The B.C. Brawl Power Ranking [Updated Ranking! Winter 2012-2013 Season (MK Legal)]

[breez]

Guys, PR doesn't exactly reflect exact skill, or anything like that. The PR is merely a representation of how players preform in a tournament setting. Saying "blah blah I can beat this person and that person" doesn't mean anything if it's only in friendlies.

If we did it any other way personal bias would come into effect.

For instance, I strongly believe that ASA could and should be on the power ranking. He is good enough to be on, and he shows me in friendlies that he is a really solid player all the time. For some reason he is unable to preform in tournaments, therefore, no matter how good I think he actually is, he is not on the PR.

I hope this clears things up. And to deap, and everyone else that isn't happy, if you can "beat everyone", simply go and do it at a tournament, and it will be reflected in the PR.

We look at the placements pretty closely and we have the hard data to back up our decisions.

 

[~Firefly~]

Oh, fiddlesticks.

I forgot to post the link to the Phoenix 2 thread here. =0

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269634

gogogo

 

[Asa]

I can't get it up


in tournaments

 

[Ic0nic]

lols at people caring about a PR with pretty much 1 tournament worth of results.

 

[Clouderz]

lols at people caring about a PR with pretty much 1 tournament worth of results.

this
10this

 

[Dynamism?]

Guys, PR doesn't exactly reflect exact skill, or anything like that. The PR is merely a representation of how players preform in a tournament setting.

lols at people caring about a PR with pretty much 1 tournament worth of results.

Yep, you're doing it wrong. LOL

 

[~Firefly~]

v.v Looks like I've got a bit of clarification to do...

I believe what breez was trying to say is that we don't care who beats who in friendlies or, to a lesser extent, money matches. Some people (especially Deap, lol) play a lot of money matches, and tend to beat people in MMs that outperform them in tournament, and as such, they feel they should be ranked higher on the PR with inferior results. A lot of MMs take place around here, and because those results are so sporadic, it's very difficult to come to a solid conclusion of who's better than who overall from MMs, especially since we don't record the results of every MM that takes place. >.< We don't want to rank people based on MMs, because there's no way of knowing if we're missing one side of the story. We are trying to rank the skill of the players in BC, but we're doing so on the basis that tournament results are the best indicator of skill.

By "pretty much 1 tournament worth of results", Ic0nic really means "just 1 large tournament worth of results". There have been multiple other tournaments since the last update that weren't Phoenix Brawl; i.e. Jack's Tri-Smash tourney and the last Overture. And those were just mainland tourneys. The islanders play on a somewhat regular basis, and some of the ranking (5-7) was decided based on input from Blue Yoshi regarding the ranking amongst the islanders. We use smaller tournaments to solidify what the rankings should look like within each group, with the most recent large tourney (in this case, Phoenix) to compare the mainlanders vs. the islanders.

 

[breez]

lols at people caring about a PR with pretty much 1 tournament worth of results.

Yep, you're doing it wrong. LOL

Yeeeah actually we've had probably close to 10 tournaments. Sure, not all of them were very big or as awesome, but they definitely told us something.

I believe, and I think the other guys do as well, that this PR is a pretty good reflection of peoples skill level versus one another currently. The PR wasn't just made up on a whim, but at the same time it's not completely comprehensive. We have months of data from some players, with not at much from others.

Dyna instead of complaining would you mind lending a hand perhaps?

 

[Alphicans]

So what are you guys factoring more: tournament placing, or who they beat in tournament? I make sure that on my PR, who a person beat is way more important then the actual placement. Also, pools do matter. I hope you guys are going all of that :\.

 

[bundtcake]

So what are you guys factoring more: tournament placing, or who they beat in tournament? I make sure that on my PR, who a person beat is way more important then the actual placement. Also, pools do matter. I hope you guys are going all of that :\.

Yes, we're taking into consideration who people beat in tournaments... And our pool matches were only best of 1 on neutral stages, so they aren't that great for PR deciding...

