Social The Adorable Assistant of ACNL: Isabelle Discussion Thread

Krysco

Aeon Hero
Premium
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,968
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2122-7731-1180
NNID
Krysco
In a phone call and bored so I decided to check all 9 pages of the tournament results thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/ssbu-tournament-results.464865/
Here's what I got:
Xanzy's Dream Land (90 entrants) (DFW, Texas)
5. Gyo :ultisabelle::ultrob: || :ultmegaman:
NEW GAME PLUS: The ULTIMATE Overnight Experience (196 entrants) (Illinois)
4. Panda Bair :ultvillager::ultisabelle:
Level Up Ultimate (80 entrants) (Minnesota)
7. Visitor :ultisabelle::ultkrool:
Ignition #161 (132 entrants) (Illinois) [Weekly]
2. Panda Bair :ultisabelle: :ultvillager:
Toryumon Kiwami 1 (32 Entrants) (Japan)
3rd: Kept :ultvillager: :ultisabelle:
Reflex Ultimate Bash (25 entrants) (Nebraska)
4. Bort :ultisabelle::ultvillager:
Brutal Tournament: Grinch Edition (39 Entrants) (Chile)
2nd: Sekai Doggo :ultduckhunt: :ultisabelle: :ultlink: :ultlucina:
Ultimate Bonus Stage #1 (72 Entrants) (San Francisco, CA)
4 - BaNdT :ultkrool: :ultisabelle:
Midwest Mayhem Ultimate (385 entrants) (Melrose Park, IL)
5th: Panda BAIR :ultvillager::ultisabelle:
25. Salad :ultisabelle:
Smashfield 169 (147 entrants) (Michigan)
7. Nom :ultisabelle::ultroy:
Ultimatum 1 (385 entrants) (Texas)
17. Animated Mel :ultisabelle:
Vivaldi Winter (93 entrants) (Norway)
7. Voff3 :ultisabelle:
Game-Inn SSBU Tournament (60 entrants) (Belgium)
1. Teminian :ultvillager::ultdarksamus::ultisabelle:
Ignition163 (128 Entrants)
5 - Panda Bair :ultisabelle: :ultvillager:
Sink or Swim 115 (Tempe, AZ) (111 Entrants)
7 - Shiny :ultisabelle:
Roadside Smash Ultimate Singles 1 (Seattle, WA) (31 Entrants)
2 Pokepen :ultmetaknight: :ultisabelle: :ultdaisy:
Orbitar 62 (Seattle, WA) (134 Entrants)
2 - Isabelle Pokepen :ultinkling: :ultdaisy: :ultisabelle:
Smashfield 170 @ The Raddison (Farmington Hills, MI) (126 Entrants)
5 - Nom :ultdiddy: :ultisabelle: :ultroy:
Holiday Heist 4 December 29th, 2018 227 entrants
9th. Komota - :ultkirby::ultisabelle:
UltiMelt #3 (65 entrants) (Switzerland)
5. Dylseat :ultroy::ultisabelle:
Sumabato SP 1 (306 entrants) (Japan)
17. kept :ultvillager::ultisabelle:
Valhalla II (238 entrants) (Denmark)
13. SirShyGuy :ultpikachu::ultisabelle:
Smashfield 171 (Farmington Hills, MI) (134 Entrants)
Nom :ultisabelle: :ultroy: :ultdiddy:
Umebura SP 2 (500 entrants) (Tokyo, Japan)
9. Tsu :ultlucario::ultken::ultisabelle:
Orbitar 63 (202 Entrants) (Washington)
1st: Pokepen :ultinkling::ultisabelle:
SmashxRamboot 2 (62 Entrants) (Spain)
3rd: Nessome :ultness: :ultisabelle:
The Grind Fridays 60 (Laurel, MD) (158 entrants)
13. Puppeh :ultpacman::ultisabelle:
Maroon Mayhem 1 (Starkville, MS) (70 Entrants)
1 MSU|Dj Soundwaves :ultpacman::ultisabelle::ultpokemontrainer::ultinkling:
AON Smash Ultimate #006 (Deer Park, NY) (108 Entrants)
3 Kofi :ultisabelle: :ultfalco:
Ascension 4 (151 entrants) (Arizona)
4. Shiny :ultisabelle:
Button Mash (122 entrants) (Quebec City)
2. SuperGirlKels :ultsonic: | :ultisabelle:
Glitch 6 (551 entrants) (Maryland)
49. Puppeh :ultlucina::ultisabelle:
Frosty Faustings XI (278 entrants) (Elmhurst, Illinois)
9. Panda Bair :ultvillager::ultisabelle:
Roadside Smash 6 (Tacoma, WA) 28 Entrants
1) Pokepen :ultisabelle::ultinkling:
Clemson Smash Series 19 (Clemson, SC) (107) Entrants
4 Gage :ultisabelle::ultdk:
Tecmi Smash Tournament] [32 entrants] [Monterrey, Nuevo León MEX]
4. Fenet :ultisabelle:
There's a couple repeating names like Panda Bair, Kept, Pokepen, Puppeh, Shiny and Nom. Could be some I may have missed since I initally missed Maroon Mayhem. Certainly not the most popular character to get high results and she seems to be a secondary for most of the ones listed or a main with secondaries helping. Most of these were from before 2.0.0 but that patch did so little for Isabelle that I don't feel the results should be ignored.
 

