Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You really have to ask me that?

Yes.

10stus.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Why is that?

Focus. You have a lot to respond to, and him agreeing with it is the least of your worries.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It is a worry when I want him dead the mostest.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

It is a worry when I want him dead the mostest.

I'll let you know when you're in a position to push a read. Til then, you have a lot you're working very hard to not answer.

 

[#HBC | J]

Glyph posting walls? I really gotta finish reading. May be done in a while, just got back from plans today. ;P

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[4] Jdietz43: Dark Horse / Pink Lemonade / Nabe / Яagnarock
[3] J: WashedLaundry / adumbrodeus / Kary
[1] Blazer: Red Ruy
[1] Kary: -Masquerain-
[1] Red Ruy: DtJ Glyphmoney

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] adumbrodeus
[0] Яagnarock
[0] Dark Horse
[0] DtJ Glyphmoney
[0] Nabe
[0] WashedLaundry
[0] Fynal
[0] Pink Lemonade

[4] Not Voting: Blazer / Fynal / Jdietz43 / J

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch!
_

Declared V/LAs:

• Jdietz43 [until today]

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I liked glyph's case on RR, but it's not the direction we need right now. Glyph, join us on Ditz?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll let you know when you're in a position to push a read. Til then, you have a lot you're working very hard to not answer.

Your not Swiss.

Therefore you don't tell me what to do

(getting to it)

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Interesting proposal. I have Dietz as a town read, so I'd need to actually re-read before I committed to that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Huh. Is that so? Because you know what I just saw? Adumb responding to a prod. You know how you get prods? Being inactive.

And guess what, he's not the only other inactive outside of myself. And yet, you only have eyes for me. I guess its flattering in a way.

Adumb at least posted content on D1 and all of the others didn't actively prod dodge. V/LAs are not my worries unless it is a consistent problem, you were posting in thread like you didn't remember your reads.

Adumb and co had something to work off of, you didn't. Hense my concern and want for your death via vig shot.

Yeah it really jumped out at you huh. That must be why you responded to it so quickly.

Oh, wait, you didn't even mention it until a day into D2. Out of nowhere. Sudden clarity I suppose.

Not really, a night phase passed and you still didn't offer anything to the thread nor elaborated on your reads.

Tis a magical place

How long have you been in there out of curiosity? Seems like a swag backroom.

First off, the post in question is not directed at any player. Its just you saying 'oh my gosh guys, that glyph guy right?! Wasn't he supposed to do something? I don't know!'

Reminders are helpful.

And yes I wanted some attention on you.

There is no town motive in doing that. Zero. That's just trying to incriminate someone else without leaving a trail back to yourself. And you don't even ask for reads! Here is the exact quote, for those who may have lost it in the back and forth.

Except my post and the later ones were there making it very clear I wanted something done about you. There was a trail and it is my stance I didn't want an actively useless Glyph sitting in the background.

Okay apparently I wasn't clear enough in laying this out the first time? In my first post, I said RR/DH scum. You are RR. In your (eventual) response, you don't even address the fact that I've called you scum for no reason. But you're real worried about poor old DH.

DH is one of my strongest town reads and others shared that read, you came in with a scum read out of nowhere.

I could understand maybe one on me since I really wasn't posting anything big on D1, others thought so, though a lot of this was listening to Swiss and giving it a try with him asking me for my vote.

If you were worried about me dodging Swiss, why didn't you say 'hey glyph, stop dodging the question and elaborate on those reads' instead of 'ohhhhhhhh man guys I don't think Glyph ever did what he was supposed to!'

(because you're scum)

Why does this matter with wording? Neither is indicative of alignment.

LOL. I 'pretty much admit'. Okay. So then RR, WHY did you want to see how others were gonna handle me? Why was that such a major concern at the time?

If people aren't going to post the only alternative is to get people to try and comment on them off what they did post and what they think we should do with them.

If you were vigged I could draw something from that on other players if you never posted. This way vigging you wouldn't be a complete blank slate in reads.

Washed made a comment on you about being null, but didn't seem to have a game plan, heck he even made a similar comment like I did on you with, "Glyfe you gonna cool your way into D3/4" where he was concerned with what you were doing. But then placed you as null with no plan on what to do, I wanted to press him on this a bit.

That's there to keep you going where I want you to go. I don't want you doubling back on yourself, so I went ahead and herded you like a watchful guardian spirit.

Oh my gosh, the number #1 spot?! I don't even know who to thank. Nevermind shooting scummy people, its those damn inactives that gotta go. Especially the ones who rarely play early game, they're the worst!

I did this in Shining Force and got a lot of flak for it post game by Swiss, Vanz, and others.

No Lynch was scummy for defending Deitz so hard that they tried everything they could to lynch me over him, I didn't hesitate to pull the tigger on that slot, literally took 30 seconds after reading the flip to send the PM to Vanz.