 

[~Firefly~]

So what are you guys factoring more: tournament placing, or who they beat in tournament? I make sure that on my PR, who a person beat is way more important then the actual placement. Also, pools do matter. I hope you guys are going all of that :\.

Of course we are. =S I always have the brackets opened in front of me when we discuss PR placings. Part of the reason Deap is on the list, for example, is the fact that he beat Blue Yoshi in the Phoenix bracket, who was 6th on the previous PR and a 1st seed after pools. Deap only placed 13th, but that victory helped his case when we came up with the list (his 4th place at Jack's Tri-Smash helped as well, but a good number of the PR potentials weren't there, so it wasn't as important). Conversely, Ewic placed 7th at Phoenix, but the people he lost to in the bracket are ranked 1st and 3rd now (Clouderz and breez), so we didn't just say "oh, he only placed 7th"; we gave him more credit for how he did based on that.

Also, we are taking pools into conseration, but since the pools are always one match (as they are in AB as well, I know), a lot of silly things happen that create sometimes strange results. For various reasons, neither myself, breez, nor bundtcake got 1st seeds at Phoenix, even though the three of us (along with Clouderz now) make up a rigid top 4 at tourneys. Blunted_Object10 and Blue Yoshi both got 1st seeds, but they didn't get any real significant victories in the bracket and placed 9th, so that put them lower than people with lower seeds that shined in the bracket (see: Karupin). However, Defender's 1st seed helped him to secure 5th on the PR, as well as his victory over breez in winner's.

tl;dr: A bunch of examples showing that we did consider that stuff.

 

[smash mash]

well...i dont know to much about this whole pr business but it seems to me as if your trying too much to get islanders on the pr even if mainlanders can beat them...i would think that if thats the case then make 2 seperate pr's cause then a total B.C pr doesnt make sense when there are other player's who can beat the supposed top players...im not saying i should be on it i really dont care as much, but i dont know.,.something just doesnt seem right...why not also start making stats..and base future pr's off of that?? sure sometimes player try there best on tourneys but truth is there are players who also dont play as well in tourneys cause they get nervous or something....i dunno..but i honestly dont think that it should all be based mainly by tournaments...as far as im concerned melee pr isnt just based off of them either....or am i mistaken eric??

 

[Alphicans]

Tournament sets deal with counter-picks psychology dupes and nerves. They test the skill of a player far more then friendlies. If you get nervous and suck at tournaments, then you suck. Sorry dude.

 

[~Firefly~]

well...i dont know to much about this whole pr business but it seems to me as if your trying too much to get islanders on the pr even if mainlanders can beat them...

This couldn't be further from the truth. Defender, Ewic, and Karupin each beat at least one of the trio of myself, bundtcake, and breez, and they only got knocked out of the bracket by the top 4 players (Defender to Clouderz and me, Ewic to Clouderz and breez, Karupin to bundt and breez).

i would think that if thats the case then make 2 seperate pr's cause then a total B.C pr doesnt make sense when there are other player's who can beat the supposed top players...im not saying i should be on it i really dont care as much, but i dont know.,.something just doesnt seem right...

Brawl is very match-up dependant, and "upsets" happen all the time. Things like character match-ups factor in to who beats who, and some people simply do poorly against specific players for arbitrary reasons. There will NEVER be a PR where every player will always beat everybody below them and lose to everybody above them; there are just too many variables.

why not also start making stats..and base future pr's off of that?? sure sometimes player try there best on tourneys but truth is there are players who also dont play as well in tourneys cause they get nervous or something....i dunno..but i honestly dont think that it should all be based mainly by tournaments...as far as im concerned melee pr isnt just based off of them either....or am i mistaken eric??

