Legality Tentative: MBR Official Ruleset for 2012

[Fortress | Sveet]

I don't think that was in the scope of my post. I think its fairly clear that posting here allows you to interact with good posters on the site (MBR and non-MBR) and good ideas from this thread are always considered.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I donno, maybe somebody finds the number "3.74" really offensive. This political correctness trend forces me to start calling all humor "arguably funny."

I genuinely lol'd at this.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Kal]

Not many people appreciate my (arguably) subtle humor, Smooth Criminal.

 

[KishPrime]

Wait I got accepted in a year ago? Pretty sure I've been a continuous member for 8 years. Oh wait they kicked everyone out at one point, didn't they? I quit it once too when they were being stupid. Then they asked me to come back.

The problem with your statement is that you did make a generalization. There are like 6 billion people in the world who have opinions on what they like and don't like, and no secret, undemocratic back room of like 20 people should be telling everyone else that because they're smarter (a shaky proposition to begin with), that others' opinions (about how to play a video game) are stupid because they aren't worth having a conversation with.

I will try to say this as gently as possible - it just makes me sad that anyone could actually make this statement seriously. Yes, there is always someone who is wrong and will disagree with you 99% of the time in life. That's just part of the game of public discussion and debate. If you engage in the game, you have to respectfully make your case and live with the results. I wasn't a fan of Cactuar pulling that card earlier, either, but he apologized for it which was a nice leadership move.

I think Shai has been on-target, or at the very least rationally on-topic, with most of what he has said, though I'm not claiming his exact opinions as my own. I'm just not certain why you decided that was the best response.

 

[Cactuar]

To Kal's point, I think it would be worthwhile to have a thread separate from the ruleset that details the current positions on each of the stages, explaining the pro's and con's of each stage.

Generally, when people ask me why any stage is banned, I can immediately give a laundry list of reasons. I know this isn't true for all MBR members, but I don't agree with that whole "if you can't explain to them..." line. I explain it every time. People just try and find justifications for each of the individual reasons not being enough to warrant the stage being banned without viewing the stage as an aggregation of those pros/cons.

Just as an example:
Brinstar
Problematic Elements:
Lava
Changes in Lava Position

Lava by itself is not a reason to ban the stage. If the lava was at a set position of under the stage but reasonably above the blast zone, like with the water flow on Japes, it would be acceptable.

"Lava combined with an often-changing position, including positions that envelop the stage" on the other hand leads to the necessary consideration of how lava affects characters of different weights differently, how the advantage provided to characters with varied fall speeds and aerial mechanics is inconsistent, etc.

Maybe if I can get some spare time I'll create that list...

@Kish: I didn't really pull that card, I just made the statement incorrectly. I disregarded Shai nearly completely because I viewed him as being overly hostile when the same points could have been made without the aggression, not because his opinion wasn't worth listening to. My apology was for my wording, not for my meaning. The generic usage of calling someone a "nobody" got blended with my statement, despite my efforts to define it to make the distinction.

That was the best response at the time to someone who is demanding I provide them with information that would take me a significant amount of time to gather when I really don't care what they think.

 

[Kal]

It would be nice if you explained how exactly the MBR makes the ruleset. We have nothing with regards to the specifics.

 

[Strong Badam]

Cactuar makes a ruleset, we talk about it and bring up any issues, then Cactuar posts it. Each member has their own individual criteria for banning things and our opinions all go into the ruleset.

 

[Cactuar]

Pretty much. I write the whole thing out using a combination of everything that has been discussed as pros and cons of the previous ruleset, and then it goes through an open-viewing phase where everyone is allowed to voice their concerns and review the thing. Problems are discussed, changes are made, and then the next draft is made. This time around, I never finalized it and posted it to the general population the same way it gets posted to the MBR.

Just to make this clear: I am the sole writer, but I am not the sole creator. My role is closer to being a scribe/secretary/work slave than anything significant. >.>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Wait I got accepted in a year ago? Pretty sure I've been a continuous member for 8 years. Oh wait they kicked everyone out at one point, didn't they? I quit it once too when they were being stupid. Then they asked me to come back.

The problem with your statement is that you did make a generalization. There are like 6 billion people in the world who have opinions on what they like and don't like, and no secret, undemocratic back room of like 20 people should be telling everyone else that because they're smarter (a shaky proposition to begin with), that others' opinions (about how to play a video game) are stupid because they aren't worth having a conversation with.

