Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[Jdietz43]

Well I have nothing to say because I had nothing to contribute. Kinda sucks that it turned out the way it did for Town. I don't really have a congratulations or good job for Mafia because I wasn't around enough to to appreciate their play or whatever.

There was nothing I could do to get a lynch on Nabe I guess.

You could have asked for an extension, but you turned down the opportunity. Had there been one I would have been around to make my planned Nabe push. In 20-20 hindsight PL would not have followed on to Nabe most likely since they already had his role given, but it would have made a difference.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You probably don't read Chinese My role was actually 7-shot and I had to use it on myself to get into any of three potential QTs.

7-shot something is fine, bro.

But no-one is 4-shot anything.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: hahaha, yeah, that's you getting in my head from asking "Can u watch me blah blah watcher watcher?" a bunch of times. I would have handwaved it as such and replaced it with the 'correct' follow upon it being pointed out.

Gotta be careful; as town I'd make you answer 20 questions for a hand-wave like that. Slash don't post at late times of the day

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

7-shot something is fine, bro.

But no-one is 4-shot anything.

what why

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Also @Krys: I thought you did fine in a tough spot, and personally it made me really happy that someone could see scumNabe.

 

[Jdietz43]

Gotta be careful; as town I'd make you answer 20 questions for a hand-wave like that. Slash don't post at late times of the day

It's ok. If we had it our way you'd have been too busy being dead to notice

 

[Kataefi]

Here are the night actions! I had my little spreadsheet at work but I don't have access to this so i'm relying on my trusty notepad doc:

[COLLAPSE="Night Actions"]NIGHT 1
- Swiss kills Frozen [SUCCESS]
- Nabe invites himself and Laundry to World Chocolate Wonderland [SUCCESS] //
- Dietz tracks Deus [SUCCESS] Deus targeted nobody //
- Kary flirts with Pink Lemonade [SUCCESS] Mystery woman flirts with them //
--> Kary steals nothing //
- Soup line taps Kary [FAIL] Kary can't be targeted //
- Pink Lemonade blocks soup
- Fynal signals Swiss [SUCCESS] No result as Kary wasn't tapped. //

NIGHT 2
- J kills Kary [FAIL] Kary is immune to Night actions //
- Nabe invites Pink Lemonade to WCW and himself and Masquerain to Ethnic Gardens [SUCCESS] //
- Pink Lemonade roleblocks Red Ryu [SUCCESS] // Nothing to role block //
- Dietz tracks J [SUCCESS] J targets Kary //
--> As Kary also targets J, Dietz gets a mystery woman result //
- Kary flirts with J [SUCCESS] Mystery woman flirts with him //
--> Kary steals nothing //
- Soup lines taps Fynal [SUCCESS] Fynal cannot communicate with anyone else outside the game thread //
--> Fynal is TAPPED and has an electrical tap on him //
- Fynal signals Dietz [SUCCESS] No result as Fynal cannot communicate outside the game thread //

NIGHT 3
- Nabe kills Soup [SUCCESS] //
- Nabe invites Dietz to Ethnic Gardens [SUCCESS] //
- Pink Lemonade roleblocks Dietz [SUCCESS] //
- Dietz tracks Nabe [FAIL] // Dietz tracks no one //
- Kary flirts with Krystedez [SUCCESS] //
--> Kary steals nothing //
- Soup line taps Laundry [SUCCESS] //
--> Laundry is electrically tapped //
- Fynal signals Red Ryu [SUCCESS] //
--> Soup dies, no claimed results >>> Fynal receives distress signal and learns Soup's *attempted* targets but learns one of them failed. He starts attracting taps D3.
___

NIGHT 4
- Fynal taps Glyph // Signals Nabe [SUCCESS]
--> Fynal receives result #1
- Pink lemonade roleblocks Dietz [SUCCESS]
- Nabe kills Kary [FAIL]
- Kary flirts with Glyph
--> Kary has as opportunity to steal [ELECTRICAL TAP] // He refuses.
--> As Glyph is tapped, Kary becomes tapped.
- Glyph receives mystery woman flavour.
___

NIGHT 5
- Dietz targets Dark Horse [FAIL] // he was roleblocked
- Kary flirts with Bardull
--> removes his ability to see results.
--> - Bardull receives mystery woman flavour
- Lemonade blocks Dietz [SUCCESS]
- Nabe shoots Dark Horse [SUCCESS]
- Bardull puts tap on washed [SUCCESS]
--> washed is tapped twice
- Bardull signals Kary [FAIL] // no result as kary can't be targeted.