Krysco

Aeon Hero
Premium
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,968
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2122-7731-1180
NNID
Krysco
well it's better than K.Rool's results that's for sure
Not too sure on that. Here's all of K. Rool's noteworthy results:
(Bad Eddy's Smash Ultimate Launch Tournament) (13) (Oxford, MS)
1) 3Chainz - :ultkrool:
CN:B-AIRS 165 (70 Entrants) (New Jersey)
3rd: GwJ :ultmetaknight: :ultkrool:
SLGC Smash Ultimate Release Tournament (243 entrants) (Utah)
3. BBW :ultkrool: || :ultsimon:
Launch Event (94 Entrants) (British Columbia)
4th: Kantrip :ultkrool:
Level Up Ultimate (80 entrants) (Minnesota)
7. Visitor :ultisabelle::ultkrool:
Arkham's Smash Ultimate Launch (32 entrants) (Colombia)
1. Joker :ultkrool::ultvillager::ultridley:
Kick Rocks #4 (26 entrants) (Delaware)
4. Random Task :ultkrool:
Clutch 23 Ultimate Mayhem (51 Entrants) (Germany)
1st: Tomenimo :ultpalutena: :ultkrool:
Julesmash 2018 (51 entrants) (Norway)
7. Nanite :ultkrool::ultlink:
Don't Park on the Grass 2018 (581 Entrants) (Washington)
9th: KOSSismoss :ultkrool:
Couchwarriors Crossup Melbourne, Australia, Dec 15-16, 2018 154 Entrants
3. R!OT | Duon :ultinkling::ultkrool::ultdk:
Smash Out 2018 (357 entrants) (Missouri)
7. Cheesebear :ultkrool: || :ultlucina:
That's a Stock Ultimate (43 entrants) (New Jersey)
1. Spiro :ultlucina: | :ultkrool:
Ultimate Bonus Stage #1 (72 Entrants) (San Francisco, CA)
4 - BaNdT :ultkrool: :ultisabelle:
Back Throw Thursdays: Week 90 (101 Entrants) (Chicago?) (Weekly ft. OOR Talent)
7th: Tyroy :ultpichu::ultkrool:
Extra Life Cafe (Paris, France) (28 Entrants)
3 - Celky :ultkrool:
4 - Navylus :ultkrool:
Ignition163 (128 Entrants)
9 - Udi :ultpalutena: :ultkrool:
MoneyG Smash tournament #4 (Middletown, NY) (43 Entrants)
4 Rhino - :ultkrool:
EON#3 (Middletown, NY) (24 Entrants)
2 - Rhino - :ultkrool:
SoCal Chronicles (512 entrants) (SoCal)
17. Ito :ultkrool:
Orbitar 63 (202 Entrants) (Washington)
7th: KOSSismoss :ultgnw::ultkrool:
Couchwarriors QLD January Ranking Battle (43 entrants) (Queensland, Australia)
2. Mr. L :ultkrool:
Poi Poundaz 2 (111 Entrants) (Hawaii)
4th: WAR :ultkrool: :ultsnake:
Catedral 2019 (87 entrants) (Puebla, Mexico)
5. YoungBasedLord :ultkrool::ultwolf:
SmashDen (Engelwood, CO) (57 Entrants)
2) bloud :ultlucina: :ultkrool:
The Grind 59 Top 16:
13th. Doris - :ultluigi::ultsnake::ultkrool:
WEGA Ultimate #1 (weekly, London Ontario, 43 entrants)
4. Jarvis (J-Man) :ultganondorf::ultdk::ultkrool:
UltiMelt #5 (55 entrants) (Switzerland)
7. Hunter :ultinkling::ultbayonetta1::ultkrool:
Maroon Mayhem 1 (Starkville, MS) (70 Entrants)
2 Jake :ultincineroar::ultridley::ultyounglink::ultcloud::ultkrool:
Fight Arena 34 (57 entrants) (The Netherlands)
7. Muk :ultkrool::ultdarksamus::ultchrom:
Roadside Smash 5 (Tacoma, WA) 38 Entrants
1) KOSSismoss :ultkrool:
2) Kila :ultkrool:
Triton Smash Sundays #55 (CA, US ) (119 entrants)
4 Ito :ultkrool:
WEGA Weekly #3 (London Ontario, 33 entrants (including amateur bracket))
7. KnucklesUp :ultkrool:
No John's #18 (Provincia de San Jose, CR) (126 entrants)
9) Tavo :ultkrool:
Couchwarriors January Ranbat Melbourne, Australia, Jan 27th 2019 183 Entrants
7. Boozer :ultbowser: :ultridley: :ultkrool:
Both Isabelle and K. Rool currently have 37 noteworthy placements across all of the tournament results posted in the thread I mentioned before. Of Isabelle's 37, 6 of them were solo wins with Isabelle while K. Rool has 15 out of his 37. I didn't bother to pay too much attention to the dates but Isabelle's results while scarce, seemed a lot more evenly placed compared to K. Rool who seems to have most of his results from earlier in the games lifespan. Makes sense since people wouldn't have him figured out quite as well early on although the same can be said for Isabelle. I also haven't checked the amount of attendees for each tournament, I simply copy pasted so I'm not sure how many of these placements are from locals and how many are from regionals and such.