I will try to say this as gently as possible - it just makes me sad that anyone could actually make this statement seriously. Yes, there is always someone who is wrong and will disagree with you 99% of the time in life. That's just part of the game of public discussion and debate. If you engage in the game, you have to respectfully make your case and live with the results. I wasn't a fan of Cactuar pulling that card earlier, either, but he apologized for it which was a nice leadership move.

I think Shai has been on-target, or at the very least rationally on-topic, with most of what he has said, though I'm not claiming his exact opinions as my own. I'm just not certain why you decided that was the best response.

I said something un-PC and you are trying to make me sterilize it. I understand but i don't really care.

 

[KishPrime]

PC? Shrug. If that's how you choose to see it, I won't try to argue.

Guess I should just retire from the thread again and spend my time on more FC-related activities.

 

[Kal]

Or

 

[KishPrime]

Psh, you've got this. I really do need to keep my attention focused...time is the hardest thing to come by right now, but figured I should get in at least one more good ruleset conversation in for good measure.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

get one more good sveet bashing you mean lol

 

[Kal]

**** you sveet

 

[KishPrime]

I'm genuinely sorry if you take it as a bashing. I just have very strong feelings about leadership and they leak out every now and again. There are times where you have to be strong and push things on people that they might not want with raw authority, like your 2-year-old son and his medicine. Then there are public forums where it's not so clear who really has authority over the product.

I try to engage in all discussions with the purpose of sharpening and being sharpened. Hopefully in the conflict we both learn something.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh no, i was kidding KP. I always enjoy talking with you in the same way I enjoy tackling a hard puzzle. Sometimes its tedious to solve, but its always rewarding. My only complaint is that too often i find myself being forced into linguistic issues and not conceptual issues.

 

[KishPrime]

Welcome to Internet Forum Discussions. :/

lolol

 

[Strong Badam]

man **** sveet

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sorry adam, i already sig'd kal's.

Also, beware my post count is catching up to yours fast

 

[Bing]

Yeah **** Sveet?

But back on somewhat of a ruleset topic, I was giving it a lot of thought, especially when I was filing out of the MBR application, and I think that we dont really need an adjusted stage list. With what we have now, it does offer variety, an advantage to almost every character, without being broken (Like camping corneria) so despite that our options are small, especially in comparisson to a game like Brawl which opens with 7 stages, then adds like 5 others for CP. Its still a pretty good set.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There is a lot of variety in the neutrals, that is true. Even though they appear to be cloned stages, they each have their own uniqueness. Every match-up changes a decent amount depending on the stage.

 

[Bing]

Yeah I mean the platform spacing is different on every stage even if its by the slightest amount, it can change entire combos. Look at Yoshi's and battlefield.Ignoring the obvious Randall and fly guys. Plus the small blast lines, Yoshi's also has a wall to tech off the whole way down, Battlefield has that tiny ledge.

Stadium changes and makes everything a mess lol.(I actually hate stadium, especially in teams)

 

[Kal]

Can't believe I forgot to include this Maddox article.

Five things that sucked about Lord of the Rings.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

That was probably the least amusing one...

 

[Kal]

Yeah, in retrospect, I probably only thought it was hilarious because I first read it when I was 14.

 

[Shai Hulud]

dude do you seriously read posts or do you just read the first sentence of each paragraph or something? I havent seen you make a valid reply to one of cactuar's posts yet. So either you aren't reading or you aren't understanding; i prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt. You don't really seem to understand how things work around here and throw around all this **** like you do.

Again, if I don't know how things work it is due to lack of transparency regarding the MBR and MBR decisions. I've been working on limited information as to how the ruleset is created, and up until today, Cactuar never responded as to how the ruleset is actually created.

Btw, cactuar doesn't care if you don't like how the rules are decided. If you can come up with a better end result (ei, a better rule) he will consider it. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind because you don't like him/the MBR/the government/the illuminati/whatever.

Dismissing my concerns as conspiratorial is pretty immature.

Also the limited input from non-MBR members is because pretty much anyone who is worth having a discussion with is already in the MBR. Its not that he doesn't look at non-MBR members for input, its that they generally have less constructive content.