Poor performance due to nerves is the player's fault. If they can't do well when it matters, why should they be ranked higher than those that do? Stats can theoretically help, but they're very rigid, and can create unrealistic results. For example, I heard Clouderz isn't going to Overture 6, so if bundtcake wins and gains a bunch of points, that could give him the statistical boost needed to put him above Clouderz, even though Clouderz consistantly comes out on top. If you're talking about taking stats from friendlies/MMs...people don't play in those types of matches to win all the time. Brian almost always uses secondaries, and I'm constantly playing around with Yoshi's DR to become more comfortable with using it during matches. And yes, this kind of thing happens in MMs too...

From what I've seen of Melee PR discussions (which is actually quite a bit; I lurk a lot there), they certainly do look at tournaments, but of course, it isn't the only aspect they take into consideration. I don't have any specific examples off the top of my head, but some people are ranked a bit lower because they don't do too well in tournament.

 

[Dynamism?]

A lot of your examples contracted each other in that post but it really doesn't matter.

You have your reasons.

As long as it's 100% is based of how good people usually are/can be/overall, than reasons don't matter.

I've beaten players better than me, in tourney, friendlies, crews, everything. Players worse than me have beaten me just the same. That doesn't make me better or worse.

Placings = 15% of 'how good you are'

The other % is everything else, match ups, consistancy, how well you do usually against usual people, whatever you want.

 

[breez]

Just chiming in to agree with everything Jake has said.

Also, there was no "stretching" of the PR to get islanders on it. The people that are there, are there because they deserve it. No other reason.

 

[smash mash]

ANYWAYS changing the subject so i heard brian was gonna host a tourney this weekend?? if he does then i will go...but i wont go to that other ubc tourney/// btw ben WTF u have been missing out on PHO'S!! lol

 

[Blunted_object10]

ANYWAYS changing the subject so i heard brian was gonna host a tourney this weekend?? if he does then i will go...but i wont go to that other ubc tourney/// btw ben WTF u have been missing out on PHO'S!! lol

Yea if he does I will go if he doesn't I won't go... I don't wanna pay $15 entry fee for a 6 player tournament lol..

 

[SpaceFalcon]

its the brawl pr guys lol settle down now.

 

[Dynamism?]

Falcon Pawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blunted_object10]

its The Brawl Pr Guys Lol Settle Down Now.

Gr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bundtcake]

its The Brawl Pr Guys Lol Settle Down Now.

and HOW ****ing dare ANYONE OUT THERE make fun of brawl

AFTER ALL IT'S BEEN THROUGH ;_;

 

[Blue Yoshi]

and HOW ****ing dare ANYONE OUT THERE make fun of brawl

AFTER ALL IT'S BEEN THROUGH ;_;

Brawl sucks. 64 is better.

 

[~Firefly~]

64 sucks. 65 is better.

 

[Karupin]

Brawl sucks. 64 is better.

64 sucks. 65 is better.

pfft its all about Super Tier Bros Armageddon.
Triangle.

 

[ikool]

64 sucks. 65 is better.

65 sucks. TvC is where it's at.

 

[Karupin]

Triangle..

 

[~Firefly~]

Geometric bump...!

 

[Blunted_object10]

This thread needs more trashtalk...

ummm lets trash talk.... Clouderz! Cause I hear he's gonna choke next tourney!

 

[Clouderz]

This thread needs more trashtalk...

ummm lets trash talk.... Clouderz! Cause I hear he's gonna choke next tourney!

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

lol
uh
__________sucks

 

[~Firefly~]

Hear that, everybody? He's scurred. Get him!

 

[TheCresent]

yo KillLock here.

any of you B.C guys play wifi? if so hit me up on aib or sum **** and we can get something going sometime lol(been playing wifi recently, account is KillLock obviously).


dooooo ittt

 

[Grimice]

im not complaining, ill prove myself next week that i deserve a spot but how does deap take a spot over me? i tied blue yoshi for 9th, and i beat bundtcake in pools... i did overall better in tourney then deap yet he got a spot over me? and i also beat bundtcake who at the time was #1 on the PR in my pools....just curious since you said you accounted for how pools went. and if u took into account of the victoria tourneys for placings im 2-0 in tourney matches against karupin... just saying maybe some more homework couldove been done. But on the other hand like i said above im not complaining just asking questions. eitherway im excited for the next tourney im much more prepared and i wont be dropping grabs so be ready.