__

Night 6 - OVAH (Nabe kills Krystedez)[/COLLAPSE]

 

[#HBC | Kary]

what why

I want to say aesthetics, because 4 isn't a nice number.
IMO shots tend to come in odd numbers.

But it's probably also natural balance of mechanics. If you're going to make a role X-shot, it must be worth limiting in some way. 4-shots gives too much freedom and unless you're BP/unlynchable and so going to live a long time, it doesn't really give you any incentive not to use a shot each night.

That's my general feeling, anyway.

 

[Kataefi]

Here's my take on some of the decisions i made:

Alright so firstly I need to talk about the hammer mechanic. This was the doctor. I thought this was interesting, particularly in this setup, because there are 3 different parties that would be aiming to fight for champ status and I wanted to see the dynamics behind this. Town PRs would be interested in taking the hammer, likewise the traitors would be interested as to be less at risk of being killed by their own faction, and again the indies would be interested to maintain their own survival.

Also this mechanic is a subtle investigative. Nobody ever asked why X was still alive, or why X didn't want to take the hammer. Glyph noticed this behaviour and I think it was definitely something that could have generated some useful discussion for Town. An example is Pink Lemonade, who everyone thought was Town, didn't seem to be at risk of the Night kill and didn't feel like hammering... players that fell into that category I feel should have been scrutinised a little more...

TOWN:

Line Tapper
- This was an obscure cop. He detects if people can and can't communicate with anyone else. If there was one scum remaining, he wouldn't be able to detect them. Having 3 pairs of anti-town I thought was good here because if one dies, the line tapper wouldn't be able to detect the other. Likewise though if the inviter plays well and invites the scum team, the line tapper essentially turns into a cop. So the ability to coordinate with all fellow scummies vs a line tapper that gets better as a result I thought was a good tradeoff here.

Satellite [IN DISREPAIR]
- This originally was going to attract outside communication and see what was being spoken, but I had last minute blues and instead changed it slightly. It functions as normal but it's results will always be "processing" as numbers forever until it dies, where suddenly all that processing data spills into the thread, revealing what's behind the numbers with every votecount (this didn't happen).

It gets buffed considerably when the line tapper dies by receiving the role's attempted targets (at the cost of exploding itself and another townie should it claim any of this info). The reason I chose attempted targets was because I aimed this info to be as wishy washy as possible for the sake of scumhunting. I used this backup functionality because I didn't want Town to rely on 1 PR but at the same time I didn't want 2 normal Town PRs because by my standards I swear that's OP!

edit: also, the reason it was gonna explode, was because I wanted to see how far people would push this role on an obscure claim to spill this type of valuable information, which was cool to see Round 6.

Overall I think the Town faction was actually the strongest faction. Bear in mind, Soup had a guilty on washed coming into Round 4, and Bardull had 2 scum nailed from his role. I think Town's demise was being lazy and not being invested in the game most definitely. For example, Krystedez had REALLY GOOD READS... yet was a complete non-entity. Fynal also had good reads and had Nabe/Washed pinned just before he had to replace, which was a big shame but Bardull picked up the pieces nicely and had the right play in mind Round 6, just didn't have the oomph behind that read to make an impact (I think this was a result of him being a replacement...)

MAFIA:

Inviter
- Pretty self-explanatory. Can send out mass invitations to people in 1 of 3 quicktopics of its choice. This use was intended to bring the 2 scum teams together, but could also be used as a framer to target townies with or as a means of diluting the line tapper's results in a way that could make them unreliable. This role was intended to be a short fuse should it ever claim, because it opposes both the satellite and line tapper by creating communication, whereas these roles intended to seek communication! I was very surprised to find this wasn't something anyone considered when the mass claim happened!

Role Blocker
- Pretty standard.

This faction being divided into 2 was a pretty significant nerf from the get go. A) Limiting coordination and B) there's potential to kill the traitorous team off. This in line with an investigative, a backup one, and an indy tracker interested in taking them down makes for an interesting time. The inviter was created to bridge the gap between these 2 groups, and it paid off well when Nabe made a great read sussing out who were the traitors as early as N1.

INDEPENDENTS:

Honey Trapper
- This is a hider/thief that leaves behind a specific flavour that is self-disadvantageous. It has the exact utility of a hider but can hide behind scum. If its target is also targeted, then the trapper is targeted. This is what happened when Kary targeted Glyph. On the plus side, it can detect items and steal them for different effects in the game. It could detect physical possessions only - those were taps/invites and then "???s", which are items related to people's roles. This is offset by the role blocker as it doesn't produce anything physical to steal, so this role as an investigative was unreliable and I think Kary was aware of that.