TDK TDK often makes posts in the tournament result thread showing the progress each character has made per week. I'm not sure if those posts are only factoring in the week he talks about in said posts or if it's overall throughout the games current lifespan. If he comes here and feels like clarifying and perhaps letting us know which character between Isabelle and K. Rool, who has more noteworthy placements, that'd clear things up.
 

TDK

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
3,635
Location
British Columbia
NNID
GrayCN
TDK TDK TDK TDK often makes posts in the tournament result thread showing the progress each character has made per week. I'm not sure if those posts are only factoring in the week he talks about in said posts or if it's overall throughout the games current lifespan. If he comes here and feels like clarifying and perhaps letting us know which character between Isabelle and K. Rool, who has more noteworthy placements, that'd clear things up.
Hi, my weekly results compilations only count that specific week and not the entire thing, mostly due to laziness but also because there's other places that have that automated while I do everything manually. However, since we're only 8 weeks into the game's lifespan and you asked, I went ahead and tallied up both K. Rool and Isabelle's results for the entire game, which are below:

Here's what I got tallying up all of my posts with graphics in it, which could both be more or less accurate than yours:
:ultisabelle: had 31 placements and 3 wins from tournaments with ~35 entrants or higher in the past 8 weeks.
:ultkrool: had 22 placements and 3 wins from tournaments with ~35 entrants or higher in the past 8 weeks.

My numbers are different than yours due to throwing out certain tournaments with too low an entrant count or with under four people posted for the sake of trying to gate what does and doesn`t qualify a bit. I'd consider going through the whole thread to be the "True" number while mine's probably a more accurate representation of characters. So Isabelle's results are, I would say, overall better than K. Rool's.