 

[smash mash]

im not complaining, ill prove myself next week that i deserve a spot but how does deap take a spot over me? i tied blue yoshi for 9th, and i beat bundtcake in pools... i did overall better in tourney then deap yet he got a spot over me? and i also beat bundtcake who at the time was #1 on the PR in my pools....just curious since you said you accounted for how pools went. and if u took into account of the victoria tourneys for placings im 2-0 in tourney matches against karupin... just saying maybe some more homework couldove been done. But on the other hand like i said above im not complaining just asking questions. eitherway im excited for the next tourney im much more prepared and i wont be dropping grabs so be ready.

lol...meh pr isnt really a big deal anyways, i also beat breez and deap in pools...but whatever...game is just fun to play and meet knew people :D
btw i promise i will place much better this tourney...at least 5th hopefully...

 

[~Firefly~]

i tied blue yoshi for 9th,

And Deap.

i did overall better in tourney then deap yet he got a spot over me?

He placed the same as you did, and unlike you, he beat a PR ranked player (Blue Yoshi) in bracket. Though you did have a fairly tough bracket (knocked out by me and breez and got only 9th), you didn't beat any PR contenders in the bracket. Sets of 3 >> single matches. Speaking of which...

and i beat bundtcake in pools... i did overall better in tourney then deap yet he got a spot over me?

You also lost to Asa and Sydney, neither of whom are on the PR, and one of whom does not have the experience to be a threat to any of the top players in BC. Consistancy is very important...

and if u took into account of the victoria tourneys for placings im 2-0 in tourney matches against karupin... just saying maybe some more homework couldove been done.

Beating 1 person twice does not auto-qualify you for the PR, especially with your hot-and-cold pools results and lack of important bracket victories. Comparatively, Deap has beaten most of the mainlanders in tournament, so it's not like he's some random player who won a set. Hopefully, you can prove this weekend that the first Phoenix truly was just a bad day for you. :embarrass

 

[Grimice]

And Deap.



He placed the same as you did, and unlike you, he beat a PR ranked player (Blue Yoshi) in bracket. Though you did have a fairly tough bracket (knocked out by me and breez and got only 9th), you didn't beat any PR contenders in the bracket. Sets of 3 >> single matches. Speaking of which...



You also lost to Asa and Sydney, neither of whom are on the PR, and one of whom does not have the experience to be a threat to any of the top players in BC. Consistancy is very important...



Beating 1 person twice does not auto-qualify you for the PR, especially with your hot-and-cold pools results and lack of important bracket victories. Comparatively, Deap has beaten most of the mainlanders in tournament, so it's not like he's some random player who won a set. Hopefully, you can prove this weekend that the first Phoenix truly was just a bad day for you. :embarrass

ok thanks, i wasnt complaining, was just asking questions to find out how things work. thansk for letting me see how things work. and yes my performance this weekend should be much better since i actually got time to practise properly and get my Cg's back to grab = death

 

[~Firefly~]

No problem. I like answering people's concerns about the PR; it makes me feel more accountable, and gives us more perspective on how people stand against each other.

P.S. - Guys, get @ KillL0ck please. His Marth is pretty good.

 

[HNG]

yo KillLock here.

any of you B.C guys play wifi? if so hit me up on aib or sum **** and we can get something going sometime lol(been playing wifi recently, account is KillLock obviously).


dooooo ittt

I play tons of wi-fi...Gimme a PM here or something.

 

[Ic0nic]

No problem. I like answering people's concerns about the PR; it makes me feel more accountable, and gives us more perspective on how people stand against each other.

P.S. - Guys, get @ KillL0ck please. His Marth is pretty good.

Marth is evil D:

 

[Karupin]

bump for active thread
Triangle.