The 2006-2008 Tier list

[MaskedMarth]

For PAL, you have Sheik's down throw and Falco's down aerial nerfed, and the subtle weight changes hardly meaning anything except that Marth doesn't get shine combo'd any longer. So you have Sheik and Falco down, and anybody really vulnerable to dthrow or dair get moved up (I'm thinking Ganondorf and Marth). Marth also gets a slight boost from the improved Marth/Fox matchup (which you can probably say is in Marth's favor now), and likewise Fox slightly down.

I can see the top two tiers, thus, turning out something like this:

TOP: Fox, Marth, Peach
UPPER: Falco, CFalcon, Ice Climbers, Sheik

 

[StripesOrBars]

No Fox got ****ed worse than all the characters in PAL.

It would be something like:

Peach
Shiek
Marth
Falco
Fox

In the PAL version.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I would of thought that Marth got lowered. Didn't his spike get turned into a meteor in PAL.

 

[Magus420]

Yes it did. Also, Sheik's u-air is a joke by comparison in PAL KO wise. The top 4 all got nerfed in some way/s, though I'm not sure I agree with it being enough to put Peach at the very top as a result. Peach is kinda off on her own from the top 4 to begin with. I've only played a limited amount of the PAL version myself however so what do I know.

 

[mood4food77]

i know yoshi gets moved up in PAL, really the only character that gets help, kirby gets more weight, and mario is lighter, other than the high tier stuff from before that's it

this tier list sucks, i read what m2k said earlier about ness, kirby, y. link, and yoshi are overrated, he wins again, no surprise

ganon needs to move up, probably right under samus, he has like 4 bad match-ups, he's even in like 3 of them, and then beats out every other character in the game, but yet he's still below the marios who are like half and half and jiggs who basically has no upper tier match-up in her favor

really, i don't think there are enough tiers, there are so many gaps, sheik should be up with fox and falco because she's much better than marth

marth and peach should be together

ICs surpass falcon and have samus and maybe even ganon make a high tier

the marios have their own tier

jiggs is right smack in the middle

luigi above link, who both along with DK should be low tier alone

g&w above roy, y. link right under g&w, followed by pika, zelda, ness, and yoshi to make a lower tier

roy and bowser have their own tier

mewtwo above pichu who is now above kirby for the new bottom tier

there you have it, now discuss

and doodah, i think you win the most hated informational poster by noobs award

 

[Magus420]

Marth and Peach should not be together.

 

[Kirbyfighter]

How is DK that high. DK is strong but hes wayyy too slow. he should be in the lowest tier.

 

[Smooth_One]

i know yoshi gets moved up in PAL, really the only character that gets help, kirby gets more weight, and mario is lighter, other than the high tier stuff from before that's it

this tier list sucks, i read what m2k said earlier about ness, kirby, y. link, and yoshi are overrated, he wins again, no surprise

ganon needs to move up, probably right under samus, he has like 4 bad match-ups, he's even in like 3 of them, and then beats out every other character in the game, but yet he's still below the marios who are like half and half and jiggs who basically has no upper tier match-up in her favor

really, i don't think there are enough tiers, there are so many gaps, sheik should be up with fox and falco because she's much better than marth

marth and peach should be together

ICs surpass falcon and have samus and maybe even ganon make a high tier

the marios have their own tier

jiggs is right smack in the middle

luigi above link, who both along with DK should be low tier alone

g&w above roy, y. link right under g&w, followed by pika, zelda, ness to make a lower tier

roy and bowser have their own tier

mewtwo above pichu who is now above kirby for the new bottom tier

there you have it, now discuss

and doodah, i think you win the most hated informational poster by noobs award

Little confused on your Roy placement...
Okay this is what your tier list should look like...ish.

Rapage
Fox
Falco
Sheik

Pwnage
Marth
Peach

Superior (High Tier)
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Samus
Ganondorf

Plumber
Doctor Mario
Mario

Fluff Stuff (The Middle)
Jigglypuff

It's All Downhill from Here (Low Tier)
Luigi
Link
Donkey Kong

Better than Roy (Lower Tier)
Mr. Game & Watch
Young Link
Pikachu
Zelda
Ness
Yoshi

Crust
Roy
Bowser

[Doesn't Deserve a Name] (Bottom Tier)
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby

The only thing I see is that Ganon is now too high, and Pichu should be over Mewtwo. I don't think it's necessary to have this many different tiers, as each character is already better than the following. No need to be so picky IMO.

