Testing gah...

[RT]

Stiltz mentioned that his tournament would have Meta banned. If it still happens, it would be interesting how different the top 10 spots would be. Of course, all the Meta-only mains would be majorly screwed, but there are so very few Meta-only mains in Houston.

 

[Gea]

I don't think he should be banned yet.

Also a soft ban doesn't work in America. We'd just use him anyways.

Changing it for one tournament would give false results... you wouldn't see the main shift towards snake/DDD like you would over a longer period of time. Though snake is beatable... Still. People are learning how to fight Meta. Its not THAT bad, and this is coming from a peach player.

 

[garrR]

I think we should do what Italy did,

Ban metaknight for the time being, maybe just a few tournaments, and see how the metagame develops. than put metaknight back into the tournament scene and if he's still "unbeatable" ban him

that logic is kind of contradictory to me. if we take metaknight out of the metagame, we adjust to a metagame without metaknight (i said "meta" 4 times there, haha). when we throw him back in, we will have adjusted to an absence of metaknight, leaving us less ready to face off against him.

i'm not saying we shouldn't ban metaknight, i'm just pointing out that reason didn't make sense to me. i'm kind of ambivalent about the issue.

 

[Gnes]

I don't think he should be banned yet.

Also a soft ban doesn't work in America. We'd just use him anyways.

Changing it for one tournament would give false results... you wouldn't see the main shift towards snake/DDD like you would over a longer period of time. Though snake is beatable... Still. People are learning how to fight Meta. Its not THAT bad, and this is coming from a peach player.

Thats just cuz u can float..the rest of us have to stay on the ground and get mauled...j/k hes definetly beatable...i dont think hes ban worthy just yet...

 

[SParklez]

scooby suits > everything

I wish I had gotten some sleep before this pic(awake for 30 hours), and the fact that I probably had about 1200mg of ibuprofen made me look ********.

 

[Furbs]

**** Yeaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!

 

[Xyro77]

LISTEN!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!

If you havnt already, please go look back at the results of HOBO 11. Did you know 7 or 8 of the top 10 used metaknight? Also, there were 8 or 9 others in the bracket that used metaknight that didnt reach 9th place. Oh and in pools, yea another 6 to 8 players used metaknight.

Some thing needs to be done. Im not gonna BAN him YET but we really need to talk about this.

 

[Furbs]

Did you know 7 or 8 of the top 10 used metaknight?

G.I. joeeeeeeee

 

[Gnes]

LISTEN!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!

If you havnt already, please go look back at the results of HOBO 11. Did you know 7 or 8 of the top 10 used metaknight? Also, there were 8 or 9 others in the bracket that used metaknight that didnt reach 9th place. Oh and in pools, yea another 6 to 8 players used metaknight.

Some thing needs to be done. Im not gonna BAN him YET but we really need to talk about this.

I understand u Xyro but banning meta will just bring more problems...without meta who the heck is gonna stop the likes of DDD and the other top tiers...Banning one top tier just leads the way to the others...And when hes unbanned the madness will start again...Ill leave the technical talk to some other player...Basically i think its a bad idea...*and i play kirby lol*

 

[OhMyGodItzMouf]

allan, it's pretty simple. just ban em. he's obviously broken, everybody knows he is, no thought required just ban him

 

[Gea]

<.< mocking me? I KEEL YOU

 

[RT]

Gnes, when we play tomorrow, use Meta only. I want you do destroy everyone there.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

I still think we should wait till like january of next year before laying the ban on mk.

 

[Magik0722]

Well i did not main metaknioght for the tournament (i played two matches with metaknight and lost them both) I went snake / PT and I'm pretty sure i never saw hylian use metaknight that tournament as i saw quite a few of his matches. So if im right about hylian then that would be 6 metaknights in the top 12 (i dont know how you can use top 10 because of the 4 way tie for 9th place. So that is half the people. After top 12, 8 people used metaknight. So thats a total of 14 metaknights for the top 60. so 14/60 = 23% is nearly 1/4 of the players were metaknights. Pretty accurate I would say since the characters i played in the tournament were : Yoshi (furbs), Samus (Xyro), GaW (hylian), Snake (DSF), Metaknight (Domo) or 1/5 = 20% metaknights.