I'm going to note here a few things:
- K. Rool did significantly better than Isabelle did in the first two weeks of the game's lifespan.
- Isabelle's numbers are overall higher but less consistent than K. Rool's both pre and post-K. Rool falloff (K. Rool post-falloff would always be in the 1-3 range, while Isabelle more than once would have a week with something like 7 placements, then get 0-3 the next week)
- Both characters are, as of week 8, in a bit of a slump, failing to place at all during week 7 and only getting one placement each in week 8. I would think it's more likely for Isabelle to get out of that than K. Rool, though.

So there you have it. Hopefully this helps.

Also, I'm a girl.
 

Reila

the true enemy of humanity is anime
Joined
Feb 8, 2014
Messages
9,222
Location
Coffee Prince Town
Switch FC
SW-8176-8978-3289
I know Isabelle is classified as a "trapper" by every other person, but I am honestly having more success by playing her as some pseudo-rushdown kind of fighter. Her specials are simply too unreliable so I prefer to not count on them, and her up tilt and aerials are good enough (although she loses trades to a bunch of fighters, like swordies - but that goes for most of the non swordies roster). I still plant lloid traps, of course, but I prefer to only use the fishing rod to surprise people at times - until they buff the bloody thing.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
718
3DS FC
1161-0239-7545
NNID
ZeroJanitor
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
this might just be the way i play but it feels like isabelle really lives or dies by your spacing. if you've got a good sense of your position relative to your opponent and what options you have at that range, i think isabelle does really well. but i always feel like im one small mistake away from completely losing the advantage and having to fight my way back from the corner, where she seems to struggle.
 

Krysco

Aeon Hero
Premium
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,968
Location
Ontario, Canada
3DS FC
2122-7731-1180
NNID
Krysco
Had a play session with my buddy last night and I used Isabelle a bit. Been collecting my thoughts on her so far and figured I'd spitball them here.

Still really hoping they buff her down special. Either give it more HP or make it stronger and last longer if it's going to be so easy to destroy. The Marthlings can safely poke it with their dtilts and this likely holds true for the sweeping sword dtilts like Shulk, Ike and the Links along with MK's poke and any other disjointed poke like Falco's dtilt. Also had a Cloud destroy it with some Blade Beams and even Cross Slash. I've also had K. Rool's and Dedede's destroy it with their dash attacks.

Compounding this is an issue that's obvious to anyone who used Villager, Megaman or Mii Gunner (I think?) in Sm4sh. That issue being that with fair and bair being projectiles, they lose to any hitbox. Well, not ANY hitbox but any that are strong enough to match them in priority with fair and bairs priority getting weaker the further they are from Isabelle. You can predict someone going to attack your mine or even attempt to attack you, be it where you are or where they think you'll be and if you don't time it right, you can't even punish with fair or bair if they meet another hitbox. Obvious once you get used to it but most aerials aren't like that. Most will at least trade as long as they're not beaten by a disjoint. Nair, dair and uair aren't too horizontally ranged so it's harder for an aerial Isabelle to punish attacks. Gotta get used to punishing with dash attack or maybe fishing rod in those cases. Speaking of which...

I've also learned that I'm terrible at reacting to catching someone with my fishing rod online. I'll throw it out, whiff, go to reel it in and that catches them and I end up throwing them somewhere I'd rather not have since I was trying to buffer movement. Just something I gotta practice. I do like how they designed fishing rod to be a bit more of an aggro tool. They made the back throw send more vertically than horizontally so you're not encouraged to camp walkoffs or the edge with it but rather you're rewarded with earlier horizontal KOs or more stage control with it by using the forward throw. Makes it amazing for edgeguarding and even if you land it onstage, it rewards you more the more stage control you have.

Still kinda wish jab was stronger. Not sure how much frame advantage it gives but once they get pushed out of jab range, it doesn't lead to anything and it doesn't push people out as far as other trapper jabs do like the Links, DHD, Snake and Villager. That being said, it is hilarious to use in 2v1 scenarios. You hit someone at the edge with it and they don't get knocked off for a long time and your partner can keep walking into you, keeping you from being pushed out of jab range. My buddy and I have gotten like 40% or so online when we do dubs with it AND it can lead to KOs since your partner can fsmash while you're still jabbing.

