Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[#HBC | J]

We just played in a game together, where we were both scum, together. I didn't really read your posts and you got shot N1 due to your play which you apparently "imitated" but if this is how you posted in PM64, I completely understand the shot now and one game does not just bring everything back, Adumb.

 

[Dooms]

Adumb, now you're just reaching. A lot.

-_-'.

Washed & Soup: Thoughts on Adumb's recent posts?

 

[adumbrodeus]

We just played in a game together, where we were both scum, together. I didn't really read your posts and you got shot N1 due to your play which you apparently "imitated" but if this is how you posted in PM64, I completely understand the shot now and one game does not just bring everything back, Adumb.

Well, I was less audacious, but that's besides the point.


You're literally making every excuse to not remember how I think, people's styles don't just vanish overnight, and you're a good enough scum player that you know better then to not pay attention to what your scummates post.

No J, you're scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

I'm going back to reading the game. I'm seeing this is a lost cause to try and debate haha.

Adumb, I'm not making excuses, I literally have no idea what your talking about.

 

[adumbrodeus]

And what exactly will your reading consist of?

 

[#HBC | J]

Pages 8-now.

 

[#HBC | J]

Hi again, finished reading finally and have some updated thoughts and some promises I wish to fufill now.

So nothing really stuck out too too much in the rest of the posts throughout the day-toDay so I will not be going into that much detail but I want to highlight a couple of posts specifcally.

I would like to talk about Ditzy first because I feel I am finally made a decision onto which side of the fence I plan to make my camp in that argument and it is that I feel Ditzy is leaning more town in this game. His thought process, although a bit arbritarily flawed, I don't see scum intent in his posts. A good example of why I think Ditzy is town is heavily because of his posting string between 299-301. He went into a great amount of detail to explain his scum-read on Kuzi and backed it up with a thought process that wasn't that bad. I don't really get the point that he was trying to make coming into this day-phase with being content with not doing anything really besides just "Point a few things out and duck away" because that is exactly what he did at the beginning of the phase w.r.t. his Swiss read. Doesn't read as scummy, reads more as dummy to me (apologies). Someone said it earlier (it may have been Ditzy himself but I agreed to it), people jumped on Ditzy for an easy reason that wasn't that scummy but more just anti-town which I guess I would say Ditzy leans more into. He just doesn't seem to have an interest in the game and I understand that pain and tbh, when Ditzy is scum, it's painstakingly obvious for me for some obvious reason and I have absolutely no feels of scumminess this game coming from him.

So yeah, no dice on the Ditzy wagon, no matter how appealing it is to that little evil side of me.

Next I'm going to point out a little thing I just found amusing because I believe this has never happened before and I follow in my predecessor's steps as well with saying this but I, at the time of reading this post, had pretty much cookie-cutter reads:

Toastin' Dat Walrus (Gorf/Kuz Hydra) -Scum
-Masquerain- - Town. It seems like he's making mistakes (I feel as though several times he's wanted to go back and reread something), but he's being way too calm to be scum.
adumbrodeus -Town. There was no reason for him to jump on Kuz early game as scum, as what he jumped on was so meaningless that it could have easily been ignored.
Яagnarock- Null, Haven't been paying much attention to this guy
Dark Horse - Town
Kary- Town -like how he's asking questions: he's trying to get more information than what's present.
Swiss- Town
Blazer- Don't think this guy has posted yet
DtJ Glyphmoney- Slight town lean. The only thing I remember him doing was questioning Ditz, which I liked
Nabe-See Glyph
Red Ruy- Leaning town,*
Fynal-Haven't been paying that much attention to him
WashedLaundry- Inactive, it seems like it
frozenflame751- Null, has he even posted yet?
Pink Lemonade (July/Ranmaru Hydra)- Null. Will probably look into this more
Jdietz43- Scum

Will probably look into PL/Fynal/Soup more.*

I'd put it at null or scum tell (Somewhere in the middle) It's a terrible defense, as it doesn't defend himself except for "Pregame talk isn't right." Also, the bats metaphor makes it seem like he was just caught in pregame before he could do anything, making him seem like a victim, when in reality he was the primary reason people are suspecting him.

Got to say, really surprised me in a good way. I like these reads because they pretty much matched mine *'cept the part where you can switch Adumb and Ditzy reads around. So yeah, seeing DHtown>DHscum and haven't really found anything to have a problem with so far in the game. Tbh, this is a first for me to be agreeing with DH so I am gonna cherish this moment a bit.

Alright, so I don't have a lot to say here. Here's why:

-Kuz had to go. His argument was ****, he looked like scum, and he never attempted to flesh out his scumSwiss read despite sitting on it all day.
-Swiss is not scum based on Kuz's flip. Swiss' argument was right. Lynching him for being right is dumb and you're dumb for thinking about it.
-The Kuz v Swiss argument took up the whole thread. Worse yet, that was an argument that more or less revolved around a mechanic. You can't insinuate a damn thing about Swiss from it and Kuz's flip quite literally put us in no really specific direction. Ergo, back at Square 1
-Soup has it right to look at the wagon, though. Scum almost definitely was on it. Getting a lynch on a historically strong player and having him flip town like that almost certainly had to have some scum going "YEAH SURE I'LL TAKE THAT."

Now while I don't think Swiss is scum based off Kuz's flip and find Kary's case full of usual **** from Swiss and 20/20 hindsight, that flip onto Kary was awkward. Swiss flat-out said he had Kary as town early in the pre-game. He said nothing to the contrary throughout D1 unless I missed something huge. Suddenly, he came in D2, drops a vote on Kary, and then does not explain a damn thing. He says it's a legit vote, but then why? Why Kary? The guy who you said was obvtown just a day before? What changed?

vote: Swiss

This is the post I wanted to get to from WL because it just keeps bugging me the more I look at it because of the logic that is used in it. He spends more time in this post trying to debunk the Swiss suspicion in the first half of the post with his bullets and then the bolded part of the second paragraph just makes me continue to look at things differently. He never says that Swiss is scummy, he just says that he is awkward and seems to focus attention on the fact that Swiss voted Kary (don't have an answer to that because I didn't even get why he did that), but WL tried to bring up the fact that Swiss had Kary as obv-town early on in the game but never really tried to explain how changing reads was scummy, especially when Swiss was being attacked with a rather poorly constructed case on his slot and didn't really try to consider that PoV.

I mean, here's the deal, WL continued to push the fact that Swiss was not scummy for the entire Kuzi dilemma and explained multiple angles and yet he votes him, not for the other reasons people are getting at, but moreso the fact that he had a weird vote on Kary that could also have other reasons behind it. So I am not really caring for WL's slot this game based on his play this game because in reality it is lackluster because whenever I saw him post, it was never anything really new or relevant. Then when you combine it to posts like the one I quoted, WL is just looking scummy to me.

FoS: WashedLaundry

Moving on:

J would you agree how Kary handled Swiss is different from Blazer?

It's different but I don't really see anything scummy from either of those slots in terms of how they dealt with things. I mean I guess I can see where you are coming from in saying that Blazer had less substantiation to his Swiss flip but Blazer has really been without content besides his one wall he had in the game. Kary on the other hand tried to go into really big detail into Swiss and most of his points got muddled/some turned to fairly reaching points as to why he found Swiss scum. It feels to me more that Kary is clinging to his SwisScum read because he is following the logic of "Swiss was wrong on Kuzi, must be scum." and isn't really looking to extrapolate or go into his other reads more. However, both thought processes ring genuine to me so I don't see either slot scummy.

I'll take this time to go into Blazer more for Soup. I really am not getting BlazerScum vibes and it will probably be the only thing I agree on with Adumb this game so far. Blazer just screams n00b-town to me and July hit it on the head when she said, "Blazer saying he will be lurking actually screams n00b-town>n00b-scum" because that defeats the purpose of trying to hide and he is making it obvious that he would be lurking. It's counter-productive and doesn't make sense. Also I remember you bringing up a point on Blazer being his hesitancy is a scummy action? I don't really think so. I feel his hesitancy is more of a way for him to test the waters and the like and I have to say I did not like the way you handled the fact that he hadn't voted Swiss and it seemed you were trying to goad him into voting Swiss when he was just saying he was null and even clarified that he only had an FoS on the slot based on past events.

I like you this game, Soup, however, this Blazer thing with you is making me stop from putting you fully as town because I don't agree to it at all and is something you have clung to ever since he started into the game. Another point that I didn't really get towards your BlazerScum read is the way you just dropped it like it was nothing yesterDay and then claimed that you wanted to hammer and pretty much did a haphazard hammer in order to save yourself from the NK>Steal it from FF(which I chuckled at him dying). You seem to play the Hot N Cold game with the BlazerScum read based on how other people seem to be reacting to Blazer and it's weirding me out. Plus the flip to Ditzy when you have been so much strongly pushing Blazer makes me pause too because you never really fully explained why Ditzy besides "his intro into D2 was garb" which I can sort of see but how does it make it was than Blazer's in your PoV? If this Blazer thing was sorted, I'd be fine, but till then:

RR vs. Glyph on the other hand, I read it all, and sad to say nothing really stuck out to me because I could see Glyph's point on his little "trick" he executed but then I don't really see how that it is completely indicting of the fact that RR is scum because even as town, people don't like being called scum. No one likes being called scum and it's one of those ideas that could poise a better position on a slot but it didn't really do much for me in terms of figuring out RR who currently sits on a null for now. Glyph is a town-lean though for what he has posted because it gives me the vibe that he does feel strongly about RR being scum for what he feels he has found in the game but it didn't convince me of RR being scum but moreso of Glyph being town. So I gained something out of reading it at least haha.

Since I only have two more slots to really go into, I'll finish it but they don't really have much to them, there is PL who is a complete null to me and I am having the hardest time reading July who I believe has done the majority of posting. I find myself liking her posts but that's something I always let hinder me when reading her because regardless of our alignments, we agree with each other unless we are acussing each other. Her walls just leave me with an empty feeling after reading them because most of the time I just get a "well, now what?" vibe from them, especially with her Soup vote she did because it didn't really go anywhere and that's what is setting me off from July is she isn't getting into the fray and I don't like the position she poised herself into during the Toastin vs. Swiss thing. I want more from her, then I feel I will be able to fully tell what her head is concocting but for now, just a flat null.

Okay and finally one last thing, I'd probably wanna touch upon now that I am caught up fully is the fact that I don't really care for Fynal this game. Fynal has been literally non-existant and then when he came into the game, he tried to make a reaching case on FF based on the feeling that he thought FF was scummy for his very first intro post and then he kind of continued to sit on the issue of FF but not do anything else. Basically the thing I don't like about Fynal in a nutshell is the fact that I don't care for his pushes this game and I don't like how he isn't here. Want more from him.

So in the end I would be okay with Adumb or WL dying toDay.

Goodnight and probably won't be posting that much tommorrow. Got packing shenanigans and a party I'm going to so yeah.

P.S. Sorry for the long post/bunches of gifs, bored, late night, tumblr open, ya knoooow.

 

[#HBC | J]

So nothing really stuck out too too much in the rest of the posts throughout the day-toDay so I will not be going into that much detail but I want to highlight a couple of posts specifically.

This is sad because it's actually still true after that post hahaha.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@DH: Why do you assume it is an attack on Swiss when I preface it as "food for thought and discussion before I go".

I thought that you were saying "food for thought" so someone else could pick up your point and you wouldn't be receiving a lot of flak for it, as you weren't really pushing it.

Unvote

I'm starting to agree with J on adumb the more and more he posts

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[3] Jdietz43: Pink Lemonade / Nabe / Яagnarock
[3] J: WashedLaundry / adumbrodeus / Kary
[2] adumbrodeus: J / -Masquerain-
[1] Blazer: Red Ruy
[1] Red Ruy: DtJ Glyphmoney

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Яagnarock
[0] Dark Horse
[0] DtJ Glyphmoney
[0] Nabe
[0] WashedLaundry
[0] Fynal
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Kary

[4] Not Voting: Blazer / Fynal / Jdietz43 / Dark Horse

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch!
Deadline set for Saturday 30th June, Midnight GMT.
__

Fynal has been prodded

Krystedez has been contacted to replace Blazer. (If anyone knows any players willing to replace in, I would be very grateful as I've now run out of replacements!)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@DH: Is J town?

@J: Are you town?

@Joey: Please sell me on town J/Swiss so that I can stop worrying about that slot.

Right now I'm seeing way too much scum.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Right now I'm seeing way too much scum.

Explain this, and your questions.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I feel that Blazin has more noobscum than noobtown in him since I left, he has done no active work to clear himself nor contribute anything other than "that's ok I think" and "I'm not sure.

I don't feel like your reasoning makes him scum; please explain this for me.

I could see him as a lynch choice today to clear our heads.

I don't understand the choice of words here; what exactly do we ned to clear our heads about?

I need to re-read Glyph vs. RR. Didn't RR look hella scummy?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Explain this, and your questions.

Bottom line I don't know who to vote today. I could probably pool about 5 people I want dead, but I don't know which one I want gone first. It's only a problem because I don't imagine my pool of 5 people will all be scum

The questions should be pretty self-explanatory?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

A list of 5? Who?

What are you planning to get out of asking people if they are town?

 

[Dooms]

"right now I'm seeing way too much scum."

You had him at 60%.

Tell me about J scum then, because what you said earlier definitely wasn't indicating of anything scummy, and based on what you told me earlier, I'd literally say "Swiss has a huge ego. That's how he plays, and it doesn't indicate alignment in any way, shape, or form. Move on."

 

[#HBC | Kary]

A list of 5? Who?

What are you planning to get out of asking people if they are town?

WashedLaundry/RedRyu/Adumbrodeus/J/JDietz is who I'm feeling right now

And a response which might be telling one way or the other?
This is a pretty standard thing from me.

"right now I'm seeing way too much scum."

You had him at 60%.

Tell me about J scum then, because what you said earlier definitely wasn't indicating of anything scummy, and based on what you told me earlier, I'd literally say "Swiss has a huge ego. That's how he plays, and it doesn't indicate alignment in any way, shape, or form. Move on."

I'm saying that I feel like a lot of people are scummy, but no-one is particularly scummy, you dig? Maybe I should have said 'many'?

And say what?
I thought you had a town read on them; I'm saying I'm undecided. I've already talked about wanting to push Swiss for a read, and why I thought the way he pushed a Kuz lynch was suspicious... I don't see how you can be sure it doesn't indicate alignment?
And if it doesn't indicate alignment, how do you have a town read on Swiss?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

>Gets back from work
>Activity
>Goes to sleep
>More activity

Oh boy!

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yes.

10stus.

You really can't see the difference between Kary and Blazer? Not like Blazer and DH or Blazer and Ditz? Blazer and Kary?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

WashedLaundry/RedRyu/Adumbrodeus/J/JDietz is who I'm feeling right now

Where did these come from? You've been focusing mainly on Swiss/J for the day.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

@Washed: What exactly were/are you voting Swiss for if you had to sum it up in three sentences or less. (Is his vote on Kary the only reason, or is there more?) Why do you like Nabe?

Yes, it's because of his Kary vote. You don't backpedal on reads like that without some serious reason for it and he provided none before replacing out. J's still catching up, I guess? Still waiting on him to be caught up.

Nabe needs to post more but his posts were insightful and suggestive. He didn't hold anything back and he posted his thoughts clearly. Moreover, they followed a townie mindsight, trying to flesh out Ditz reads before pushing onto the wagon.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Because remember the many times I've pointed out that meta is pretty much the only thing that matters when differentiating town from scum?

So you're practically worthless at reading half this cast because you don't know their metas, right?

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Washed & Soup: Thoughts on Adumb's recent posts?

This is just ********. Like, this is some of the worst reasoning to call someone scum ever.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Where did these come from? You've been focusing mainly on Swiss/J for the day.

Reading the thread... comprende?
I don't out all of my reads straight away, especially when I'm not sure about them. If you want me to explain all of those reads then please ask me that instead. Most of them are low-level (i.e. gut) mistrust of the slot anyways; I'm sure I could show you posts I dislike and why but ehhh it's nothing ground-breaking anyways, and I'm hella tired.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Argh. I'll be back later.

 

[Dooms]

Okay @Washed. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't ******** for thinking that reasoning was stupid lol. Also, J implied that he finished catching up in his latest wall.

@Kary: I do. I thought you were just calling him SUPER scum, not saying that you viewed several people as scum, so I was wondering how he became SUPER scummy after being at 60%. Sorry about that xD.

J town is simply because his posts come off as townie to me. The two posts with tons of reads especially. The reasoning behind his reads/votes are very understandable, and I could see him making those decisions as town. (especially the Washed one. Going after Washed out of the blue seems odd for scum to do, since they can question it tons and it could very easily put them into the spotlight.)

Swiss town was because of the fact that I could see everything he was doing, and his play seemed REALLY townie to me because of that. The Walrus push as a whole was pretty obvious to me with how much Walrus was trying to frame 'em and how bad they looked because of it. It didn't come off as opportunistic in the least, either. Their play looked scummy, and they were very questionable in general. It's not the fact that Swiss OMGUS'd, it's the fact that Walrus was trying to get a player lynched because of what played out as fear, something I wouldn't see a townie do.

Swiss didn't do anything that seemed scummy to me, either. That's another reason xD.

About Swiss' and his ego indicating alignment for me. You have to note something before I go into this lol. I'm a bad player. If someone does something repeatedly as town, indy, mafia, and out of game repeatedly and non-stop, then I can't get a read from that alone. It's just how I am. Regardless of that, though, Swiss having an ego is... Swiss. Like... That's it. Swiss is Swiss. It's a complete and total null tell. He has a huge ego on skype, in games, in the social thread, in everything (and he can back it up, too). It's just Swiss. I don't have a town read on him because of his ego, because he has an ego in every game. It's just Swiss.

@Adumb: Reads on me, Kary, and Dietz?

Go into the Dark Horse read as well, please.

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: @Washed: J didn't imply that he finished reading... He flat out said it. You must not be at that post yet XD. Sorry haha.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Reading the thread... comprende?
I don't out all of my reads straight away, especially when I'm not sure about them. If you want me to explain all of those reads then please ask me that instead. Most of them are low-level (i.e. gut) mistrust of the slot anyways; I'm sure I could show you posts I dislike and why but ehhh it's nothing ground-breaking anyways, and I'm hella tired.

Still kind of interested.

Mind explaining some of your scum picks? Also, who would you put as your second scummiest of your scumpicks?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll be reading when sunlight isn't ****** my eyes.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

And then my whole damn post got eaten. GOD that is the worst ****ing feeling.

I'll retype the response to RR later. For now, its much more pressing that I respond to J's claim that town would be concerned when called scum as well. And he's absolutely right. They would be, but not at ALL in the same way.

Town is gunna see that post, and respond right away. Ask questions. Demand explanation. SOMETHING. Not just ignore the post until the next day. I absolutely cannot believe RR didn't see my posts, much less the back and forth between me and Swiss that happened BETWEEN his two posts. He chose to not reply. To go even further, as town after this moment you're gunna forget about it. You've got scum to catch, and some inactives random reads are of little concern.

RR ignored the post, because hell why not? He's got all night to worry about it and discuss it in private with his scummates, and a rushed response could spell doom for him. But he remembers it happening. Scum never forgets being called scum, because that **** is scary. I've been scum enough times to know that little heart attack when you see your name come up in a bad light, even if its coming from a bad slot and for no reason. He had to do something about it, but an active response could just gather more suspicion on his slot than he wanted. So.... he puts the idea out there. 'Did Glyph explain his reads at all, more so the DH one? Pretty sure he didn't.' SOOOO safe. If RR TRULY wanted an explanation of those reads, why the hell wouldn't he ASK? Because. it. was. too. risky.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Mostly @Dark Horse:

Adum/JDietz/J > RR/WL

I need to re-read to try and shore some of these up, hopefully I'll find time soonish.

Adum; I've not seen much town from and his pushes are ehhh... too thin.
JDietz; doesn't look that scummy but I feel like he's flailing too much.
J; obviously lingering suspicion from earlier and the... safe-ness of his entrance.

WL; something feels weird about his votes/pushes, can't put a finger on it. They don't sit right.
RR; seemed to be hard lurking and then when called out went to strong defence.

These points are off the top of my head... just trying to vocalise my gut reads basically.

@Dark Horse: could you give me your J read then, please?

 

[Jdietz43]

Vote: Adumb


That whole explanation revolving around meta was terrible. You can't just claim to have meta reads on people and say "I mean it" and expect to be taken seriously, give some evidence to support yourself with. Right now you're attacking J for literally no explained reason and are expecting us to take that seriously. (I don't know how long you've been gone from mafia... but this really doesn't cut it)


Kary, give out your full reads and why. You're dancing around the issue.

WashedLaundry/RedRyu/Adumbrodeus/J/JDietz is who I'm feeling right now

Why are each of these people where they are: if it's a gut read explain why you got that gut feeling instead of waving it away.



@Glyph: Would you be willing to lynch Adumb today.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm really hoping you just got ninja'd JDietz otherwise I swear to god I'm coming for your head.

I'M DANCING AROUND THE ISSUE?

I'm pretty confident you've been the biggest waste of space in this game so far and this latest hop onto Adum just REEKS of opportunism.

/RageKary

Oh and answer my damn questions to you

 

[Dooms]

Jdietz, what was your read on Adumb before you voted him?

 

[Jdietz43]

It was a ninja, but the one sentence answers you've given aren't elaborate, so the point still stands.

I apologize my family has relationships, why the sudden rage?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

J is town. I like the way he's looking down unorthodox avenues, like WL (I think he was the first person to suspect him)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Reading and audio editing intermittently but I'll have something out tonight.

 

[Jdietz43]

Jdietz, what was your read on Adumb before you voted him?

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at the beginning of the day because of secrety secrets, but he continued to cite no evidence in his pushing.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@JD: Tired. Seriously, please answer those questions. And I disagree.

@DH: Cheers, even if your answer is basically Joey's

See you after some sleep

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Eh, that #750 makes me think Glyph town more.

he is more sure of his read and not afraid to push it like he is.

Glyph take your time to respond.

Still working on reread atm.