I'm not going to reveal my position on the ban until the real debate goes on but i just wanted to give some data.

 

[CY]

I'm so disappointed in myself that I understand all of Le_thien's post.

However, whenever we play Chandeliers (drinking game) and the categories game comes up, the girls always pick stuff like fashion designers or something and I always end up kicking ***

is that similar to the drinking game 'kings'? i've played kings before it's where someone draws a card and you drink according to what the card is. whenever you draw a Q it's categories and it sounds similar to chandeliers, was just wondering.

also, where are all the HOBO videos?

 

[Furbs]

lol u went meta vs me and won >.>

 

[Xyro77]

I understand u Xyro but banning meta will just bring more problems...without meta who the heck is gonna stop the likes of DDD and the other top tiers...Banning one top tier just leads the way to the others...And when hes unbanned the madness will start again...Ill leave the technical talk to some other player...Basically i think its a bad idea...*and i play kirby lol*

Every char has a bad match up(or lots of them). meaning there is an answer to every match up in this game.

metaknight doesnt. at all. there is no answer to meta except meta dittos

I still think we should wait till like january of next year before laying the ban on mk.

i will wait. i want reasons WHY he should be banned and reasons why he shoudlnt. "its too early" or anything like that is dumb. people are not "finding ways around metaknight" unless you count metaknight dittos.

 

[kown]

naw it will definitely start with allan....allan doesnt care what SBR thinks. thats y texas is awesome

i think the right thing is to not ban him but at the same time if it continues like this and more ppl start playing him than i think we should reconsider.

ionno lately against mks ive been doing pretty well...its just some chars have zero chance of winning.

Also MK doesnt meet the requirements for being banned just yet.
Can he be beaten? yes
Is it easy to be good with? not completely

 

[CY]

Well i did not main metaknioght for the tournament (i played two matches with metaknight and lost them both) I went snake / PT and I'm pretty sure i never saw hylian use metaknight that tournament as i saw quite a few of his matches. So if im right about hylian then that would be 6 metaknights in the top 12 (i dont know how you can use top 10 because of the 4 way tie for 9th place. So that is half the people. After top 12, 8 people used metaknight. So thats a total of 14 metaknights for the top 60. so 14/60 = 23% is nearly 1/4 of the players were metaknights. Pretty accurate I would say since the characters i played in the tournament were : Yoshi (furbs), Samus (Xyro), GaW (hylian), Snake (DSF), Metaknight (Domo) or 1/5 = 20% metaknights.


I'm not going to reveal my position on the ban until the real debate goes on but i just wanted to give some data.

you played mk against me and all my other opponents in my pool. -_- except aganst stiltz i think.

 

[Pipes]

So I was thinking of finally finding a main and sticking to it.
Now, the argument here is whether or not I want to have fun and keep my self-respect, or throw out my dignity and beat a few more people.
Captain Falcon Or Meta-knight for Pipes Main?
You decide '08.

 

[Magik0722]

lol u went meta vs me and won >.>

Oh i thought i went snake. nvm then forget everything i just said.

 

[RT]

Pipes, I vote third party for you, so that means the Random button.

DO IT.

For yourself and your tie.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

people are not "finding ways around metaknight" unless you count metaknight dittos.

Anther atm is currently dominating the MW in the circuit, generally beating the best mks we have. I dont know how these mks stand up to what was at hobo though. and he uses pikachu, where we consider mk one of pikas worst matchups. he at the vesy least is finding ways around it.

 

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

Yeah seriously **** mmo's. You never hear a smasher say "sorry guys I can't hang out because I have to go on a raid with my guild."

I beg to differ...

*Is still sad the D-krew pretty much disbanded due to WoW*

 

[SParklez]

also, where are all the HOBO videos?

Many of the finals (the ones M2K were in) were requested not to be recorded =[

 

[Xyro77]

Anther atm is currently dominating the MW in the circuit, generally beating the best mks we have. I dont know how these mks stand up to what was at hobo though. and he uses pikachu, where we consider mk one of pikas worst matchups. he at the vesy least is finding ways around it.