I said something un-PC and you are trying to make me sterilize it. I understand but i don't really care.

It's not that you said something "un-PC" (aka offensive). It's that what you said is blatantly false. How many MBR members are there? 50, 100? There are 118,491 Smashboards members. Obviously a much smaller number is active, and a smaller number highly active in the Melee boards. I don't know exactly how many of these people are "worth having a discussion with" but I am pretty sure the number is just as large as the number of MBR members, and probably higher. It's undoubtedly true that MBR members on average have more constructive input than non-MBR members, but there are vastly more non-MBR members so there should be a large enough subset that there are still many who have constructive input.

Personally I have contributed a lot to Smash (new techniques, frame data, etc.) yet somehow I doubt I would be accepted to the MBR because their idea of a worthwhile member seems to be "Hosts large tournaments and/or places high in large tournaments."

By the way, why should a non-MBR member such as myself bother to try to discuss things intelligently with you MBR elites if you just consider us not worthwhile? I mean Cactuar said I was not worthy of his time (which he sort of apologized for, but still), and then you one up him by saying basically all non MBR members are not worthy of your (or Cactuar's) time. Nice.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I said no such thing. Cactuar said no such thing. Again you misunderstand the meaning behind the words. For example, cactuar said he doesn't read your posts (or w/e he said) because of the way you presented your stuff. You could have told him the meaning of life and he wouldn't have read because of the way you presented your stuff, and thats his choice.

Again, please go back, look past the insults or w/e you perceive them to be, and look at the meaning of the words. That was the intent of that post and you seemed to miss it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I would vouch for shai for the mbr

shai dropping

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Sveet, I think Shai's point is that even though you tried to only loosely define some general trend that MBR members are worth have a discussion with and non-MBR members are not, you can't behave as if there is no connection between the general trend and the specific instances that make it up.

I'd like to ask (not necessarily on Shai's behalf): Do you consider Shai worth having a discussion with? Kal? Me? You don't have to answer, nor do you have to justify your answers, I just want to know.

 

[Kal]

Hey, don't bring me into this! I'd like, for once, to just be an observer. >_>

 

[Divinokage]

Just came to say that Killua is ****ing awesome.

 

[JPOBS]

F*** you stuck up MBR *******s. I'm leading a revolt of the proletariat.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'd like to ask (not necessarily on Shai's behalf): Do you consider Shai worth having a discussion with? Kal? Me? You don't have to answer, nor do you have to justify your answers, I just want to know.

I'll answer your question with a question, have I ever refused to have a discussion with anyone?

 

[Bing]

Sveet do you love me?

Discuss.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just came to say that Killua is ****ing awesome.

Hell yeah! Didn't know you were a HxH fan! Its one of my fav animes!

F*** you stuck up MBR *******s. I'm leading a revolt of the proletariat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-gHVGOoE48

Sveet do you love me?

Discuss.

I'm still a little shy... can we take this to aim

 

[Bing]

hmm.. I suppose so..

But I forget my aim because I only had it for convience to Doll...

*Creates seperate aim for Sveet*

 

[Bones0]

While I'm not the one who accepts and rejects applications, I have noticed a pattern. If you are worth having a discussion with about melee, and you apply to the MBR, you will get in. Look at KishPrime a year ago. I'll be honest, I was shocked at first when he was accepted into the MBR. He hadn't played the game in 5 years and wasn't part of the scene. But then it came time to discuss rules and he was one of the best posters in the BR. Sometimes people who are "worth having a discussion with" are unrecognized and thus aren't in the MBR. Sometimes they haven't applied (like in your case, Kal). Sometimes people who are generally not worth having a discussion with have a spark of a good idea. Then there are people who make me facepalm when they post.

I posted an extensive application, and no one even PMed me to lmk that I was denied...

I guess I'm just not worth having a discussion with. >_>

 

[Kal]

It's that cornflower blue text. Get yourself noticed. Use yellow.

 

[Divinokage]

You mad Bones? Though I'm not the one in charge of non-canadians. =P Just remember whatever you are feeling right now is your own fault.

 

[Bones0]

It's that cornflower blue text. Get yourself noticed. Use yellow.

They didn't even have colored text back then.

@Kage
Idk what you're even talking about, but you seem upset...