Early lead can be useful. But still...

 

[Silhouette]

Your guys social is tough to find.. a bakery, wtf? lol

School is in Session, Cincinnati OH 60+ entrants.

Live Stream

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Muahahahahahahaaaaa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtE1RYxi4tI

 

[swordsaint]

thats a pretty epic tech their metal

and it was a tourney match that saved your ***!

I think im in love

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Everyone pooped their pants when it happened. Clove is really awesome, it was an intense match. Best tech of my life, haha. ^_^

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

That reminded me of this tech between 1:20-1:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbWWruY5Bqw&feature=related

 

[BluB]

Would be cool if you directly spiked that samus after the tech :b
But still nice one.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Would be cool if you directly spiked that samus after the tech :b
But still nice one.

Oh man, I've always wanted to do that, it's so risky though

 

[M@v]

Gr really doesn't work either. If anyone needa help with falco vs fox I know how to play the mu from both sides, since fox is my old main. I feel its 55:45 falco, primarily because he can get an early lead with the cg, and can follow it up more effectively due to fox's fast fall.

 

[swordsaint]

I feel like I need some help with Fox. I have literally 0 experience with that matchup, and a player in my region has recently started using Fox as a serious secondary to Snake. Wouldn't be surprised if he whipped his Fox out on me.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Gr really doesn't work either. If anyone needa help with falco vs fox I know how to play the mu from both sides, since fox is my old main. I feel its 55:45 falco, primarily because he can get an early lead with the cg, and can follow it up more effectively due to fox's fast fall.

How would you say the method is to deal with fox overall? I have heard various methods.

@swordsaint: How does fox vs snake relate to fox vs falco o.0?

 

[swordsaint]

How would you say the method is to deal with fox overall? I have heard various methods.

@swordsaint: How does fox vs snake relate to fox vs falco o.0?

re-read my post lol.

A Snake mains picked up Fox as a secondary to his Snake. I have trouble with both matchups still, but beat his Snake everytime, despite being close games. I've played his fox once or twice before and got ***** from not knowing wtf I'm doing.