The thing is, I was wrong and even then vigging those slots doesn't always work out too well unless it is bluntly obvious they are scum.

So I went back to my old style I used to have when I got vig and shoot inactives or useless players, you were one of my vig picks in Ryker mafia next to Soup.

Inactives are a hindrance and waste a lynch, vig shots are better to pick them off since it removes slots people are afraid to lynch since they have no info attached to them and scum won't touch them.

So no, it really depends on context and I believe vig should shoot inactives first over scum reads.

Then again you agreed in quick shooting EE in MP2 before he posted anything so mfw.

He was pretty clear that the null read would change as the game went on. Rather than just kill things he doesn't understand, Laundry opts to take that oh so forlorn 'actually playing mafia' route.

Didn't come off to me that way.

I read it as a comment about you as null but still not sure what the direction to take on you was at the time.

Sure town would be concerned, but they also wouldn't dwell on it past the initial posting of it. There's more important **** to worry about. But considering you're the only person to be so panicked about it, its pretty obvious what the answer is to your question. You're the one who brought it up out of nowhere. You're the one who kept pushing at killing my slot.

I've been working on other things as well like Blazer, J, and other reads. Your not my main concern, but still a concern due to your activity with posts.

I bought up the first out of nowhere, I'll reread to make sure later, but the latter two quotes were after you posted nothing twice as a prod dodge.

I wanted you vigged because you were actively doing nothing.

So I'll wrap this last bit up with a question. RR, what's your read on me? Why?

That's something I'm thinking about right now reading this.

I think this case is a load, but the intent is what I'm more interested in.

I don't like your OMGUS approach with this, because others like Swiss and Kary wanted you to do something as well but you didn't til now. It doesn't make sense to me in looking at alignment since I can't see it narrowing down a read off your initial case and reads.

I like you posts after your initial case because it gives me a better view where you are coming from, it makes me think you were looking for something with the responses instead of trying ti push a lynch, to push a lynch.

If I has to pick a side right now it would be scum read on you but I wanna keep this going a bit an see what you say and give me.

~

Glyph, talk to me about Adumb, Blazer, Kary, and Deitz when they jumped on Swiss.

I don't like any of the jumps but Kary's, though I feel Kary is better at getting his mindset across and is why I found him to be more ok despite the bad jump.

I don't understand what Deitz was saying with his quotes earlier so I'm not sure I wanna vote him yet, I had him as null on D1.

Blazer is my #1 scum pick as it stands.

Adumb is leaning scum.

Tell me about these players and what you think of them off what they did today.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Mod: Can you add the deadline to each of your votecounts from this post on?

 

[Jdietz43]

Back from the wedding (was lovely)

Will catch up when I settle in from the long trip

 

[Jdietz43]

Apparently bad things happened to Swiss... (or he did bad things?) be ok bro.



For all of those of you wondering, my push on Swiss was weak as piss intentionally to see how things would go both from him and from bystanders. I figured if I was going to be gone forever I might as well create controversy to make reads from. Make no mistake that I was sincere in suspicion that he could still be scum, but the lack of vote and only light hinting of a case was intentional.



I take J's lack of voting me yet as a scumtell. (hahahaha-always tunnels me endlessly it's so fun...)


PS: Reading is for suckers: none of any of this is informed whatsoever by the latest events

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm not votin till I caught up and I'm not sure if I am even having you as a scum-read yet because I'm not read up.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

For all of those of you wondering, my push on Swiss was weak as piss intentionally to see how things would go both from him and from bystanders. I figured if I was going to be gone forever I might as well create controversy to make reads from. Make no mistake that I was sincere in suspicion that he could still be scum, but the lack of vote and only light hinting of a case was intentional.

No, this is bull****. JDietz I know you get tunneled by me a lot but this is a blatant excuse.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

So what did you get out of it?

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm not votin till I caught up and I'm not sure if I am even having you as a scum-read yet because I'm not read up.

Yep, scum. J would already be voting me by now.

No, this is bull****. JDietz I know you get tunneled by me a lot but this is a blatant excuse.

And I take your response to it as a town tell.
I've done stupider in the past and will again in the future. I'm just glad I got some responses while away.

So what did you get out of it?

Well we got reactions, and some votes following to examine (particularly Adumb and Washed) as well as more insight into Kary and Blazin. Still catching up of course, but it looks like a good turnout on a cursory look. Still on page 16 (takin' tabs)

 

[Blazer]

/Replace out.

With school, training, running another mafia game, and work, I just barely have time to read anything in this game. I'll try playing again some time when I've got the time.

 

[Jdietz43]

Ok: technically finished reading, mind a nice mess.

Unsure how to take RR vs. Glyph right now, opinion to come as it fleshes itself out.