Of all the characters I use in Ultimate, I feel I'm forcing myself to use Isabelle since I love her as a character but her playstyle isn't my usual cup of tea. That being said, even when I do poorly with her, I AM having fun evidently since I'm still using her. I tried using MK in Sm4sh since I love him as a character too but I eventually had to drop him since his playstyle just didn't click with me, no matter how hard I tried. Haven't gotten around to trying him out much in Ultimate since I've been mostly focused on the characters in my signature.

Unrelated to Smash but still related to Isabelle but it's a damn shame the recent direct didn't mention Animal Crossing 2019 at all. I'd say I may have missed it since my internet didn't want to cooperate during the direct but my fiancee was disappointed by the end of the direct and AC2019 is the title she's most hyped for so far this year so I'm pretty sure they didn't bring it up at all.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
866
Location
Alvarado, TX
Switch FC
3169-5182-0524
I'm on the edge of simply dropping isabelle until some improvements are made to her since as it stands there isn't much An Isabelle player can do against someone truly good

You Can Only see the Lloid blown up so many times before you just stop using it completely and same applies to the fishing rod

her gimmicks work best against Novices as anyone else won't just run into The Lloid or get hit by the rod that much
 

Sari

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
3,206
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Villager49
Switch FC
SW-2215-0173-2152
I'm on the edge of simply dropping isabelle until some improvements are made to her since as it stands there isn't much An Isabelle player can do against someone truly good

You Can Only see the Lloid blown up so many times before you just stop using it completely and same applies to the fishing rod

her gimmicks work best against Novices as anyone else won't just run into The Lloid or get hit by the rod that much
I love using Isabelle for fun but I honestly think she might be in the bottom 10. She has virtually no kill power and her gimmicks can be easily countered. I've lost count of how many times my opponent just ran over Lloid like it wasn't even there.

I'm really hoping they make Lloid more reliable and increase the range of her attacks (preferably forward smash) in future patches.
 
Last edited:

Call_Me_Red

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
421
Location
Yeehaw, Texas
I don't get all the hate for Isabelle. I really don't think she's that bad. She's definitely not too 10, but I don't think bottom 10 either.

She thrives off of mix ups. She has debatably one of the best F Smashs in the game. D smash is fast and hits below ledge, covering a roll option as well. Nair is surprisingly fast as a get-off-me tool. Fishing rod is gimmick central, and when used sparingly can be a devastating tool. Of course pocket is ridiculous (especially since items stay forever). Lloyd rocket isn't as good as Villager's but has its uses. It's great for covering ledge options, great for unexpected combos, great for zoning, and great for baiting out attacks to disable it.

Yes Isabelle is a gimmick character, but she has enough gimmicks and variety to make her viable. Isabelle for mayor 2020.
 

Fatmanonice

Unironically mains weird characters.
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
15,133
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
There's not really anything that Isabelle can do that Villager doesn't do but better. She's a defensive trap character that ironically gets zoned out very easily. I don't think she's irredeemable though. Like everyone has been saying, she'd be noticeably better if the Lloid actually worked like it's supposed to and her jab wasn't basically a free punish alone.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
718
3DS FC
1161-0239-7545
NNID
ZeroJanitor
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
i am honestly starting to develop a specific kind of disdain for villager because any time i complain about isabelle people tell me "just play villager lol" but i dont WANT to play villager i want to play ISABELLE

oh well
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
866
Location
Alvarado, TX
Switch FC
3169-5182-0524
i am honestly starting to develop a specific kind of disdain for villager because any time i complain about isabelle people tell me "just play villager lol" but i dont WANT to play villager i want to play ISABELLE

oh well
that's my issue as well...I Play with isabelle better than i ever did when even attempting villager in smash 4
 

Fatmanonice

Unironically mains weird characters.
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
15,133
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
Another complaint about Isabelle's rocket: kills at like 150 with rage while Snake's C4 starts killing most of the cast at like 100. This kind of kills me because it carries your opponent a significant distance off the ground before exploding. I have a similar gripe about the fishing pole and I think both should kill like 30% earlier.
 

Xigger

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
1,116
Location
California
Another complaint about Isabelle's rocket: kills at like 150 with rage while Snake's C4 starts killing most of the cast at like 100. This kind of kills me because it carries your opponent a significant distance off the ground before exploding. I have a similar gripe about the fishing pole and I think both should kill like 30% earlier.
I can understand why auto-attacking specials don't kill at normal percentages, but you're right, those number differences are pretty drastic...
 