And I'll let someone else deal with how DK is not nearly as bad as the above poster thinks.

 

[NJzFinest]

How is DK that high. DK is strong but hes wayyy too slow. he should be in the lowest tier.

One name....Bum

 

[Eggm]

Smooth one, you didn't even include my favorite character yoshi D:, And yeah DK is a beast.

 

[mood4food77]

yea, i don't know why i forgot yoshi, fixed that just now

i put roy down that low because he has bad match-ups against almost the entire game, even compared to low tier, he only has a few good match-ups, and all of them are low tier, and he lacks juggles to keep pressuring the opponent, i think roy is way overrated

ganon is so underrated, how can someone with only 4 bad match-ups (fox, falco, sheik, falcon) be at the bottom of middle tier, sheik, fox, and falco are soft counters (sheik with 5-2 odds and the spacies at 5-3 odds, all in favor of them) and falcon at 5-4 odds, he's even with marth, and pretty much has the advantage over every other character in the game, and i've never seen a doc, mario, or jiggs, unless played by a pro or someone very well known, place above a ganon (also looking at tournament results), i think on average ganon places higher

i put mewtwo over pichu only because against the upper tiered characters, pichu does better in 3 of them, mewtwo does better in the rest

yea, that many tiers was a little much, but it shows large gaps, but i think there should be 2 more tiers, one upper and one lower, more like

top:
fox, falco, sheik

upper:
marth, peach

high:
ICs, falcon, samus,

mid:
ganon, doc, mario, jiggs

low:
luigi, link, dk

lower:
g&w, y. link, pika, roy, zelda, ness, yoshi

bottom:
bowser, mewtwo, pichu, kirby

that's what i think, because in the current one, there are huge gaps in mid tier and bottom tier

ICs, falcon, and samus do much better in tournaments than the rest of mid tier (i almost put ganon up there but he doesn't do anywhere near as good as they do)

in bottom tier, yoshi, zelda, g&w, and ness do much better than anyone bowser and lower, even when playing them i feel like they're better characters

i'm keeping fox above falco for now since in most match-ups, fox does better, especially against the upper tiered match-ups which is what matters most, actually in almost all match-ups fox is the tougher opponent, falco is just way more annoying, if it wasn't for the SHL, falco wouldn't be anywhere near where he is now

after thought i did put roy too low but i think he should be lower than he is now

 

[tarheeljks]

I agree. However, if that happened Middle Tier would be HUGE. I think that another tier should be added to split Middle Tier. (Upper? Can't think of a better name.) Bottom Tier's also pretty big.

I think Ness and G&W should move up at least one tier, but since I can't come up with a decent argument, I'll leave that statement alone >_>

Why does the size of the middle tier matter. Since it is the middle tier, it is perfectly reasonable for it to have the most characters.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Mood, that list is excellent, except Marth should be in top also.

Leave Peach in her own tier.

 

[Smooth_One]

However Luigi/Link/DK would still be in the 'low' tier tourneys. Maybe for that tier list they would be 'lower' tier tourneys? =P

 

[StripesOrBars]

DK is not as good as Luigi and Link.

Luigi and Link **** low tiers.

DK doesn't.

 

[BigRick]

What's up with the Roy nerfage? He should be under DK imo, that would make a Roy/DK Tier.

Also whats up with the G&W boostage? I would leave him under pika.

 

[Diddy Kong]

DK is not as good as Luigi and Link.

Luigi and Link **** low tiers.

DK doesn't.

Yes DK doesn't **** low tiers, but he has advantage above alot of Bottom Tiers which ARE played to you know?

 

[StripesOrBars]

Who?

Bowser.

That's it.

He's basically even with Pichu Kirby and Mew2.