Don't like Adumb voting Swiss after seeing apparent support without additional reasons, unsure of Washed. As someone who had lingering suspicions of a scum in the Adumb/Toastin/Swiss triangle I can see how he would be under scrutiny (and personally wouldn't mind said to erase doubt), but I don't like that they followed so fast for so little when I didn't even vote.

@Washed: What exactly were/are you voting Swiss for if you had to sum it up in three sentences or less. (Is his vote on Kary the only reason, or is there more?) Why do you like Nabe?

Kary has become more shaky lately, needs a reread to follow. I'm interested in why Swiss felt threatened by Kary. After it became clear Kary was unsure of Swiss, his own opinion changed to reflect that culminating in a vote. In reading that offhand before leaving I couldn't find a ready explanation for it. Kary's push on Swiss is bad and not well thought out: working off hindsight, but why react so intensely in Swiss's situation, so much as to accuse me and Kary of being a scum-team for my passing dig, which in all respects was very mild and was even prefaced as discussion. Barring an investigative result I see no overt reason.

I feel that Blazin has more noobscum than noobtown in him since I left, he has done no active work to clear himself nor contribute anything other than "that's ok I think" and "I'm not sure.

It does look bad on him that Kuz was after him and he was the only person confirmed townie besides FF (Who also hinted at suspecting Swiss)

That's far from enough to call him mafia and bandwagon him though imo.

I dislike that he twisted FF's intentions to weakly incriminate Swiss here while discrediting his own input. FF did not have a particular opinion on any matter iirc, and him dying first seems to me like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I could see him as a lynch choice today to clear our heads.


Glyph: Are both of these statements true, do you claim to have a legitimate town read on me and do you feel positively about a Swiss (now J) push. What of your DH and Soup reads?

Expect at least one more post from me by tonight.

Really not a fan of dropped Swiss wagon after he replaced out.

Interesting proposal. I have Dietz as a town read, so I'd need to actually re-read before I committed to that.

@RR:

Jay, how does that line up?

I'm confused by what you are saying.

Just something I observed to generate controversy in my absence. I make mild light of Swiss changing his stance on Kary to see how people would take it. Some took it as an attack and support of a Swiss wagon, some did not.


@DH: Why do you assume it is an attack on Swiss when I preface it as "food for thought and discussion before I go".

Ditz is scum. His 558 is disgusting, and he doesn't actually conclude anything from that post. A poor attack on swiss, after swiss is already being attacked

Vote: Ditz

@PL: I asked people to talk about those I was most unsure of, in this case also directly asking the people I was unsure of (Swiss/Adum/Fynal/Nabe/Soup). Me getting stated reads to compare to my internal gut reads is one of the easiest ways I've found of forming an idea of alignment. Asking questions seemed like the best way to get back in the game and have some real reads after being under too much scrutiny to hunt properly. Unfortunately no one responded before or after I left.



@Soup:

Curious, does anyone think Ditz/Swiss could be a team?

What makes you suggest this?

Spoiler

Joey, you are the only one who seems to understand a hint of why and how I say what I say when I say it: and that's awesome. My subtleties are apparently lost on the masses XD

And please respond to these questions people, I'm still sitting with not that many solid reads and keeping quiet when I ask things of you doesn't help me sort them out. Not having reads keeps me at this prodding stage, and it's getting worse instead of better as we go.

 

[#HBC | J]

I don't get Ditzy, he is literally asking me to vote him and lynch him or else I'm scum...?

I'm so lost but whatever, finally have internet again. Creepy that it went out during watching Silent Hill but came back after I finished. Anyways, probably nothing but gonna get to this game now.

 

[Jdietz43]

And Blazer is out: unsure how to feel about that, and would like his slot gone as too big a doubt factor in all honestly. We probably won't have that luxury though.


No votes until I get more situated.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gosh darn ninjas.

And you wonder why I hate you.

 

[Jdietz43]

I don't get Ditzy, he is literally asking me to vote him and lynch him or else I'm scum...?

Humor J: It's humor.


I'm kind of concerned you're pushing this however, you recognized it as a joke earlier when I laughed about your constant tunnel of me in games prior. What made you think this changed?

 

[Jdietz43]

Gosh darn ninjas.

And you wonder why I hate you.

You lie: You love me most of all... but you're afraid of what might happen if you ever catch up to me. :3

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh wow I didn't get it was a joke. Sorry for my stupidity. I thought you were seriously pushing the issue. xD

Ditzy, who should die? Your vote is no where but you just had a big post filled with stuffs.

 

[Jdietz43]

Oh wow I didn't get it was a joke. Sorry for my stupidity. I thought you were seriously pushing the issue. xD

Ditzy, who should die? Your vote is no where but you just had a big post filled with stuffs.

No votes until I get more situated.