And guess what...hes the exception. You cant tell me pikas all across the usa are beating meta. if that were so, people would never even begin to ban metaknight.

each character in melee had a "answer". in brawl meta is the only one that doesnt.

 

[Doxa]

Well i did not main metaknioght for the tournament (i played two matches with metaknight and lost them both) I went snake / PT and I'm pretty sure i never saw hylian use metaknight that tournament as i saw quite a few of his matches. So if im right about hylian then that would be 6 metaknights in the top 12 (i dont know how you can use top 10 because of the 4 way tie for 9th place. So that is half the people. After top 12, 8 people used metaknight. So thats a total of 14 metaknights for the top 60. so 14/60 = 23% is nearly 1/4 of the players were metaknights. Pretty accurate I would say since the characters i played in the tournament were : Yoshi (furbs), Samus (Xyro), GaW (hylian), Snake (DSF), Metaknight (Domo) or 1/5 = 20% metaknights.


I'm not going to reveal my position on the ban until the real debate goes on but i just wanted to give some data.

Your top 60 argument is irrelevant. Metaknight's amount of usage is not being argued, his superiority is being argued. It is pretty fair to say that it was 9/12 of the top people went metaknight at some point or another, and that is the more important statistic that is making people edgy about Metaknight's continued inclusion in competitive play.

Anecdotal evidence does not trump statistics so Anther's example is irrelevant.

 

[Furbs]

it was both :'( i want to play a good pokemans trainer

 

[Affinity]

I understand u Xyro but banning meta will just bring more problems...without meta who the heck is gonna stop the likes of DDD and the other top tiers...Banning one top tier just leads the way to the others...And when hes unbanned the madness will start again...Ill leave the technical talk to some other player...Basically i think its a bad idea...*and i play kirby lol*

No, that argument was beaten a while ago.

MK is the only character that has no bad match-ups. Even characters like Snake and DDD have bad match-ups. (DDD/Falco/Pikachu have an advantage over Snake. Falco/Diddy/Olimar have an advantage over DDD.)


At this point I believe banning MK will be good for competitive play.

 

[CY]

Many of the finals (the ones M2K were in) were requested not to be recorded =[

i mean like general videos. like the last HOBO 10 video.

 

[SParklez]

Yeah me and my friend were unable to bring a 10mp camera we usually use. Tallman has a few i know for sure.

 

[Magik0722]

i mean like general videos. like the last HOBO 10 video.

The RGV recorded several matches, Ill bug the recorder to upload them.

 

[po pimpus]

I know I'm not Texas, but I'll chime in anyway on Meta... My pool was pretty even skill wise-- Aside from Mr. 3000, who had a clear 1st place. I tied with two other guys who I split matches with(sorry I can't remember your names guys).

We drew numbers to see who would play the first tie-breaker(this system confused me greatly), I went first. The other guy I had to play chose Meta. He was not Meta-Knight during our original pool match. I figure it is because he could think of no other way of dealing with my Luigi, and that's cool. It was still a pretty heated battle despite that, as I won the first match. Although I disagree with Port Town Aero Dive ( the F-Zero stage), being used as a counter-pick, apparently it was in the rules for him to do so. The stage then proceeded to **** me repeatedly(50% car deaths, the wall of doom, etc.) I lost, took it to Smashville and then lost to a Shuttle Loop gimp on our final stocks, high percentage. I did not make it out of pools, sadly.

The point of that story is that I think that using Metaknight as a crutch for skill is silly. When someone who is evenly matched with you using their main can all of a sudden cause you to struggle to even KO them, just by selecting Meta-Knight, something is wrong.

However, I believe in the spirit of competition, and even though I was gayed badly by luck, circumstance, rules, and Meta-Knight, I still lost fairly and will concede the fact that if I had played better I wouldn't have been in that situation in the first place...

Despite all of that, I do not feel that the character is ban-worthy just yet, but with the way things are going, he will be soon. I personally feel after the tons of friendlies I played against many Metas over the weekend, that I can deal with him a bit better, but it is a very difficult mountain to climb. Good luck to any TO that has to make such a tough decision.