Call_Me_Red

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
421
Location
Yeehaw, Texas
Isabelle just doesn't have the tools needed to compete at a high level sadly
I just don't agree with this. Again, I don't think she's a top 10 character but she has a really good toolkit. Frame 5 Nair, projectiles to spam, traps for zoning, tools to safely call out any recoveries, an up-b that can literally recover from anywhere, F smash that is safe on shield and practically combos into itself, great anti-air and get-down tools with disjointed up and down air (that can spike and kill respectively), and lastly a tool that nullifies all projectiles. I just really don't see many negatives here.

Also top tier taunts for the disrespect
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
718
3DS FC
1161-0239-7545
NNID
ZeroJanitor
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
lukewarm take: isabelle is not a great character and has multiple weaknesses but she's also a lot more effective than a lot of people realize
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,825
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned here yet but Isabelle's fishing rod has some sort of glitch/nerf.
I tested it and it seems that the moment the hook touches any hard surface the hitbox deactivates for the rest of the move, meaning no sneaky grabs when reeling it back.
Issy just can't catch a break :/
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
718
3DS FC
1161-0239-7545
NNID
ZeroJanitor
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
true but its counterbalanced by the fact that the bobber now has a hitbox even when stationary, so you can simply leave it on ledge for simple edgeguarding
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,627
Location
France
This doesn't appear to be true. Watch the last scenario in the video, 3 Lucinas walk over the bobber and none get caught. RIP Isabelle mains.
It's true, but only when the bobber stays in the air. Which indeed help for easy edgeguarding.

By the way, I noticed a weird interaction with the fishing rod and the right ledge of Smashville, the rod simply automatically reels to the ground. It's was weird.
 
Last edited:

Call_Me_Red

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
421
Location
Yeehaw, Texas
It's true, but only when the bobber stays in the air. Which indeed help for easy edgeguarding.

By the way, I noticed a weird interaction with the fishing rod and the right ledge of Smashville, the rod simply automatically reels to the ground. It's was weird.
Huh, so I guess this means that the fishing rod is a lot more niche. It seems that its really only viable as a ledge option, which is unfortunate. However, now it promotes not using it in neutral, so no more fishing rod n00bs.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
866
Location
Alvarado, TX
Switch FC
3169-5182-0524
man this place is dead.....i guess i shouldn't be surprised Isabelle has not been touched upon in patches(at least not in a positive way)and there's not really much to discuss when it comes to playing her

she's just A Trap/zoning character that isn't that good at her job
 

Mark The Page

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
95
man this place is dead.....i guess i shouldn't be surprised Isabelle has not been touched upon in patches(at least not in a positive way)and there's not really much to discuss when it comes to playing her

she's just A Trap/zoning character that isn't that good at her job
Yep. Isabelle was looking so much better than Villager until I learned how to capitalize on Villager's mix-ups, and learned that Isabelle's traps are fundamentally broken. You know, in the old meaning of the word.

There may be some merit to activating the trap when the opponent tries to jump over it, but if they dodge away then your only reward will probably be a long-range slingshot hit.
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,825
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
the bobber now has a hitbox even when stationary, so you can simply leave it on ledge for simple edgeguarding
Honestly I'd rather have the pull back hitbox. Isabelle never had any problems with edgeguarding, it's doing everything else that's an issue.

I'll start us on a new topic then~ now we all know Issy's pretty much done for in this game as her kit's kinda fundamentally flawed, but what would you like to see with her next game?

I'd like to see Pocket replaced with some long range projectile. In the OP there's a moveset that describes Issy using either a paper airplane or fruit as a long range arcing projectile and if we're going to stick with the trapper moveset then I think it'll be much more useful for actually getting people to approach. Pocket's useful for dealing with zoners and for that split second invincibility frames but it's very much Villager's unique characteristic.
Also switch ftilt and utilt weapons; there's a twirling umbrella animation in AC that can literally be ripped from the game as a good multihit defensive up tilt and a sweep along the ground with a broom makes much more sense than an overhead swipe and could get a bit of a windbox too.
 

Mark The Page

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
95
Honestly I'd rather have the pull back hitbox. Isabelle never had any problems with edgeguarding, it's doing everything else that's an issue.