 

[MaskedMarth]

I think you need to heavily weight the importance of matchups towards "vs. high tier".....so that a matchup against Fox is vastly more important than a matchup against Pikachu. After all, Foxes are all over the place in tournaments, and Pikachus aren't.

So as a really rough estimate you could take, say, the eight most important characters (Fox through Samus), and look at how well each character does against these core characters. Like this:

Ganondorf beats Samus and the IC's
goes even with Marth, Peach
loses to Falcon, Fox, Sheik, Falco

(this is hypothetical, so suppose that these are the correct way the matchups work)

And then compare him to other characters in middle and high tier (how do his matchups compare to Link's, to Jigglypuff's, et cetera), and see how they turn out. Of course, this is a rough estimate - I'm not taking into account the degree of each win or loss (like, Ganon loses slightly to Falcon but greatly to Falco). But it gives you an idea of how each character pans out.

 

[NJzFinest]

Ganon goes even with Marth.....since when?

 

[mood4food77]

since people figured out that dthrow ***** the **** outta marth, it's just as bad as sheik's on marth, heck, ganon can deal up to 60% from one dthrow that leads into a juggle, i want to say ganon has the upperhand, but it's even, marth's fair is really what stops ganon from having the upperhand

so, you mean something like this doodah?

top:
fox, falco, sheik, marth

peach tier:
peach

high:
ICs, falcon, samus,

mid:
ganon, doc, mario, jiggs

low:
luigi, link, dk

lower:
g&w, y. link, pika, roy, zelda, ness, yoshi

bottom:
bowser, mewtwo, pichu, kirby

what about having ICs and falcon up with peach, leaving samus alone and putting ganon up right below samus

 

[Smooth_One]

Yeah, I say move ICs up, I'm not sure about Falcon or Ganon though.
Have at least 2 character per tier. =/

 

[cowboyardee]

since people figured out that dthrow ***** the **** outta marth, it's just as bad as sheik's on marth, heck, ganon can deal up to 60% from one dthrow that leads into a juggle, i want to say ganon has the upperhand, but it's even, marth's fair is really what stops ganon from having the upperhand

so, you mean something like this doodah?

top:
fox, falco, sheik, marth

peach tier:
peach

high:
ICs, falcon, samus,

mid:
ganon, doc, mario, jiggs

low:
luigi, link, dk

lower:
g&w, y. link, pika, roy, zelda, ness, yoshi

bottom:
bowser, mewtwo, pichu, kirby

what about having ICs and falcon up with peach, leaving samus alone and putting ganon up right below samus

I'm with doodah. Peach belongs in her own tier. Just based on general observation of tournaments -- she wins significantly less than marth and significantly more than ICs.


Adding to your ganon and marth comments -- I'm a marth in an area where ganon is strangely popular -- even marth's fair is a double-edged sword (pun intended? I don't even know anymore). Yeah it combos ganon like crazy, but marth has to be really careful with it (or any aerial) cuz too often marth and ganon wind up trading hits in the air, even with good spacing. This obviously works out pretty nicely for ganon. Marth can of course approach on the ground, but he doesn't really have any great grab combos on ganon and all of his other ground options get punished badly.

All of this amounts to... i dunno. The matchup still feels pretty even to me. But marth definitely has his share of problems against a patient ganon.

 

[mood4food77]

i feel that ganon should have the upperhand on both marth and peach, remember,when marth is at 13%, ganon can dthrow to dsmash to uair to uair to uair, that's at least 60% more damage to marth and it's unescapeable

right now, ganon has a minor advantage on peach, but it's becoming greater and greater, ganon is one of peach's top 3 worst match-ups IMO, so i really think ganon has the advantage

and ganon on his bad match-ups are becoming closer and closer, some people consider ganon on falcon an even match-up, sheik used to be a hard counter, now it's becoming a soft one, fox and falco are now only considered soft counters, so ganon is getting better and better each day, didn't tipman almost win an mlg going straight ganon?

ganon is very underrated, he should be higher

 

[Izombie]

I agree with the tiers. I think they did a good job in placing everyone. Although I would of like to have seen Yoshi higher. But thats just because I like Yoshi

 