The trapper doesn't know what certain items are and is forced to take them to learn more at the cost of leaving a bad trail (like we saw with BardulL on D6). "Curiosity kills the cat!" was what I had in mind with this. As for the items:

- Electrical taps: can be spread around to confuse roles that pick up communucation.
- Invitations: could be taken to shut off outside communication and given to other players, stirring up a whole bunch of WIFOM.
- ??? #1 (Satellite Storage Device) - takes the satellite's storage device and receives its results. It would be able to force the Satellite to make a Night action and observe the outcome.
- ??? #2 (Line Tapper's most recent result) - pretty self-explanatory.
- ??? #3 (Empty Invitation) - takes one of the inviter's invitations, which can be used to invite anyone in a QT it is wary of.

As a sidenote: if this was targeted indirectly by Nabe... it would have ended up in World Chocolate Wonderland under the guise of a "Mystery Woman", so Kary would have had to sign in to the QT as this flavour and start posting as an anonymous entity!

Intelligent Tracker
- A tracker that gets its result before the night ends. I didn't expect this role to be claimed as easily as it did, as it puts it in jeopardy of the night kill which is something the indies really don't want considering they are outnumbered and outgunned.

This faction was ultimately hard to play. A lot of scenarios could have played out. But I thought Kary and Dietz handled their roles very well. I'll get to player comments in a second.

 

[Krystedez]

You could have asked for an extension, but you turned down the opportunity. Had there been one I would have been around to make my planned Nabe push. In 20-20 hindsight PL would not have followed on to Nabe most likely since they already had his role given, but it would have made a difference.

You're right. I wasn't sure what to do in the situation. I asked town and didn't get an answer, then PL went for the KO. Ladeedoodoo

Also @Krys: I thought you did fine in a tough spot, and personally it made me really happy that someone could see scumNabe.

Yeah I saw it somewhat, it really helped clarify things when I looked at PL's recent post and a few others, that it had to be between nabe / dietz / you, then your posts clarified you as Indy pretty much. It made no sense why Nabe made the argument that you had to be mafia because you were pushing him hard, at least to me. But that's fine.

I look forward to playing with you all again, hopefully on better grounds haha. GG.

 

[Krystedez]

@Kat

I apologize for my weakness in replacing. I will from now on keep this as a learning experience, as to not grief/handicap future factions I'm apart of. Thanks for dealing with me and only giving me two prods.

 

[Jdietz43]

This faction was ultimately hard to play. A lot of scenarios could have played out. But I thought Kary and Dietz handled their roles very well. I'll get to player comments in a second.

*high fives Kary*

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Also this mechanic is a subtle investigative. Nobody ever asked why X was still alive, or why X didn't want to take the hammer.

I did some of this, but didn't think it was worth outing. Soup was an obvious PR candidate given him swooping to a hammer D1, for instance.
Also, my push on Nabe to hammer D4 after Ditzy outed him as a PR was intended to help me read Nabe, and to push a pro-town agenda.
I specifically didn't want to hammer as a rule because I was going to claim either Even Night Commuter or VT, neither of which particularly need immunity.

An example is Pink Lemonade, who everyone thought was Town, didn't seem to be at risk of the Night kill and didn't feel like hammering... players that fell into that category I feel should have been scrutinised a little more...

If they'd claimed it would've been interesting. I just took it as a VT tell really.

Satellite [IN DISREPAIR]
This originally was going to attract outside communication and see what was being spoken, but I had last minute blues and instead changed it slightly. It functions as normal but it's results will always be "processing" as numbers forever until it dies, where suddenly all that processing data spills into the thread, revealing what's behind the numbers with every votecount (this didn't happen).

This role is a really cool idea, but IMO it didn't work as it should've.
I could write loads about it but basically I think it doesn't work well enough on its own/without knowing where the taps may be. All it really learns is that there are some people in multiple conversations.

edit: also, the reason it was gonna explode, was because I wanted to see how far people would push this role on an obscure claim to spill this type of valuable information, which was cool to see Round 6.

Claiming Soup's results vs. exploding seems like a reasonable trade. But how were you going to adjudicate it? It seems too easy to get around IMO; as in 'ask me who I would've targeted if I were Soup'. I also felt like it would be unfair to whoever else was exploded.