Also, women at a Smash tournament? There is no such thing. All Sachi and Sammi are just figments of our collective imaginations. No woman, particularly hot-looking ones, would dare venture into the sausage-fest that is Smash, and they certainly would not be annoucing matches or helping to run them

 

[Hylian]

I didn't play MK once in the brackets. I went all GW and one match as ICs.

I'm going to point some things out for all of you to think about. They are not biased for MK being banned or not, because honestly I'm 50-50 on the subject.

1. If MK is banned, the rest of the top tiers will balance out match-up wise. Tournaments won't suddenly start being dominated by snakes and DDDs, because those characters actually have bad match-ups.

To draw it out:

Mk = No bad match-ups

Snake = Disadvantaged vs Falco,DDD, and Rob and goes even with about 6 other characters.

DDD= Disadvantaged vs ICs/Falco/Olimar even with many characters

GW = Disadvantaged vs Snake/Marth, has slight disadvantages vs DDD and some other characters and goes even with a lot of characters

Falco = Disadvantaged vs Marth/GW
Rob = Disadvantaged vs GW,DDD some others.

Things work out. One character won't dominate tournaments because the top tier without MK can all compete with each other and they all have hard match-ups in the high/middle tier as well. It balances out.

2. Prematurly banning MK will make us SUCK against OOS. If texas ever travels OOS and MK isn't banned then we will be destroyed because of lack of experience vs MK. If MK is truly broken and not healthy for this game then eventually EVERYONE will have him banned for the most part. If you want Texas to do even decently against MK then you need to not ban him until everyone else does or the SBR does.

3. This was one of the first national tournaments. Yes, the results showed MK in dominance, but he IS the best character in the game. Weather or not he is too broken for the competitve scene is really hard to determin yet. It's looking like it but we don't really know yet. Some more large tournaments could happen and MK might only get like 1 place in top 10. We don't know yet because we haven't had many.

4. Once you ban a character, it is REALLY hard to bring him back. Once MK is gone, he is gone for good unless you set a specific time period in which he will be banned. People will get so used to the idea of MK being banned that if we ever want to unban him years later it will be almost impossibile. So we want to make sure we are absolutly right about MK. Doing things too early can be harmful.


Those are some things to think about.

 

[kown]

man if we banned meta think of all the crap the world will give texas....I also think tournament show ups will decrease because thiers not many ppl who dont go to tournaments saying " i dont wanna go because thiers so many MK's." THose ppl go to hva eufn and play friendlies and wtvr. I think if we ban Mk it will end up being "they banned my char im not playing brawl anymore....(goes back to melee)."

 

[Zori]

im pretty sure dugg hates me :'(

My first tourney I get t-rex my second round and he places 1st

Second time i get hylain mt third match and he places 5th

And then i get azen my second match and he places 2nd

/johns

 

[heytallman]

-snip-

Was it Solacin who went Meta Knight against you for the tie breaker? If so, he did the same thing to me in bracket. I went 1-1 against his Fox, then the third match, his counterpick, he chooses Port Town and goes MK. I was so upset.

 

[Doxa]

@Hylian: I think once houston exhibits a healthy brawl scene without MK many will follow so Houston's ability to compete OOC and OOS may become irrelevant. A good idea to alleviate fears in #4 is to have a "suspension of MK". It will end by the new year and we can deliberate if it has benefitted the brawl scene. I actually like that idea.

@kown: And? Sometimes the best thing to do is an unpopular thing to do. Hasn't Japan banned MK or Snake or something? Plus, I'm sure there are people alienated by MK's dominance, so either way it is possible to we lose people.


Would anyone be game for a temporary "suspension" of MK in which we could test if the absence of MK is beneficial?

 

[Dojo]

A big thing about this was alot of the top Mk's were around here. Not to mention 2 of them happen to be pretty much the best around period.

I'm also 50/50 on the subject because I'm already working on my secondary for a new main, but hasty decision will bone the **** outta us right now. Santi went really close against M2K. RoyR managed to beat him. Spike or no spike he still did it. A few others did as well. People are beginning to get the matchup down and only some of the best MK's are really gonna give people trouble. We still need to hold off for a while to see how it folds out.

 

[Fogo]

dont ban him, beat him, that's my motto.