[StripesOrBars]

since people figured out that dthrow ***** the **** outta marth, it's just as bad as sheik's on marth, heck, ganon can deal up to 60% from one dthrow that leads into a juggle, i want to say ganon has the upperhand, but it's even, marth's fair is really what stops ganon from having the upperhand

so, you mean something like this doodah?

top:
fox, falco, sheik, marth

peach tier:
peach

high:
ICs, falcon, samus,

mid:
ganon, doc, mario, jiggs

low:
luigi, link, dk

lower:
g&w, y. link, pika, roy, zelda, ness, yoshi

bottom:
bowser, mewtwo, pichu, kirby

what about having ICs and falcon up with peach, leaving samus alone and putting ganon up right below samus

Good Idea.

i feel that ganon should have the upperhand on both marth and peach, remember,when marth is at 13%, ganon can dthrow to dsmash to uair to uair to uair, that's at least 60% more damage to marth and it's unescapeable

right now, ganon has a minor advantage on peach, but it's becoming greater and greater, ganon is one of peach's top 3 worst match-ups IMO, so i really think ganon has the advantage

and ganon on his bad match-ups are becoming closer and closer, some people consider ganon on falcon an even match-up, sheik used to be a hard counter, now it's becoming a soft one, fox and falco are now only considered soft counters, so ganon is getting better and better each day, didn't tipman almost win an mlg going straight ganon?

ganon is very underrated, he should be higher

Shiek is still a hard counter. Not only can she chain grab him 0 to death, but everything else she does leads to death. Ganon isn't even hard to grab.

Ganon/Peach is hard for me to place. Tipman NEVER loses to any Peach. EVER.

Yeah, Ganon is waaaaay under rated.

 

[BayDj]

I think kirby should be higher, at least higher than bowser and pichu, that **** pinkball is really fast and his attacks are above average.

 

[KAN]

I think kirby should be higher, at least higher than bowser and pichu, that **** pinkball is really fast and his attacks are above average.

Not really. Kirby is not very fast and his attacks are below average. O_o

 

[nitro-blazer]

The only reason Kirby should be higher are Kirbycides, his crouch, and his jumps giving him the ability for more aggressive edgeguarding. The first 2 can be avoided easily, while the last one depends on the charaters recovery. He doesn't have anything, really, and should be bottom of the list, but not by much. [This coming from a Kirby main.]

 

[NJzFinest]

Kirby should be last on the list. There were enough posts about this in the previous pages. I don't feel like repeating anything.

 

[StripesOrBars]

How could HAL make such a horrid character?

 

[06Falcon]

How could HAL make such a horrid character?

cause he was too good in the first? or they want him to be exactly the way he looks, weak and pathetic? i dont know, those are my guesses.

 

[mood4food77]

they really screwed up with kirby, they wanted to weaken him but not that much, how could a character go from the best character to the worst, it's pathetic, he's the biggest disappointed to the series (like mewtwo, except kirby started off good in teh first one, mewtwo didn't exist, he was supposed to be good but ended up sucking)

heck, kirby is probably so bad that he can have a kirby tier to himself called what the heck happened

 

[StripesOrBars]

In the Smash players guide, Mew2 has 4 stars out of 5 lolol.

 

[06Falcon]

In the Smash players guide, Mew2 has 4 stars out of 5 lolol.

wow... thats just.. wow... let me guess, kirby got 5? lol

 

[Pyrostormer]

Sheik should move down to middle tier and Captain Falcon Should move down to the third spot in the High Tier. IMO! Like before.

 

[Emblem Lord]

This is how I know that if Marth is in the next game he will suck. Look what they did to Kirby, Ness, and Pikachu. They are on a mission to nerf all top tiers.

Oh well. There's always Pit. He looks awesome.

 

[06Falcon]

This is how I know that if Marth is in the next game he will suck. Look what they did to Kirby, Ness, and Pikachu. They are on a mission to nerf all top tiers.

Oh well. There's always Pit. He looks awesome.

well, think of it this way, there is always a posibility they wont f*** the characters up.

 

[mood4food77]

actually, kirby did get 5 stars in that guide, along with doc and mario

 

[06Falcon]

actually, kirby did get 5 stars in that guide, along with doc and mario

o_O then what did marth get?