Bardull had 2 scum nailed from his role.

Uh, did he? I'm pretty sure he knew there was scum between Washed/mystery woman.

This role was intended to be a short fuse should it ever claim, because it opposes both the satellite and line tapper by creating communication, whereas these roles intended to seek communication! I was very surprised to find this wasn't something anyone considered when the mass claim happened!

Just assumed that neighbourhood would be miller/safe claim for investigatives. Also, would some mafia have flipped traitor? Because otherwise I don't think it's obvious from the setup that there might be many many conversations taking place.

Role Blocker[/B]
- Pretty standard.

WAI NO ITEM TO STEAL/ HOW HE ROLEBLOCK?
also did PL know whether their roleblock N1 succeeded?

This is offset by the role blocker as it doesn't produce anything physical to steal, so this role as an investigative was unreliable and I think Kary was aware of that.

this was actually really weird. because i had no idea why i would want to move a line tap. and i never found any invites. I was basically hoping to steal guns and stuff from people. Also; what happened with me finally stealing the storage device? why no result for me?

so much confusion this game with night actions
i mean scum shot me twice for crying out loud

As a sidenote: if this was targeted indirectly by Nabe... it would have ended up in World Chocolate Wonderland under the guise of a "Mystery Woman", so Kary would have had to sign in to the QT as this flavour and start posting as an anonymous entity!

IF ONLY

Intelligent Tracker
- A tracker that gets its result before the night ends. I didn't expect this role to be claimed as easily as it did, as it puts it in jeopardy of the night kill which is something the indies really don't want considering they are outnumbered and outgunned.

awesome!! loved communicating about who to track then checking back in to see the results :D
should maybe have kept our bingo under wraps but ehhh

This faction was ultimately hard to play. A lot of scenarios could have played out. But I thought Kary and Dietz handled their roles very well. I'll get to player comments in a second.

*high fives JDietz*

 

[Kataefi]

player comments!

This town was painful! Omg what were you all thinking? I bet some of you secretly mercy /inned to get it out of the queue. A lot of you didn't seem all that invested so people's play looked quite lazy. You snooze you lose

TOWN:

Toastin' you were on fire early D1. And then you... vanished. It was bizarre! I think you could have been a driving force.

Deus you were cool but I think your inactivity caught up with you in the end and people saw you as lynch fodder.

Glyph you were cool. I do think you need to reign it in a little and share your onslaughts with others too!

Joey you had eternal v/la but you really picked it up in certain places, especially towards the end. Never trust Nabe...

Krystedez... now I didn't quite see the point. You signed up to replace in and did little. From the X number of posts you did make, I thought you had good ideas, reads - you could have been something else entirely. Take this as a lesson learned so you can **** in other games plz!

Ruy you were cool but plz don't let anyone have a free ride just because they're deemed a "good player". Always ask yourself, has this player found me scum? If not they're not credible... simples. The way you idolised Swiss early D1/D2 was odd to me.

Bardull, I think you're very good =o Your info was difficult to interpret but you did a good job. Laundry was absolutely the best play to make considering Dietz was blocked N3 onwards... so laundry must have been tapped and confirmed scum. Still, time was against you, as was those 38 pages Definitely play in moar games plz.

Soup you were solid as always! Shame you died as you were one of the actives that had their head screwed on.

Dark Horse... yeah you were cool too! Just need a bit more oomph in your questions to make more of an impact.

frozen... died N1
__

SCUM:

Washed you were great... at first. Then I don't know what happened... I think OS' game caught your interest more and you became invested in it.

Pink Lemonade... Ran what happened? I've never seen someone cower at the thought of being scum like that before. Being the bad guy sometimes is good July you were cool but you made 1 post every year so there's not much to say other than people shouldn't have let you cruise on by as long as you did.

J you were great. Such a shame you were caught out. I think you would have lasted a long time. The doc claim I thought was clevah but it got figured out too soon. I think you should have pushed the idea of being a doc a little more. Plus iirc no one died that Night, so there were tools to work with to try to wiggle out of that tough spot a little more. Awesome play as ever.