I'll start us on a new topic then~ now we all know Issy's pretty much done for in this game as her kit's kinda fundamentally flawed, but what would you like to see with her next game?

I'd like to see Pocket replaced with some long range projectile. In the OP there's a moveset that describes Issy using either a paper airplane or fruit as a long range arcing projectile and if we're going to stick with the trapper moveset then I think it'll be much more useful for actually getting people to approach. Pocket's useful for dealing with zoners and for that split second invincibility frames but it's very much Villager's unique characteristic.
Also switch ftilt and utilt weapons; there's a twirling umbrella animation in AC that can literally be ripped from the game as a good multihit defensive up tilt and a sweep along the ground with a broom makes much more sense than an overhead swipe and could get a bit of a windbox too.
Isabelle's up-tilt is one of her best moves. You don't want to touch it.

That umbrella animation would make for a good multi-hit, which would flow better with her trapping strategy. N-air could also be a multihit even with its current animation. Her up-smash needs to be totally changed because it's one of the most pointless moves in the game. I don't know how Sakurai came up with that one.

Sakurai has stated (either in Famitsu or an interview) that they had difficulty making Isabelle fun to play against instead of an immobile camper. Their confusion really shows. In most of the ways that Villager and Isabelle diverge, it's Villager's moves which would suit Isabelle's strategy, and Isabelle's moves which would suit Villager's strategy. The developers don't always have their act together.
 

Luminario

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
1,825
Location
Your guess is as good as mine
Isabelle's up-tilt is one of her best moves. You don't want to touch it.

That umbrella animation would make for a good multi-hit, which would flow better with her trapping strategy. N-air could also be a multihit even with its current animation. Her up-smash needs to be totally changed because it's one of the most pointless moves in the game. I don't know how Sakurai came up with that one.

Sakurai has stated (either in Famitsu or an interview) that they had difficulty making Isabelle fun to play against instead of an immobile camper. Their confusion really shows. In most of the ways that Villager and Isabelle diverge, it's Villager's moves which would suit Isabelle's strategy, and Isabelle's moves which would suit Villager's strategy. The developers don't always have their act together.
Oh i agree her up tilt is one of her best moves this game, I'd just like some more multihits in the future.
I actually completely forgot about up smash. If they want to give it some desperately needed range they could make it into the geyser instead of the stop sign, or just make the sign bigger and maybe linger a bit.
I agree completely on the Villager part too. Villager's jab especially would give Issy at least one lingering hitbox that doesn't make her unsafe. She's even got the pom poms to make the move more suitable for her right there.
 

Mark The Page

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
95
Oh i agree her up tilt is one of her best moves this game, I'd just like some more multihits in the future.
I actually completely forgot about up smash. If they want to give it some desperately needed range they could make it into the geyser instead of the stop sign, or just make the sign bigger and maybe linger a bit.
I agree completely on the Villager part too. Villager's jab especially would give Issy at least one lingering hitbox that doesn't make her unsafe. She's even got the pom poms to make the move more suitable for her right there.
AAAAH, it'd be so adorable to give Isabelle a jab infinite where she's rolling her pom-poms, and maybe her finisher is an upward flourish!

Come on, Sakurai! How could you drop the Smash Ball like this? Guess he was too busy playing Persona.
 

Mark The Page

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
95
He doesn't go for many up-tilts (or tilts in general), and it doesn't look like he's learned how to pivot cancel or use instant dash attacks.

For the record, shorthopped slingshots do not make for an effective mid-range approach. You should be using instant dash attacks for that, or side-tilts for a more defensive option. He's got the right idea about knocking the opponent into the Lloid Trap, but I never saw him detonate it himself--that's something I do a lot now. I'm considering making a new topic about that tactic.
 

Mark The Page

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
95
Eh, I feel like I'm the only person in the world who knows about instant dash attacks and uses them. I've noticed that fighters with underwhelming ground options have consistently been given far dash attacks with near-zero startup. Dash attacks have been given such a bad rap in previous games, but take them seriously in Ultimate. For many fighters, your dash attack is basically a long-reaching, self-propelling tilt.

Also, your avatar makes me very uncomfortable.
 
Top