I would however be susceptible to debate on the merits of a push on you/Adumb/RR/Glyph/Blazer.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Hey J, sorry you had to replace into a scum slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

Glyph? No one has really been pushing him nor even voting him and the like. The only thing I recall with Glyph is that he is pushing RR at the current time (which I've yet to read) and RR isn't even cross-voting him back. Is it purely because of the RR vs. Glyph thing?

 

[#HBC | J]

Hey J, sorry you had to replace into a scum slot.

But I didn't replace your slot....?

 

[adumbrodeus]

Well then you'd be town wouldn't you?


Glyph vs RR reads tvt first glance, rereading it carefully, but nice to see glyph finally in the game!

Dark horse is still scum but, priorities.

Washed is a townbro.

Doublechecking on my noobtown reads, but if I can confirm them this game is gonna be a simple process of elimination.

 

[Dooms]

Adumb, do you plan on saying anything about why he's scum that isn't meta so you can actually start any form of decent wagon on him?

You're looking like **** after that town Kuz flip. I'd suggest actually building up a case.

 

[#HBC | J]

DH is scum? Since when. This game and the players are switched to what I thought it would be like.

Wait, Adumb just solely uses meta in his arguments this game?

He should probably burn.

 

[Dooms]

Let me find the post I'm referencing...

Swiss, we are gonna be at each other throats, you know what that means.


Swiss is scum, blazer is showing noobtown so hard it literally hurts. Most players I would believe would mistake this for scumtells.

Swiss would not. No, I don't think I'm giving him too much credit here.


BTW, the answer I was expecting was you to go for was "I was supporting this in order to get a read on somebody else", I was really expecting you to be town, or at the very least, less transparent about it.

Vote: Swiss

This is what I mean by using meta. You saw what he went after with Kuz. Now it seems like he's trying to do something similar, just replacing Kuz with Swiss.

 

[#HBC | J]

That's....incredibly nasty, weak and reaching for a reason to call Swiss scum. It's also uncanny to the similar way he tried to call KuziScum D1 from what I have actually read.

I'm gonna read more and I was abstaining from voting till I got more caught up but for now just from that post:

Vote: Adumbrodeus

 

[adumbrodeus]

So J, thanks for absolutely confirming my scumread on your slot.


Because remember the many times I've pointed out that meta is pretty much the only thing that matters when differentiating town from scum? And that no tell is consistent across players, you only have vague generalities that sometimes apply and sometimes don't?


There's no way if you were actually town you would view using meta as a basis as inherently scummy because you know that's how I always think, you know better then this j.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually I don't remember that. (the meta thing) because if I did I would probably have a little side-conversation with you to express that meta is a terrible reason to call someone scum-town because of the fact of how flimsy and easily it can be changed to appeal to what the certain "meta" someone has.

Yes, actually I do find meta as weak and reaching reasoning, especially when it seems to be the sole basis of your entire case on Swiss and was your basis on Kuzi, which I might add was completely wrong. The fact that you are using meta isn't scummy, it's that you are trying to just only use meta and make it the biggest point of your case which is scummy because it's a terrible point, plus I'm not Swiss so any Swiss meta does not match me and the way you are trying to hold me to a pedastal of "knowing better" is also not true because if you knew about my philosophy on mafia, meta is only the bare minimum of cases/accusations because of how flimsy it is.

 

[Dooms]

lol.

Vote: Adumb

Yeah, this is where my vote belongs.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Actually I don't remember that. (the meta thing) because if I did I would probably have a little side-conversation with you to express that meta is a terrible reason to call someone scum-town because of the fact of how flimsy and easily it can be changed to appeal to what the certain "meta" someone has.

Yes, actually I do find meta as weak and reaching reasoning, especially when it seems to be the sole basis of your entire case on Swiss and was your basis on Kuzi, which I might add was completely wrong. The fact that you are using meta isn't scummy, it's that you are trying to just only use meta and make it the biggest point of your case which is scummy because it's a terrible point, plus I'm not Swiss so any Swiss meta does not match me and the way you are trying to hold me to a pedastal of "knowing better" is also not true because if you knew about my philosophy on mafia, meta is only the bare minimum of cases/accusations because of how flimsy it is.

Yes, that was exactly the conversation we've had a couple of times.

The thing is, for the purposes of whether or not I'm scum, it doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong, it matters WHETHER I BELIEVE I'M RIGHT OR NOT.

You know I believe I'm right, you might consider it weak, you'd know it wasn't scummy.

 

[#HBC | J]

Dude, we haven't talked in over a year or so. ;P

I also got entirely lost in the last two sentences and have no idea what you are saying because of the way those sentences were formed.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not buying it, we just played in a game together. Granted I was forced to imitate this mode of thinking in that game, but it should definitely have clued you in if you forgot.