Nabe you clevah clevah scummie. My fave <3... you called the shots, you set up a scenario to go against Kary... you had Dietz and Joey wrapped around ur little finger (if only for a little bit). Your role was designed to die early yet you had the best survivability out of all the scummies... A big well done to you. I would be nominating you for MVP if your competition was a little more competitive.
_

INDIES:

Kary you are mariah SCARY. Even Nabe commented on how much effort you put into your posts to defend yourself. Round 6 was intense. I think people weren't ready for your reactions but over time people were realising that you weren't the right play (Bardull switching to laundry / Krystedez switching on Nabe), plus Dietz would have been by your side fighting your corner. There were tools to work with to secure a lynch that wasn't yourself but time sadly caught up with you, alongside a bunch of snoozers that figured things out too late... >_>

Nabe is 4-shot Neighbourizer Vigilante and wants me lynched because he thinks I'm Bulletproof Marker.

say that back to yourself slowly.

Who's scum, Nabe?

^This was also the best post (lol)

Dietz you were GREAT. Your claim gambit worked a charm, plus you caused mayhem in your neighbourhood. It was like a mafia game inside a mafia game... When you figured it all out, you started making a lot more sense... I think you needed to apply more force on Round 6, especially considering you were the most credible player there (netting 1 scum already)... there was definite momentum building against laundry and nabe that could have been taken advantage of imo but overall a really good job!

 

[Kataefi]

lol kary thy shall get to your comments in a bit.

 

[Dooms]

Really sorry about my play. I didn't try to be forever V/LA, and I'll be the first to admit that going V/LA during games makes me lose motivation a lot due to forgetting all of my reads altogether. Thank you for being a great mod, though! Loved the part of the game that I was around for! :D

 

[Jdietz43]

Dietz you were GREAT. Your claim gambit worked a charm, plus you caused mayhem in your neighbourhood. It was like a mafia game inside a mafia game... When you figured it all out, you started making a lot more sense... I think you needed to apply more force on Round 6, especially considering you were the most credible player there (netting 1 scum already)... there was definite momentum building against laundry and nabe that could have been taken advantage of imo but overall a really good job!

Thanks mang, I try my best.

I can tell you if my real life had gone differently there would have been added pressure, but at the point I was at I was trying to connect dots on PL scum before making the Nabe play when GMT said day over before I got back from real life commitments. Even then I wasn't sure if being too strongly anti-Kary lynch would paint me in a corner or not. It is what it is

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary you are mariah SCARY. Even Nabe commented on how much effort you put into your posts to defend yourself. Round 6 was intense. I think people weren't ready for your reactions but over time people were realising that you weren't the right play (Bardull switching to laundry / Krystedez switching on Nabe), plus Dietz would have been by your side fighting your corner. There were tools to work with to secure a lynch that wasn't yourself but time sadly caught up with you, alongside a bunch of snoozers that figured things out too late... >_>

Waiting on Laundry/PL to claim blatantly dragged out the Day, and no-one was really there to contribute
I knew Nabe was scum and was surprised no-one else could see it
He is pretty damn persuasive, though

On top of that, Bardull's claim threw me off completely because what he had claimed of his results didn't stack at all with what I knew about who'd been tapped, and that put me off swinging a WL lynch

^This was also the best post (lol)

I like to think my strengths in being RAH IN YOUR FACE are tempered by being able to put my point very simply
I guess I just need to work on easing people into my way of thinking, not hitting them over the head with it.

 

[ranmaru]

I can't believe Ran actually took part in this game. :O

Also Kata, you posted the Chinese version of my PM.

SCUM:

Pink Lemonade... Ran what happened? I've never seen someone cower at the thought of being scum like that before. Being the bad guy sometimes is good July you were cool but you made 1 post every year so there's not much to say other than people shouldn't have let you cruise on by as long as you did.

It's a mindset thing, or rather, a motivation thing. Really I KNEW I had to like at least give some reads or something but I just never got around to it. Then July was town in everyone's books. I just didn't feel like 'experimenting' as scum when we were in a good position. I was also distracted by other things. I also suck at lying I guess.

July was very busy with work and stuff so she has a legit reason to have been a bit 'not here'.

-------------

Anyways, I'm sorry everyone. I have %0.0000 credit in this win. Thank July for holding this hydra up. :3 Thank Nabe and July + WL for winning.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why did you guys kill me n3 just as I get something Washed

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

When you're town, you're obvtown, and you've gotta get ****ed outta here as a result. :r

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe you clevah clevah scummie. My fave <3... you called the shots, you set up a scenario to go against Kary... you had Dietz and Joey wrapped around ur little finger (if only for a little bit). Your role was designed to die early yet you had the best survivability out of all the scummies... A big well done to you. I would be nominating you for MVP if your competition was a little more competitive.

 

[Kantrip]

I know that feel. Awkward Moments... D: